Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[likiji123]

I am going to do in game version of all the renders you guys post so

What one does when one is bored of studying for finals:

And i made 1 myself

Vegeta Zetterburn

 

[JCOnyx]

Kragg Down-B spam
You may be aware of this, but because you can immediately waveland onto/off his rock blocks, you can create a flurry of rocks really quickly that I'm sure would be very difficult and annoying to deal with. I haven't fully gotten the timing down perfectly, but it will be ridiculous when I do . I would suggest being inactive for a little bit in the air after a downthrow.

And to be honest, in general the move comes out SUPER quick, and can be thrown VERY fast, and could stand a speed nerf

How tight is the window for the Bair to hit the rock? Do you have to waveland off in order to get that to work? After watching early Pac-Man footage this was what I immediately tried to do but didn't mess around with it too much. I'm sure with a bit more time messing around with this I could get it down but I thought I'd ask first lol.

I'm going to assume the Rock DThrow - DSpecial is going to get nerfed eventually, so this'll probably end up the go to method for instant rock breaks.

@ JCOnyx
Are you using the WII U GC adapter? I have the DInput controls set up for the older USB ones. If you have an Xbox 360 controller, thats your safest bet for now. It will be a little bit before we can implement support for custom controls on both Xinput and Dinput.
His Bair is meant to be a lingering hitbox inside his body a bit since other characters have Nair which can usually fill that role. His Nair extends from his body a bit like Rob or Charizard. Perhaps it doesn't linger quite long enough to get that point across.

I was in fact using the new adapter, which needless to say did not work well.

I decided I'd just use my PS3 controllers. I wanted to see if I could get the GC controllers working since I'm used to them for Smash and it would translate well... but that didn't happen. I don't actually own any windows 360 controllers and couldn't find a way to get my wireless controllers to connect to my laptop. My thought process was I'd try to use one of the controllers you brought up in the email but I unfortunately don't have the ability atm.

As for feedback, I'm going to try and sustain from making any assumptions until I actually bring this to a friendly and play some more human opponents. I have played with a couple friends and family though that are more casually interested in platform fighters, and they do enjoy the creativity you've put into the characters so far! My girlfriend is rather taken back from the lack of shields though, which tbh is a really big change and will take a lot of getting used to.

I'd love to record gameplay for you as well, and I have something set up at the moment that can do so, but the quality is absolute trash... Does anyone have any recommendations for recording software and/or how to optimize it for laptop usage? If not I can make do with what I have but it won't look pretty lol.

 

[Xanthus]

Its not too hard, I Waveland off bair as its quicker, but if that gets removed (as it probably should), you can hold to the side after dthrow and bair or fair the rock. If the ending lag from dthrow is increased you'll probably have to bair (if itll be possible at all), as fair has a little startup. Its a neat bit of character tech that I'd like to keep, but only if the initial pull or throw has a tiny bit more lag.

 

[likiji123]

More Colours!

Heracross Kragg

i had this idea because of a comment on reddit which said

INTRODUCING : METROSEXUAL FALCO, HERACROSS, ASLAN, AND SHAMU

 

[JCOnyx]

A small note I just realized, the damage taken total after battle does not include DoT from Zetta's burn. Not sure if that was deliberately done or not, but I'm sure by now someone has already told you this lol.

Also, I said I wouldn't give any feedback until a bit later but... I'm pretty positive Wrastor might still be broke. Like beyond crazy good. It might just be the Zetta matchup with the poor recovery and all but my god lol. Get him offstage then Fair and Nair all day. Also weak UpSpecial kills way too easily, as another side note.

Also also, I really like Orcane's land canceled Fair. Hard to time right but it does a ton of work.

 

[TOGOpuff]

Hello, TOGOpuff again... i just had time to play the new alpha version and i must say it is amazing. I loved the way shielding works and the game seems to be running smoothly besides the bug mentoned in the e-mail. I will play more and make character specifics videos of the alpha version, but here's the first video (it's in portuguese tho, i'm starting to mae videos for my own country public) but you can always watch the gameplay, i basically go through showing everycharacter and playing a little bit, nothing big yet.

 

[Streetwize]

I'd love to record gameplay for you as well, and I have something set up at the moment that can do so, but the quality is absolute trash... Does anyone have any recommendations for recording software and/or how to optimize it for laptop usage? If not I can make do with what I have but it won't look pretty lol.

I use OBS, which is normally for streaming. It works wonders as you can have a setup for a stream and just record it without internet. I don't have a good video editor yet so I'm stuck with YouTube right now (which really isn't good when you have to re-upload an edited video and it doesn't exactly work properly).

 

[JCOnyx]

I use OBS, which is normally for streaming. It works wonders as you can have a setup for a stream and just record it without internet. I don't have a good video editor yet so I'm stuck with YouTube right now (which really isn't good when you have to re-upload an edited video and it doesn't exactly work properly).

