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Rex Drives into Battle! (...As Pyra's Final Smash!!)

BluePikmin11

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So I have been thinking about Pokemon and Greninja lately and connecting that to Sakurai's interview for the FE 25th anniversary and it has me asking several questions:

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/13/sakurai-fe25/


Interviewer: So once that project plan is set into motion, everything is already fixed.

Sakurai: If I had to offer up one exception from this time, it would be for Pokémon. We knew there was going to be a new release soon, so we left one spot open for a new Pokémon, and everything else continued according to plan. Adding or removing during the process directly impacts production costs and people’s workloads, so it’s not that easy to add or change things, and we take that into account.
Pokemon was the only franchise to get such a treatment. Would the project plan in early 2016 account Xenoblade 2 in mid-development? Would the 6-month timespan mentioned by Sakurai for FE characters be accounted? Can such exceptions even be considered at all in the roster plan if Pokemon Sun and Moon was very near in release in 2016? And how far does Sakurai look into the future to consider Switch content for Smash Switch? Would he get more funds from Nintendo's profit of Switch sales to allow last-minute unique characters like Rex to be developed if in the situation the 6 month rule is ignored with Xenoblade getting an exception. Is it easier for Sakurai to allow such additions to happen when it could affect production costs for Smash Switch, or would faster development time allow such late unique additions to be added.

So many more questions have been wrapping up in my mind since waking up this morning thinking about Xenoblade newcomers all of a sudden, I could use some answers.
 
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RawstyleEevee

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So I have been thinking about Pokemon and Greninja lately and connecting that to Sakurai's interview for the FE 25th anniversary and it has me asking several questions:

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/13/sakurai-fe25/




Pokemon was the only franchise to get such a treatment. Would the project plan in early 2016 account Xenoblade 2 in mid-development? Would the 6-month timespan mentioned by Sakurai for FE characters be accounted? Can such exceptions even be considered at all in the roster plan if Pokemon Sun and Moon was very near in release in 2016? And how far does Sakurai look into the future to consider Switch content for Smash Switch? Would he get more funds from Nintendo's profit of Switch sales to allow last-minute unique characters like Rex to be developed if in the situation the 6 month rule is ignored with Xenoblade getting an exception. Is it easier for Sakurai to allow such additions to happen when it could affect production costs for Smash Switch, or would faster development time allow such late unique additions to be added.

So many more questions have been wrapping up in my mind since waking up this morning thinking about Xenoblade newcomers all of a sudden, I could use some answers.
Xenoblade 2 had been in development since 2014 and its safe to say they had alot of the game done in 2016. Its also worth nothing that Monolith made X to develop an HD engin for their future projects.
 

SorrowOfAcheron

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So I just finished the XC2 story this morning at 5am (stayed up), clocking at 97 hours.
Wow, what an experience.

I used to dislike Rex & Pyra, probably because of the art style, but I've completely changed my mind in general about the characters.

I don't wanna go into a rabid rant of how much I love this game but Rex and Pyra get my support easily.
 

UGXwolf

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Apologies if this has already been discussed, but this is a thought that occurred to me. Rex and Pyra both take the same damage. It'd been interesting if she jumped in for certain moves and attacking Pyra did damage to Rex, as well. It would mean you'd have to be careful about moves that throw Pyra out there. It makes sense thematically and introduces an interesting wrinkle to the partner/puppet character we're already familiar with.

Maybe this would be difficult to balance, but in all honesty, I don't think balance was ever a deciding factor in who got it or how they worked. It always seemed like an afterthought in the case of Smash with the main objective being fan service and representation.

Well, regardless, I've been sold on Rex and Pyra for Smash since E3 of last year.
 

Opelucid

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I'm on Chapter 6 of XBC2 I've been hooked lately. Put me on the list of supporters I hope they make it in.
 

GolisoPower

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So lemme ask you guys something:

With Xenoblade 2 datamined and revealing some juicy details, this raises two questions:

- Since you can directly control Mythra in the Story DLC, do you think she should be a seperate character than Rex and Pyra?
- Shulk and Fiora are reward Blades for completing the Challenge Mode DLC. Do you think Shulk will get his Blade design as an alt costume if he has one?
 
