Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[jhunter_d]

I feel like Kragg is severely underpowered, and probably the worst character in the game. He is extremely laggy, is easily combo-able due to his weight, and can't pull off combos due to his moves' high knockback, but his moves do relatively little damage even though they have lots of startup lag. For instance, Kragg's side-strong, only somewhat less laggy than Bowser's Project M side-smash, does only ten damage, when it should do around 16 or 17. This makes it really hard for Kragg to rack up damage, in my opinion and experience. I know that Kragg is somewhat intended to be a ranged character, what with his neutral and down specials, but his normals need buffing in order for Kragg to become viable. Usually in games similar to RoA, characters similar to Kragg are powerhouses that make up for their poor combo game with devastatingly powerful attacks. Kragg has the poor combo game of the other characters similar to him, but not the power to make up for it. I think that Kragg's strong attacks being buffed would be important to making him a viable character. Granted, this is just my opinion, and I might not know as much about this game as other frequent posters here. I just would like to express my concerns with Kragg.

 

[Steel Banana]

I want to sort of take a poll from you all of what you want to see me make videos of. Here are your options currently of what I have in mind. Suggest more if you want to know more of the game.

• Character movesets (cleaner tutorials)
• Recovery moves
• Wall jumps, airdodges, stalling
• DI and SDI
• Opinions on certain character matchups (give which ones you'd want)
• Differences/Similarities between RoA and other fighting games
• Stage discussion
• What I want to see added in/changed
• What other people want to see added in/changed
• Artwork creation (will take a while since I'm super slow)
• General game mechanics like techs, rolls, parrying, and more
• Playing defensively vs playing offensively
• Anything you guys want to see!

Just let me know what you all want. I'll get recording as soon as I hear what the people want.

If it doesn't exist already, a short video explaining the differences from melee/PM to RoA would be nice. Something short enough that I could show someone the video before introducing them to the game. Basically, it could cover walljump differences (pressing jump button, using it out of special fall, etc), parrying, airdodges, and other mechanical (non-character-specific) things about RoA, while also covering what is gone from smash games (shields, grabbing, ledges, etc).

 

[someonetookjacob]

I feel like Kragg is severely underpowered, and probably the worst character in the game. He is extremely laggy, is easily combo-able due to his weight, and can't pull off combos due to his moves' high knockback, but his moves do relatively little damage even though they have lots of startup lag. For instance, Kragg's side-strong, only somewhat less laggy than Bowser's Project M side-smash, does only ten damage, when it should do around 16 or 17. This makes it really hard for Kragg to rack up damage, in my opinion and experience. I know that Kragg is somewhat intended to be a ranged character, what with his neutral and down specials, but his normals need buffing in order for Kragg to become viable. Usually in games similar to RoA, characters similar to Kragg are powerhouses that make up for their poor combo game with devastatingly powerful attacks. Kragg has the poor combo game of the other characters similar to him, but not the power to make up for it. I think that Kragg's strong attacks being buffed would be important to making him a viable character. Granted, this is just my opinion, and I might not know as much about this game as other frequent posters here. I just would like to express my concerns with Kragg.

I agree with you that Kragg is probably the weakest in the game (I do want to mention though that he is sort of my main, and that may bias me, though I am not sure in what direction). Some matchups in particular are pretty bad. Wrastor combos kragg for days, and if orcane is being campy and you get separated from your rock it feels like you have literally no options. He also cobos kragg pretty hard. That being said I can still win those matchups with kragg. So they are doable.

I dont know that increased dmg is really needed, generally I dont start trying to land strongs until the enemy is high enough that it will come close to killing them. And another thing to note about this game thats different than smash is that with the inclusion of parries, getting a parry = a free strong attack. So giving ANY character, no matter how slow, a PM Bowser like f-smash would be too powerful in my opinion. I like that at low percents the optimal follow up for a parry isnt just a strong attack, but a combo starter. It adds diversity to the gameplay.

As for how to help Kragg be a little more even with others, I think giving his n-air more priority (so it trades less often) or disjoint might help some. Reducing the knockback or adding more hitstun on his b-air could probably help his combo game, It is already one of his better combo moves. The thing I really worry about with kragg is that as people get better at DI and parries he will have fewer combo options than the rest of the cast, and fewer options to get in. Baiting parries and punishing will probably be important.

