Data Ridley Moveset Data (Preliminary) - UPDATED with Dashing Grab Side B and Weak Point Info

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#81
Ridleys final smash might have the same treatment as bayonetta s final smash

If damage is 100% plus it's a automatic ko I noticed that every time Ridley got a final smash in
 
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#82
It's gotten around Discord and ofc Twitter but I figured it would warrant posting here for archiving purposes during the speculation period or what have you:

vVv Rapture vVv Rapture (hope that's the right one) did a writeup of his Ridley impressions since he was able to play at CEO this past weekend:

Original Tweet

Google Doc on its own

All credit to him of course, it's a great read for all of us who haven't gotten to play the game themselves haha.
 

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#83
Recently, I've heard that Ridley's down special has danger zone properties, but such information is not present at the SmashWiki. If that's true, I feel that that type of bonus is too overpowering for a normal attack to have, especially since the down special deals up to 59.3% damage during a 1-on-1 bout.
 

Cutie Gwen

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#85
https://youtu.be/4r5b-Lf1NCo?t=2m23s

I'm bringing this over from the Ridley Social thread, but it seems like you can jump out of his Down Air.
As was said there, it's not a jump cancel but something that happens when you have upwards momentum and use a Dair that sends you downwards like Sonic, Zamus, Sheik, Toon Link, Greninja, Corrin, Bayonetta and more I'm probably forgetting
 
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#86
Recently, I've heard that Ridley's down special has danger zone properties, but such information is not present at the SmashWiki. If that's true, I feel that that type of bonus is too overpowering for a normal attack to have, especially since the down special deals up to 59.3% damage during a 1-on-1 bout.
If you're talking about that Link portion in his reveal, it's not been reported happening anywhere else, and I've seen the down special put people over 100% without dying, which is the threshold that most "obliteration" KOs happen. So either the down special specifically has a higher one, or the reveal clip was just a quirk of a special mode like Stamina.
 

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#87
If you're talking about that Link portion in his reveal, it's not been reported happening anywhere else, and I've seen the down special put people over 100% without dying, which is the threshold that most "obliteration" KOs happen. So either the down special specifically has a higher one, or the reveal clip was just a quirk of a special mode like Stamina.
I think the down special is probably more in the lines of dealing high damage, but can't KO on its own; a trait that it seems to share with Ryu's Focus Attack.

But even then, an attack that deals 40%+ damage as early as frame 30 feels a bit too powerful for a standard fighter to have if you can use it at any time without much, if any risk involved. Even Ganondorf's Warlock Punch isn't THAT damaging, and it doesn't hit until frame 70 (frame 80 when reversed).

Part of me thinks that Ridley will get the nerf hammer for his down special so that its damage output isn't too absurd; maybe adjust it so that the sweetspot deals 25% damage with the stab, followed by an additional 5% for the release.
 
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#88
Considering how small the sweetspot seems to be along with the extreme spacing you need to hit that sweetspot (about a little further than Corrin's tipper pin range without the fast startup) and the horrid damage/frame disadvantage you're left in for missing the sweetspot on hit/on shield (in fact I think the down b does like no shield damage even when sweetspot spaced, meaning it loses to shield completely) I can understand how high its damage is when you actually hit the thing.

Additionally there's the fact that Ridley, while still being in clear advantage after the crumple (tech-chase situation), still doesn't get anything necessarily guaranteed after the hit.

I could see it's damage being dropped to do 40% hit 1 -> 9% hit 2 for a total 10% damage nerf, but imo any lower than that or like, 35%/40% damage in total at the absolute lowest would be too much considering the disadv/trash damage you're left with for missing/mis-spacing.

Granted, other characters have clearly "competitively dead" buttons as they could be called - Jiggs' Rollout, Warlock/Falcon Punch, Jet Hammer (d3), etc - but considering the trend of changes they've been making for Ultimate to put it in a more competitive frame and the fact that Ridley is a newcomer (that is, in a sense I can imagine the devs want to have newcomers' designs be 'fully effective' for lack of a better term in that they can use the entirety of the kit they've been given), I doubt that they would cripple the functionality of his D-B by halving the damage of the move in the build we have on release.
 
