Rob Matchup Spectrum & Char Counterpick List

[Syde7]

So, I got to thinking while I was at work this morning at 3:30 am... doing nothing, about ROB (I was surrounded by computers, so it put me in a very ROB-bish mood), and thought of two new (and pretty easy) projects that I think would help ROB mains out overall.

1) MATCHUP SPECTRUM: similar to a MU grid, but instead of there being colors and ratio numbers, the characters (as opponents) are arranged on a "spectrum" in order of DIFFICULTY RELATIVE TO BOTH THE ADVANTAGE/DISADVANTAGE/NEUTRAL NOTION, AND TO THE CHARACTERS/MATCHUPS THEMSELVES. That way, we get a visual representation of the matchups, and a way to further dileneate MUs with the same supposed ratio. The final version will be all nice and fancy... but here is what I would like to see:

|--1--2-----3----------------------6-------------5---------4----------|

Where;
|-- is the worst disadvantage
--| is the best advantage
1= MK (for illustrative purposes)
2= ZSS (illustrative purposes)
3= Gaw ("____")
4= Ness ("____")
5= IC's ("_____")
6= Marth ("____")

Again, the numbers/chars are used for illustrative purposes. As another point of reference, use the color spectrum on the COMPLETE CHARACTER SYNOPSES as a "template" as I will be plotting the chars against that spectrum (though elongated so as not to be so cluttered)

Discussion/critique will follow until we can hammer out a pretty solid list.



2) SECONDARY LIST: List of the top 2-3 counters for each character ROB does not have a big advantage over (from yellowish green on back to deep red, if you are thinking in terms of the color spectrum above). This will help get a list of possible secondaries for ROBs harder matchups, and those that can go either way (most of which depend on comfort level of that matchup). And, please no silliness/griping about MK. Just provide the "best" chars to use against him. Also, please refrain from listing MK as a possible secondary for EVERY MU. We know this already, but please only put him as a possible secondary in matchups he utterly ***** in.

Hopefully we can pull all this together within about two weeks, with both parts complimenting the character synopses (which should be updated almost to the point of completion by then; see "matchup spectrum" & "Secpndary List") and the ROB community guide (see "Secondary List")


Thanks ahead of time for your participation.

 

[TEECO]

I'm liking this idea

:}

 

[Browny]

this indeed is an awesome idea. Permission to use on other boards? crediting you, of course

 

[Sudai]

I had morning wood coming into this thread. I have more durable morning wood leaving. :]


Edit: Used color to censor since asterisks wouldn't get my point across.

 

[TheMike]

That was a VERY nice ideia! =)

 

[Syde7]

Ok, so I whipped up a basic graphical "template" for folks to use. For those with photoshop, super easy stuff. For those with just paint, make sure to set it so stuff that you have can overlap without that white background eating into whatever it is you are overlapping.

Note: I would like two ZSS placements, one considering the infinite, and one without.

Note #2: To keep with the "matchups relative to one another" theme, use MK and Marth as your reference points (far left, and dead center respectively{maybe slightly to one side or the other}), as we have talked extensively about MK and pretty much agreed that Marth is 50/50.

When filling this out, group first by level of difficulty to get a rough spectrum, and then move the portraits around while considering them in relation to one another.

http://www.freewebs.com/essyc/Smash/MULINETEMPLATE.jpg

^link to the template.

Edit: Feel free to "stack" portraits on top of one another to save space.

 

[Sudai]

For those using MSPaint, google and download a program called Paint.net

Free photoshop, basically.

 

[Deadweight]

I did one with the 12 hardest MUs. Cause after that we really dont need cps

 

[Sudai]

That's gonna need a lot of polishing. <.<

 

[Deadweight]

That's gonna need a lot of polishing. <.<

was it supposed to look pretty?

 

[Deadweight]

im making another one with the template that will look about 100% better :D

 

[Deadweight]

 

[Deadweight]

Snake takes up 6/12 of our hardest matchups (Including our hardest aswell as our third hardest)
DDD takes up 4/12
G@W takes up 3/12
Falco Takes up 3/12 (Our 2nd and 4th hardest)
Wario takes up 2/12

I think any of these 5 make great secondaries for R.O.Bs

 

[Kid Nino]

To the Thread OP Great idea I'll try to help in any way I can.

In terms of information, it's all there. However, I think it should be polished a bit more. :/

 

[Deadweight]

To the Thread OP Great idea I'll try to help in any way I can.