I unfortunately tried setting OBS up last night and it couldn't record since my laptop seems incapable of running DX10. I was confused at first since I believe I've ran programs that have required it in the past, but whatever.

 

[Xanthus]

Also, for those wanting more than 2 gamecube controllers, you can use this program to emulate an xbox 360 controller with your gamecube controllers. Haven't tried it out yet for RoA, but I've used it before for another game that used xinput.

https://code.google.com/p/x360ce/

 

[Puppyfaic]

Also, for those wanting more than 2 gamecube controllers, you can use this program to emulate an xbox 360 controller with your gamecube controllers. Haven't tried it out yet for RoA, but I've used it before for another game that used xinput.

https://code.google.com/p/x360ce/

I already tried using that for my PS2 controller (which is also DInput) and it didn't work with RoA.

 

[4nace]

Playtester Patch Update 12.11.14!

For those of you accepted as playtesters, there is a new update with some changes! You can download the update by just redownloading the game from the email link. You should see a version number in the lower left corner of menus to make sure you are up to date.

General:

• AI now DI's randomly and switches up their DI after a period. They are most likely to DI toward left or right but can DI up or down as well. They also always DI toward stage if they are trying to recover.
• Bugfix: Pillars no longer draw in front of character backgrounds on the Rock Wall Stage.
• Bugfix: Trades should now function correctly. Let me know if you see any issues.
• Bugfix: Hurtboxes should correctly reset when walljumping immediately after an attack.

Zetterburn:

• Neutral Special charge time has been increased from 20 frames to 28 frames.
• Down Special Recovery has been reduced from 30 frames to 24 frames.

Orcane:

• Forward Smash startup has been increased from 10 frames to 13 frames.
• Bugfix: Having a puddle disappear from a rock should no longer trigger an unknown puddle error. (hopefully)

Wrastor:

• Up Special Knockback reduced. Knockback scaling reduced from .7 - .4.
• Down Special Grounded Hitbox has been shrunk. You should be able to get hit by projectiles now so you actually have to time it when your opponent is not attacking.

Kragg:

• You can now use Nspecial to pick a rock back up if you are standing on it. This "heals" the rock. You have to be on top of it not next to it. You can pick up other player's rocks.
• Down Special now finds ground beneath it. This means you can use it on your pillar to spike the ground beneath you.
• Down Special third spike killing potential has been removed. This attack now triggers a Tumble Hitstun state similar to Wrastor's Down Special setting Kragg up for combos.
• Down Special no longer breaks rocks when standing on it.
• Down Special has more start up and recovery now by about 4 frames on both sides.
• Up Special recovery has been increased from 18 to 22.
• No extreme Up Special changes yet. Also havent fixed the getting it back while inside platforms quite yet.
• Forward Special minimum time has been increased to 40 frames from 20 frames.
• Forward Special maximum time has been decreased to 100 frames from 125 frames.
• Forward Special loses speed if it gets hit by an attack on the ground. It must regain its speed. You can use projectiles to slow Kragg down and set up for a punish.
• Down Tilt now sends rocks at a 30 degree angle. A new angle for Kragg to shoot rocks at!
• Rock Master: Kragg is now the true master of his rocks. Any attack from Kragg will instantly smash a rock.

Those are the updates in the build today! I haven't hit all the Kragg changes I want to yet, but I don't want to be too rash changing things up that may be close. The Down Special change was a great suggestion by Puppyfaic and should make the move match the Rivals style much more. Also makes it feel less useless most the time.

So if you have time, play the build and let me know what other changes / issues you guys are having!

EDIT: Whoops I broke Orcane bubbles and up special trying to do that bugfix. Reuploaded so download again if you had downloaded before 4:51 PST!

Thanks,
Dan Fornace

 

[Xanthus]

Thanks for the great changes, and a quick update! Looking forward to CPU DI, and really interested to play with Kragg's other nerfs (especially side special) :D

However, rock spam might be even more broken: rock downthrow to nair sends rocks at a GREAT low upwards angle since any little hit breaks it now. So using it on a rock pillar slowly below and off the stage is really good. If the quickest you want rocks to come out is a dthrow-waveland-bair (which is still pretty quick), it'll need health again or increased delay somewhere, or whatever else you can think of.

Also not sure if this is how you want it to behave, but if you use down special on a rock pillar above a platform, the spikes can go to ground floor, then to a higher platform. I'm assuming it checks for ground below Kragg's height, do you want it to never go higher than the previous spike?

 

[Xanthus]

Bug: Orcane grounded UP B and Bonus Puddles
When Orcane up-b's on the ground, he doesn't teleport to puddle (intentional?). If he's hit out of his up B at the right time, it creates a new puddle (probably not intentional?). Then your standing up - b will teleport between the 3 puddles (as it creates a new one when you teleport) :D. You can also down-b all active puddles.