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#89
I'm pretty sure that there may be ways to make the down special not be too absurd.
  • Reduce the sweetspot's total damage output, but increase the size of its hitbox to compensate. Increasing the sweetspot's shield damage bonus would also be good to make up for the damage reduction.
  • Increase the sourspot's base knockback so that even if Ridley doesn't land the sweetspot, the sourspot would deal enough knockback to get fighters off of Ridley's face. Of course, the sourspot still wouldn't be able to KO on its own until the opponent's current damage goes well beyond 300%.
    • The sourspot would deal 5% damage, have 100 BKB, and 30 KBG, which should be enough to put even Bowser in a prolonged hitstun state.
 
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#90
You can't make his down b less extreme, because that's what his ftilt is. Shield-breaking is also somewhat redundant since he has scary grabs and unlike other heavies, moves that aren't excessively slow on startup or ending lag.
 
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#91
You can't make his down b less extreme, because that's what his ftilt is. Shield-breaking is also somewhat redundant since he has scary grabs and unlike other heavies, moves that aren't excessively slow on startup or ending lag.
Then maybe adjust the down special's mechanics so that it'll deal greater damage when you charge it. If uncharged, the sweetspot won't be too damaging, while a full charge stab would rival Roy's fully charged Flare Blade in the damage department.
 
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#92
Then maybe adjust the down special's mechanics so that it'll deal greater damage when you charge it. If uncharged, the sweetspot won't be too damaging, while a full charge stab would rival Roy's fully charged Flare Blade in the damage department.
You'd have to give it the ability to kill then, whether through a guaranteed followup like Focus Attack or just straight knockback. Fully charged Flare Blade isn't really scary for it's damage, but it's ability to kill most fighters at 0%. And that's really the only incentive to go for these long, charged moves that can't be stored.
 
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#93
You'd have to give it the ability to kill then, whether through a guaranteed followup like Focus Attack or just straight knockback. Fully charged Flare Blade isn't really scary for it's damage, but it's ability to kill most fighters at 0%. And that's really the only incentive to go for these long, charged moves that can't be stored.
The biggest sense of irony is that a fully charged Flare Blade is actually weaker (in terms of knockback dealt) than getting an almost full charge.

Anyway, what the sweetspot stab could do is that the more damage it deals, the longer the target will have to stay prone before he/she can recover. So if Ridley lands a fully charged sweetspot, the target would end up being prone long enough for Ridley to follow-up with one of his KO moves. Of course, Ridley might not want to waste time charging his smash attacks, as the prone duration would likely end before the smash attack reaches full charge.
 
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#94
The biggest sense of irony is that a fully charged Flare Blade is actually weaker (in terms of knockback dealt) than getting an almost full charge.

Anyway, what the sweetspot stab could do is that the more damage it deals, the longer the target will have to stay prone before he/she can recover. So if Ridley lands a fully charged sweetspot, the target would end up being prone long enough for Ridley to follow-up with one of his KO moves. Of course, Ridley might not want to waste time charging his smash attacks, as the prone duration would likely end before the smash attack reaches full charge.
Look. It's easy to say ''just make this move more like this proven one'' for the sake of viability.

But at the moment, there is simply no other move that is quite like Ridley's down b, dealing a ton of damage in a relatively short time without actually killing opponents, and just changing it into another Focus Attack or Shield Breaker would lose Ridley a lot of uniqueness. And when you consider Ridley's huge frame makes him likely to take just as much damage in a short time from combos...

Also, near full charge Flare Blade only actually deals more knockback on highly damaged opponents, making it only relevant in Home-Run Contests.
 
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#95
But at the moment, there is simply no other move that is quite like Ridley's down b, dealing a ton of damage in a relatively short time without actually killing opponents, and just changing it into another Focus Attack or Shield Breaker would lose Ridley a lot of uniqueness. And when you consider Ridley's huge frame makes him likely to take just as much damage in a short time from combos...
My main concern about the down special is that its current damage output for the sweetspot could end up being a very cheap way for Ridley to sweep the lightweight fighters, especially if his strongest follow-up attacks deal enough knockback to KO them before they even hit the 100% damage mark.

