Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[Steel Banana]

Trust me, People who use orcane more often use side-b. It is quite good as a recovery if you can get a wall jump in. I usually try to use the side-b over the up b to recover, You can also sometimes be a little tricky and side b to the wall to draw them away from your puddle and towards the ledge, then wall jump and up b. Side b is great. I still dont think orcanes recovery is too ridiculous. But it is certainly functional. Better than zetter's and maybe Kraggs, worse than Forsburn and Wrastor's. (Forsburn can do smoke stalling things and send a clone recovery in to mix up and avoid edge guards. I havent practiced it much but I think its tricky enough that he will be hard to edge guard at higher levels.)

As a Forsburn main, I definitely agree that he has one of the best recoveries in the game. If the opponent is aggressive enough, he can be stopped but he has so many mixups/stalls that its pretty hard to effectively edgeguard him without making a good read.

I love Forsburn :3

If you miss a tech, you don't go into the prone animation, but simply bounce up or slide on the ground depending on the angle of impact. Thus, you can't jab reset. I *think* there's RARing, but don't quote me on that. You can't jump-cancel moves out of dash, but you can do something better -- use all four strong/smash attacks out of dash.


Oh, that's annoying. I think that Wrastor doesn't need another nerf. I loved the options that being able to jump-cancel provided. Still, it's a pretty good idea.

Speaking of Wrastor, do you think that the ability to throw another tornado while a jet stream is already out on the field would be good? I think that as long as the tornado didn't produce a second jet stream, and you'd only be limited to one tornado onscreen, then it'd be a needed improvement. That's just my opinion though.

I also think that Wrastor can't really combo that well. I dunno if it's just me, but I feel like his moves don't have enough hit stun, leading to opponents escaping his grasp easily. I think that Kragg has a similar problem. Once again, this is just my crappy opinion.

There is RARing for sure.

If you've ever seen Sethlon's Wrastor combo someone, you'd have a different opinion on his combo abilities lol. Also, Kragg combos can be extremely powerful as well, provided you know how to follow up on specific moves.

 

[jhunter_d]

As a Forsburn main, I definitely agree that he has one of the best recoveries in the game. If the opponent is aggressive enough, he can be stopped but he has so many mixups/stalls that its pretty hard to effectively edgeguard him without making a good read.

I love Forsburn :3



There is RARing for sure.

If you've ever seen Sethlon's Wrastor combo someone, you'd have a different opinion on his combo abilities lol. Also, Kragg combos can be extremely powerful as well, provided you know how to follow up on specific moves.

Oh, I haven't watched Sethlon play. It makes sense that he'd go Wrastor, what with his similarities to Roy.

 

[piscaso]

For the email application the subject line is "Playtester Application - [INSERT TAG HERE]" right?

 

[jhunter_d]

For the email application the subject line is "Playtester Application - [INSERT TAG HERE]" right?

Yeppers!

 

[FDMajora]

I just want to say that no matter what angle you are looking at this from, I believe that this game should be playable without a controller, and only using a keyboard. This way people who get the game but dont have the money to buy a controller or are unable can still play.

 

[steak4prez]

I also think that Wrastor can't really combo that well.

Bro

EDIT: Streaming Wrastor practice at 3:50 PM CST for a little while, no mic today since running dishwasher + laundry = OP noise

EDIT2: Thanks to everybody who came by, extra special thanks to all who followed! :-)

 

[Cirby64]

I just want to say that no matter what angle you are looking at this from, I believe that this game should be playable without a controller, and only using a keyboard. This way people who get the game but dont have the money to buy a controller or are unable can still play.

There will be keyboard controls. Just it's very similar to other fighting games that if you aren't using a controller, you are at a severe disadvantage.

 

[jhunter_d]

Bro

EDIT: Streaming Wrastor practice at 3:50 PM CST for a little while, no mic today since running dishwasher + laundry = OP noise

I guess now I'll be able to see if you can make me take back my statement about Wrastor. I'll be watching!

