Robin Patch Notes - 1.1.0 - AND THEN THERE WAS BUFFS

[LochTessMonster]

Sakurai, Oh my god thank you Sakurai

 

[XXII FOOL]

With the arcthunder buff, I'm trying really, really hard to make arcthunder to (sh) arcfire to usmash/uair/fair/etc. a thing. Need to play around more later.

Have you tried arcfire out of down throw --> arcthunder?

 

[Nyrélhos]

Tested fire jab on Mario on the edge of Battlefield, new fire jab kills at 115, old kills at 123.

The New was test on Wii U and the old was test on 3DS

 

[XXII FOOL]

Tested fire jab on Mario on the edge of Battlefield, new fire jab kills at 115, old kills at 123.

The New was test on Wii U and the old was test on 3DS

Blast zone differences between 3ds and Wii U, most likely.

 

[Nyrélhos]

Are these differences also on Final Destination ? Because it's the same.

 

[XXII FOOL]

Are these differences also on Final Destination ? Because it's the same.

It's not the stage so much as the blast zones being slightly farther on ds and therefore requiring more percentage to kill.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I want to raise a possibility for people to experiment with. It's clearly not a combo but it seems like a possible mix-up... can we get d-throw -> Nosferatu going? I have come very close to landing it on several opponents tonight and wondering if I'm just slightly off on something. If we can get it going, a semi-reliable way to land our self-heal move would be nice.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Nosferatu is a grab, so Dthrow -> Nos violates the one second regrab window rule.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Which would explain it. Thank you.

Would dthrow -> Jab 1 -> Nos have any real chance of working? D-throw -> Arcthunder would, I'm sure.

 

[Kienamaru]

I have a good background in brawl modding so I can read the code to some degree, here's the changes that are on Dantarion's mastercore. Just giving general stuff, nothing specific until I get more time.

Jab 2: More KB
Up Smash: larger hitboxes, it's positioned slightly lower too
fair got damage buffs
Up throw has more kb/damage? can't tell
downthrow has an increase and a decrease in a value. The decrease is a lot. I think the increase is Knock back growth and decrease is base kb

You guys can choose to believe me or not, but I implore you guys to check out my background in brawl coding both on Smashboards and KCMM.

He's not lying. About his Brawl modding background. We've worked on some things together. I didn't know he was a member here to be honest. Also, this is just me subscribing to the thread

 

[AGreatProcrastinator]

With the arcthunder buff, I'm trying really, really hard to make arcthunder to (sh) arcfire to usmash/uair/fair/etc. a thing. Need to play around more later.

It seems to be possible, but a bit tricky. You have to be the right distance away and aim arcfire so that the opponent flies into it after being launched by arcthunder. Looks like a true combo, but training mode doesn't register it so i dunno.

 

[The_Cardinal]

Have you tried arcfire out of down throw --> arcthunder?

No, but I did experiment with dthrow arcfire for a little bit but that's it. Probably just di dependent at best.

I can pull off arcthunder to arcfire easily enough in training mode but I want to test it in a real match before saying anything.

 

[•Col•]

I want to raise a possibility for people to experiment with. It's clearly not a combo but it seems like a possible mix-up... can we get d-throw -> Nosferatu going? I have come very close to landing it on several opponents tonight and wondering if I'm just slightly off on something. If we can get it going, a semi-reliable way to land our self-heal move would be nice.

Arcthunder makes Nosferatu super reliable now.

If you land an Arcthunder, as long as you're less than 1/2 of Final Destination away from them you have enough time to run up and Nosferatu them It's especially nice because even if they shield the Arcthunder, you still grab them with the Nosferatu.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Holy ****, I can actually effectively Arcthunder > Arcfire and U-Smash on heavies now! This patch is awesome! Robin can now combo!

Edit: I can confirm Arcthunder's recovery has shortened. The stun doesn't seem to have changed; possibly placebo.

 

[AGreatProcrastinator]

This arcthunder buff is seriously making me want to pick up Robin again. Depending on your distance you can combo it into anything. Anything.

 

[Raziek]

Just to check your wording, did you mean 'decreased' on recovery time, if follow-ups are easier?

Sorry, yes, that is what I meant.

 

[Casey Chase]

Look at these buffs. JUST LOOK AT THESE BUFFS.

The scales have been tipped.

 

[Emerlad_Element]

Robin is only my third character so I apologize if this seems out of place but no one has mentioned this yet. At very low percents, D-Throw to Arcfire is a very fun option. I haven't seen anyone post that yet so I just wanted to drop that there

 

[False Sense]

I want to raise a possibility for people to experiment with. It's clearly not a combo but it seems like a possible mix-up... can we get d-throw -> Nosferatu going? I have come very close to landing it on several opponents tonight and wondering if I'm just slightly off on something. If we can get it going, a semi-reliable way to land our self-heal move would be nice.