One minor change I would like to see (though not really for balance, more for... me wanting it) would be if his up-tilt hit slightly in front of and behind him at the start (it is just behind now). It could be nice for shattering sitting rocks up and it hits better with how smash has taught me moves like that work (not that being different is a bad thing)

All this said I do want to mention that Kragg is a beast at edge guarding. between the rock, the rock spray, and strong offstage aerials this is where he really shines. Many matches against wrastors where I get comboed the entire match go to me because of a few low percent spikes or a few many-rock-long edgeguards.

TL:DR -- Kragg is a bit weak, but not unviable (for now). Minor tweaks could fix this, I dont think he needs any big, or even medium changes.

I like talking about this game... sorry for the long post.

 

[Cirby64]

If it doesn't exist already, a short video explaining the differences from melee/PM to RoA would be nice. Something short enough that I could show someone the video before introducing them to the game. Basically, it could cover walljump differences (pressing jump button, using it out of special fall, etc), parrying, airdodges, and other mechanical (non-character-specific) things about RoA, while also covering what is gone from smash games (shields, grabbing, ledges, etc).

I really like the idea of having an online tournament whenever it's ready. It'll be interesting to see who is on top of the game right now.

 

[CaptainCrisb]

I want to sort of take a poll from you all of what you want to see me make videos of. Here are your options currently of what I have in mind. Suggest more if you want to know more of the game.

• Character movesets (cleaner tutorials)
• Recovery moves
• Wall jumps, airdodges, stalling
• DI and SDI
• Opinions on certain character matchups (give which ones you'd want)
• Differences/Similarities between RoA and other fighting games
• Stage discussion
• What I want to see added in/changed
• What other people want to see added in/changed
• Artwork creation (will take a while since I'm super slow)
• General game mechanics like techs, rolls, parrying, and more
• Playing defensively vs playing offensively
• Anything you guys want to see!

Just let me know what you all want. I'll get recording as soon as I hear what the people want.

DI definitely. I suck at it at Smash, and you can imagine I still suck at it in RoA

 

[Falchion_Punch]

Idk if the creators will respond to this, but is there any word on alternate character costumes for DLC? would shell out a couple of dollars for a biker jacket and shade wearing Wrastor.

 

[NoPunNintendid]

Will this be available for mac or other consoles other than the Xbox One?

 

[RoA_Zam]

Will this be available for mac or other consoles other than the Xbox One?

Planned for PC steam release and Xbox One. It could potentially come to more platforms in the future.

 

[lecceo]

About the play tester thing. I sent in an application a few days ago, and I have been checking every day. Did you guys stop accepting applications, or did I just not make it in? I have been wondering for a while now, and holding off on joining any other beta's yet. My apologies if i seem impatient.

EDIT: my gmail was linkeatcomputer@gmail.com

 

[Aizen]

Dans worked a bit on the smoke issue. Hopefully it'll be a bit better in the next version. But then again he's adding a lot more into the game so you never know how it will run performance-wise. It's a guessing game until he goes into the stages where he talks with developers of / using GMStudio and learns ways to effectively reduce GPU/CPU lagging.

Also fun fact about his neutralB: if you spam is quickly you float downwards slower because it stalls you, which can sometimes aid in helping you to not get hit while recovering from above if timed properly.

Ah got it, I have an ancient laptop i use, ive considered upgrading but dont have the money for it right now. i've learned to play him without using Neutral B at all, slowdown gets really bad. I had noticed on videos featuring Forsburn that he didnt have any slowdown while using neutralB so i narrowed it down to it just being my computer or there was a fix that people knew of that I had missed.

 

[Aizen]

About the play tester thing. I sent in an application a few days ago, and I have been checking every day. Did you guys stop accepting applications, or did I just not make it in? I have been wondering for a while now, and holding off on joining any other beta's yet. My apologies if i seem impatient.

EDIT: my gmail was linkeatcomputer@gmail.com

There will be a new build sometime this month, you will know when they are accepting more applicants when the build drops later on

 

[ChimaeraUltimo]

I want to sort of take a poll from you all of what you want to see me make videos of. Here are your options currently of what I have in mind. Suggest more if you want to know more of the game.

