Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[theopenlink22]

Maypul's Jab needs to be buffed. 4% no finisher... It is kind of laughable, even with the fire nation wall trap. Also, side special just seems... Unoriginal and kind of useless. I don't mean any offense I just am saying this for advice, it has short range and is a dash forward. I think maybe something implementing the seed mechanic would be a lot better. Also, what does the lvl.2 form of the Down Special do? I see very minor extra trap time, in general the down special seems weak. You need to seed the opponent for it to work and it holds them for a very short time. Same with the lvl.2 form. I feel like a buff in those things is necessary, and a better seed using side special. Just some friendly advice. I guess like if you feel the same way about Maypul.

 

[Shrooms2090]

I saw that if there is a wrastor ditto, side b will work for the opponent as well.

 

[Big Papi]

Maypul's Jab needs to be buffed. 4% no finisher... It is kind of laughable, even with the fire nation wall trap. Also, side special just seems... Unoriginal and kind of useless. I don't mean any offense I just am saying this for advice, it has short range and is a dash forward. I think maybe something implementing the seed mechanic would be a lot better. Also, what does the lvl.2 form of the Down Special do? I see very minor extra trap time, in general the down special seems weak. You need to seed the opponent for it to work and it holds them for a very short time. Same with the lvl.2 form. I feel like a buff in those things is necessary, and a better seed using side special. Just some friendly advice. I guess like if you feel the same way about Maypul.

The plant?? When it is bigger/fed/lvl2, it stays on the battlefield until it traps someone. While the smaller dies away after a short time.

Also trap time depends on their percent.

 

[Xanthus]

Next weekend I'll be hosting another event at MillionManLan! (www.lanwar.com) This time I should have a stream setup. I'm pretty sure I'll be running it alongside the Smash4 tournament which is at 9pm on Saturday. If I stream friendlies at other times, I'll post here to let ya'll know!

www.twitch.tv/xanthus1

 

[Streetwize]

Also. You can wall jump out when in free fall which puts you into non freefall which means free recovery.
BTW How many FPS is this game?

That is intentional. You can only walljump once per airtime unless you get hit. We were just talking about that a page ago or so. Also, this game runs at 60FPS,

 

[VROOM99]

Something I noticed when I was looking at hitboxes is Forsburn's down special doesn't show the knockback angles. The knockback angle looks like it's whatever position relative to Forsburn aka all possible angles, but yeah as I said, needs knockback angles if possible.

 

[N00ne]

Maypul's up air can definitely NOT kill at 40% against an opponent with proper DI any more. Unless of course you are right next to the top and that's fine.

Play experience against CPU's is VASTLY different than against experienced HUM's.

Also, Maypul strong attacks are definitely still plenty strong and great for grabbing kills.

Maypul right now feels very right to me beyond the glitch on her seeds where they stun jumping opponents/wavedashers. She has a tough time killing but deserves to with all of her advantages and her speed and combo ability + gimping is more than enough to make up the difference.

Late response, but:
I do mean Maypul being right next to the top, and my argument was that it was really easy to set up with nothing more than an up-tilt or dash attack. You are right that the CPU's aren't that smart, but they do DI away and make an effort to avoid it. I'm currently talking with a local game store to host an event. I think once I get this set up my opinions will change a bit, but at the moment this is my opinion.

 

[Steel Banana]

Something I noticed when I was looking at hitboxes is Forsburn's down special doesn't show the knockback angles. The knockback angle looks like it's whatever position relative to Forsburn aka all possible angles, but yeah as I said, needs knockback angles if possible.

It sends away from the center, so no arrow would accurately describe it

 

[RoA_Zam]

It sends away from the center, so no arrow would accurately describe it

@ VROOM99 zetterburns neutral B and kragg's rock are the same way in that the knockback depends on which angle you hit the opponent from. No one angle would accurately depict it and having a call for an angle on hit confirm wouldn't really be practical at all.