Orcane Tech: Reverse slide your smashes!
Because orcane gains speed when he turns around during his run, you can use this to REALLY slide with your puddle smashes and get amazing range. But you do need to run longer than the dash animation otherwise you can't do the sliding turn around.

 

[4nace]

Bug: Orcane grounded UP B and Bonus Puddles
When Orcane up-b's on the ground, he doesn't teleport to puddle (intentional?). If he's hit out of his up B at the right time, it creates a new puddle (probably not intentional?). Then your standing up - b will teleport between the 3 puddles (as it creates a new one when you teleport) :D. You can also down-b all active puddles.

Orcane Tech: Reverse slide your smashes!
Because orcane gains speed when he turns around during his run, you can use this to REALLY slide with your puddle smashes and get amazing range. But you do need to run longer than the dash animation otherwise you can't do the sliding turn around.

Yeah i broke Orcane. Working on fixing that now. Gonna have to try to be more careful to fix that Puddle glitch. As far as the rock breaking spam I think that down throw is probably the culprit here. I think that Kragg feels much more fluid being able to break the rock in a single go. The issue with nerfing down throw is that having it quick is kinda important for using down throw to get rid of a rock when flying through the air. I could probably increase your upward height when using down throw and then also increase the startup and recovery. That would probably be the best solution to reduce the Pull -> Down Throw -> Break spam while not ruining how pulling rocks or breaking rocks feel.

EDIT: Fix for orcane should be going up now. Still havent hit the Rock Break spam yet.

-Dan

 

[Hatninja]

If that's all that has changed... i got some minor nitpicks while i played the builds. It's overall really good so far though!

• It runs slightly slow on my pc.
• No back button for the stage select on controller.
• Button sound for stock counter doesn't play over itself.
• The left and the right buttons for stock counter remain clickable at number 1 or 99 respectively.
• Can't move out of respawning platforms.
• This is a little jarring:
  
  

 

[Puppyfaic]

Having to stand ON the block to pick it back up just feels like too much effort for too little reward. I feel like he should be able to pick the block up just be standing near it and pressing B.

That said, I have a cool little trick I like to do. Throwing the rock regularly and then immediately pressing down B lets him break the rock and send pebbles flying before it even has a chance to hit the ground!

Also I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but Orcane can Dash Cancel into any Strong attack. He's the only one who can do sliding Strong attacks like that. Retreating puddle Fsmash hurts.

 

[Xanthus]

Sorry I'm blowing up this thread so much right after you released

I was playing with ways to beat Kragg's side b, which wrastors tornado (if you keep slightly moving back) does really well. Zetterburn can punish with his flames a bit safer, but orcane's bubbles, instead of stunning, will straight up knock him out of it. I'm guessing they have some direct code to do something to the other character instead of a normal hit? Both his down b bubbles and fair bubbles do it.

 

[Bakuryu]

I kind of wish there was a better place for the dev discussion because I feel many people will end up repeating certain things. Something that kept track of feedback and its addressed comment would be really helpful.


Gameplay:


Overall I like that feel of the game, but I have some concerns about some of the mechanics and am wondering what is still to be implemented.


I'll start with one I saw was already addressed which was ledge grabs. Apparently you don't plan to put them in. You may have already said somewhere else (which harkens back to my first comment), but would you mind explaining why? This creates a weird dynamic to the ledge game (or lack thereof) as recoverers have fewer options, which would be unfair to them if it weren't the fact that other mechanics in the game make it really easy for them to not have to use their up special and to get multiple tries before dying, usually off the side instead of below. There are a couple reasons I think this happens and I will touch on that next. Right now I never really feel like I'm so far from the edge I can never recover as when I do go that far I usually am already dead from the death boundary. One last thing I thought of and haven't been able to test with edge guarding is the use of parrying when someone up specials, does anyone know if this will always put the edge guarder?


Another thing that is very Smash 4 like (sorry for the comparison it's just my easiest example) that leads to less deaths from below is how much damage a player can rack up on someone before they are truly killable, this is only worsened by the fact that characters seem to have specific kill moves instead of being able to technically kill from sweet spotted normal, a smash attack, or even a spike (are there spikes in the game or are they meteors?). An example of this is Wrastor's bair attack which is of course very reminiscent of Falcos. Sadly it does not have its strength it seems no matter where it hits, same with his neutral air at least not until extremely high percentages. Even then I was only able to really kill using my aerial smash attacks (not sure the correct term for them). Many of the other character have this similar issue. Zetterburn, Orcane, and Wrastor all have very good aerial moves for killing vertically which as I stated before tends to be an easier way to kill (at least to me). Kragg has good attacks that send people horizontally, but not until really high percentages can they really kill someone with it and again hit up air seems to be a better option.