EDIT: I think that a good idea for Wrastor would be to make his non-sweetspot up-b a bit more powerful. Right now, it seems somewhat hit-or-miss, but I think that'd be remedied by adding a bit more knockback and possibly damage to the non-sweetspot hit.

 

[FunctionFn]

Everyone seems to be super sleeping on Kragg. I made my piece about Pillar Camping a while back, but after more play, it's still super strong. Of course you can airdodge away and everything, Kragg can read that and double jump above where you're going to airdodge and pillar you anyways. And he has no trouble comboing to death, even with decent DI.

Forsburn and maybe even Wrastor are below his effectiveness imo.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

Have to agree, I am not convinced Kragg is weak by any means at all.But it's really hard to say because the majority of the community (including me) has probably not even scratched the surface of the strongest mixups and techniques available. That's why I would really like to see match videos from other players leveraging their strengths against Kragg and demonstrating why those situations are difficult to deal with.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

Copacetic, the long awaited and finally made combo video courtesy of AbsoluteBlack and Dobbert.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

Hey we stumbled across a glitch that causes Forsburn to become invincible. I think it was caused by a clash or a parry... sorry I can't be more specific we were unable to reproduce it.

For a while we just thought the Forsburn player was narrowly avoiding every thing but then we realized... nope... completely invincible, also unaffected by Zburn fire patch. Frrsburn appeared to still block character movement and was also perfectly capable of landing attacks of his own.

 

[steak4prez]

After my stream I went ahead and tried to figure the custom color palette thing out. Trying to make a pink Wrastor that doesn't blind me in-game

Not sure how satisfied I am with it just yet, but I think I'm going to start on orange next :O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cjCnh-k1Ow

Great stuff! Those Orcane combos were gross...
Also, the end of that video, lol

 

[jhunter_d]

Have to agree, I am not convinced Kragg is weak by any means at all.But it's really hard to say because the majority of the community (including me) has probably not even scratched the surface of the strongest mixups and techniques available. That's why I would really like to see match videos from other players leveraging their strengths against Kragg and demonstrating why those situations are difficult to deal with.

Something that would really make Kragg effective but not OP IMO would be the ability to pick up blocks from his own pillar. This allows Kragg to utilize his moveset more while not being too crazy.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

Something that would really make Kragg effective but not OP IMO would be the ability to pick up blocks from his own pillar. This allows Kragg to utilize his moveset more while not being too crazy.

He used to be able to do that and it was removed. The thought being that combined with his spin roll attack the ability to pull blocks off of pillar made his recovery almost unstoppable.

 

[RoA_Zam]

But you gotta remember that Orcane has a side b. No one seems to use it, but it's great for horizantal distance when charged.

I always use it because it's a much safer option. But it's easy to judge the distance a player goes with it and you can always just full jump and dair to punish the end lag as well. I'd say Wrastor has the safest recovery and Orcane second safest though now that I think about it. Kragg probably the worst because the set minimum height that it has to be which makes hugging the wall useless.

 

[RoA_Zam]

He used to be able to do that and it was removed. The thought being that combined with his spin roll attack the ability to pull blocks off of pillar made his recovery almost unstoppable.

It's been added back in since after march

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

The neatest change I can thing of for Kragg is to make his bair weaker or, more neatly, turn him around ala Marth/Roy. His bair is mostly a popup/extender right now, and making fair/dair followups easier seems like it adds some depth to his combo game without breaking anything off the top of my head.

 

[jhunter_d]

The neatest change I can thing of for Kragg is to make his bair weaker or, more neatly, turn him around ala Marth/Roy. His bair is mostly a popup/extender right now, and making fair/dair followups easier seems like it adds some depth to his combo game without breaking anything off the top of my head.

His bair is almost impossible to land for me. Does anybody else feel like this?

 

[RoA_Zam]

His bair is almost impossible to land for me. Does anybody else feel like this?

Absolutely not at all haha.

 

[jhunter_d]

Absolutely not at all haha.

