Data Ridley Moveset Data (Preliminary) - UPDATED with Dashing Grab Side B and Weak Point Info

Plino

 
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#42
Ridley has invincibility frames at the very least during the startup of his Side-B, as seen by how he just ignores Villager's Side-B projectile:

https://gfycat.com/ScrawnyUltimateIbisbill
Nah, not invincibility. Lloid Rocket is just inactive the first few frames it's out; it doesn't get a hitbox till it starts moving. It can still be hit by other attacks, and if they dish out enough damage it'll explode! But since SideB is a command grab and Lloid can't be grabbed, Ridley just went straight through it.

Source: not to toot my own horn but I'm THE Villager data guy.

Is it like Gannondorf's side-B, where if grabbed, Ridley'll suicide with em?
Hm, I'm not entirely sure actually. I need more Ridley gameplay footage to look at ha ha.
 

CrowGoesCaw

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#45
I'm pretty sure I saw a side b hit up in the air during one of the many clips I've watched. Ridley flew downward forward until he hit the ground and proceeded to drag them like usual.


I think I've also seen people break out of the floor grind, presumably the same way you do a grab, meaning low percents drags are unreliable. But I very well might be mistaking the Ridley player cancelling the drag early for the dragee breaking out. It's hard to tell.


It's a shame I've done most of my watching not own my own computer, so I haven't been able to bookmark the videos. Once the weekend is over (I work many hours in a weekend) I'll see if I can find these again and anything new.
 

Plino

 
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#46
I wonder how viable Down B -> Chase to another Down B for massive damage racking would be
Oh my god that sounds terrifying. It would require very finely-tuned spacing but it would be TERRIFYING.

https://youtu.be/fMipP89AtFI
Skip to 1:20 and focus on Ridley. You can see he grabs Pikachu while they're both a bit above the ground. He still drags Pikachu across the ground, so if left uninterrupted and unmashed, Ridley would fly down, slam the victim to the ground and run across the stage
I'm pretty sure I saw a side b hit up in the air during one of the many clips I've watched. Ridley flew downward forward until he hit the ground and proceeded to drag them like usual.


I think I've also seen people break out of the floor grind, presumably the same way you do a grab, meaning low percents drags are unreliable. But I very well might be mistaking the Ridley player cancelling the drag early for the dragee breaking out. It's hard to tell.


It's a shame I've done most of my watching not own my own computer, so I haven't been able to bookmark the videos. Once the weekend is over (I work many hours in a weekend) I'll see if I can find these again and anything new.
Hmmm, the question is whether or not Ridley is forced to keep diving down into oblivion if there is no solid ground underneath and force a suicide pact with his victim, ha ha. Maybe it's cancellable in the air? Idk.

I updated with more info on Side B started on the ground, on a grounded opponent. The damage values are all higher than the previously recorded ones, which makes me wonder if damage decreases the higher above the ground the move connects? I wholly expect it to be escapable by mashing, otherwise it would be ridiculous free damage for a relatively low opportunity cost.
 
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CrowGoesCaw

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#47
I updated with more info on Side B started on the ground, on a grounded opponent. The damage values are all higher than the previously recorded ones, which makes me wonder if damage decreases the higher above the ground the move connects? I wholly expect it to be escapable by mashing, otherwise it would be ridiculous free damage for a relatively low opportunity cost.

I should be sleeping, but instead i found the video that shows an inkling breaking out of the floor grind.

https://youtu.be/jrngO71qUkY?t=3m38s
 

Plino

 
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#48
Thanks! I'll take a good look at it later.

Also, I just found out that Ridley can jump cancel the dragging part of his Side B early, which throws the target for damage, so I added that.
 

JOE!

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#50
Oh my god that sounds terrifying. It would require very finely-tuned spacing but it would be TERRIFYING.
Dont see why people wouldnt at least try for it given time. What options do people have out of crumple, the same as techs? If so, I'd imagine you could start at least going for the 2-hit 100% damage read lmao
 

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#51
Also, do we know what causes Ridley to stand upright? Is it part of his idle animation or a taunt? Could be the former since I know in Brawl, Wolf's idle animation greatly changed his height going from standing upright to his lower, bent over stance.
Late and I didnt see if this was addressed yet, but it's a taunt.
 