Question, are grabs going to be implemented into the game? I ask because right now with no shields or grabs there isn't really a rock, paper, scissors element going on with the game. In Smash you had attack beats grab (usually), shield beats attack, grab beats shield. You also have spot dodge which beats grabs and attacks, but only if timed right, which is kind of how parry works except without grabs it only beats attacks and having it beat grabs would make it to powerful since there are no shields. Right now I feel like parry doesn't have a lot of down sides to it, if you miss you can get hit, but you're not really penalized for missing it, similar to how spot dodge can be baited since they have a semi decent recovery time and teching penalizes you for missing the correct window in smash. It would be nice if they were more easily punished for being abused.

Something I just though of to is that spawns the characters where they originally spawned instead of the center of the stage, personally from a competitive stand point it makes more sense for it to be in the center as the person has a chance to use the invincibility frames to go after their opponent and the other player has move in an unpredictable manner to not get hit, with it being in a set location to the left or right of the stage the opponent can simply hang out at the other side of the stage to guarantee the invincibility has worn off.


Character specific notes:


Zetterburn :


Seems like the most well rounded character so far, not surprised as I believe he was your first or at least one of the first two. My only complain about him is his down air doesn't seem to spike it seems it's a meteor? It has very low knockback/hitstun and because the AI was able to up special shortly after. Other than that he is a really solid character that I love playing as.


Orcane :


He definitely took some getting used to. My thoughts keep going back and forth on his up special, part of me things it broken and then the others like its totally balanced. The fact he needs to have a puddle out to recover makes me feel its balanced as well as its large recovery time and predictability, but it's also indestructible and it enables Orcane to technically go off the edge and do whatever he wants with a pretty much guaranteed recovery back to the stage enabling him really gimp anyone without a good aerial recover like Wrastor. After getting used to him though I do like playing as him, my only other complaint is his forward air which I feel takes forever to come out and has way to much backward momentum to easily capitalize on a hit although it makes it repetitively safe on parry I guess unless parry kills the momentum?


Wrastor:


I like this characters style, but I feel weird playing him mainly because I can only kill off his air strong attacks and his up b. As I mentioned before I feel like his bair and nair are a bit under powered, but maybe I'm just now playing him right. Not sure if it's a graphical glitch, but his side special creates a wind line across the screen completely, maybe it suppose to be a gust of wind from behind him, but it's doesn't quite look right in my opinion it should only go from where he throws the whirlwind to its trajectory, I also wouldn't have it linger as long as it does. He is incredibly hard to gimp due to how I mentioned a lot of moves in the game are more vertical then horizontal and with the amount of jumps and options he has (jump, then air dodge, then up special or neutral special) he has little trouble coming back from the edge of the stage.


Kragg:


The heavy hitter, reminds me of Bowser a bit. As many people have mentioned his up special needs some tweaking. If he is off the edge it should probably just come up to his feet and launch him upwards and then disintegrate as I think right now it disrupts the edge game to much and actually hurts him since his move set definitely lends more towards horizontal hits then vertical. His side special is definitely a bit weird personally I would go with the brute/grappler theme and give him a super armored command grab similar to Bowser's koopa claw. Either that or maybe a charge attack with some cool down like Wario's in PM. I'm also not sure how I feel about his neutral special it feels kind of weird especially it has its uses, but I feel it's a bit slow. Also I noticed some visual glitches or oddities such as when you throw it straight up and it lands on you teleport on top of it and when trying to wave land onto it you have to be much higher than the block in order for it to work.


I'll post more as I think about it, but that my .2 cents for now.

 

[Streetwize]

Since my feedback didn't get addressed, I'll bring it up again and some more.

With Tap Jump on, pressing up and special makes the character jump and then do his special. Not that I play with Tap Jump on RoA, but I was messing around.

I noticed you can't free fall while helpless. It would make recoveries safer, but the offensive player shouldn't always be the one with the advantage. If you want to make it a little fair, you could add some landing lag to punish those who fast fall from helpless as a way to balance risk and reward.

Loving the new Zetterburn changes. My only complaint was how slow his down special was, and, while I didn't address that myself, I was glad to see fixed.

Orcane is not a character I am worried for too much. I'll give feedback on him another time.

Wrastor
-Any reason why Wrastor's up tilt is as strong as a smash? It really becomes exploitable. It's more like how long the opponent stays stunned that makes it so overpowered. It just feels weird killing my friends at early percents when they don't even fly fast. It's about as strong as Zetterburn's down smash. Also he is the only character with a tilt that can kill at relatively low percentages when he's supposed to be an aerial fighter. Keep the power, just make the opponent recover faster.
-Also, why not make Wrastor's neutral air a sexkick? It's too good as a combo linker, a combo finisher, and an edgeguard move all in one.
-His down aerial's hurtboxes look like his down smash, and this gives him priority with the attack since they're so narrow.
-Sorry for bringing up Wrastor so much, but I use him mostly when I'm not testing characters. lol

Kragg
-Since the block can be broken in one hit by Kragg, I think lowering the health a bit would allow for a bad throw to be punished. Sometimes the fun in a character is that what you use can be used against you.
-I agree that only picking it up from the above gets weird. If it were possible to shorthop on it, then I wouldn't complain as much, but he can't (even though he looks like he should).
-Still trying to think of a good idea for his pillar. It feels like he recovers slower from it for some reason.

