ROB Official Match-up Re-discussion #2: Olimar

[stingers]

now add 30% to all those because of DI...lol

 

[_clinton]

Well...actually Ness' Bthrow sends you at a 45 degree angle...

So at the most 130% may be the magic number for ROB IMO for when I'll do it at center stage...not 100% sure though

Don't know about the others though...and something that sends you up more vertically is a bit different as well...

 

[Mr.E]

EDIT: also... Mr.E rob's fair isn't that fast if you compare his air-speed and falling speed and calc when the only time he can use it. Also if you do it out of upB your momentum is very linear - you're not going to be un-predictable that way

Well I was just referring to its seven-frame frame speed, which is too quick to air dodge or whistle cancel on reaction. Even BAir is barely slow enough to react against and most people wouldn't be able to do it unless they were specifically looking for it... which opens them up to the faster FAir.

ROB isn't going to be chasing Olimar with Up-B because he doesn't have to venture very far off the stage to gimp Olimar. Shoot projectiles from the stage to maybe gimp Olimar that way (charged laser or almost any gyro is a definite gimp), else jump and fall with him once he's closer to the edge. Both Olimar and ROB are pretty floaty, so if they're both falling together ROB has a rather large window of opportunity to smack him away. Then, if Olimars commit to a Whistle Cancel or Air Dodge too early, ROB punishes the end lag and Olimar dies. If Olimar wasn't already in the process of using one of his two "evasive" methods as ROB is starting FAir, it's not gonna come out fast enough and Olimar dies. Even if Olimar times his "evasion" just right, there's still a small chance ROB gets him on the second swing and wins anyway.

There is one other, thus far unmentioned option, that of Olimar putting on aerial in ROB's face. Too bad ROB controls the spacing, since he has more freedom to move back and forth (Olimar is recovering and must maintain an overall path toward the stage), so he's still at the advantage. And if they trade hits, Olimar is in no better a position than he was before.

ROB can also stuff a retracting ledge tether by Z-dropping or downward throwing his Gyro over the edge, if he can get his Gyro in-hand.

 

[Fino]

bairing into someone is really situational...definitely not what i was talking about

i meant hitting you with the jet...and robs bair pushes him forward you know right? olimar just moving through the air normally will not be able to nair a ROB who bairs away...its just not possible dude.

a move that comes out on 11 and ends on 47... I wish I knew how many frames it lasted for =-/ on sight though, you're looking at a move that has near 30 frames off cool down lag, and then assume you buffer (anything) else add the start up time for that. Olimar will definitely catch-up by that time maybe at perfect spacing a nair might not catch it, but a fair would definitely.

Also, Mr. E- the reaction time for power shielding is 5 frames.... people power shield all the time. 7 frames isn't that much =-/


~Fino

 

[stingers]

if robs bair didnt push him away...then you could probably punish with a nair...but its like the turtle vs. the hare...you're just not moving fast enough through the air to catch us..frame data doesn't really show that...lol

i mean if you whistle our bair then use your double jump i'm sure you could fair or something...but you won't...lol

 

[Mr.E]

Also, Mr. E- the reaction time for power shielding is 5 frames.... people power shield all the time. 7 frames isn't that much =-/

Most powershielding occurs against projectiles. It's obviously easy to powershield most projectiles as it takes time to cover the distance between the shooter and defender in addition to the startup frames of the attack that initiated the projectile, enough time to make reaction possible. Most people can't react to something quicker than 12 frames and it's just physically impossible for anyone to react quicker than 9-10 frames at best.

 

[Llumys]

Eep.

<_<;

This thread exploded.

Anyway,

I can't really add much more to what everyone said. I'm not experienced in this match-up, but Fino and Weruop pretty much summed it up. I'm not being biased right now, but from everything I've seen and experienced, I have to agree with my fellow Olimar mains.

R.O.B. won't gimp Olimar. R.O.B. will get juggled.

... etc. <_<;

Also, Mr.E, you're forgetting M2K. M2K can react quicker than 9 frames. (:

If I'm not mistaken, R.O.B.'s bair and nair have pretty slow start-ups. In that time, Olimar can easily whistle and punish. Fair's somewhat obvious, and uair won't gimp. You won't be able to dair Olimar, 'cause he'll **** you from beneath. Having your gyro off-stage could add a lot of mix-ups, but I still don't think R.O.B. has anywhere near the gimping potential of Marth and Meta Knight.

As said before, R.O.B.'s a big character, and he well be juggled. When we throw you and you end up being above us, there's no way you're not going to get punished.

Here's a few examples...

60%

We dthrow. We always follow your DI.

You jump. We jump into uair.
You jump and air dodge. We double jump and delay the uair.
You air dodge. We jump and delay the uair.
You do an aerial. We jump and uair before your hitbox comes out, otherwise we out-range you.

?_?

