Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[dquarius]

Orcane Dair is DI'able after the second use if someone DI's properly. Against CPU's, it's harder to tell that you actually can. It's way less broken now than it used to be.

ok thanks for telling me i will have my little brother come to my house tomorrow to try it.

 

[YardyHardy]

The time I've spent with Zetterburn so far has resulted in finding a few tips and tricks to help anyone interested in picking up the character.
​

What will I be covering?:

• Game play oriented around racking up damage with the use of being able to catch the opponent on fire while pushing the opponent off the stage at early percents in attempts to put Zetterburns edge guard to work.
• Combos on top of combos. When handled right Zetterburn comes in 2nd of the 4 for best combo game just below Wrastor.
• Neutral Special is what anyone would expect from a move inspired by Shine. Using this move effectively will help swing the battle in your favor.
• Zetterburns survivability is a lot better than most would expect. Using mix-ups to get back on stage will insure living to longer percents.

Burn Damage:

• Connecting a special move or Back Air will cause the opponent hit by it to receive a burning affect. Fairly simple concept but let's look at the overall picture of this bonus.
  • It takes roughly 1 second for the burn damage to begin after a special is connected. The percent that is dealt over 3 seconds accumulates to 5%.
  • The negative to this is the delay on burn damage when an opponent is hit in the burning process. If they're hit with another Special the burn damage will refresh.
• What does this mean then? For example, If you perform a string with Zetterburn that starts with Neutral Special and lasts for at least 5 seconds ending with a Side Special. During that string an extra 6-10% was added without you needing to do any additional work. Keep this in mind while performing Strings.

Edge Guarding:

• What are the tools that are most effective for Zetterburns Edge Guarding?
  • Neutral Special for Shine Spikes.
  • Down Air for spike attempt.
  • Side Special for hands off interruption of others recovery.
  • Down Special can spike although it will result in a Self Destruct. Use cautiously.
• Zetterburns Shine Spike works slightly different than Fox Shine spike does in Melee. If you land the Neutral Special on an air-born opponent that character will be sent in a angle relative to the part of the attack (Hitting with the bottom right/left will send them in a downward diagonal) thus making it harder for them to recovery.
• Down Air has great kill potential even providing low percent kills on Kragg after Up Special has been used and Orcane without a puddle in play. The move itself is pretty simple to understand in and edge guard situation. Be careful though as an opponent may wall jump out of the spike and recover.
• Side-Special sends out a fireball similar to a laser from Falco in Melee. The use of this in an edge guard situation would be to push the opponent till they can't recover or set up for another edge guard tactic. Be careful though as this can aid an opponent in recovering by refreshing their Up Special.
  • Examples of when this is effective to use:
    • A enemy Zetterburn is in the Up Special buffer. This can lead to Down Air setups.
    • Kragg is jumping back to stage and in using Zetterburns Side Special you attempt to push him away from the stage
• Down Special has a spike to it that isn't as strong as Down Air but could still kill an opponent. Used mostly to style. You will SD if you use this offstage so be up by a stock at least when used.

Combo Potential

• Zetterburn can maintain long combos taking opponents from one side of the stage to the other. With the use of all the tools within his kit you're sure to get a few nice combos per-game.
• The moves that make this possible:
  • Up Air and Up Tilt: These moves are great against opponents above you. Can be strung into itself. Up Air has kill potential.
  • Forward Air and Back Air: Both moves are similar, great for spacing and moving the opponent across the stage. Forward Air has more knock back making it great for offstage play. Back Air can lead into most other options making it a great option itself.
  • Down Air and Neutral Air: Neutral Air is a good option as it has a circular hitbox. Down Air will bounce the opponent setting up Up Airs or Up Tilts.
  • Neutral Special: Good setup into forward air. Can combo into itself with the use of a Waveshine. (Will upload video further demonstrating the power of this.)

Neutral Special - Forward Smash

• When looking at what others had to say one topic was brought up about Zetterburn not being able to kill. With this setup you're bound to get kills off around 100% if near an edge. What you need to do is Neutral Special, wavedash towards the opponent thus doing a waveshine then lead into a Forward Smash. Without the wavedash this followup is not possible.