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Kotor

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So lemme ask you guys something:

With Xenoblade 2 datamined and revealing some juicy details, this raises two questions:

- Since you can directly control Mythra in the Story DLC, do you think she should be a seperate character than Rex and Pyra?
- Shulk and Fiora are reward Blades for completing the Challenge Mode DLC. Do you think Shulk will get his Blade design as an alt costume if he has one?
- Xenoblade 2's main gimmick is the Blade mechanic. Sure, driverless blades are a thing with Brighid, Praxis & Theory, Herald, and even the Torna crew. It wouldn't capture the spirit of Xenoblade 2.

- KOS-MOS's design is based on her appearance in Xenosaga I. I think Shulk will have his main outfit. The design of his core crystal will probably be based on his neckless from his swimsuit model. Fiora's got two looks to go with: her Homs, and Mechon. Considering the Fiora we got in Project X Zone 2 was the Mechon form, I'm leaning towards that.
 

SmashChu

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Edit: He deleted the videos and tweet for some reason

I posted this in the general discussion thread but it kind of got drowned out, so I'll leave it here. A guy called Master of Hyrule leaked what Nintendo's E3 floor looks like, saying it focuses on Pokemon and Smash. He said that the Smash section will have various props on display, stuff like Fox's blaster, Duck Hunt's can, Bayonetta's gun heels, and Captain Falcon's helmet. The one that caught my eye though was the supposed Monado prop. He gave a partial picture of Smash 5's Battlefield as evidence, and last year he apparently had inside knowledge that Nintendo's E3 floor would look like New Donk City.

There was a problem fetching the tweet




While this could be true or false (I'm personally leaning towards believing it), what does everyone here think about the Monado prop? Assuming this is real, it was the only one he listed that seemed somewhat suspicious. The other characters with props he listed that weren't blatantly obvious like Mario were all Smash staples like Fox and Falcon (except Bayo and Duck Hunt, but Bayo is a big name who won the ballot and is basically a Nintendo character, and Duck Hunt is a gaming icon of sorts). I get that Nintendo is trying to push Xenoblade, but it still feels odd to have Shulk be one of the first characters we know about while being showcased at E3, especially considering his game in particular came out a long time ago. I think it could be like in Smash 4 when Kid Icarus was up there with Mario, DKC, and Pokemon in the initial reveal trailer, and it was later shown that Palutena was a newcomer. If the Monado really is there, a Rex & Pyra reveal at E3 is definitely in the cards.
Keep in mind that we're only a few months from the game's release. It's not surprising that they would show off more characters than usual, even Shulk. There is of course the fact we may see him in the Direct (check those spoilers above to see why, if you dare). Only odd thing about this is Duck Hunt's can tbh, but I can otherwise see this.

Also, yes, Core Crystals would be a great item.
 

BluePikmin11

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Topic: I have not really explored it until now, but I think I figured what would make Shulk, Elma, and Rex distinct. Shulk is basically a character who can change his stats through modes via neutral special. Elma could change weapons via neutral special for different set of aerial/standard attacks while stats for specials and Smash attacks remain the same. While Rex would be able to change his Blade via neutral for a different set of specials and adjusted stats. Do you feel all three are distinguishing enough to warrant all 3 in the game? I need opinions on the matter.
 

NintenRob

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Topic: I have not really explored it until now, but I think I figured what would make Shulk, Elma, and Rex distinct. Shulk is basically a character who can change his stats through modes via neutral special. Elma could change weapons via neutral special for different set of aerial/standard attacks while stats for specials and Smash attacks remain the same. While Rex would be able to change his Blade via neutral for a different set of specials and adjusted stats. Do you feel all three are distinguishing enough to warrant all 3 in the game? I need opinions on the matter.
Personally I think all three are naturally distinct from each and Elma especially doesn't need a gimmick to be different.

Rex should have a gimmick because that's just the natural way he should be implemented. It wouldn't make sense for him to be here without Pyra. I imagine will have Pyra on the field and keeping her near boosts his strength while he can also pass the blade to her for certain specials. Unlike Nana, I don't Pyra will interact with anyone unless attacking and therefore can't be knocked back or KOd, if she falls off-screen, I reckon she'll just warp to Rex the way player 2 warps to player 1 in Kirby and Subspace. Adding extra blades could be interesting but overall too much work that could over complicate things. As for Pyra's other forms, I honestly just expect Mythra Final Smash.
 