If the sweetspot dealt 35% damage with the stab, followed by 5% for the release, it probably wouldn't feel so absurd with its damage output.

And for those who are wondering, the following video shows the down special dealing 59.3% damage with the sweetspot; 50.4% for the stab, followed by 8.9% for the release.
 
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#96
My main concern about the down special is that its current damage output for the sweetspot could end up being a very cheap way for Ridley to sweep the lightweight fighters, especially if his strongest follow-up attacks deal enough knockback to KO them before they even hit the 100% damage mark.

If the sweetspot dealt 35% damage with the stab, followed by 5% for the release, it probably wouldn't feel so absurd with its damage output.

And for those who are wondering, the following video shows the down special dealing 59.3% damage with the sweetspot; 50.4% for the stab, followed by 8.9% for the release.
The way the move works, it's far more likely that it's the big heavyweights that'll be abused by down b, if anything. See, it's not as simple as getting a tipper hit like with Marth. The spearhead, or at least the base of it, has to be completely embedded in the target's hurtbox to be affected by the sweetspot. So it's much harder to land properly if that hurtbox is small and/or skinny, and that's not even getting into their general speed and relative lack of easily punished moves...

The move is gonna cause a lot of salt among low-level players with their unsafe/predictable strategies no matter what you do to change it, unless you just straight up gut it and make ftilt strictly better. Let it. It's the ultimate ''git gud'' move.
 

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#97
We don't know if the down B will even survive to future demo builds as it currently exists, let alone make it to the full game.

I say let it rock until they have the actual substantial data needed to determine if the move is busted (either too good or borderline useless).
 
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#99
1:58

I haven't seen it noted anywhere, but it looks to me that Ridley can bonk into the stage with his up B ala Bayonetta side B.

oof at that Sonic ladder that happens immediately after
Well it is interesting. Ridley grabs the edge right after, so we don't really know if he can do anything else after, or if there's a limit to it like Ness up b crashing into the stage. The only tourney legal stage I see this being relevant on for now is hazardless Wily Castle since there are apparently no longer variances between omegas.
 

IronWarrior94

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So I've been hearing lately how people are selling off Ridley's side B ever since it was discovered you can mash out of it, but I recall it being said that you can only mash out easily if you have low damage percentage? The higher your percentage, the harder it is to mash out of it.
 
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So I've been hearing lately how people are selling off Ridley's side B ever since it was discovered you can mash out of it, but I recall it being said that you can only mash out easily if you have low damage percentage? The higher your percentage, the harder it is to mash out of it.
As far as I can tell the "selling off" was more a knee-jerk response than anything, from the gameplay footage we have and the gameplay experience that some have actually managed to get with the character, Ridley seems to be either frame-neutral or frame-positive after the opponent mashes out.

Of course it would be ideal if they couldn't mash out because then we would get access to ridiculous guaranteed damage, but considering the necessity of balance, I think the command grab being mashable still leaves Ridley with plenty of mixup options after he gets the grab.

That is,

If he gets the command grab:

A) They can mash out, minimizing damage but putting them in a (potential) mixup setting on the ground where they may be at frame disadvantage.

B) Ridley can jump cancel, putting himself in a favorable position due to his strong aerial kit and putting the opponent in another position where they may have to guess, although the guessing game is now in the air and possibly offstage, which makes things more of a challenge.

C) They can do nothing and take the max command grab damage as Ridley makes his way to a side of the stage, leaving them offstage with significant damage taken but allowing them some space between themselves and Ridley after the fact.

The point is that IMO, regardless of the outcome of the grab, Ridley is rewarded for connecting it. Obviously in most cases the opponent will simply want to mash out to minimize damage and stay on stage, but it seems that the frame differential after the mash is not the same as a typical grab (read: in Ridley's slight favor), thus giving the move some purpose so it isn't just a slower, more telegraphed - albeit with technically more reach because of the lunge - effectively worse normal grab since Ridley doesn't have throw combos out of it (a la dthrow -> uair, etc).