Plino

 
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#52
Dont see why people wouldnt at least try for it given time. What options do people have out of crumple, the same as techs? If so, I'd imagine you could start at least going for the 2-hit 100% damage read lmao
It might be a pretty big trade-off though. You COULD go for the read and then get BIG DAMAGE AND crumple for MORE damage, but if you miss youll get punished for it and you miss out on the extra damage you could've gotten had you just gone for a smash or whatever.

High level Ridley play will be stupid hype tho
 

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#53
I don't have a link (sorry, I forgot which thread it's in), but there was a video where (I believe it was Mew2King playing) Ridley used his side-B on someone in the air with no ground below, they kept falling and nearly died, then Ridley let go at the last second, and they both went on to recover. So it seems Ridley can Ganoncide, but can even let someone go at the last second, saving himself. Perhaps that could be a strategy against characters with poor recovery.
 

Cutie Gwen

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#54
I don't have a link (sorry, I forgot which thread it's in), but there was a video where (I believe it was Mew2King playing) Ridley used his side-B on someone in the air with no ground below, they kept falling and nearly died, then Ridley let go at the last second, and they both went on to recover. So it seems Ridley can Ganoncide, but can even let someone go at the last second, saving himself. Perhaps that could be a strategy against characters with poor recovery.
You can escape Ganoncide by mashing so it could be that. Makes sense, a move that ignores shields, does a decent amount of damage and sends the opponent off of the edge of the stage every time would be broken
 

Keeshu

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#55
Is it like Gannondorf's side-B, where if grabbed, Ridley'll suicide with em?
I've seen someone do it, but I've watched so many ridley videos I don't know which one it was. Though in the one I saw Ridley let go just before they hit the blast zone. So Ridley-ciding is a thing, Though if the other person can cancel out of it (which seems to be the case at lower %s), then It's probably not so guaranteed of a kill like ganonciding was in Smash 4 where ganondorf never lets go.
 

stRIP

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#56
I'm still confused about what the dair and what the aerial downB is. Watched a lot of footage and I still only see the Bowser downB-like fall, which could be both the downB and dair.
 

StormC

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#59
I've seen someone do it, but I've watched so many ridley videos I don't know which one it was. Though in the one I saw Ridley let go just before they hit the blast zone. So Ridley-ciding is a thing, Though if the other person can cancel out of it (which seems to be the case at lower %s), then It's probably not so guaranteed of a kill like ganonciding was in Smash 4 where ganondorf never lets go.

Ridley suicides Snake off the stage at the 50 second mark here (not a sentence I thought I'd be typing a month ago...).
 

CrowGoesCaw

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#62
There are only four directions, but they are not the cardinal directions

Up goes directly up
Forward goes at about a 45 degree angle downward
Down goes down and slightly forward
Back goes backwards and slightly upward

Okay so I've seen a fifth direction, diagonally forward up. Basically an upward verson of the forward one I mention before. I've almost alway seen people travelling in the four directions I mentioned before, and very very rarely in this fifth direction. Maybe its the direction you go if you don't input a direction? I'm not sure.

It's a very useful direction for recovering, and I've seen a few people in the position to use it to recover, and then do the forward down one to their death. Not sure if they are trying to do this fifth one or just hoping an up-b forward will send them to ledge.

I wish I could test this game to figure Ridley out. The waiting game sucks. XD


Edit: Ooops double posted. My bad.
 
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#65
D-air is the ground pound/divestomp that also spikes.

Down B in the air is the same as on the ground, the slow tail stab.
I just wanna know what sweetspot down B does in the air. I figure it has to be an air stun like Ryu's air FA or it just launches you horizontally.
 

adom4

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#66
Counted some frames myself

I might've gotten this wrong and need to recheck, but uh, I think his jab is frame 3. Hot damn.
Yeah, i noticed it as well.
It's either frame 3 or 4 but either way it's going to be huge for him.
 

adom4

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#67
Some new direct feed gameplay:
Some things i noticed:
* You can jump out of aerial side-B
* Sweetspot down-B looks SUPER unsafe on shield and does almost no shield damage
* Sweetspot down-B seems incredibly small
* F-smash looks mad good, reminds me a lot of Ganon's old F-smash with the leanback, could be used the same way to avoid moves and hit back
* I really hope that Ridley's wings are intangible like Zard's, because it'll make U-tilt/U-air very scary
* F-tilt can be angled (here: https://youtu.be/KJeBylrZqUg?t=578)
 