 

[VROOM99]

Alright just making sure it wasn't an issue.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

Hmm... I guess i kind of agree that Maypul's towards-B is a bit boring. It's just such a 'classic' smash move to rush forward with a hit box on your character... like, Ike did it, fox did it, Falco did it, wolf did it as did like a huge amount of the rest of the cast in every game if you include minor variations like Luigi and Pikachu towards-B etc...

I agree that Maypul might be more interesting with a different towards-B... added to my thought that Maypul's dash attack is often functionally similar on the ground and I'm not sure she needs the extra aggression from the air any way.

Also, it's easy enough to tag with seeds so it's not like towards-b 'has' to mark or is an irreplaceable part of her repertoire.

So yeah, I agree Maypul towards-B could stand to be changed although it's not a *problem* or any thing if it weren't.

 

[Big Papi]

Playing with the bros again for a little bit.
Twitch /phrez_smasher

Edit: just finished up. Thanks guys.

 

[theopenlink22]

Glitch found. If a forsburn clone is seeded and hit with a strong attack, it doesn't die.
Also, a difficulty meter on bots would be nice!

 

[RoA_Zam]

For one of my new videos going on the Rivals of Aether hub, I want to do a AMA with recorded responses to go up, and possibly make it a series of videos if I get enough feedback/questions from the viewers.

I want you all to ask me any questions you can about the game. They can be as general or as specific as you want, but I will answer them all to the full extent of my knowledge!

Ask Away!

You all have until July 12th at 11:59PM to ask questions that will go in the first video, BTW.

 

[Death By Hugs]

Sorry for inactivity, I was on vacation for a few days.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

Trying to start a weekly tournament series in DFW texas.
Can anyone help provide computer setups? I can provide the game, adapters, all of the software and a venue and everything else. I just need computers. Anyone in the area able and willing to help?

 

[theopenlink22]

Zetterburn! Do you intend to apply nerfs/buffs after the game is released? To characters if maybe something is off balance?
Found Glitch again: Sometimes rarely Forsburns smoke will not register an actual sprite (The smoke will be there, so you can down special it but not physically there.) Also with about 13+ smoke clouds up, game lags considerably. Its definitely not my computer either. Then there is the glitch I posted above where if a seeded forsburn clone is hit with a smash attack, it wont die. IT will get wrapped up but it won't disappear, because the point of the clone is that it gets hit once its dead.

 

[Binsou]

Found a bug where Forsburn isn't generating smoke. The neutral special doesn't do it and the clone's death doesn't do it. I'm playing 4 stock random char against a cpu of random character and got the grey Forsburn color against a blue Zetter burn on the earth stage (the one with two pillars), which I also randomed onto.

 

[Sol_Vent]

I'm not a playtester for the current build, but I had a random idea about Maypul. What do you guys think about the idea of a wrapped-up character still being pulled down by gravity during the effect?

Most of the time it wouldn't matter, but I thought about it after seeing the way up smash with the Mark usually just leads into another usmash, which seems a bit repetitive and pointless considering that the first usmash would have likely killed anyway in most situations.

Though I suppose it could be awkward when it comes to hitting an offstage opponent with fsmash. Honestly, that seems like an exciting situation to me, but I can't claim to know a lot about how it would work when I've never actually played as Maypul.

Anyway, just throwing some thoughts out there. I could talk more about this, but I don't think I'd have any conclusions you couldn't just reach on your own if you're already playing the character. I'm not tremendously attached to this idea either, so if it's dumb just let me be dumb. It's not a crime.

 

[someonetookjacob]

Just to say a bit about some of the suggested changes to Maypul. In my opinion her jab is fine, you can give it a finisher yourself by doing jab jab ftilt, or jab seed is definitely a thing. And You can also jab side-b and follow up creatively depending on DI. So all things considered it offers several options. Plus she probably doesnt need any buffs... and its not like one character having a weaker jab than the rest of the cast is a bad thing. Someone hast to have the weakest jab, and Maypul is pretty strong.