We out-camp you.

I'm not sure about this, but what happens when a gyro hits a Pikmin that can survive the hit? Does the gyro stop, or does it go through them?

I believe the gyro stops.

After that, we can pick up, and completely out-camp you. Lasers are easily punishable, and the fact that you can't laser continuously means that you're gonna have to approach. :S

~.~

Uhm.

The kill percentages were given, and there's not much more to be said...

Your fair is predictable. :D

.-.

 

[Tin Man]

look's like I cam in a bit late, most of everything has been said

The gyro does stop when it hits a pikmin that can survive the hit, and Olimar does outcamp rob, but if olimar is to far from rob then rob outcamps olimar

 

[TheMike]

look's like I cam in a bit late, most of everything has been said

This. I'll still believe in 55:45 for Oli...

 

[Tin Man]

Definately in Oli's favor (don't have to say much, its been said)

 

[Mr.E]

Please, the Falco matchup is roughly even (though heavily stage-dependent) and he's tougher to stay inside against and tougher to kill-edgeguard than Olimar. :embarrass

 

[Tin Man]

Please, the Falco matchup is roughly even (though heavily stage-dependent) and he's tougher to stay inside against and tougher to kill-edgeguard than Olimar. :embarrass

Olimar is just that good at medium range.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Oh sorry, just saw this matchup discussion >.> I'll read through it and post my input in a bit.

 

[6Mizu]

Thank the lord.Olimar was what i was gonna ask for too.
My friend,RocketPSIence,recently pick up olimar and i barely beat him.
He picked up oli bout 3 weeks back.
I LEARNED 3 VERY IMPORTANT THINGS ROB GET *****,AND I MEAN *****,ON LUIGI'S MANSION AND BF.ALSO DONT LET OLIMAR STAY STATIONARY ,because ge out camps the crap out of rob.....so Glide toss to grab.
Also this is his grab data that RocketPSIence informed me about.
Grab
Grabs on: 11
Hit box ends on: 25
Ends on: 29

This is Oli's grab data... It has 14 frames of grab, a spot dodge has a about 25 frames in it, however the last six you're not invincible, so upon human reaction which is about 10-15 frames I can send out a Pikmin and and it's grab box doesn't grab until 21-26 and it has a long grab time. If you try to side step it sometimes (assuming you're predicting), if you side step 5 frame before I grab, you'll still get grabbed... that's why I was able to punish your sidestep with Olimar... (abuse his lack of grab armor)

 

[TheMike]

Thank the lord.Olimar was what i was gonna ask for too.

Tell me want you would like to discuss posting here your opnion.

Grabs on: 11
Hit box ends on: 25
Ends on: 29

Nice information there

ROB GET *****,AND I MEAN *****,ON LUIGI'S MANSION AND BF

Do you mean that he gets ***** on those stages or on the MU in General? If it's the second option... well, Oli has the advantage, but it's not so big for being *****.



About stages, is Frigate the best option or can we have some better ones?

 

[Tin Man]

Rainbow cruise is good, avoid halberd, delfino is good maybe???

 

[stingers]

cruise and frigate are your best two stages...if they ban one, go to the other. if they don't ban either, then pick your favorite

 

[TheMike]

So RC is as good as Frigate? And no, Delfino may be good, but not as good as Frigate and RC IMO

 

[6Mizu]

Mike i meant on those stages.
also.... im not sure but i think Norfair's good to try it.

 

[6Mizu]

Eep.


R.O.B. won't gimp Olimar. R.O.B. will get juggled.



.-.

this is very true! (also evreyone that hasnt please read what i wrote bout oli's grab data)

 

[TheMike]

Oh no, Norfair has many ledges. If it isn't very easy to gimp Oli, imagine with more ledges?

 

[6Mizu]

Oh no, Norfair has many ledges. If it isn't very easy to gimp Oli, imagine with more ledges?

This is a very good point but its pretty hard to gimp him already. I think it's pretty hard for him to camp on this stage; the reason I sat this is I myself have try this stage against oli. Since it's so big and also because Rob can safe move away if OLIVEmar get to close.
Also the stage eats up his pikman so try to get him in to lava.
But anyway this isn't a must pick counterpick. Like said earlier its frigate, RC, or Lylat.

*quick question: Whats the match up ratio for oli v Rob?????

 

[TheMike]

Oli 55/50:45/50 ROB

I'll post more about Norfair, now I'll watch MJ's This is It LOL.

 

[6Mizu]

ummmm...i think it should be 55:45 oli's favor (plz no flame war bout <<<<that).
Do you really live in Brazil?!?!?!?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

FLAME!!!