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D

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#68
Some new direct feed gameplay:
Some things i noticed:
* You can jump out of aerial side-B
* Sweetspot down-B looks SUPER unsafe on shield and does almost no shield damage
* Sweetspot down-B seems incredibly small
* F-smash looks mad good, reminds me a lot of Ganon's old F-smash with the leanback, could be used the same way to avoid moves and hit back
* I really hope that Ridley's wings are intangible like Zard's, because it'll make U-tilt/U-air very scary
* F-tilt can be angled (here: https://youtu.be/KJeBylrZqUg?t=578)
I'm particularly interested in the interaction at 0:15 where Zelda trades late Dair with Ridley's Up-B.

Of course at this point we don't know the hitboxes exactly on either move but going slowly through it...

ridley-upb-trade1.png


ridley-upb-trade2.png

(Kind of hard to tell exactly but on the next advance of the video (not exactly 1 frame advance since this isn't 60fps footage) the hits/trade begins to register).

So it seems like Ridley's wings may be intangible(?) with the hitbox being along the lines of Corrin's Up-B in terms of behavior (i.e. Corrin's Up-B wings protect her head and can make it hard to challenge). That said, it's sort of hard to determine it fully here in part because I'm not sure of the characteristics of Zelda's Dair and if that part of her leg is/is not part of her hurtbox during the move.

----

I would also like to propose the possibility that Ridley's Nair has tipper sour/sweetspot behavior as opposed to early/late behavior. I'll have to look at the footage again but that's how I perceived it when I was going through things. This makes it extremely similar to Zard's Nair (which has obvious similarities already) in terms of the fact that Zard has the flame "tipper" hitbox on his tail during the move and doesn't have any late hit damage/kb changes.

While I'm at it, I'd also like to draw a comparison to Cloud's Nair, which as we know is circular in arc but again doesn't have any late hit damage/kb changes.

EDIT: Nairo just released a new batch of gameplay videos including one with Ridley, and I believe some Nair instances in this video support the idea that Ridley's Nair has tipper/sweet/sour behavior as opposed to early/late behavior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIps-I0SUqs


Okay, so right at the beginning of the match, we see Ridley hit Pikachu with the back part of Nair, doing ~5% damage, and here is the frame where the hitbox is registered:

ridley back sour nair.PNG
Now as we all know, visual effects in Smash don't exactly follow the hitboxes (see: Smash 4 MK), but I think in most cases they can provide decent approximations. So, if we consider the image here, we can clearly see that Pikachu is well within the radius of Ridley's tail arc when he gets hit by the Nair (hopefully the redish spark in the image marks the collision point within an acceptable margin). As such, he takes the minimum damage as he has been hit by the most "sour" of the Nair hitboxes.

ridley sour nair.PNG

Here we have Ridley landing an early Nair hit which did 9% damage, if Ridley were to have damage variation for his Nair based on early/late hit timing, then it follows that this should've done 11%. However, it does 9%; additionally, we can see that Pikachu is very slightly within the radius of Ridley's tail arc for the Nair, hence being damaged by the hitbox just inside of the tipper. (Note: I am assuming that move staling was not a significant factor considering the circumstances of the match up to this point).

Again, this is just speculation on my part, but I think the evidence here and in other footage - if I get around to going back through it - supports this.
 
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Plino

 
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#69
Thanks for all the video links everybody! I'll be sure to go through them all carefully when I'm home and update my information accordingly, especially with regards to NAir hitboxes.

Counted some frames myself

I might've gotten this wrong and need to recheck, but uh, I think his jab is frame 3. Hot damn.
Yeah, i noticed it as well.
It's either frame 3 or 4 but either way it's going to be huge for him.
Oops, I just noticed that I forgot to add in jab 1's hit frame. But yeah it's FAST. Not as fast as Smash 4 Mario of course (but then again, not a lot of people are lol), but it's as fast as Smash 4 Villager, which is still fantastic. It's definitely gonna help him out.

Hmm. Ridley dies, but snakes survives the suicide. Damn.
Seems it's kind of like Bowsercide then? Where even though he dies, his victim is freed at the last second for whatever reason and has a chance of jumping and recovering.
 