@ Bakuryu : I find his b-air pathetic despite it being disjointed, while his n-air has much better knockback. I already discussed a lot of what you said earlier with 4nace. The game's design doesn't have the RPS triangle to make it different from SSB; it's not a flaw.
@ 4nace : I also would like to see grabs implemented, but you don't need four throws. All you need is forward and back like on 64 (and pummel maybe). If that's still too much, then I understand.

 

[4nace]

Working on some sprites tonight but I'll respond to everyone later tonight or early tomorrow morning

Thanks guys!
Dan

 

[akf09]

@ 4nace thanks for including my input on kragg D tilt. played alot of roa this week. going to update the december build before i play again. are you going to make it so moves "clink" like in smash where 2 moves collide and cancel each other out?

also some updates that my friends complained about that are relatively just user friendly changes but never the less should be included in the game:

option for random on character select and on stage select.

team attack on allways!

wrastor nair is very very weak (4%)

more options for changing controlls on the character select screen


all i can remember for now haha. also i think i am going to sumit a character design for an ice water element character soon.

 

[Xanthus]

http://rivals-of-aether.wikia.com/wiki/Rivals_of_Aether_Wiki

Updating a wiki might be a good way to keep track of stuff, and still have discussions kinda under the sections. I'll work a little more on organizing it, and then we can see if it's something people want to use.

 

[likiji123]

So i have been playing the new update for a bit
Im happy that the fire sound effects have been added

However there was one thing that has been annoying me for a bit
Wrastors FTilt, it seems to be a bit more like a Continuous Move during the A A A instead of a tilt

 

[Bakuryu]

Since my feedback didn't get addressed, I'll bring it up again and some more.

@ Bakuryu : I find his b-air pathetic despite it being disjointed, while his n-air has much better knockback. I already discussed a lot of what you said earlier with 4nace. The game's design doesn't have the RPS triangle to make it different from SSB; it's not a flaw.
@ 4nace : I also would like to see grabs implemented, but you don't need four throws. All you need is forward and back like on 64 (and pummel maybe). If that's still too much, then I understand.

I'm glad someone else feels the same way about his normals. I get that the game isn't suppose to have a carbon copy of smash in terms of its RPS system, but that fine balance of elements is what makes it a strong competitive game. Right now parry serves as a shield and dodge, if grabbing is added it needs to beat parry, but if it beats parry what beats grabs? Just attacks? Right now nothing beats parry except better timing, I think we need more time before we can truly see how powering parrying will be in the meta.

I'd argue three throws should exist really (left, right, down), but even up throws served a purpose. The idea is to have meaningful throws ones that lend to the characters skill set. Typically forward and back throws are more getting them towards the edge of throwing them off it, while up and down throws are typically combo starters depending on the character. If you had the down throws as combo starters and the other two as ways to get your opponent where you want them I think it would work pretty well and add more depth to the game and also create an answer to someone who is parrying a lot a la marth.

http://rivals-of-aether.wikia.com/wiki/Rivals_of_Aether_Wiki

Updating a wiki might be a good way to keep track of stuff, and still have discussions kinda under the sections. I'll work a little more on organizing it, and then we can see if it's something people want to use.

Just so multiple people aren't doing the same thing for it, are you adding the current feedback and dev response to them that has been posted thus far?

 

[4nace]

@ JCOnyx

Hmm gotcha. I don't have too much experience with the new GC adapter. Hopefully there is a way it can work as either Dinput or Xinput. Would have to wait until after Xmas for myself to be able to give it a shot . I have heard of people getting PS3 controllers working as Xinput (the default setting) so I know that has worked in the past.

And I use Fraps to record gameplay. If your computer is struggling to record, try to play and record in window mode instead of full screen. If you want to the game to big on your screen still, try reducing your resolution while playing.

Hmm Zetterburn damage not factoring is a bug. I'll add it to my bug list. Yeah Wrastor MIGHT still be broken. The fact that you can DI vs him more than other characters definitely helps.

@ TOGOpuff
Cool! Thanks for checking it out. Hopefully some we get some portuguese fans from your videos.

@ Hatninja

Cool thanks for the bugs. Not sure about the running slowly on your pc. Can't help too much without more specifics.
I can add a back button on stage select though. Will probably be helpful to players who need to get back. Might actually use 'back' instead of B though so players don't accidentally do it too much. You can click the stock button at 1 and 99 but it doesnt do anything right? You can move out of respawning platforms just not right away. And yeah that HUD thing is a bit jarring. Will see what I can do.

@ Puppyfaic
The reason I did NSpecial as only standing on it for now is that Kragg's options are limited when he is on it. Also the visual fits when standing on it but doesn't quite first for if it is by the side. Would have to make a new animation and I am already onto the 5th character development now. Going to hold off doing changes that take a ton of work until I know they are needed.