Neutral Special

Inspired by Wolfs Shine this move has high expectations to what it will become. As of now the use of it in Waveshines is great. Performed by pressing Neutral Special then performing a wavedash you will often be rewarded with another chance to use Neutral Special but it's not guaranteed. By performing 2 wavedashes you set yourself up for a higher chance to get another Neutral Special.​

Recovery

Does Zetterburn have good recovery? In short the answer to this is yes, although it needs to be used in the correct way. A technique where you are able to air dodge out of the startup of Zetterburns Up Special and then perform the move again gains him some distance in the air. Adding on to the extra air dodge distance you can then shoot straight towards the edge of the stage making up the horizontal distance needed. Once against the side of the stage performing a wall jump will provide you with yet another Up Special. Double Jump, Air dodge cancel up special, up special, wall jump, up special. Doing so gains you huge distance making any situation recoverable. ​

Overall Zetterburn is a character looking to be cracked open. Hopefully these tips have helped you better understand the character. Good luck on the battlefield!​

 

[likiji123]

Glitch found! (kragg)

the way it works is if you do a forward smash attack right before the block falls to the ground this happens

also @ likiji123 can you tell me the size of a regular stance (pixels)

 

[akf09]

i found a large kragg glitch today that allows him to throw a block and then jump off of the same block he threw while it is in the air, basiclly giving him 3 air jumps and increasing his recovery ALOT. i made a short video showing it but i cant seem to figure out how to post a video on here haha

 

[akf09]

uploading it to yotube in order to show it and i will explain the inputs as well

 

[akf09]

i cant figure it out i emailed it to you dan @ 4nace

 

[DrMister]

I'll see if I can play today, but if my laptop can't handle it, I'll have to wait until I buy the new one in a couple of days

 

[Fantom]

Really liking the way this build plays. Orcane is really fun, but I wish I could do a dair chain spike haha. On a more serious note, I haven't really had many problems. Not really any glitches yet.

 

[TOGOpuff]

i found a large kragg glitch today that allows him to throw a block and then jump off of the same block he threw while it is in the air, basiclly giving him 3 air jumps and increasing his recovery ALOT. i made a short video showing it but i cant seem to figure out how to post a video on here haha

waiting on this video !

 

[KrozoMagnus]

First of all, I am very honored to become a play-tester of this great game. My brother and I will be playing this a lot, as well as some of my friends. Playing last night we stumbled upon a bug, not sure if anyone else has.

(youtube.com)/watch?v=4ljqfh8mUbI
(Can't post direct links yet)

It occurs when there is a puddle on the stage and Orcane gets hit out of his Up Special on the ground. The new puddle is active and the old puddle is not, but when the new puddle gets used in any way, the old puddle now becomes active. Just thought I'd bring this to light.

Can't wait to find more in this in-depth game. The four characters are very balanced and I love playing as all of them.

 

[Streetwize]

Does Zetterburn have good recovery? In short the answer to this is yes, although it needs to be used in the correct way. A technique where you are able to air dodge out of Zetterburns Up Special and then perform the move again gains him some distance in the air. Adding on to the extra air dodge distance you can then shoot straight towards the edge of the stage making up the horizontal distance needed. Once against the side of the stage performing a wall jump will provide you with yet another Up Special. Double Jump, Air dodge cancel up special, up special, wall jump, up special. Doing so gains you huge distance making any situation recoverable.

You might want to test this part for yourself before giving it to others. You cannot air dodge in the middle of his Up Special; only during the startup. This gives the technique very little application for recovery. Unless there is a way you clearly did not mention, I'm gonna have to shoot down being able to do his up special three times in one air-time.

Also, @ KrozoMagnus 's video:

 

[Xanthus]

http://www.twitch.tv/xanthus1/c/5694861

Wasn't able to get any RoA in last night at my smashfest, too busy practicing for melee tournament. I wanted to show a bit more about how strong a few of Kragg's options are (although I didn't use down-b as much to cover rolling / other options).