CrowGoesCaw

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#70
Seems it's kind of like Bowsercide then? Where even though he dies, his victim is freed at the last second for whatever reason and has a chance of jumping and recovering.
There is another possibility. Apparently people can break out of ganoncide and ridley's side b like a grab. So snake might have broken out and recovered while Ridley didn't react in time. Or it just works like bower's. Hard to tell.

Another thought, if you can jump out of the areial side b like you can on the ground version, then you can drag people low, dump them there and recover yourself. Against some characters this could be frightfully affective.
 

Plino

 
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#71
There is another possibility. Apparently people can break out of ganoncide and ridley's side b like a grab. So snake might have broken out and recovered while Ridley didn't react in time. Or it just works like bower's. Hard to tell.

Another thought, if you can jump out of the areial side b like you can on the ground version, then you can drag people low, dump them there and recover yourself. Against some characters this could be frightfully affective.
Yeah, it's kinda hard to tell for sure right now, since all three of those seem equally likely given the current footage. The last one is the most interesting one though. If it is indeed jump cancellable in the air, then we might have something like Kirbycide, Regicide, or Diddycide: dropping down close to the blastline, then ditching. That would be SICK and I think pretty darn in line with Ridley's character.
 

Cutie Gwen

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#72
Yeah, it's kinda hard to tell for sure right now, since all three of those seem equally likely given the current footage. The last one is the most interesting one though. If it is indeed jump cancellable in the air, then we might have something like Kirbycide, Regicide, or Diddycide: dropping down close to the blastline, then ditching. That would be SICK and I think pretty darn in line with Ridley's character.
It'd also be a neat little SSE Meta Ridley callback imo, that ************ was able to OHKO you by slamming the stage to under the blastzones
 

CrowGoesCaw

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#74
Science team has something to report.

I previously observed Ridley had a rare fifth direction for his up B. This was an error on my part. After rewatching the footage on a screen bigger than my phone's, I realised I was miss interpreting what was actually happening. Instead of a fifth angle in the direction of a forward upward angle, what I was actual seeing was Ridley using one of his air jumps to turn around and then do a backwards up B.

This means if you want a good recovery angle other than directly up, you will need to turn around in the air and do a backwards Up-B. Luckily Ridley is one of the few with more than one air jump and the ability that comes with it to turn around with those jumps.

This also means Ridley can turn around to change between threatening with his forward or backward air, which with his strong air game, is just a further notch in his aerial prowess.
 
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#76
Lloid doesn't have a hitbox during that time. It'd be great if Ridley could just ignore projectiles using side special.
Pretty sure that's what the up b is for, seems strong enough to plow through some weak projectiles. The only other times Ridley's been able to shrug off projectiles required some form of armour, like in Samus Returns. And speaking of Samus Returns, he actually uses purple flames in that game like he does in his side b.
 
D

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#77
In regards to the bonus damage that Ridley receives while charging his neutral special:



At about 3:24~ in the above we can see Ridley get hit by the edge of Inkling's Splat Bomb while charging and he still takes about 24% damage, so that may be a static amount of damage with a lot of extra hitstun?

I'm assuming in this case that the fringe hitbox of the splat bomb would be doing more than 2% (as Mario's Jab did when the mechanic was introduced), but that assumption may of course be wrong, but I thought it would be good to point this case out anyways as supplemental footage of the damage that Ridley takes while charging.
 
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Mc.Rad

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#78
I have no ideal if anybody talked about this in this thread, but it seems to me that Ridley actually has Super Armor on his UP-B.
https://youtu.be/QjPXPC2ONNs?t=1m2s

So uh... yeah... that's at least something scary...

I'm assuming that this doesn't take effect until after the move's start up.
 
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#79
I have no ideal if anybody talked about this in this thread, but it seems to me that Ridley actually has Super Armor on his UP-B.
https://youtu.be/QjPXPC2ONNs?t=1m2s

So uh... yeah... that's at least something scary...

I'm assuming that this doesn't take effect until after the move's start up.
It's not armour, otherwise Ridley would've taken some damage. His up b just out-prioritized his own fireballs due to them being weak individually and
the up b doing a lot of damage.
 

Mc.Rad

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#80
It's not armour, otherwise Ridley would've taken some damage. His up b just out-prioritized his own fireballs due to them being weak individually and
the up b doing a lot of damage.
Oh right, I actually forgot that there was damage priority in Smash Bros... :dizzy:
 
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