No way that it's 55:45 Oli's favor, you can gimp him easily. Sure he may have whistle, but he can't use an aerial or anything to stop you from edge-hogging while in the whistle. You penetrate an area that's really hard for him to cover by just using your retreating f-air. Sure he may be able to camp, but you guys rely way too much on camping, just practice APPROACHING and you should take this MU. I would like to see why you guys think this MU is bad. Seriously Mizu, just because I play Olimar doesn't mean you can JOHN at every little thing that has to do with Olimar. Jeeze, you John even on your ROB boards.

45:55 - 40:60 ROB's favor

 

[6Mizu]

Ummm...i said no ****ing flames
also how is saying that I think the match up should be 55:45 oli's fav. a "John" I think you need to learn the meaning of "John".
Also if I John so much someone on the Rob boards obvisouly would say so.
To sum this up stating an opinion is NOT a f****** john!

*dont start a flame war rPSI...if u really want to start one take this to our Social Thread.
NO ONE FLAME UNDER THIS POST BOUT THE LAST FEW THINGS SAID! (change subject)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

You only said please, and I gave my reason.

Edit: 6Mizu has no idea what a flame war is, it involves NOT giving a reason . Also the flame was a joke because I gave a reason, seriously 6Mizu takes things way to seriously

 

[6Mizu]

alright what ever forget about it.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Yikes, Norfair would be pretty scary against an oli, not something I would CP when Frigate, Cruise (at the risk of getting character CP'ed to MK lol) and even FD are available. Olimar's not going to be approaching and Norfair's layout just makes it harder for ROB to approach Olimar, especially if Oli's... pretty much anywhere. Being under ROB makes it hard enough but extra ledges lets him drop down and grab the next one pretty easily. Even if you finally gimp him, he might just end up bouncing off the lava instead of dying on other stages.

I think it's still 45-55 Oli, 50-50 at best for ROB

 

[6Mizu]

hmmmm...IDK i still think we should give it a try.
Not in a tourney match, but maybe.....a friendly I mean I can give it a try the flamer from above ^^^^^ play oli.....so I guess i'll try.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

this is my hardest MU how do u get close to oli without being grabbed or smashed? His range is to ****ing good and he is to ****ing short and strong.

 

[TheMike]

Darth Waffles said what I would say about Norfair versus Olimar. The match is really 55:45, I put 50/55-50/45 because the result I got was something like 52.5. And yeah, I live in Brazil lol. ^^

 

[Mr.E]

You just have to know how to play Norfair to fight Olimar (and others) there. Most characters are at a disadvantage if their opponent can control the lower central platform. ROB does just as well down there as anyone and he's even one of the better characters at assaulting it from the sides with his own projectiles. There's no reason to CP an Olimar there anyway but you might at least find a better stage ban.

 

[TheMike]

The point against Olimar is that we should never CP a stage that helps with his bad recovery(lava, ledges).

 

[Commander_Beef]

R.O.B.'s advantages: Olimar is killed early.

R.O.B. is one of the best gimpers in the game, so I think he means that we can kill Olimar early by means of gimping while we're off the stage.
But yeah we can kill him just as moderate as we can other characters with our usual kill moves.
For smart Olimar's don't do predictable lasers because they'll shield them, not out of habit. Do mindgame lasers like B-reversalling, running away laser, or angled-down laser. Highly recommended to spam our forward/down tilts for this matchup. They're faster than Olimar's annoying ground game, and don't forget to down smash every time, not grab. The goal for this matchup is to keep Olimar off the ground. He has a floaty body. It definitely is 55:45 Olimar.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

really u are suppose to d-smash oli? every-time i try that he shields it and i get grabbed or d-smashed. maybe its b/c most of the olimars i play know me and know the d-smash is coming. seriously when i d-smash i always and i mean always get punished.

 

[6Mizu]

this is my hardest MU how do u get close to oli without being grabbed or smashed? His range is to ****ing good and he is to ****ing short and strong.

This is true for me as well. I hate OLIVEmar!

You just have to know how to play Norfair to fight Olimar (and others) there. Most characters are at a disadvantage if their opponent can control the lower central platform. ROB does just as well down there as anyone and he's even one of the better characters at assaulting it from the sides with his own projectiles. There's no reason to CP an Olimar there anyway but you might at least find a better stage ban.

Thanks for seeing my point of view to this....also what Mr.E said is very true.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i just played a friend of mine in a bunch of friendlies which he saved to his SD card. He used oli in a good deal of them and i was wondering should i post the videos here when he loads them or should i go to the video thread? Also since it was friendlies we both started messing around a bit so its not the best showing of skill but its not bad ether i just throw in a couple of random side-B's for the hell of it and i missed edge hogging moments. ether way they are solid matches and he is a pretty good olimar. It should also be noted i won most the matches b/c my friend has a curse were he just has a really hard time beating me but even through i won a good deal i still hate fighting olimar.

p.s: i don't know when he will put the videos up.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I got skooled

 

[stingers]

no

no

no

fair does not beat anything olimar will do

you are absolutely wrong