No, but D-Throw -> Arcthunder can set up an easy Nosferatu at lower percents.

 

[TheBlueBlur]

The buffs were minimum... at least reduce the lag from aereals, NOPE... Sakurai didn't...
Ornamental buffs...

 

[Ignoth]

While having D-throw followups/kill confirms is great (like, REALLY great). I think the real difference maker in the big picture is going to be the arcthunder/elthunder buffs.

Robin already had a decent advantage state. It's the tiny buffs to our lackluster neutral that will really make a difference.

 

[XXII FOOL]

Down throw --> arcthunder --> arcfire for some reason lands only on falcon (probably his tall hitbox), but it hits him at the top of his hitbox and he immediately falls out and right in front of you. You can then regrab them or nosferatu them. However, if you wait and they stand there for about a second the last hit of arcfire launches them right in front of you, which is pretty cool since it gives you free followups (launches them into free aerials, and you can also land an uptilt before they get launched) and some neat mindgames where you can catch people off guard and if they hold shield to avoid the last hit you can nosferatu / regrab. Pretty lame that it's character specific.

Down throw to arcthunder to SH arcfire into upsmash works, 53%. Good stuff.

Down throw into arcthunder also gives you guaranteed aerial followups, tilts, jab as well as upsmash in place for some nice, easy damage.

 

[False Sense]

The buffs were minimum... at least reduce the lag from aereals, NOPE... Sakurai didn't...
Ornamental buffs...

I don't know about you, but I'd say having Down-Throw combos is a pretty significant buff.

 

[XXII FOOL]

Robin is only my third character so I apologize if this seems out of place but no one has mentioned this yet. At very low percents, D-Throw to Arcfire is a very fun option. I haven't seen anyone post that yet so I just wanted to drop that there

Arcfire is particularly easy to avoid out of downthrow (startup...), but landing it gives you upsmash / aerials... I can see it working at higher percents where down throw knocks them higher up, and closer to where arcfire spawns (above your head).

 

[PolkaGnome]

I'm really loving the changes to Robin's D-throw. The only thing I don't like about it is having to fight my muscle memory the whole time... Ah well, time and practice will solve that.

 

[drogoth232]

I don't know about you, but I'd say having Down-Throw combos is a pretty significant buff.

Throw combos in general are pretty great.
I'll be keeping an eye out for if and when dantarion puts out the mastercore information for the projectiles.

Needless to say, but...
[SCALE TIPPING INTENSIFIES]

 

[Raziek]

The buffs were minimum... at least reduce the lag from aereals, NOPE... Sakurai didn't...
Ornamental buffs...

Lol.

How could you possibly think our aerials need LESS lag?

We only take 2/4 frames on soft/hard landing because of autocancels. It's literally godlike.

 

[GammaFoxTBG]

I'd like to emphasize the importance of Arcthunder -> Nosferatu.

This combo by itself deals 25% damage. The fact that it can potentially be combo'd into by down throw for an extra 6% benefits this even more. But when you realize that suddenly Nosferatu can be landed easily now, the scales have been heavily tipped in our favour. Imagine the following scenario: You're in a match where you've just taken your opponent's stock; you've been beaten up a bit, left at 100%. While your opponent respawns, you charge up to Arcthunder. If you manage to land the sacred combo, you have very seriously tipped the scales. Based on the quick math, your opponent would be put at 25%, meanwhile you have recovered 40%. That means you just went from a damage difference of 100 down to 35. An enormous leap that gives a huge advantage when you get that first kill and can be furthered if you can land more Nosferatus.

TIP.
DEM.
SCALES.

 

[Silxer]

These are some lovely changes, so happy that Robin finally having a combo throw now.

There's going to be many more combo possibilities for Robin now because of this!

 

[Superfiremario]

As a Robin main, these buffs make me happy.

The scales have been tipped in our favour.

... I'm sorry, I had to.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

The scales have been tipped in our favour.

... I'm sorry, I had to.

You and everyone else in this thread.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

You and everyone else in this thread because we're happy our character actually functions correctly now!

I haven't been using Robin to the fullest yet since I'm still struggling with muscle memory (My mind as Robin always says "B-throw them for the most damage" off grabs, I'm not used to d-throw comboing), but wow. This honestly does a lot to improve my opinion of and satisfaction with Robin. There might be a few small things I'd ask for otherwise, but this is a fun character now.