Oh. What about his nair? I feel like it could be improved by giving Kragg a hitbox in the center, not just on the horn, but you probably know more about what's good and what's bad than I do.

 

[Enderwoman]

I just discovered this game existed...I really wish I found out about it sooner. I really want this gam to catch on and become more popular, not only because it looks like a really fun game in its own right, but it also has the potential to be a very good substitute for Melee or Project M without the stank of a tired 15 year old game that's slowly but surely becoming this or a clunky, awkward mod based on that 15 year old game. It can satisfy that fast-paced technical itch that current Smash games don't while providing something totally fresh and new, which I find really exciting.

 

[steak4prez]

It's been added back in since after march

Ooh, really? Gonna add this into the June build thread.

Still fighting the crusade to have pink and orange color swaps for every character...

Will post more (specials, particles) when I'm more satisfied with how they look.

 

[Aizen]

Not sure if it's been noticed before, but if you party a projectile it changes colors, what happened is I was playing White Forsburn against a red Zetterburn, I parried his Side-B back at him, it changed to classic palette Zetterburns flame color instead of the red palettes flame. Not sure if that's like supposed to happen or something but it seemed off to me.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Not sure if it's been noticed before, but if you party a projectile it changes colors, what happened is I was playing White Forsburn against a red Zetterburn, I parried his Side-B back at him, it changed to classic palette Zetterburns flame color instead of the red palettes flame. Not sure if that's like supposed to happen or something but it seemed off to me.

It changes which character owns the projectile if you parry it so it changes color to reflect that. In orcane dittos red can parry a blue projectile for example and the puddle becomes red instead of blue.

 

[someonetookjacob]

Oh. What about his nair? I feel like it could be improved by giving Kragg a hitbox in the center, not just on the horn, but you probably know more about what's good and what's bad than I do.

I am with bones, His b-air isnt hard to land, It doesnt have a ton of range, but It hits where it looks like it should. Also its a great move because of how fast it is. As for his n-air, I dont think adding a hitbox in the middle would do anything, there are no characters that are small enough to be in the middle of his n-air but not on the horn. And besides that if all the hits connect it leaves the enemy in a great place to follow up, so I dont think I would want something that changed the knockback direction or amount. Bones has suggested before making the hits of n-air link to eachother even better (they already do pretty well) to make the move more consistent. And I have suggested making it somewhat disjointed so it could be used more safely and more as a combo breaker (which I think kragg needs). I think both of those could be good changes to Kraggs n-air

Ooh, really? Gonna add this into the June build thread.

Still fighting the crusade to have pink and orange color swaps for every character...

Will post more (specials, particles) when I'm more satisfied with how they look.

I really like both the forsburns there, but I will say I wouldnt mind orange Forsburn being more different than regular. I'm excited to see the pink ones fire. And then steal these colors and beat up my friends with them. You should post the values you used for these once you are satisfied.

 

[steak4prez]

I really like both the forsburns there, but I will say I wouldnt mind orange Forsburn being more different than regular. I'm excited to see the pink ones fire. And then steal these colors and beat up my friends with them. You should post the values you used for these once you are satisfied.

Thanks for the feedback! Originally I had his flame being more orange all-around but it seemed like all the flame colors were too much the same so I put the yellow back in there, but I'll play around some more with it.

I finished the orange & pink palettes for all the characters last night, will post them tonight after work, maybe after I tweak them a little.

EDIT: So, a "tip" for Forsburn... facing the stage, his dair is an amazing edgeguarding tool, since it becomes very easy to hit that sweetspot. Here's a purely serendipitous example from last night's stream: http://www.twitch.tv/solarderivative/c/6805573

Kind of a goofy example but the kills you can get with it come more freely than one might expect.