• Character movesets (cleaner tutorials)
• Recovery moves
• Wall jumps, airdodges, stalling
• DI and SDI
• Opinions on certain character matchups (give which ones you'd want)
• Differences/Similarities between RoA and other fighting games
• Stage discussion
• What I want to see added in/changed
• What other people want to see added in/changed
• Artwork creation (will take a while since I'm super slow)
• General game mechanics like techs, rolls, parrying, and more
• Playing defensively vs playing offensively
• Anything you guys want to see!

Just let me know what you all want. I'll get recording as soon as I hear what the people want.

charecter movesets and tutorials please!

 

[steak4prez]

• Playing defensively vs playing offensively

Discussion about this would intrigue me greatly. I focus heavily on improving my offensive play and would love to hear more about different approaches.

I don't stream regularly anymore due to working full-time, but I do want to get some streaming in this weekend on show off some Wrastor play. You know, improve my Wrastor mastery.
...Wrastory

I might also try implementing some custom color palettes while streaming! Which would be a kind of live-action tutorial for those at all interested. Last time GatorFace streamed he had a pink pastel Wrastor and I want to play as what I'm dubbing K-Pop Wrastor so bad.

Idk if the creators will respond to this, but is there any word on alternate character costumes for DLC? would shell out a couple of dollars for a biker jacket and shade wearing Wrastor.

Unless I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure all alt. colors for characters work in-game by changing numbers to alter the hues of specific aspects of a character's sprite. Under the system they have, anything that alters the actual "texture" of the sprite (i.e. clothing) wouldn't be possible.

I can't put forward enough support for DLC palette sets though. Something simple like $0.50 or $1.00 or whatever to buy "Yellow Character Pack" that unlocks another color slot for each character giving them a yellow alt. or whatever color they buy. (Please give me orange and pink alts. for each character tyyyyyyyy)

Also, I bought an Xbox One today. Partly to play Destiny with friends but mostly to ensure that I'm #1 on all leaderboards for this game.

EDIT: lmao xbone broken out of the box
EDIT2: it's k factory reset OP

 

[lecceo]

There will be a new build sometime this month, you will know when they are accepting more applicants when the build drops later on

if I get accepted, would I be able to start a you tube channel showcasing this game? If so then how much can I show?

 

[RoA_Zam]

Minor glitch that Dan already knows about. Anything with alpha, like invincible/fall state, or moves with alpha like Fors smoke or Wrastor sideB cause old elements of Fire Capital to be revealed when paused.

EDIT: After bringing it to his attention again he's already fixed it within like 20 minutes lmao

 

[RoA_Zam]

if I get accepted, would I be able to start a you tube channel showcasing this game? If so then how much can I show?

Yes you can start a channel. You can show off anything about your current build, and you can play with friends and bring it to events, but you are not allowed in any way to distribute the game to anyone else.

 

[someonetookjacob]

Minor glitch that Dan already knows about. Anything with alpha, like invincible/fall state, or moves with alpha like Fors smoke or Wrastor sideB cause old elements of Fire Capital to be revealed when paused.

EDIT: After bringing it to his attention again he's already fixed it within like 20 minutes lmao

Thats a pretty weird one!

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

I saw the conversation about Kragg being underpowered due to his lack of damage dealing/punish game. I agreed with what everyone else said about damage/parrying, but also felt like throwing out a quick example. My roommate came over to play, and after a few minutes I landed this:

I do think giving his nair a bit more range could be good, as long as it isn't made faster - it's already a mean reversal if someone overextends a bit. His neutral leans towards extremes right now, based around the brick, and giving him a more formidable way to claim stage presence without the commitment of placing the brick could be a good thing.

 

[RoA_Zam]

I saw the conversation about Kragg being underpowered due to his lack of damage dealing/punish game. I agreed with what everyone else said about damage/parrying, but also felt like throwing out a quick example. My roommate came over to play, and after a few minutes I landed this:

I do think giving his nair a bit more range could be good, as long as it isn't made faster - it's already a mean reversal if someone overextends a bit. His neutral leans towards extremes right now, based around the brick, and giving him a more formidable way to claim stage presence without the commitment of placing the brick could be a good thing.