 

[XXII FOOL]

Lol.

How could you possibly think our aerials need LESS lag?

We only take 2/4 frames on soft/hard landing because of autocancels. It's literally godlike.

And being able to SH air dodge into charging neutral b and incur no landing lag? Insane. Especially since you can immediately roll when you hit the ground. Lag really isn't an issue.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

So is Speed Thunder officially out of style now? Given the endlag buffs on vanilla Thunder variants and vanilla Arcthunder suddenly being Robin's Great Equalizer. I'll be pleased if so, I missed having actual kill potential with neutral B. And vanilla Thoron is sooo much scarier omg.

 

[Nyrélhos]

I'd like to emphasize the importance of Arcthunder -> Nosferatu.

This combo by itself deals 25% damage. The fact that it can potentially be combo'd into by down throw for an extra 6% benefits this even more. But when you realize that suddenly Nosferatu can be landed easily now, the scales have been heavily tipped in our favour. Imagine the following scenario: You're in a match where you've just taken your opponent's stock; you've been beaten up a bit, left at 100%. While your opponent respawns, you charge up to Arcthunder. If you manage to land the sacred combo, you have very seriously tipped the scales. Based on the quick math, your opponent would be put at 25%, meanwhile you have recovered 40%. That means you just went from a damage difference of 100 down to 35. An enormous leap that gives a huge advantage when you get that first kill and can be furthered if you can land more Nosferatus.

TIP.
DEM.
SCALES.

I think Nosferatu doesn't heal that much if the opponent mashes the buttons. But yeah, I see what you mean, it's still awesome.

EDIT : I don't think Thunder can replace Speed Thunder. Speed Thunder is mainly used for the speed and range of thunder projectile itself, and regular Thunder cannot replace that.

 

[Nah]

Btw, do we know what exactly it was that was changed about Arcthunder that makes it easier to combo with now?

So is Speed Thunder officially out of style now? Given the endlag buffs on vanilla Thunder variants and vanilla Arcthunder suddenly being Robin's Great Equalizer. I'll be pleased if so, I missed having actual kill potential with neutral B. And vanilla Thoron is sooo much scarier omg.

Not really. The increased range and speed of Speed Thunder spells still makes it very much worth using. Though Speed Thoron is inferior to regular Thoron imo.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Btw, do we know what exactly it was that was changed about Arcthunder that makes it easier to combo with now?

The endlag was simply decreased, I believe, so that we have more time to leisurely jog over and whack 'em with stuff. I think we still need to land it point-blank to get all of the potential follow-ups though. There are just more options for us in either scenario now.

EDIT: We got some frame data info in the patch thread, copy-pasting here:

Robin – Neutral B endlag reduced (more significant reduction on heavier charges, but Thoron's is unchanged. Custom Neutral Bs have the same change, with Thoron being unaffected. Dthrow endlag significantly reduced.

So I guess Speed Thunder is going to remain relevant as a harassment tool. Still, I'd say if we don't absolutely have to have a rapid charge in a given matchup, we should probably be seriously thinking about employing vanilla Thunder in light of the sheer reward we are supposedly getting off of Arcthunder now.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Speaking as a main with throw combos:

Have any of you guys tried looking into footstool stuff out of Dthrow? If its super low I'd imagine there is a percent range where it could land, and then hit them with Dair right afterwards during their footstool bounce off of the stage floor (like how Ike can). Follow ups after that Dair might be possible as well. When Ike does it at low percents, he can wrack up some 40+% damage.

I can't look into it myself, I don't have the patch yet.

EDIT: or foostool out of Arcthunder maybe, follow that one up with the dair and see if there are any combos that can happen after?

 

[Raziek]

Speaking as a main with throw combos:

Have any of you guys tried looking into footstool stuff out of Dthrow? If its super low I'd imagine there is a percent range where it could land, and then hit them with Dair right afterwards during their footstool bounce off of the stage floor (like how Ike can). Follow ups after that Dair might be possible as well. When Ike does it at low percents, he can wrack up some 40+% damage.

I can't look into it myself, I don't have the patch yet.

EDIT: or foostool out of Arcthunder maybe, follow that one up with the dair and see if there are any combos that can happen after?

Our Dair is complete ass and doesn't auto-cancel. Might be worth looking into, but I wouldn't expect anything revolutionary.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Footstool is guaranteed out of pointblank Arcthunder at any percent so long as we fire the bolt from the ground. We can't force a getup though, unless we Z-drop a tome at low percents. Without the tome, it's just reading and prediction to where they'll go.