Robin Patch Notes - 1.1.0 - AND THEN THERE WAS BUFFS

[sunfallSeraph]

If anyone is able to, could I see a few gifs or videos of default and Gliding El Wind's new mobility? I don't own the game yet unfortunately.. :[

I can't provide video, but I can go ahead and say that the difference in horizontal control isn't huge. I tested default's out on Yoshi's Island Omega on 3DS by using the lines on the stage as markers and using Elwind from the edge. The difference between holding the control stick left only after inputting Up B and doing a diagonal left/up on the stick while inputting Up B was probably 2-3 Robin-lengths. It was definitely noticeable, but I didn't get the sense that it was gonna make much of a difference to our recovery since recovering horizontally flush to the ledge is generally a lot riskier than recovering from below it. I'd be interested to see if this change makes Gliding Elwind a more compelling choice. It would be nice to have another viable recovery option since our recovery is so linear and predictable.

 

[-Xeroskia.]

I can't provide video, but I can go ahead and say that the difference in horizontal control isn't huge. I tested default's out on Yoshi's Island Omega on 3DS by using the lines on the stage as markers and using Elwind from the edge. The difference between holding the control stick left only after inputting Up B and doing a diagonal left/up on the stick while inputting Up B was probably 2-3 Robin-lengths. It was definitely noticeable, but I didn't get the sense that it was gonna make much of a difference to our recovery since recovering horizontally flush to the ledge is generally a lot riskier than recovering from below it. I'd be interested to see if this change makes Gliding Elwind a more compelling choice. It would be nice to have another viable recovery option since our recovery is so linear and predictable.

I agree, and I suspected it wouldn't be direct increase in recovery length of course. But it was a change to air control, so I'd expect there to be a more noticeable increase in your ability to "bob 'n weave", or move back and worth while recovering or between El Wind blades.

It's asking a lot, and best case scenario I'm hoping someone who has (or can record) footage of El Wind pre-patch could compare it to post-patch El Wind in video/gif form, but I'd appreciate any visual representation, atm.

 

[PK Gaming]

Is down throw > jab at low % not a true combo? Opponents (and CPU alike) seem to jump out from time to time.

 

[XXII FOOL]

Is down throw > jab at low % not a true combo? Opponents (and CPU alike) seem to jump out from time to time.

Nope. Most characters can jump/nair out of down throw at low %. It's a shame, but you have to get really creative with down throw followups (read and punish jumpouts with uair, SH'd arcfire/arcthunder, etc.) to dissuade them from jumping out every single time.

 

[ksizl4life]

Hey guys, ksizzle of VitaminZK here. We've created a patch notes video for Robin so we hope you enjoy! if you know theres something we missed, please let me know and I'll add some parts to a miscellaneous video we'll make at the end of the series! Thanks!

 

[Raziek]

Hey guys, ksizzle of VitaminZK here. We've created a patch notes video for Robin so we hope you enjoy! if you know theres something we missed, please let me know and I'll add some parts to a miscellaneous video we'll make at the end of the series! Thanks!

Nope, that about covers it. You did miss a few minor things on the custom variants, though. (Check OP)

You lose points for using Marth's Fates theme and not Robin's, though.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Thank you for the video, Ksizzle!

 

[Funkermonster]

You guys are making me want to play this character again (though I wouldn't exactly call this a good thing in my case), which is funny considering how I was originally gonna second Robin when the game came out. Looks like Sakurai has treated some of my favorite characters (except Sonic, sadly) a bit more nicely this time around.

My main, , just got buffed
My original main, buffed
buffed
buffed
buffed
buffed (she probably still sucks tho)

Sweet Christmas! I probably shouldn't be doing this, but when I get the time to I'm gonna try out the new Robin and see if I find him main-worthy now (was acually already planning to for doubles lol). Its a bad idea, but I think it's more than likely worth it

 

[shane3x]

I know Down-Throw into jabs/tilts works on pretty much everyone for early percents and later on at higher percents for most characters youll be able to pretty much get up air most of the time.

What I seem to be having issues with is the mid range after jabs don't work. Is there suggested follow ups based weight and % since sometimes I find characters being able to air dodge in the mid range %.

https://youtu.be/4kRfJxb839g?t=3m17s

I'm thinking I probably should have done maybe like a neutral air or something here since I dont think even with new up smash hitbox size that would of hit.

https://youtu.be/4kRfJxb839g?t=4m

I think maybe I didnt do the up air quick enough here

 

[Suiko]

I know Down-Throw into jabs/tilts works on pretty much everyone for early percents and later on at higher percents for most characters youll be able to pretty much get up air most of the time.

What I seem to be having issues with is the mid range after jabs don't work. Is there suggested follow ups based weight and % since sometimes I find characters being able to air dodge in the mid range %.

https://youtu.be/4kRfJxb839g?t=3m17s

I'm thinking I probably should have done maybe like a neutral air or something here since I dont think even with new up smash hitbox size that would of hit.

https://youtu.be/4kRfJxb839g?t=4m

I think maybe I didnt do the up air quick enough here

I think that the percent your opponent was at was slightly too low for a true dthrow uair combo, and rage may have affected it.