I'll be interested in seeing the rock nerfs (I didn't use d-throw nair because I knew it'd get removed), but mainly hope whatever your do to the pillar is significant enough for it to keep Kragg from wanting to stay at the top of the stage. I'll have to get footage of playing against my nephew, he got pretty decent at abusing it. You can eventually get in after a bit of chasing and out-thinking what they want to do, but it feels more like you're playing against one move than a character. I hope the following isn't too much theory and "this is what happens on paper", but I think it applies in practice. I'll try to get some RoA footage this weekend with people.

I suppose Wrastor has a move closest to my issue with the pillar: the super fast side-b move that leaves wind. If you use it properly Wrastor will dominate horizontally; there's the initial hitbox that goes horizontal across the entire screen (although you can parry it), and then wrastor can dash dance and approach/combo like crazy. But when you play against that , you have more movement options horizontally and getting on platforms and a more interesting back and forth. And once the wind is out, he can't threaten you with it again until it runs out.

With Kragg, if he's touched the ground (which obviously is easy to do), you have to worry about being anywhere beneath him. It's much more limiting to approach vertically in this game than horizontal, so to get up and around that potential hitbox takes more work; even if you bait and break the pillar while advancing, he'll land and be able to jump+create another. Also while on the top he can throw rocks down at you / for his pillars to break.

I know it doesn't necessarily combo, but it's still rough / distorts the sense of spacing and the neutral game in a way that is much slower and not as fun (imo). Thoughts?

 

[AbbiDood]

Quick thing I'd like to suggest after watching a lot of the VGBC stream, consider making the edge of the screen the blast zone. Like, a lot of the time it seemed very hard to follow who actually is where when that little round icon appeared once you go past the camera or whatever. Might just be me, I don't know. Absolutely not necessary at all but I'd love to see that happen.

But yea the game looks absolutely beautiful. Now that I have a proper computer again I don't mind the "PC/Xbone" exclusivity anymore at all, super excited to play this whenever it comes out.

Also quick question for people who have the game, how does Wrastor get his kills? Coney seemed to REALLY struggle with killing a lot of the time, but then again he was fighting against Kragg who I assume is super heavy. Somebody in the chat was mentioning his Up B, but Coney wasn't using that at all so I don't know. Definitly looks like the most fitting character for my playstyle so yea, just curious haha.

 

[akf09]

waiting on this video !

my email didnt go through ughh haha i am not good at using frapps what format should i save video in?

 

[akf09]

Quick thing I'd like to suggest after watching a lot of the VGBC stream, consider making the edge of the screen the blast zone. Like, a lot of the time it seemed very hard to follow who actually is where when that little round icon appeared once you go past the camera or whatever. Might just be me, I don't know. Absolutely not necessary at all but I'd love to see that happen.

But yea the game looks absolutely beautiful. Now that I have a proper computer again I don't mind the "PC/Xbone" exclusivity anymore at all, super excited to play this whenever it comes out.

Also quick question for people who have the game, how does Wrastor get his kills? Coney seemed to REALLY struggle with killing a lot of the time, but then again he was fighting against Kragg who I assume is super heavy. Somebody in the chat was mentioning his Up B, but Coney wasn't using that at all so I don't know. Definitly looks like the most fitting character for my playstyle so yea, just curious haha.

wrastor gets kills mostly using his aerial smash attacks, his down smash is jump cancelable so if you hit it you can jump cancel into an up smash

 

[JCOnyx]

Quick thing I'd like to suggest after watching a lot of the VGBC stream, consider making the edge of the screen the blast zone. Like, a lot of the time it seemed very hard to follow who actually is where when that little round icon appeared once you go past the camera or whatever. Might just be me, I don't know. Absolutely not necessary at all but I'd love to see that happen.

But yea the game looks absolutely beautiful. Now that I have a proper computer again I don't mind the "PC/Xbone" exclusivity anymore at all, super excited to play this whenever it comes out.

Also quick question for people who have the game, how does Wrastor get his kills? Coney seemed to REALLY struggle with killing a lot of the time, but then again he was fighting against Kragg who I assume is super heavy. Somebody in the chat was mentioning his Up B, but Coney wasn't using that at all so I don't know. Definitly looks like the most fitting character for my playstyle so yea, just curious haha.