As for side-b. It is a pretty important part of balancing her recovery right now. Its short to make sure her recovery is bad when she is offstage, but she still has options. So I am not sure buffing it's range or changing it completely would be a good idea. As for on stage you can kind of combo out of it. If you get their DI direction right and f-tilt its pretty good. You can also get a n-air in there if you are quick. Though I dont think either of those are fast enough to be true combos. But it can be used as a bit of a different option than the dash attack. You are right its not original though. But I think its such an important part of her recovery it cant be changed... So yeah... I guess I like how it is now. (Plus its symmetry with aerial down-b is nice.) but if you have any suggestions on how to change it to a different move that could still offer a short horizontal recovery option I would be interested to hear it.

As for the clone getting wrapped up. I am not sure thats a glitch. I think it is knockback that destroys the clone, and being wrapped up does indeed not deal any knockback, So I think the game is behaving as it should. Whether or not that is a good thing for balance is a question though. Personally I think it makes the Forseburn-Maypul match up a bit more interesting and different. Unlike most of the time, Maypul can't just assume the wrapped up thing is her target and d-smash, and unlike most vs FB matchups you cant just throw out your fastest safest move (seeds for maypul) and feel confident your hit that didnt make a poof of smoke hit the true FB. I think its interesting. It does clearly help FB though, so If FB or Maypul mains think it throws the match up way out of balance its clearly a bad thing. I doubt that is the case but I dont main either, so I could be wrong. (I think I recall people saying the matchup was really hard for FB?)

EDIT: One more thing about the plant. It is true it only wraps them up for a short time. What I have found is it must be used much more deliberately. You shouldnt react to people running into it then try to hit them, you need to see they are going to run into it and then use the moment to start a combo or have already started a strong attack charge. It works well to limit recovery options. Often you can also knock people into it with f-tilts low angle direction then use it to continue your combo with a d-air or something else. Its definitely not a free hit or anything, but I think thats good. It will probably be terrifying in the hands of better players the way it is already.

 

[Streetwize]

Zetterburn! Do you intend to apply nerfs/buffs after the game is released? To characters if maybe something is off balance?

Might as well answer this. Zetterburn is not the developer of the game. He's just a tester in very close contact. The guy you're thinking of is 4nace.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Might as well answer this. Zetterburn is not the developer of the game. He's just a tester in very close contact. The guy you're thinking of is 4nace.

Jesus I dont need to be Dan to answer questions lmao. Dan even said that himself Street

I've already got an answer to his Q anyways.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

Okay, so after playing a lot more Kragg my play group is starting to agree that he seems a bit weak, especially in the face of Maypul because her speed makes his life so difficult.

I think the primary problem for Kragg is that his moves can be used against him and others moves cannot be used against them to nearly the same degree.

Kragg can have be zoned away from his block and lose access to his rock throw move completely, he can have his rock easily parried and unless he parries it back (requires you to predict their parry... whereas they can just parry the rock on reaciton) it is devastating for him. His opponent can break his rock to keep pressure on him if he's not extremely careful about where he places it.

To make matters worse, if Kragg gets hit while he is taking his rock out he gets demolished, often dying to punish.

The rock is strong, very strong... but I don't think it's strong enough to justify all of these disadvantages. Wrastor's wind tunnel can't be used against him in the same way, Zburns fire balls can't either, same goes for Maypul. If Kragg's rock was overall much better than those moves I think it could justify the disadvantages it comes with but the truth is that Kragg's rock really isn't any better than Zburn's fireballs or Maypuls seeds. The individual rock is stronger but as a move, considering how often it can be used... i'd say they are about even in terms of power.

The rock is so central to Kragg's gameplay and so easy to disrupt and punish it just doesn't really seem fair.

 

[4nace]

@ C Chuck Tatum

Hmm interesting feedback on the rock. I do think it is one of the strongest projectiles in the game, but where it is now compared to where it was in Kragg's first build is pretty different. (It's been nerfed in multiple ways) That's because the rock was such a pain to deal with. I don't want Kragg using it as a crutch. That's not fun to watch or fight against a spammy Kragg. However, I do want it to feel strong as the special is core to his moveset.