 

[Master Morrison]

I honestly don't think Robin's new down throw is that great
Mostly because most opponents can react out of it
Most can jump and nair like someone said before meaning that Robin will have to decide whether to react to the nair or chase in the air
I tried fighting my brother who uses wii fit and he was able to up air me out of down throw at 0% before I could jab him and that's sad
Meaning characters with fast Nairs could get us before we can do anything
Like pacman nair and crap like that
But I will say that I do love the other buffs they gave him though like Levin fair
Man I've never killed so early with it
It's a get nice change of pace now
Now if only we got as much hit stun in out down throw like luigi then I'd be happy

 

[ARGHETH]

Yeah, at 0% it'll do that. But put on a little damage, and it starts working. Hell, Nairo checkmated False (several times? I didn't watch the actual match), and Raziek has combo'd it several times in a tournament. You can't just start pressing buttons off it, you need to think tactically.

 

[Blakexd9]

If you can't get the uair to connect at kill percents, you are too slow. It requires proper buffering

 

[Project_B]

I haven't had a chance to test yet on my own (not having access to a Wii U), but does anyone know is down throw > turnaround back air is a thing around mid percents? I know it probably wouldn't be true but if anyone can give more information on it, that would be great!

 

[Raziek]

I haven't had a chance to test yet on my own (not having access to a Wii U), but does anyone know is down throw > turnaround back air is a thing around mid percents? I know it probably wouldn't be true but if anyone can give more information on it, that would be great!

I would say it's unlikely. Uair doesn't work until 90ish and the frame data is basically identical (Bair is like 1f faster), so they'd be bouncing too high by that point. Maybe on like, Falcon or something?

 

[Project_B]

Well, it would probably only work on fastfallers if it will work at all. Once I can do more lab work then I can figure it out, but thanks for the heads up!

 

[Suiko]

I'm having a really hard time landing the checkmate combo, but I know it works (done it in training). Should I just train more on the timing or is there something I'm missing?

Yeah, at 0% it'll do that. But put on a little damage, and it starts working. Hell, Nairo checkmated False (several times? I didn't watch the actual match), and Raziek has combo'd it several times in a tournament. You can't just start pressing buttons off it, you need to think tactically.

Can somebody link the video in which Nairo checkmates False?

 

[Pegasus Knight]

@ S Suiko : I'll leave a more specific explanation to better players, but it should be noted the combo is percentage-specific and may well be character-specific to boot. Try fishing for it around, say, 90%ish?

 

[Suiko]

Wait nevermind- I found it. Apparently the person who posted the video was drunk at the time and confused Robin with Lucina.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yugOsgEviY

@ S Suiko : I'll leave a more specific explanation to better players, but it should be noted the combo is percentage-specific and may well be character-specific to boot. Try fishing for it around, say, 90%ish?

Does rage make it harder/easier/have no effect on the combo?

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Varies by percentage and character. Rage is broadly 'more knockback than normal', so it might enable the combo at earlier percents, 'disable' the combo at percents you'd normally expect it to work on, etc. I could not give you a perfect, easy answer for this question.

 

[Suiko]

Varies by percentage and character. Rage is broadly 'more knockback than normal', so it might enable the combo at earlier percents, 'disable' the combo at percents you'd normally expect it to work on, etc. I could not give you a perfect, easy answer for this question.

That definitely helped explain it on a broader scale, thanks!

Also, now that I'm looking at Nairo's Robin vs False it looks like Fair into Fair is now a combo... is this true?

 

[The_Cardinal]

That definitely helped explain it on a broader scale, thanks!

Also, now that I'm looking at Nairo's Robin vs False it looks like Fair into Fair is now a combo... is this true?

Not really, it was possible pre-patch also at lower percents. I mean, maybe the added damage to fair now adds a bit of extra hitstun to make it more likely but it was always possible before.

 

[Raziek]

Just for clarification, Fair to Fair has been guaranteed a lot of the time pre-patch.

So while it is true, it isn't new.

 

[XXII FOOL]

I don't think anyone has checked this yet, does the kirby version of elthunder and arcthunder have buffed damage and reduced endlag too?

 

[Suiko]

Just for clarification, Fair to Fair has been guaranteed a lot of the time pre-patch.

So while it is true, it isn't new.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Centicerise]

Wind Jab Ender: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 17 -> 13.

Fire Jab Ender: Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 11 -> 8.

Dash Attack: Self shieldlag reduced by 1 frame, 9 -> 8. (Matches opponent's shieldlag)

D-air (Levin): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 19 -> 15 (opponent shieldlag is 8 frames so it had a hitlag modifier on top of the default one electric attacks get)

His other Levin attacks were not changed.

Quoted from lordwilliam in the 1.10 community patch notes thread.

 

[AC NuBurs]

What exactly is shield lag? Does this mean Wind Jab and such are safer on shield?

 

[Raziek]

What exactly is shield lag? Does this mean Wind Jab and such are safer on shield?

Shield lag is the amount of lag the attacker (us) suffers when hitting a shield with an attack. This is very apparently when you hit a shield with Levin Fair vs. whiffing one in open space.

When an attack connects with a shield, both the attacker and the defender must wait a certain amount of frames before they can act (shield lag and shield stun, respectively).

In this case, as the shield lag was reduced, but the shield stun was not, this means that all of those moves have become that much safer on shield.

 

[AC NuBurs]

Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying. Man, they really liked robin this patch lol

 

[Moydow]

Man, they really liked robin this patch lol

Actually, this was a global engine change, so several characters other than Robin benefit from this - the main ones being Ryu and Marth (but not Lucina). Robin actually doesn't benefit from this as much as s/he could have done, since the change doesn't affect electric-element moves.