 

[jhunter_d]

I am with bones, His b-air isnt hard to land, It doesnt have a ton of range, but It hits where it looks like it should. Also its a great move because of how fast it is. As for his n-air, I dont think adding a hitbox in the middle would do anything, there are no characters that are small enough to be in the middle of his n-air but not on the horn. And besides that if all the hits connect it leaves the enemy in a great place to follow up, so I dont think I would want something that changed the knockback direction or amount. Bones has suggested before making the hits of n-air link to eachother even better (they already do pretty well) to make the move more consistent. And I have suggested making it somewhat disjointed so it could be used more safely and more as a combo breaker (which I think kragg needs). I think both of those could be good changes to Kraggs n-air.

Now that I think about it, what Bones mentioned with regard to Kragg's nair is what would be best. Far too many times I have found that an enemy escapes Kragg's nair prematurely, and not due to landing lag. After playing around using the "Show Hitboxes" option and the 10FPS option, I found that Kragg's nair only has four hitboxes, and there's a wait in between each of them them. Possibly an option to make the nair hits link up better would be to add some hitboxes in between the ones that are already there. That way, there's less time for the opponent to escape the nair. I'll try to make a video comparing the hitboxes of Kragg's nair and Zetterburn's similar nair.

EDIT 2: While making the aforementioned video, I found that Zetterburn's nair has similar wait times between hitboxes as Kragg's nair, but the main difference between the moves is that Zetterburn's hitboxes all have upward knockback, while the knockback of Kragg's nair is in different directions, with one semi-spiking hitbox with weak knockback allowing the opponent to escape the nair. I'll post the video soon.

EDIT 3: The video, as promised! Enjoy!

 

[Gavinwie]

I don't know if it's confirmed, but apparently it's coming out for Xbone and PC. Why not ask Nintendo, since this is obviously based on Smash.

 

[Puppyfaic]

I don't know if it's confirmed, but apparently it's coming out for Xbone and PC. Why not ask Nintendo, since this is obviously based on Smash.

Because this isn't being made by Nintendo. It's not being made by any big name studio at all. It's an indie game.

And yes this is coming out for PC and XBone.

 

[someonetookjacob]

I don't know if it's confirmed, but apparently it's coming out for Xbone and PC. Why not ask Nintendo, since this is obviously based on Smash.

To add to what Puppyfaic said, The developer used to work for Microsoft and thus has some connections at Microsoft that made it easier for him to get it on there system. So I think thats why the systems its coming to started out as Xbox1 and Steam.

As for future release on other systems. Right now there is nothing planned, but it could maaayybe happen. It is however not likely because the development language/program he is using apparently doesnt play well with nintendo, and there is currently no easy means of porting it.

Furthermore it being inspired by smash doesnt really mean it has to be on nintendo systems. Its inspired primarily by competitive melee (and I bet alot of people who had a gamecube dont have a wii u), but intended for new audiences as well as people who have played smash. I would guess that people who will get it because of its melee inspirations are not only a small group, but nearly as likely to have a xbox1 as a wii u.

 

[4nace]

I always use it because it's a much safer option. But it's easy to judge the distance a player goes with it and you can always just full jump and dair to punish the end lag as well. I'd say Wrastor has the safest recovery and Orcane second safest though now that I think about it. Kragg probably the worst because the set minimum height that it has to be which makes hugging the wall useless.

Kragg has side special for recovering from high up though. Zburn defs has the worst recovery imo.

Also starting to compile patch notes this week for the next build. Hopefully will be able to capture all the gameplay changes over the last few months.

-Dan

 

[someonetookjacob]

Kragg has side special for recovering from high up though. Zburn defs has the worst recovery imo.

Also starting to compile patch notes this week for the next build. Hopefully will be able to capture all the gameplay changes over the last few months.

-Dan

Yeah, but Kragg's side b is reaaally punishable. I was shown the error of my side-b-ing ways by Xanthus. If you parry it (or even just run away and or follow it) you can punish really hard. If you can recover high enough to get on a platform and somehow mix up your direction it can be good. But its not nearly as useful as it seemed to me at first. I still agree zetterburns recovery is worse, but I would say Kragg's is the second worst.