I can say right now that Kragg struggles against parries. This much is clear. I'm not sure if giving him an unparry-able move is wise but I have tossed around the thought of making Down Special not able to be parried. I have also thought about what other options he could have and what could be sped up to help against opponents who have their parry timing down. Still haven't landed on something solid that sticks to the character design.

@ someonetookjacob

Yup agreed on a lot of your stuff. The clone not being broken is indeed a bug due to the exact reason you state. Was tracking knockback hitstun only not stationary hitstun. I actually just fixed that tonight. That being said, we have some ideas for changing up the Forsburn clone that we are looking at. I'm still not 100% into its design in terms of deception and combo potential.


Also I found a bug causing crashes with Maypul in the previous update. I have uploaded a fix today that playtesters can redownload by visiting the same link. It has these changes from last time:

• Fixed bug with Maypul seeds causing a crash in matches with 3+ players. (Animation division by 0)
• Fixed bug where Forsburn clone was getting wrapped instead of destroyed.
• Lowered Maypul seed damage from 2 -> 1. Nerf them seeds!

Also sorry I have been a bit afk from the boards. We have been making a ton of progress behind the scenes. Here are some of the highlights from the past 2 weeks:

• We got greenlit in 5 days. It was crazy. Thanks a ton for all the support and sharing our tweet / greenlight page. We are looking into the Steam process now.
• Tons of Online progress has been made. I have been playing matches against Ryan. No more desyncs in any matchup at the moment! Online is looking like 1v1 initially. We can add 2v2 support with 2 local vs 2 more local but because of lag concerns we might only support 2 pc/consoles hooked up. We'll have more information on that later.
• Online menu progress has begun. You can use custom controls, player tags, and colors in online matches now (was just basic stuff before)
• Char 7 is playable and in polish stages. I have been playing as 7 a good amount to figure out combo potential.
• Char 8 is through concept/design stages. We are in animation stage. Ellian is really knocking this one out of the park. His work on Char 7 is pretty amazing too.
• We got rejected from the EVO 2015 Indie Showcase sadly. They are full up on games . I will NOT be attending EVO now. Too expensive to go to just hang out. However, I am trying to organize a Rivals of Aether invitational as a side event. If any playtesters are attending EVO this year then please message me (@danfornace) and @AZProjectMelee on twitter or reply to this thread and let me know if you would be interested in being on the list / list of substitutes for the invitational.
• Trevor has been working on single player content. It's going really well. Lots to do though and he has been creating some fun stuff that I'm sure players will enjoy later this year.
• We are gearing up for Super Smash Con. If you are attending, we are planning to be there with a booth showing Rivals. We also hope to do a side tournament. Hopefully we'll have a bit of swag for winners / fans as well. If you want to get insider information on Rivals development then plan to be there in August.

That's all for now. I'll drop in and share some more information as we get it.

-Dan

 

[Big Papi]

@ C Chuck Tatum

Hmm interesting feedback on the rock. I do think it is one of the strongest projectiles in the game, but where it is now compared to where it was in Kragg's first build is pretty different. (It's been nerfed in multiple ways) That's because the rock was such a pain to deal with. I don't want Kragg using it as a crutch. That's not fun to watch or fight against a spammy Kragg. However, I do want it to feel strong as the special is core to his moveset.

I can say right now that Kragg struggles against parries. This much is clear. I'm not sure if giving him an unparry-able move is wise but I have tossed around the thought of making Down Special not able to be parried. I have also thought about what other options he could have and what could be sped up to help against opponents who have their parry timing down. Still haven't landed on something solid that sticks to the character design.

@ someonetookjacob

Yup agreed on a lot of your stuff. The clone not being broken is indeed a bug due to the exact reason you state. Was tracking knockback hitstun only not stationary hitstun. I actually just fixed that tonight. That being said, we have some ideas for changing up the Forsburn clone that we are looking at. I'm still not 100% into its design in terms of deception and combo potential.