Yup Neutral throw into spike is sweet and dash cancelled smashes are meant to be a strength for Orcane. He is a ground based character along with Kragg

@ Xanthus
Yeah bubbles have their own damage code. They have actually always gone through the side b. I did that because orcane didnt really have anything to do against Kragg's side special. Now that he slows to a stop when hit, I could probably just have bubbles stop him just like other attacks stop him. I'll add it to my to-do list.

@ Bakuryu

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I could see a different place being better. A bug database would make for limited discussion between players though. But a forum does mean topics will repeat unless everyone reads through the pages of history.

Nope, not edge grabs planned. The wall jump definitely helps here giving you one more option for stalling or getting back at a different angle. And yeah I have noticed that all the characters except maybe Zetterburn can always make it back on stage if they don't get sent off the blast zone. I think this works pretty well because that means that edge guarding often comes into play. Spikes and just waiting for your opponent to land and then punishing them with a strong hitbox seem to be the best ways to guard an edge. You can parry up specials but they continue their momentum so can't usually be used as an edgegaurd right now.

Yeah most the deaths from the bottom of the stage happen from either gimps or spikes. You can gimp certain characters though. Kragg needs to hit ground before he can pull a wall. If you predict when he will pull it you can smack him right as he performs up special. The killing topic has been brought up before. What it comes to is that the game is designed to have moves that can kill and moves that can combo. Wrastor is designed to have to set up into his kill moves with his combo moves. This is one of the weaknesses of the character since his combo game is so strong. Also part of the reason up kills are easier is that the stages are very rectangular since the game is designed with 16:9 in mind instead of 4:3 like melee was. If you are fighting on the side of a stage, kills to the side blastzones are still effective. Forward Smashes, Zetter Down Smash. Kragg rock kills.

Grabs are most likely not going to be implemented. There are other moves that will serve the purpose of combo starters (Wrastor Down Special, Kragg Down Special). The RPS triangle has been removed. From the beginning Rivals has been designed as an offensive focused fighting game. In that way we have limited defensive options. Now the counter is a timing test. Parries require very strict timing and rolls require you to space them well in order to use them to punish someone. Parry may not have down sides but it also is hard to become reliant on because of how quick offensive tools are. I could simple retreat my aerial and not hit you then land next to you and smack you with an attack if you choose to parry. Parries are something I will be watching so they don't overcentralize high level play. Up to this point in development, they have not.

Spawning on the center of the stage makes sense. I could also likely extend the invincibility a little bit as it is quite short now.

Zburn:
It's not a meteor but does have low hitstun. No moves have meteor properties yet. One of the reasons the AI is so good at getting back from it is that the AI is frame perfect on when to recover. Players are likely to take a few more frames to get out.

Orcane:
Forward air is a very janky move but it can be used in his combo game if you can time it just right. He is also quite good at gimping even without a puddle thanks to his superior horizontal recovery with side special.

Wrastor:
Yup. As mentioned before that is meant to be part of his weakness. He can combo quite well but needs to land slow and predictable kill moves. You really have to read DI and place your kill moves where they are going to be.

Kragg:
Yeah the rock does teleport players. This is because I don't want the game to have time where you are inside the rock. Rather than pushing players out slowly, it pushes them out instantly. The side special being a grapple is interesting. Part of his design is that he can roll into a ball though (part of his visual design). I would like to use that on a Special to tie that together.

@ Streetwize
Tap Jump up special added to bugs. Will see how i can fix it.
Yeah you can't fast fall when helpless. This is to give you a bit of punish when trying to use Special moves for kills. I could see that it hurts recoveries a bit but I haven't noticed it being too overwhelming.

Wrastor:
Up tilt is strong to give him a grounded base kill. Definitely helps him get less predictable. It may seem a bit weird, but the tilt is much slower than other tilts in the game. Think of it a bit like Ganondorf's up tilt (though not that slow :D) I could reduce the hitstun on it perhaps. I wouldn't hit it much though. What would you change about his Nair? Ahh down air does have the wrong hurtbox. Thanks for pointing that out. It is a bug.

Kragg:
Hmm yeah the block has 10 HP. I could look at lowering it now since Kragg auto breaks. Maybe 8 hp is a happy place. I don't want jabs to be breaking it for sure.
Yeah I maybe ill buff his short hop slightly or give the rock a little shorthop push or something like that.

@ akf09
Don't have plans for clinking yet. (Basically ground-ground trades in Smash IIRC)
Yeah I will have a random option in game soon. Just haven't had time to script and implement yet.
You want team attack on by default? Because there is an option for it now.
All of Wrastor's aerials are weak but that is because he can combo like a fiend.
And yup. We plan to have full controller options on character select. Going to be tough with the small space we have but we are going to try

@ Xanthus
Sounds good. If I keep doing long posts here then I won't have time to update there as well, but perhaps a wiki is easier to do everything at? I've never used one for game feedback.