He has plenty of options for getting kills. Aerial Smashes (especially UpSmash because of how large the hitbox is), Neutral Air gimps, UpAir at high percents, UpTilt mixup, Tornado, and sweetspot UpSpecial. You have to take advantage of his multiple jumps to secure earlier kills than the other charcters, and knocking Kragg off his pillar while offstage is pretty simple as Wrastor, so after adjusting to the offstage playstyle it shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[Streetwize]

So teching does work against that so-called "infinite" I recorded. Thanks for bringing that up. I should be able to kick his ass easier when we play again.
He also asks for a more dynamic camera. I can see where it gets a little... lacking...

Edit: I suggest adding a "J" next to the D icon to indicate if a character has used all of their jumps.
Please, put in a random character and stage option soon.

 

[akf09]

ok i posted the glitch video here https://www.facebook.com/rivalsofaether on the ROA facebook page it is under "posts to page" on the left. i couldnt figure out any other way to post it. sad i know but at least u guys can see it now @ 4nace

also people on this forum should like the ROA facebook page as it does not have very many likes

 

[dquarius]

Playing as Wrastor I've found an interesting tech using his side special like above where he is wearing his goggles to cover abit more space.

 

[KrozoMagnus]

He also asks for a more dynamic camera. I can see where it gets a little... lacking...

I thought the same thing, the camera seems a little stiff compared to smash. But at the same time, this is a 2D game not 3D, so It may not need any zooming. I would like to see it though.

 

[DrMister]

Orcane is a REALLY solid character. Probably top of the tier list at this moment. One minor problem is that his dair feels like a nair and I find myself kinda troubled because I confuse the moves lol.
Zetterburn is amazing as well, he feels so natural to me, because he feels just like Wolf, and I ADORE using Wolf!
Kragg can easily set up kills with his Up-B and his rocks are (in my opinion) the best projectile at the moment.
Wrastor feels good as well, and his Air-Smashes are good, but he's really underpowered because his weight really makes him easy to get blasted off to the pits of 'Whoknowswhere'
Even if the game lags a lot, when I have my new Laptop I will play this nonstop!
Also PS3 Controller feels just as good as a Gamcube for me!

 

[Xanthus]

Streaming Rivals of Aether again! http://www.twitch.tv/xanthus1
Come on by, suggest anything you want me to try

Gonna be working on a bit of everybody today

 

[YardyHardy]

You might want to test this part for yourself before giving it to others. You cannot air dodge in the middle of his Up Special; only during the startup. This gives the technique very little application for recovery. Unless there is a way you clearly did not mention, I'm gonna have to shoot down being able to do his up special three times in one air-time.

I understand where you are coming from and I altered my post to make it more apparent that I'm talking about air dodging out of the startup. Although I disagree completely with what you said of it having little application in recovery as it gains you extra distance towards the stage thus making it worth performing anytime you're a good distance away. The extra distance can be what determines if you make it back or not. I had never said you could perform 3 up specials in one air time as you are to air dodge out of the first one making the number of full up specials 2.

 

[Deleted member]

This project seems promising.. looking forward to it. Keep up the good work.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Forgot to post it on here, but I was streaming once more today!
Here's the link to all of my stream today for anyone who wants to bear over 3 hours straight of gamecube controller clicks and chill music paired with my annoying voice and Rivals of Aether:
http://www.twitch.tv/earthbones/c/5697825

Thanks to the few regulars who keep tuning in. You all make my day!

-----

I show off Kragg rock glitch, as well as Orcane puddle glitch while it's on a rock and Kragg upB's through it. Also see the Orcane CPU's having a double puddle glitch again. I can't recreate it myself but it happened twice in a few hours.

 

[YardyHardy]

During my play session today with a friend I came across something with Kragg that may have already been brought up before.