P.S. on the subject of the opponent mashing out, we can reference the footage here:


where Anti's Bayo mashes out at 0%

and the footage here:


where Rapture gets 2 mashed-out command grabs between 2:10 - 2:14

to have some idea of the frame differential that occurs when the mash happens (imo it seems to tilt slightly in Ridley's favor as the percent goes up).

and P.P.S. Rapture mentioned in his google doc that he didn't remember doing the jump cancel however he did manage it once in the second match above at about 0:33, but I digress, haha.
 

vVv Rapture

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Posted this in Social but figured it could go here too. Useful info:


Some info from Robo-Luigi, who was the notable Ridley player from Gamepolis

https://twitter.com/RoboLuigi/status/1022085296136089600
-Downward angled UpB seems to ignore platforms.
-I couldn't manage to Gentleman properly with button presses, I could only do it while holding A for the three hits of jab.
https://twitter.com/RoboLuigi/status/1022086055548411904
-If you grab someone with SideB on air it will drag them down until you reach land, then it will automatically drag them across the ground.
-Ridley will always die first if you don't input a button before reaching a blastzone with sideB, the other will live.
https://twitter.com/RoboLuigi/status/1022086600514265088
-UpB angled up seems pretty hard to defy, it beats Pac's hydrant and many moves but seems vulnerable on the side.
-The explosive animation of getting hit while charging fireballs nullifies knockback, got hit by Fox UpSmash at over 100% and didn't move bc of this, could be useful
https://twitter.com/RoboLuigi/status/1022087824210907136
-UpSmash doesn't hit in front of Ridley, pretty weird.
-FSmash is pretty strong but a bit slower than it might seem on footage ( Killed Squirtle at 50% with no rage once ).
-As far as I could test, NeutralB and DownB were B-reverseable but I couldn't reverse UpB, it acted weird.
 

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:017::046:

Can you find a video where you see the aerial tail stab? What happens when you sweetspot it midair?
It took a while, but we finally got a good quality video for this (from Robo~Luigi, same as the above post).


Disappointed a bit that it's not more like Ryu's mid-air (charged) Focus Attack, but it makes sense the stun/crumple wouldn't be as strong in the air.
 

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It took a while, but we finally got a good quality video for this (from Robo~Luigi, same as the above post).


Disappointed a bit that it's not more like Ryu's mid-air (charged) Focus Attack, but it makes sense the stun/crumple wouldn't be as strong in the air.
That's underwhelming.
 

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So, Ridley is a newcomer that most of us have not played.

Still, we got a lot of videos of demo footage showing him off so I think we could figure out what his top ten most used moves will be.

So, make a list an explain why you think those moves will be used so much.
 

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His most-used move will be Side-B, easily. It looks super satisfying, does a lot of damage, and it automatically throws your opponent off the stage. It can be mashed out of, but I imagine most players won't be aware of that.

Not sure about the other nine. Depends on how useful his various non-special attacks are.
 

Gazorpazorpfield

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I don't know if I can offer a specific number, either, but I'll try to outline some notable ones.