@ likiji123
Think of Wrastor's Forward tilt a bit like Ivysaur's in Smash Bros Brawl. A lingering multihit that is good for intercepting jumps.

@ Bakuryu
Yup Parry and Parry counters are something I have been thinking about. But I am following a game dev trick for them. If it isnt broken now, don't fix it. Parries not having a true counter is an issue on paper. I have yet to see them be an issue in a high level match. Until I see them abused and how that works, I will probably be letting them continue as is

-Dan

 

[RoA_Zam]

There already exists a type of RPS triangle in the game guys

Parry > attack
Do Nothing > Parry
Attack > do nothing

When I say do nothing, I mean be patient. Smash games are not always about blindly throwing out attacks constantly and hoping they connect or that they combo into another. There is also an element of defensiveness to any fighting game, and in this game it's just avoiding attacks and doing nothing in my opinion. Dan limits what you can do to combat attacks so that it can't be played as a really campy Jigglypuff in melee style game. I feel like grabs aren't yet important to add, and when they do get added, people will only complain about chaingrabs and guaranteed setups at any percent over and over.

 

[akf09]

@ 4nace
yes team attack on by default! haha and cool i will check it out.
also what element are your working on? ehhhhh?

 

[akf09]

There already exists a type of RPS triangle in the game guys

Parry > attack
Do Nothing > Parry
Attack > do nothing

When I say do nothing, I mean be patient. Smash games are not always about blindly throwing out attacks constantly and hoping they connect or that they combo into another. There is also an element of defensiveness to any fighting game, and in this game it's just avoiding attacks and doing nothing in my opinion. Dan limits what you can do to combat attacks so that it can't be played as a really campy Jigglypuff in melee style game. I feel like grabs aren't yet important to add, and when they do get added, people will only complain about chaingrabs and guaranteed setups at any percent over and over.

yes i dont want grabs in. they an overly safe option and in smash they often result in 1 player chain grabbing you while you attempt to DI out of it and its gross in my opinion

 

[arcticfox8]

Grabbing =/= Chaingrabbing

 

[4nace]

@ 4nace
yes team attack on by default! haha and cool i will check it out.
also what element are your working on? ehhhhh?

I am working on a character who is a variation on fire. Won't say exactly what just yet, but the moveset will hopefully be unique (especially compared to Zetterburn who is very straight forward)

-Dan

 

[akf09]

ah cool thanks for the info how long do you think before that character will be in the alpha build?

 

[Streetwize]

@ 4nace : What I would do is make Wrastor's N-air a sexkick by adding a slightly weaker hitbox after a few frames. This would make the move still good yet some require timing to be most effective. It doesn't have to be strict, but I'd rather reward players for not simply pulling out the move.
I tested 10 HP myself for the block and 8 HP was going to be my suggestion. You read my mind, good sir.
I'll try to get used to the inability to free-fall, but it just feels weird.

 

[4nace]

@ 4nace : What I would do is make Wrastor's N-air a sexkick by adding a slightly weaker hitbox after a few frames. This would make the move still good yet some require timing to be most effective. It doesn't have to be strict, but I'd rather reward players for not simply pulling out the move.
I tested 10 HP myself for the block and 8 HP was going to be my suggestion. You read my mind, good sir.
I'll try to get used to the inability to free-fall, but it just feels weird.

Ahh good call. Forgot I never implemented 2 hitboxes for that move. Just one lingering one. I'll put it on my to-do list for sure.

-Dan

 

[Bakuryu]

There already exists a type of RPS triangle in the game guys

Parry > attack
Do Nothing > Parry
Attack > do nothing

When I say do nothing, I mean be patient. Smash games are not always about blindly throwing out attacks constantly and hoping they connect or that they combo into another. There is also an element of defensiveness to any fighting game, and in this game it's just avoiding attacks and doing nothing in my opinion. Dan limits what you can do to combat attacks so that it can't be played as a really campy Jigglypuff in melee style game. I feel like grabs aren't yet important to add, and when they do get added, people will only complain about chaingrabs and guaranteed setups at any percent over and over.

Doing nothing does not beat parrying, it does what it says it does, nothing. In smash what players do when they aren't hitting each other they are spacing and playing footsie games and finally they are poking. Poking is an important part of the game as you must space yourself correctly as to not become vulnerable, jiggly puff aside most characters can't poke quickly and as safely as her so she is a bad example really. Poking makes it so you don't have to rush in blindly with an attack and shields and shield stun enable that to happen relatively safely unless they missed spaced their attack or the person dodged it entirely, but even then if done right its hard to punish. With parry, hard as it might be to do right now, if perfected at high level of play would make poking dangerous and outright not a good option, this if anything would lead to more campy behavior as the player now has to find a different different way in unless they want to jump in an hope they get lucky.