Kragg can use his up special when under the Air Armada and stay positioned for however long the player feels. This at the moment is only a problem for the Air Armada stage as it's the only stage as of now with no side wall but future maps like this one will have the same problem if not dealt with. Orcane may be able to fall down and hit the pillar and up special back to stage and the same goes for Wraster having some jumps to burn but more times than not the only way to get a camping Kragg is through self destructing. The only way I could see this being taken out is through a timer on the pillar in which it will disappear. Adding the timer shouldn't alter how Kragg is played too much. The only problem with a timer is wall combos being dropped due to the pillar disappearing. Hopefully you can sort this out @ 4nace

 

[4nace]

@ akf09
Wouldn't he have to attack the rock and then jump off it? I don't think it is solid until he hits it. A video would definitely help here but I will try to reproduce to see how it works.

@ YardyHardy
Thanks I'll add the pillar underneath the air stage to the bugs. I knew about it yes, but still don't have a solid solution. It is not even great to be down there as Kragg. I might just make it so he can't pull a pillar out down there at all. Alternatively I could just give the stage invisible walls on the way down. Not sure just yet.

Keep the bugs coming. I'll try to respond to everyone at some point. If I missed something that you would like me to check out, just tag me at the end

Thanks,
Dan Fornace

 

[YardyHardy]

It is not even great to be down there as Kragg.

Really the only problem with it would be in competitive play in which a Kragg up by one stock could just sit. Similar to playing ChuDat in PM. I'm sure most people wouldn't use this casually as it would only result in friendships being broken.

 

[akf09]

@ akf09
Wouldn't he have to attack the rock and then jump off it? I don't think it is solid until he hits it. A video would definitely help here but I will try to reproduce to see how it works.

i posted a video on the rivals of aether facebook page! i could not figure out how to post it here and it took like 2 hours to upload haha. the input ofr it is special jump forward throw block with special button then double jump to catch up to the block then fast fall and dair the block and u get an exra jump

 

[WheelerFGC]

Not exactly a bug, but I wanted to point out that Wrastor's Utilt kills at 80 on Rock Wall (Maybe the other stages) near the edge. On the Rock Wall in particular, I'm pretty sure it kills from at the pillars.

Also, pertaining to Wrastor, He's kinda slow for a bird...
He has great aerial mobility and his air combos are good (but hard to keep going) but actually approaching is a little bit of a problem. His down-special, which I would assume would be a good combo starter, has a considerable amount of end lag, in which the opponent could DI away or attack if he wiffs.

Just a general thing amongst the whole roster/engine: Wavedashes are REALLY EASY to use.

 

[Xanthus]

Also, pertaining to Wrastor, He's kinda slow for a bird...
He has great aerial mobility and his air combos are good (but hard to keep going) but actually approaching is a little bit of a problem. His down-special, which I would assume would be a good combo starter, has a considerable amount of end lag, in which the opponent could DI away or attack if he wiffs.

Use side B and dash attack. You should pretty much always have wind up on the ground when approaching , and his dash attack is one of the best ways to go in.

 

[WheelerFGC]

Use side B and dash attack. You should pretty much always have wind up on the ground when approaching , and his dash attack is one of the best ways to go in.

Ohhhhhh.
Weird, that's kinda odd. I didn't say that they were bad ways to get in, but the down-special is kinda misleading, it looks like it would be a decent setup move, but it has a crazy amount of endlag.

 

[4nace]

Ohhhhhh.
Weird, that's kinda odd. I didn't say that they were bad ways to get in, but the down-special is kinda misleading, it looks like it would be a decent setup move, but it has a crazy amount of endlag.

Yeah it's meant to be a setup move. It does have lots of recovery on whiff though so jumping or rolling is how you punish it. It is a good setup move in the fact that it has low recovery on hit and puts opponents into an extended hitstun state (that flipping state)

-Dan

 

[WheelerFGC]

Ahhhh. That makes more sense.

I was talking to another Alpha-tester on Facebook and I said these things to him: (Minor things, but just something I noticed while I was just messing around earlier)

just noticed that Orcane's puddles almost have a Diddy-banana kind of thing to them. Set one up, then just Down-B and cause 21 damage. (it's more of the setup thing that reminds me of diddy)

Now that I think about it, 21 damage is a lot, but considering that you have to set it up, that's a pretty decent reward. That's also if the opponent doesn't DI

Orcane's FAir is the derpiest thing I've seen. But if you hold back on the stick right after you start it, you go back farther from the bubbles.