The Wrastor had enough time to DI away more and air-dodge away. It only happened because of the bad DI haha. Kragg isn't BAD but he's what I consider the worst out of the 5. Every character can win if you put time into seeing where moves link together properly into combos. In that situation I personally would have Fair'd with Kragg instead of fStrong to cover the possible DI away

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

Yeah, obviously horrible DI. Dude panics when he plays Wrastor cause I've killed him too often with randy fstrongs at 20%. But yeah, my point there was that punish game for characters in RoA right now are all pretty absurd and also terribly unoptimized, so saying any of them don't have the ability to rack up damage is kind of silly.

Horrible DI or not, that was literally 5 minutes of play. There's much more that Kragg can get done, with Nair DI mixups and Dair setups and whatnot.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Yeah, obviously horrible DI. Dude panics when he plays Wrastor cause I've killed him too often with randy fstrongs at 20%. But yeah, my point there was that punish game for characters in RoA right now are all pretty absurd and also terribly unoptimized, so saying any of them don't have the ability to rack up damage is kind of silly.

Horrible DI or not, that was literally 5 minutes of play. There's much more that Kragg can get done, with Nair DI mixups and Dair setups and whatnot.

I still say nair is bad though because if you don't get the 3rd to the last hit of it then the opponent is behind you and has time to escape while you're in hitstun. Dair has to be used to punish someone's missed attack because every utilt and ustrong defeats it. Kragg has to fake out and use his doublejump or something if he predicts an up-move which gives the opponent time to roll away, prepare a parry, use another up move (besides orcane and wrastor), or do something wrong and get punished. If you have a pillar wall that you knock an opponent against then that sets up for dair/fair/uair fun which can make his dair more useful mid-combo. I just think it's range and necessary timing to use makes it kind of a bad move. If it was out for like 2-3 more frames and had a few more pixels of range downward then it'd be super good.

Kragg also has really badly shaped hitboxes on strong attacks which need to be segmented to be more accurate. His ftilt is really good but underutilized by players likely because of how spammy it is. His utilt is good. How downB is amazing but no one I know likes using it. His recovery is pretty garbage since it's so easy to wait and punish the upB. If they recover away from the stage, go off and fair them or the pillar as soon as possible. If they recover hugging the edge of the stage, do a reverse aerial rush off the side before they upB so that you're facing towards the stage while they do it so you can punish it (not necessary for wrastor bair, zetter neutralB, fors bair, orcane bair, or Kragg nair, but it has situational uses)

Now that I'm done typing that input about Kragg on my phone, time to head off to work for today haha.

 

[Cirby64]

I don't want to use your words out of context Dan, but look here people, Dan has basically given his own Tier List opinions for the March build, plus some info on upcoming balance changes.


"S: Zetterburn

A: Orcane, Kragg

B: Forsburn, Wrastor

Wrastor has had some slight buffs since then. Forsburn hasn't really but I am still waiting on what I do with his specials. Also Zburn has been tuned down a bit since then in a couple of ways. Orcane has been hit a touch. Kragg has not been nerfed."

 

[RoA_Zam]

@ Cirby64 my statements are based on a may build only I got.

 

[Cirby64]

@ Cirby64 my statements are based on a may build only I got.

I honestly don't know why I quoted your post. That was an accident, my b.

 

[RoA_Zam]

I honestly don't know why I quoted your post. That was an accident, my b.

Imma 5-0 you for that. JK no probs haha. I'm just providing my input from the version that no one has yet for how balance in the game. Zetterburn is easily midtear now and wrastor was never bad to begin with. He just got better and orcane did as well.

 

[Brocolli123]

Hello. Amazing looking game. Is there any beta or way to sign up to try the game? Thanks

 

[Cirby64]

Hello. Amazing looking game. Is there any beta or way to sign up to try the game? Thanks

Very first post.