In terms of information, it's all there. However, I think it should be polished a bit more. :/

Yea im not claiming it to be a masterpiece or anything lol someone wants to go ahead and use that as a basis of a cleaner version go nuts

 

[Sudai]

I was just nitpicking earlier. Nice quadruple post, btw. :o

 

[Syde7]

http://www.freewebs.com/essyc/Smash/ROB MU LINETEST1.jpg

Threw it together last night/this morning, used the MU discussions + personal opinions as my primary means of information. Feel free to pick it apart.

Note: its just the matchup line, sans the "counter chars"

 

[Syde7]

bump for critique/discussion.

 

[Darth Waffles]

This isn't just because of Dull's spectrum, but...

Has anyone actually had a ZSS pull off the footstool infinite on them? In an actual match? How many of you have actually played against a ZSS that even knows how to do it?

Yes, it seems pretty easy for the ZSS to get once the dsmash connects, but I don't want people saying "Yeah, I can do it for like 40% in training mode" or "I got 50% in a friendly." We keep splitting ZSS into a disadvantaged matchup without the infinite and an even worse one with the infinite. Since we don't do this with Ice Climbers based on "if you get grabbed," why do it with ZSS "if you get Dsmashed," something that's even more situational than the IC one? How many people have ever actually had a ZSS pull this off on them?

 

[Sudai]

I just have to say, the ZSS infinite is -less- situational than the IC one. I've been DSmashed by ZSS (never infinited though) more than I've ever been grabbed by ICs and I've played the ICs match-up literally 20-30x more than I've played the ZSS match. This was against the likes of Melee1 and Lain, btw, not scrubby ICs.

 

[Darth Waffles]

I meant "more situational" as "less likely to happen," though I guess that wasn't the best wording for it. I've only played Snakee's ZSS but he told me (at least awhile ago) that he couldn't do it and had never done it on a ROB, and he had said he would learn it when it first came out. I've just never seen a ZSS ever pull it off on any ROB in a serious match (or even in a friendly) so I don't know why we split the matchup because of it

Edit: Like, in all the times you've ever been Dsmashed by a ZSS since the footstool loop was discovered, how many times have you ever been infinited or even been close-to-infinited by it? You say none, and I don't know if any other ROBs have been caught by it, but we don't split the Falcon matchup because of the footstool loop (heh, we actually yelled at them for it =P) just because it's never actually happened to a ROB, or at least to the point where it's common enough to be considered other than the fact that it might be possible to do.

 

[Sudai]

I really don't care if it's split or not, I was just saying that the opportunity comes up a lot more for ZSS.

I actually haven't played any ZSS since the loop was discovered (well, there was one time but he didn't know about the loop yet, technically. XD).

 

[Pyrostormer]

yeah there are only 2 zss mains in my state and i havent played either of them in tourney since the loop was found

we'll see when the time comes i guess

-stingers

 

[GwJ]

I've never been infinited, and I played Snakeee a few months ago.

 

[Nefarious B]

It's only easy to do once you're above like 50% or so, before that and you need really perfect timing to get the first one started.

Comparing ZSS infinite to the IC's is ******** though. Dsmash has stupidly long range, and the character itself is much more mobile which will help set it up in the first place.

 

[Deadweight]

I meant "more situational" as "less likely to happen," though I guess that wasn't the best wording for it. I've only played Snakee's ZSS but he told me (at least awhile ago) that he couldn't do it and had never done it on a ROB, and he had said he would learn it when it first came out. I've just never seen a ZSS ever pull it off on any ROB in a serious match (or even in a friendly) so I don't know why we split the matchup because of it

Edit: Like, in all the times you've ever been Dsmashed by a ZSS since the footstool loop was discovered, how many times have you ever been infinited or even been close-to-infinited by it? You say none, and I don't know if any other ROBs have been caught by it, but we don't split the Falcon matchup because of the footstool loop (heh, we actually yelled at them for it =P) just because it's never actually happened to a ROB, or at least to the point where it's common enough to be considered other than the fact that it might be possible to do.

Nickriddle a ZSS from Florida
Has and will footstool infinite you in tourney

 

[Syde7]

ive had it done to me. Granted, it was online, but- it was done. Then again, I told the dude to focus on USING the infinite, so I could get adapted to NOT being hit by a d-smash. Even still, its much harder than not getting grabbed by ICs. As said before, it was easier (he had more success with it) after 50%. I ate two infinites over the course of four matches, and that was when it first came out; ala before they practiced it enough to know/be able to do it at the drop of a hat.

To me, the IC game revolves around grab ****/grab infinites... whereas the ZSS one does not, its just more of a boost. Therefore, its not necc. for the ZSS, but it helps out a whole lot... hence my reason for wanting to break it up.