 

[Burnsy]

Orcane is the cutest thing ever. And he's so fun to play, I love his moveset and turnrun boosts (a-la-squitle). Everyone else is really cool too.

I played on my own a TON today learning the basics and a few ATs, but I'll wait to give full impressions once I've actually gotten a good chance to play with real people and revisit the game a few times.

Edit:

How could I forget? Instant RAR Fair into edge cancel. <3333333 Orcane tho

 

[gnosis]

Oh hey, an update! I'm a little late to the party but I'm loving this December build so far.

Kragg has a couple issues, but it seems most of them are getting looked at (things like rock+instabreak spam). One thing I noticed is that it feels clunky only being able to lift the rock from above while also not being able to shorthop on top of the rock. Overall the character excites me and I'm looking forward to digging in deeper.

Now that I've given Orcane some more time I like him a lot more. Specifically discovering how slidey his dash is and how you can pull your puddle to threaten way bigger areas with it than I thought you could originally, using things like dash towards puddle - flick back -pivot forward+smash to cover a huge area.

I personally love his fair. I like unique moves like that that don't automatically plug right in to the game but can be milked in lots of creative ways. Fair-dspecial bubbles-fair is pretty funny and does gnarly damage. There also seems to be a sweetspot that hits pretty hard. Seems to be on his back near his fin while getting pushed into the enemy? Not exactly sure, only seen it a couple times. If it is there, I really love that from a design and flavor point of view.

Overall the character is still tough for me to feel confident with due to his lack of 'reliability'; lots of low range moves that aren't even always that quick, and if they are high range, they tend to be pretty laggy. As compared to someone like Wrastor who has good 'priority' and fast, easily positionable moves.

Speaking of Wrastor, switching around his dair and his dsmairsh was, imo, exactly the kind of change he needed. Takes away some of that ease of use and reliability that made me feel Wrastor was so strong in the August build and makes him need some more precision and thought to get his kills. Also, did you slow down his nonwind speed and up his wind speed a little bit? It could just be my imagination but that's what it seemed like to me. If so that's another change I like that makes him have more refraction periods and moments of opportunity for the opponent.

Zetterburn is solid as usual. My one gripe with him is how hard it can be to avoid getting caught on fire at times. Between his long range projectile and long-lasting fire puddle on the ground, it's hard to get in or pressure him without resorting to a very campy playstyle. Sort of reminds me of Diddy hiding behind a banana and spamming peanuts. It's not nearly as big of a deal as that though since the fire deals a small amount of damage by itself and isn't really a threat unless he's also landing smash attacks.

 

[DrMister]

I still have to credit the smoothness of Orcane. His reliance on puddles is what make him completely unique. On a side note, like I said before, could you raise Wrastors weight? Im sure that would partially hurt his recovery, but that'd give us an actual reason to use his Up-Special other than as a combo finisher.
Also, the "MineKragg" glitch is real crazy. That's the one where you can keep stacking blocks and blocks until you can even cover the WHOLE screen with blocks. Im real certain you probably know this glitch, but just in case. @ 4nace

 

[Rossuizan]

twitch.tv/rossuizan_
Practicing my Zettaburn.

 

[4nace]

@ G gnosis
Yup will be addressing the Kragg pick up issue. Going to try letting him pick up a rock that is next to him and just seeing how the visual looks without drawing any new frames. He should probably be able to shorthop onto the rock anyway though so I might hit him with both changes.

@ DrMister
Hmm.. you mean make Wrastor fall faster? I do agree that with wall jump Wrastor never has to worry about dying off the bottom, but that is part of his design. A bit like Jigglypuff or Pit in the smash series.
In terms of MineKragg, since that is a Co-op action, I won't put a hardstop to that just yet. I could easily fix it but until it causes issues in competitive play I won't be touching it

I will be playing with friends over Xmas so expect a balance update near the New Year. It won't have too much since I will also be working on char 5. I hope everyone here has a lovely holiday as well!

-Dan

 

[Xanthus]

http://www.twitch.tv/xanthus1 Streaming again versus a real person dude guy!