Excited for the patch notes!, hopefully next week I am slipping and sliding Growing in the meta with a cool Blooming new rival! (Edit... added forced puns)

 

[4nace]

Yeah, but Kragg's side b is reaaally punishable. I was shown the error of my side-b-ing ways by Xanthus. If you parry it (or even just run away and or follow it) you can punish really hard. If you can recover high enough to get on a platform and somehow mix up your direction it can be good. But its not nearly as useful as it seemed to me at first. I still agree zetterburns recovery is worse, but I would say Kragg's is the second worst.

Excited for the patch notes!, hopefully next week I am slipping and sliding with a cool new rival!

Totally agree on it being punishable. I use it only if my opponent has taken to the air to chase me. Then just try to run into them and immediately cancel out of it after you hit them.

Side special definitely has good times to use it even with its long ending lag.

EDIT: Let's just let Kragg djump out of Side Special. Sounds cool? Kragg BUFFSSSSsssss!!! KRAGG OP is back babbyyyyy!

EDIT 2: Actually I was playing with that again just for fun. Thought about what if you can only jump out of it after hitting someone. Then after playing with that for 10 mins, I really like it. Makes the move match RoA much more.

-Dan

 

[someonetookjacob]

Totally agree on it being punishable. I use it only if my opponent has taken to the air to chase me. Then just try to run into them and immediately cancel out of it after you hit them.

Side special definitely has good times to use it even with its long ending lag.

EDIT: Let's just let Kragg djump out of Side Special. Sounds cool? Kragg BUFFSSSSsssss!!! KRAGG OP is back babbyyyyy!

EDIT 2: Actually I was playing with that again just for fun. Thought about what if you can only jump out of it after hitting someone. Then after playing with that for 10 mins, I really like it. Makes the move match RoA much more.

-Dan

Oh man! that sounds awesome! I love the idea of only being able to jump out of it after hitting. It also keeps it a very punishable move which I think it important for anything that has that much armor (all the armor? infinite armor? I think so...) You should do that (says the kragg main with no ulterior motives.)

 

[Gavinwie]

Hi, I applied for a alpha build, will I get a response to my e-mail or to SmashBoards?

 

[Gavinwie]

Because this isn't being made by Nintendo. It's not being made by any big name studio at all. It's an indie game.

And yes this is coming out for PC and XBone.

I meant to port the game to Wii U or 3DS

 

[jhunter_d]

Kragg has side special for recovering from high up though. Zburn defs has the worst recovery imo.

Also starting to compile patch notes this week for the next build. Hopefully will be able to capture all the gameplay changes over the last few months.

-Dan

Oh my, this is getting exciting! I can't wait to see what the new build will bring. Even if I don't get accepted for the June playtesting round, I still can't wait to see what people can find! That ripple effect on heavy hits is really cool, by the way. Reminds me of Smash 4's lightning, but I prefer the ripple.

Hi, I applied for a alpha build, will I get a response to my e-mail or to SmashBoards?

You'll get an email featuring everything you need to know in order to playtest. Lots of info on debug controls, what you can/can't do with your special build, etc etc.

 

[Gavinwie]

Oh my, this is getting exciting! I can't wait to see what the new build will bring. Even if I don't get accepted for the June playtesting round, I still can't wait to see what people can find! That ripple effect on heavy hits is really cool, by the way. Reminds me of Smash 4's lightning, but I prefer the ripple.


You'll get an email featuring everything you need to know in order to playtest. Lots of info on debug controls, what you can/can't do with your special build, etc etc.

Will I get an e-mail if I'm declined?

 

[Gavinwie]

Oh my, this is getting exciting! I can't wait to see what the new build will bring. Even if I don't get accepted for the June playtesting round, I still can't wait to see what people can find! That ripple effect on heavy hits is really cool, by the way. Reminds me of Smash 4's lightning, but I prefer the ripple.


You'll get an email featuring everything you need to know in order to playtest. Lots of info on debug controls, what you can/can't do with your special build, etc etc.

Sorry for bothering you so much, but I'm pretty excited. Can you tell me how many days it took for them to send you the e-mail.