Also I found a bug causing crashes with Maypul in the previous update. I have uploaded a fix today that playtesters can redownload by visiting the same link. It has these changes from last time:

• Fixed bug with Maypul seeds causing a crash in matches with 3+ players. (Animation division by 0)
• Fixed bug where Forsburn clone was getting wrapped instead of destroyed.
• Lowered Maypul seed damage from 2 -> 1. Nerf them seeds!

Also sorry I have been a bit afk from the boards. We have been making a ton of progress behind the scenes. Here are some of the highlights from the past 2 weeks:

• We got greenlit in 5 days. It was crazy. Thanks a ton for all the support and sharing our tweet / greenlight page. We are looking into the Steam process now.
• Tons of Online progress has been made. I have been playing matches against Ryan. No more desyncs in any matchup at the moment! Online is looking like 1v1 initially. We can add 2v2 support with 2 local vs 2 more local but because of lag concerns we might only support 2 pc/consoles hooked up. We'll have more information on that later.
• Online menu progress has begun. You can use custom controls, player tags, and colors in online matches now (was just basic stuff before)
• Char 7 is playable and in polish stages. I have been playing as 7 a good amount to figure out combo potential.
• Char 8 is through concept/design stages. We are in animation stage. Ellian is really knocking this one out of the park. His work on Char 7 is pretty amazing too.
• We got rejected from the EVO 2015 Indie Showcase sadly. They are full up on games . I will NOT be attending EVO now. Too expensive to go to just hang out. However, I am trying to organize a Rivals of Aether invitational as a side event. If any playtesters are attending EVO this year then please message me (@danfornace) and @AZProjectMelee on twitter or reply to this thread and let me know if you would be interested in being on the list / list of substitutes for the invitational.
• Trevor has been working on single player content. It's going really well. Lots to do though and he has been creating some fun stuff that I'm sure players will enjoy later this year.
• We are gearing up for Super Smash Con. If you are attending, we are planning to be there with a booth showing Rivals. We also hope to do a side tournament. Hopefully we'll have a bit of swag for winners / fans as well. If you want to get insider information on Rivals development then plan to be there in August.

That's all for now. I'll drop in and share some more information as we get it.

-Dan

I'm sure nobody minds your inactivity if it means higher quantity/quality of content for us. ;D I am really rooting for this game's success.

Quick question for ya: has this game ever been brought to Xanadu weeklies? I was thinking about bringing RoA there after I'm done with summer classes.

Side note: really looking forward to the booth and meeting you at SmashCon!

 

[Death By Hugs]

Hey, Dan. Sorry I've been inactive lately. I went on vacation and am now having internet problems. Will try to give feedback when I can.

As for Forsburn's clone, I think he should attack, but not give any damage or knockback. He would in similar pattens to the players, so it's not obvious he's a clone. He would be able to take a few hits before disapearing.

As far as Maypul's seeds, you could make it so only the plant creature could trap opponents, but would trap for 2 or 3 seconds. I think the only overpowered thing about the seeds right now it the stun from a smash attack.

I also figured out you can "wobble" at about 150%. (1.seed into side smash. 2.while trapped, seed into side smash again. Keep repeating step two until the opponent quits smash forever.)

EDIT: Can't make it to most tournaments because of my location.

 

[N00ne]

(Important update stuff)
-Dan

Wow, you've been hard at work! Glad to see you're improving the Forsburn clone AI, I've been wondering if I would be better at the character if the AI could pick up my slack. With the online portion, how did you get custom colors to work online? That's quite impressive. Keep up the good work!

 

[zman804]

I want to bold something he said.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO EVO AND WOULD LIKE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE ROA SIDE EVENT, PLEASE CONACT ME, AZPROJECTMELEE OR DAN THROUGH SOME SITE. We're looking for people to show off what the game can do.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

Sooooo tempting to go to EVO just for this... I need money in my life.

 

[Xtreme Dragon]

Hey, this project is looking amazing! Definitely going to buy on day 1.