Btw not sure if this is just with Orcane, but I feel like trying to consistently do bairs or running pairs to be a real pain and I'm not sure why, seems my direction is changing when I don't expect it to and I keep getting fairs or dash attacks.

 

[Captain Yoshi]

This game looks very competitive which is what I love in a fighting game. I hope you have some more techniques carried over from Melee. I saw a video of Wrastor wavedashing which is cool.

 

[Hatninja]

@ 4nace
Well, on the speed issue. After some more playing, it's pretty weird. It sometimes runs pretty fast, and sometimes slower. I'm gonna play some more to see what the issue is.
And for the stock counter, i meant the buttons used for incrementing or decrementing the number of stocks.
Finally, for platforms. I mean while the platform is there, you can't move out of it. It stays still in the air, so it feels like i should be able to move out of it.

 

[likiji123]

When ever i try to play this on my laptop, it opens but it just stays on a white screen
can someone help?

 

[Bakuryu]

@ Bakuryu


Yeah most the deaths from the bottom of the stage happen from either gimps or spikes. You can gimp certain characters though. Kragg needs to hit ground before he can pull a wall. If you predict when he will pull it you can smack him right as he performs up special. The killing topic has been brought up before. What it comes to is that the game is designed to have moves that can kill and moves that can combo. Wrastor is designed to have to set up into his kill moves with his combo moves. This is one of the weaknesses of the character since his combo game is so strong. Also part of the reason up kills are easier is that the stages are very rectangular since the game is designed with 16:9 in mind instead of 4:3 like melee was. If you are fighting on the side of a stage, kills to the side blastzones are still effective. Forward Smashes, Zetter Down Smash. Kragg rock kills.

My only concern with specific kill moves is it possibly limiting a player to create there own style. Falco for example may have players who focus solely on his laser game to get in, while others with use his drill shine pressure and nairs to go in. It also enables combos to be more on the fly when you know you don't always have to end it in specific ways, I think the way it is now isn't bad I just hope we don't see optimal kill combos that everyone is always going to look for and use no matter what the situation, combos are more interesting when they are based on reads and not on what leads into what.

@ Bakuryu
Grabs are most likely not going to be implemented. There are other moves that will serve the purpose of combo starters (Wrastor Down Special, Kragg Down Special). The RPS triangle has been removed. From the beginning Rivals has been designed as an offensive focused fighting game. In that way we have limited defensive options. Now the counter is a timing test. Parries require very strict timing and rolls require you to space them well in order to use them to punish someone. Parry may not have down sides but it also is hard to become reliant on because of how quick offensive tools are. I could simple retreat my aerial and not hit you then land next to you and smack you with an attack if you choose to parry. Parries are something I will be watching so they don't overcentralize high level play. Up to this point in development, they have not.

I mentioned in my previous post that retreating aerial is a risk because if they happen to move close to you and parry it your at a disadvantage making pokes less useful, but time will tell I guess.

@ Bakuryu

Zburn:
It's not a meteor but does have low hitstun. No moves have meteor properties yet. One of the reasons the AI is so good at getting back from it is that the AI is frame perfect on when to recover. Players are likely to take a few more frames to get out.

Orcane:
Forward air is a very janky move but it can be used in his combo game if you can time it just right. He is also quite good at gimping even without a puddle thanks to his superior horizontal recovery with side special.

Kragg:
Yeah the rock does teleport players. This is because I don't want the game to have time where you are inside the rock. Rather than pushing players out slowly, it pushes them out instantly. The side special being a grapple is interesting. Part of his design is that he can roll into a ball though (part of his visual design). I would like to use that on a Special to tie that together.

-Dan

Zburn: So its suppose to be a spike? Isn't a spike suppose to be a guaranteed kill?

Orcane: Is his side special send player down like Falco? I haven't tried that yet, mainly because I rarely have the person below me off the edge.

Kragg: Wouldn't it better if it just was pushed to the left or right of him instead? Also a way to make the current animation a grab like attack is have him jump forward in ball form landing on top of them then grind them (spin in place with spikes out) before sending them flying/away. Kinda like Diddy Kong in a way.

 

[RoA_Zam]

When ever i try to play this on my laptop, it opens but it just stays on a white screen
can someone help?

What kind of laptop specs do you have?
I'm running it on a win8 Dell with intel core i7 with no problems whatsoever.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Also I don't know how intentional it is to do this but when each character goes above 100% there's that thick black outline above them. Is this just a testing thing for alpha or what? because it looks super ugly in-game.

And one problem my friend pointed out: stocks

While playing, you kind of have to look far away from the actual match to see how many stocks you have. It's just enough out of your way to where you could be playing comfortably and not realize you only have one stock left. Perhaps you could implement something into the glow around when a character respawns to show green for 4+ stocks left, yellow for 3 stocks left, orange for 2 stocks left, and red for your last stock? That way people don't have to look all the way to the bottom for the small icon for stock number left.