 

[jhunter_d]

Is it well-known around these parts that you can jump-cancel Wrastor's down-strong? I really like the fact that you can do that, it allows you to circumvent the (relatively minor) landing lag that you'd normally incur from the attack, and it really lets a player play complex mindgames, as you can charge up a down-strong and then cancel it with no negative repercussions other than the loss of a jump. Similarly, I've found that it's great for spacing, as you can freeze in the air while charging, then dstrong, immediately jump-cancel, and then throw out another move.

 

[Death By Hugs]

I took Rivals of Aether to my brother's tournament. I had a side event tournament for the game and everyone who played it loved it! I told them all about how to get their hands on the game and where to find info on it. They all especially loved the unique characters and design.

Feedback:
1. Wrastor is too floaty
2. Orcane needs to be nerfed
3. Forsburn is great at juggling opponents reallly high, but needs a finisher to send them flying upwards enough to kill. Maybe replace the hitbox for neutral air so it sends up.

Ttournament Results: http://smashboards.com/rankings/rivals-of-aether.6739/event

 

[jhunter_d]

I took Rivals of Aether to my brother's tournament. I had a side event tournament for the game and everyone who played it loved it! I told them all about how to get their hands on the game and where to find info on it. They all especially loved the unique characters and design.

Feedback:
1. Wrastor is too floaty
2. Orcane needs to be nerfed
3. Forsburn is great at juggling opponents reallly high, but needs a finisher to send them flying upwards enough to kill. Maybe replace the hitbox for neutral air so it sends up.

Ttournament Results: http://smashboards.com/rankings/rivals-of-aether.6739/event

I agree definitely with your first two points (as of now, I think that the only things limiting Orcane from being S-tier are the fact that he has a terrible recovery and that Zetterburn counters him (but that's a whole other story)) but I feel like Forsburn is more of a horizontal character. Most of his kill moves are varied, with jab (final hit), dair (non-sweetspot), and side-strong (second hit) being horizontal, dstrong and upstrong being upwardly vertical, and sweetspotted dair being downwardly vertical (and a good combo move as well).

 

[Chuck Tatum]

Hey every body! We are live streaming RoA with commentary here: http://www.twitch.tv/cuddlypotato/dashboard.

We will be watching chat and taking requests.

 

[Death By Hugs]

I agree definitely with your first two points (as of now, I think that the only things limiting Orcane from being S-tier are the fact that he has a terrible recovery and that Zetterburn counters him (but that's a whole other story)) but I feel like Forsburn is more of a horizontal character. Most of his kill moves are varied, with jab (final hit), dair (non-sweetspot), and side-strong (second hit) being horizontal, dstrong and upstrong being upwardly vertical, and sweetspotted dair being downwardly vertical (and a good combo move as well).

1.That's the point. He needs an aerial finisher for juggling.
2.Orc's recovery is way better than Zburn and Fburn

 

[jhunter_d]

1.That's the point. He needs an aerial finisher for juggling.
2.Orc's recovery is way better than Zburn and Fburn

IMO Orcane's recovery is both terrible and amazing at the same time. It's amazing because no matter where Orcane is, as long as he's not past one of the blastzones, he's able to get back on stage. The downside is that he can only do so if his puddle is active, and with it being so easy to use up a puddle during a strong attack or for another reason, many times an Orcane will find themselves unable to use their up-b. The bigger problem, however, is how easily gimpable Orcane's recovery is. All you have to do to stop an Orcane from recovering is to camp next to the puddle, charge up a strong attack, and when the Orcane teleports to the puddle, release the attack. They'll have no puddle down after that and thus no way to get back onto the stage. If you want to go further, you could probably parry Orcane as soon as he teleports into the puddle (I haven't tested it out yet but I think that it's possible) and *then* charge an attack. (Granted, I dunno if you'd be able to get the same amount of charge as if you would use the other method, and you give the Orcane more time to DI, but it's still an alternative to think about.)

 

[RoA_Zam]

1.That's the point. He needs an aerial finisher for juggling.
2.Orc's recovery is way better than Zburn and Fburn

Orcane's recovery is much more predictable. If you force orcane up upB, the opponent can just charge a strong attack to punish it and generally get a kill from it.

 

[Cirby64]

I took Rivals of Aether to my brother's tournament. I had a side event tournament for the game and everyone who played it loved it! I told them all about how to get their hands on the game and where to find info on it. They all especially loved the unique characters and design.