 

[Wobz]

@EverythingSmash
Thanks for spreading the word. I'm sure a little more publicity won't hurt . Perhaps we can work together for a combo vid or something in the future!

@greenluigiman2
Yup. That is a safe assumption. Although they may not be directly the same. Think Ice vs Water.

@TheSqushiestManatee
Wolf was my main in brawl so you might see some similarities there :D. Also play him a bit in PM. It will be so many ps. Im think 4K is the only way to really experience it

@ZackTheGreat
GM:Studio is the bee's knees nowadays. And yeah I'll check your email in a bit. Just a heads up to everyone who applied, I am going to be travelling to EVO, but after that is over next week, I'll go through applications and look for people to send a two character build to.

@XLIFE
Haven't announced any platforms yet, but we are interested in consoles since the game is being designed as a controller based game.

@ Xanthus
Glad to see we had some people waiting around since Super Smash Land. It was a blast working on that game, and this one is going to be way better!

@DA12inch TONY
Most likely no direct cross-play. We'll see if I can get any multiplayer at all smooth enough to ship. If so, then chances are it will only be on one platform.

Thanks guys!

Are playtester applications closed?

 

[Wobz]

Jesus I dont need to be Dan to answer questions lmao. Dan even said that himself Street

I've already got an answer to his Q anyways.

Sorry for the double post
Zetterburn do you know if playtester applications are still open?
I emailed Dan a couple days ago, I understand he's busy. I just don't know if playtester applications are open or not xD

 

[someonetookjacob]

Sorry for the double post
Zetterburn do you know if playtester applications are still open?
I emailed Dan a couple days ago, I understand he's busy. I just don't know if playtester applications are open or not xD

Probably closed, yeah. There will hopefully be an open beta late in the summer though! Dan had previously said if you didnt make it into the most recent playtest that would be your best hope. So you have that to look forward too!

 

[N00ne]

This is the last time I'm going to put promotion for my twitch here: http://www.twitch.tv/n00neroa
I plan is that my streams will alternate each week between RoA and other games (Roa, other game, Roa, etc.). My stream will be every Wednesday between 6PM-9PM EST. Decided to share this because in this stream I will be talking about running Rivals of Aether on Mac, it's limitations, and why I'm doing it that way in the first place. Please come if you would like a live demonstration of certain parts of the game!

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

@ N00ne , I'd like to talk to you a bit about getting mac setups working. Can you use something similar to x360ce to make dinput controllers work?

 

[Smog]

Any idea if this will be able to work on linux?

 

[CaptainCrisb]

Any idea if this will be able to work on linux?

At the moment, no. But in the future, most likely

 

[RoA_Zam]

Friendly reminder that my character has one of the coolest sprites in the entire game.

 

[ZaoMonichi]

Kragg has the coolest sprites


nah but for real Kragg isn't really underpowered. The only thing holding him back is lack of a Down-B in the air, which I believe I've addressed to Clay and Dan.

 

[someonetookjacob]

Kragg has the coolest sprites


nah but for real Kragg isn't really underpowered. The only thing holding him back is lack of a Down-B in the air, which I believe I've addressed to Clay and Dan.

Was there a suggestion to fix it? or of what it could do in the air? It had never occurred to me how missing that was. Zetter and Maypul's d-special moves do have aerial variants. To some extent even wrastor and orcane do. Why doesnt Kragg?

I could see it working with just the big spike coming up right below him. Its kind of alot like maypul's d-air but it could be fun.

More on the topic of Kragg. I page or two ago someone (not me... I dont remember who) was complaining about how hard it is to use Kragg's side-b against people who know how to parry and punish it. I thought of a... fun way to help that. What if hitting your own rock was the same as hitting a person, and you got to jump out of it after. It wouldnt be that easy to set up, and your opponent could brake your rock and deny it from you. But it offers an interesting set up option and maybe a safer way to get to and destroy your rock. It also adds one more thing the opponent hast to think about while dealing with side-b, which while minor probably helps it a little. Mostly I just think its fun. But it doesnt seem to good either, So I like the idea alot.