1. Definitely nair. It has good frame data, solid range, and the ability to start or extend a string. It's a great tool in neutral, and will be vital to his play.
2. Bair. This will be a respectable kill option at high percents, and who knows--maybe someone finds a confirm into it? I believe it also autocancels on shorthop, but I could be wrong. Not to mention, it has disgusting vertical reach; while I don't have the screenshot, it was able to hit a Squirtle standing on the Smashville platform, from just a shorthop. Shorthop bair might be a big deal.
3. Uair. Looks like Ridley stole the hitbox from Cloud's up-air. This thing is thicc. Last I checked the wings were at least somewhat disjointed, and it has deceivingly large horizontal range. Without making too many bold claims about this hitbox, I can't help but worry it's gonna be lessened before release. It looks nutty.
4. Utilt. It covers a wide arc around Ridley, but will mostly be an anti-air and combo tool. If Up-air is stolen from Cloud, then Up-Tilt is ripped from Mario, because it can combo into itself multiple times! Great way to rack up damage at low percent.
5. Side B. Now, I don't think this move is going to be as good as some believe. With higher startup than Ganon's Side B and a hefty amount of endlag, it really isn't something we'll just be able to throw out. But, if we can punish a whiff or unsafe landing--or just get a good read in general--there's gonna be a big reward in damage. And, free stage control! Also, as Diem noted, it looks super satisfying to land. Definitely gonna be a staple for the For Glory Ridley™ , but maybe not as frequent among competitive players. I have a feeling players will constantly be looking out for this one.
6. Down-Tilt. Good range, fair frame data, and the spicy ability to start a combo. Basically a discount Mewtwo DTilt, but that's not at all a bad thing to be. Also, I think his tail is somewhat disjointed, but I may be wrong. If so, it's a solid poke.
7. Fair. Speaking of solid pokes, why not three? We've seen this one follow a DTilt and what I think was a Down Throw(?). It can be combo'd into Fairly easily :smirk:, and seems good for getting damage in advantage or neutral. Seems like it can only really end combos though, unlike nair, utilt and uair. We'll see.
8. Jab. I mean, Ridley's got good frame data for a heavy, but it could be better. He'll need something to resort to when under pressure, so Jab will probably win out by virtue of being faster on startup. I'm not sure whether Rapid Jab or Gentlemen will be more frequently used, or what situation one might be more optimal in, but we've definitely seen Ridley's using them when in a pinch. I don't expect that habit to break.
9. Dash attack. Ridley's looking to join the "Dash Attack kill move" club. Frame data is pretty good, and it seems like a generally fine burst option, provided you land it. If used sparingly, I think it will be effective in catching an unsuspecting opponent and eating their stock away. I feel like people are sleeping on this move.
10. Neutral B. Now, I'll be the first here to say that we aren't looking at a stellar set of special moves. Side B seems effective when used right, but there isn't much hope beyond that. Neutral B doesn't seem to do much to ameliorate this, but I think it will have its uses. Occasionally you might use the uncharged version as a mixup in neutral, but only sparingly. That is punishable. Then, of course, will be fully charging it to intercept your opponent's recovery offstage. It's gonna be obnoxious, but it's probably the best we can get from the move. For the most part, we might have to end up playing without the B Button :urg:.

Anyway, I guess that's my two cents on the matter. Hopefully we can all find out more about the character soon, and see how much he's got up his sleeve.
 

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I think the OP of this thread could use some updating now, starting with the official names for the specials and final smash. Maybe some other stuff too...
 
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Some things I've observed:
-USmash hitbox starts behind Ridley right from the ground. Could be good for mixups.
-You can act out of a whiffed SideB way earlier in the air than on the ground.
-Carrying people offstage with multiple Fairs can be effective for early kills.
-It's effective to poke people at the ledge with a down angled Ftilt.
 

quad_draxis

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Some things I've observed:
-USmash hitbox starts behind Ridley right from the ground. Could be good for mixups.
-You can act out of a whiffed SideB way earlier in the air than on the ground.
-Carrying people offstage with multiple Fairs can be effective for early kills.
-It's effective to poke people at the ledge with a down angled Ftilt.
In regards to USmash, you can actually use it similarly to Mario's in Smash 4, i.e. punish things like rolls and bad landings with run-up reverse USmash. I get quite a few kills with this as it is pretty easy and safe to confirm if you are watching your opponent carefully.
 

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Funny how after I first see some say that skewer/down B is too situational, I end of finding more and more instances to use it.

Is the OP of this thread ever gonna get updated btw?
 

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Funny how after I first see some say that skewer/down B is too situational, I end of finding more and more instances to use it.

Is the OP of this thread ever gonna get updated btw?
Very nice to see Skewer can work as a rapid jab punisher. It always makes me happy to see people discovering new things with Ridley.
 

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Very nice to see Skewer can work as a rapid jab punisher. It always makes me happy to see people discovering new things with Ridley.
I just find the idea of this hilarious. "Oh, you're going to try to chip my damage up with a natural jab combo? Well, you just let me hit you for 50, so eat that dose of pain."
 
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Funny how after I first see some say that skewer/down B is too situational, I end of finding more and more instances to use it.

Is the OP of this thread ever gonna get updated btw?
Does this work on all rapid jabs?
 

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Not the jabs whose finishers have more range according to the comments, but otherwise, yes. That still covers a lot of characters’ jabs though.
 
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