Feedback:
1. Wrastor is too floaty
2. Orcane needs to be nerfed
3. Forsburn is great at juggling opponents reallly high, but needs a finisher to send them flying upwards enough to kill. Maybe replace the hitbox for neutral air so it sends up.

Ttournament Results: http://smashboards.com/rankings/rivals-of-aether.6739/event

I disagree with Wrastor being too floaty. It definitely defines him between all of these fast fallers. Not to mention, if Wrastor wasn't that floaty, it would be much harder for him to do aerial combos the way he does right now.

 

[Death By Hugs]

Orcane's recovery is much more predictable. If you force orcane up upB, the opponent can just charge a strong attack to punish it and generally get a kill from it.

But you gotta remember that Orcane has a side b. No one seems to use it, but it's great for horizantal distance when charged.

 

[steak4prez]

Is it well-known around these parts that you can jump-cancel Wrastor's down-strong? I really like the fact that you can do that, it allows you to circumvent the (relatively minor) landing lag that you'd normally incur from the attack, and it really lets a player play complex mindgames, as you can charge up a down-strong and then cancel it with no negative repercussions other than the loss of a jump. Similarly, I've found that it's great for spacing, as you can freeze in the air while charging, then dstrong, immediately jump-cancel, and then throw out another move.

That's actually being changed in the June* build. You won't be able to jump-cancel it, and upon hitting a foe you'll bounce off of them now like Greninja.

 

[lecceo]

So, how do things like tumbling animations and techs work? If you miss a tech do you have to roll? If you are spiked in the air onto the stage and miss the tech do you just stay there until you roll or bounce up like in smash 4? Is there reverse Arial rush? Can you jump cancel any moves to slide while performing the move? Can you jab reset? can you do jab locks with really fast moves(like ness's melee down tilt, fox's dair, or pika's jab)? Does grounded hitstun work the same way as in pm?

 

[someonetookjacob]

But you gotta remember that Orcane has a side b. No one seems to use it, but it's great for horizantal distance when charged.

Trust me, People who use orcane more often use side-b. It is quite good as a recovery if you can get a wall jump in. I usually try to use the side-b over the up b to recover, You can also sometimes be a little tricky and side b to the wall to draw them away from your puddle and towards the ledge, then wall jump and up b. Side b is great. I still dont think orcanes recovery is too ridiculous. But it is certainly functional. Better than zetter's and maybe Kraggs, worse than Forsburn and Wrastor's. (Forsburn can do smoke stalling things and send a clone recovery in to mix up and avoid edge guards. I havent practiced it much but I think its tricky enough that he will be hard to edge guard at higher levels.)

 

[jhunter_d]

So, how do things like tumbling animations and techs work? If you miss a tech do you have to roll? If you are spiked in the air onto the stage and miss the tech do you just stay there until you roll or bounce up like in smash 4? Is there reverse Arial rush? Can you jump cancel any moves to slide while performing the move? Can you jab reset? can you do jab locks with really fast moves(like ness's melee down tilt, fox's dair, or pika's jab)? Does grounded hitstun work the same way as in pm?

If you miss a tech, you don't go into the prone animation, but simply bounce up or slide on the ground depending on the angle of impact. Thus, you can't jab reset. I *think* there's RARing, but don't quote me on that. You can't jump-cancel moves out of dash, but you can do something better -- use all four strong/smash attacks out of dash.

That's actually being changed in the May build. You won't be able to jump-cancel it, and upon hitting a foe you'll bounce off of them now like Greninja.

Oh, that's annoying. I think that Wrastor doesn't need another nerf. I loved the options that being able to jump-cancel provided. Still, it's a pretty good idea.

Speaking of Wrastor, do you think that the ability to throw another tornado while a jet stream is already out on the field would be good? I think that as long as the tornado didn't produce a second jet stream, and you'd only be limited to one tornado onscreen, then it'd be a needed improvement. That's just my opinion though.

I also think that Wrastor can't really combo that well. I dunno if it's just me, but I feel like his moves don't have enough hit stun, leading to opponents escaping his grasp easily. I think that Kragg has a similar problem. Once again, this is just my crappy opinion.