D

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Topic: I have not really explored it until now, but I think I figured what would make Shulk, Elma, and Rex distinct. Shulk is basically a character who can change his stats through modes via neutral special. Elma could change weapons via neutral special for different set of aerial/standard attacks while stats for specials and Smash attacks remain the same. While Rex would be able to change his Blade via neutral for a different set of specials and adjusted stats. Do you feel all three are distinguishing enough to warrant all 3 in the game? I need opinions on the matter.
I'm a huge fan of Xenoblade so I'll answer as best I can.

Elma isn't really comparable to anyone currently on the roster, much less Rex and Shulk. She's much faster than them and fights with dual short swords and dual guns, two weapon types not in Smash. Her moveset would most likely center around various multihit strikes with her swords and various gun streams, with a few Art references to stuff like Executioner or Hundred Shells in the normals.
As for her specials, they'd be oriented around positioning to emulate the Full Metal Jaguar class's strengths. Shulk has Back Slash, but Elma would take that to a whole other level. Something like Shadowstrike would function just like Back Slash, but there's so much more that can be done with it. Ghost Factory could function solely as a movement option/recovery move, Shadowrunner could apply a back attack bonus for a short while and maybe have a dash effect, Sliding Slinger could expose an enemy's back when she crosses them up, and a few of her normals like Hundred Shells could also have some of these secondary effects.
I guess Elma could have a stance mechanic of sorts but it makes a lot more sense for her to just use a 50/50 split of sword and gun moves to avoid overly complicating things. I mean, in X your equipped Arts stay the same regardless of the weapon last used. It's not like you get 8 gun arts and 8 sword arts that can only be accessed when you have the corresponding weapon equipped. The only move that changes is the auto attack, so if you really wanted to reflect this only the jab would change depending on what move she used last.
All of this adds up to a completely unique character that warrants an inclusion.

While at first glance Rex may seem a bit similar to Shulk, they really don't have anything in common aside from having a giant sword, and even that comes with its fair share of differences. While the Monado's beam is a sourspot that can even be delayed upon activation (Forward/Up Smash), the Aegis Sword doesn't have to function the same way. If anything, the extended beam would deal fire/light damage instead of being a sourspot. And while Shulk swings his sword relatively effortlessly considering how huge it is, Rex's weighty strikes are entirely different. He'd be much stronger than Shulk at the cost of mobility. Seriously, look how slow he runs with his sword out. I guess he'd also be a fast faller if him being a salvager is anything to go off of, contrasting Shulk's average base stats that are probably that way because of his Monado Arts. And Shulk's standout mechanic, the Monado Arts's stat mods, wouldn't be implemented with Rex unless you committed to a complicated and weird weapon switch system in which case Rex would be entirely different and this debate wouldn't exist.
I haven't even mentioned how aesthetically different a lot of Rex's attacks are. He has fire/lightbending feats, whether it be through spinning flame pillars or projectiles, and 3 of his Arts, Rolling Smash, Anchor Shot, and Double Spinning Edge, are very unique looking in appearance and/or function.
Then you have Blades, which bring with them two key things: an affinity link and Blade Specials. The affinity link would be a different take on Lucario's Aura, as a movement and other potential buffs would be granted at max affinity, but affinity would be tied to keeping Rex close to his Blade instead of getting damaged and therefore knocked away from them. In my moveset I have Pyra transforming into Mythra at max affinity to further indicate the buffs and bring with her elemental and Blade Special changes. Blade Specials on the other hand are a different take on a duo character. There's only one weapon between the two fighters, so one input only equates to a single move instead of two. I have Blade Specials 1-3 as Smash Attacks and level 4 as the Final Smash. There could be more weapon passes in the normals to further differentiate Rex from Rosalina and ICs, but they wouldn't be based off of anything in particular.
There's a whole different question as to how Blades would actually appear. Whether or not they walk on the stage behind Rex (my personal preference) or run around the background and only pop out for Blade Specials, that's up to you. But either way Rex stands out from the crowd.

After thinking about it for a bit, I personally don't think we'll get Rex in the base roster. I'm just not sure if Sakurai even knew of him back in 2016 and even if he did, whether or not he'd feel he could faithfully portray Rex without playing his game. Rex & Pyra are a good bet for DLC though. So in the end I do think we'll get all 3 of Xenoblade's protagonists, but not at release.
 
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FamicomDisk

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Topic: I have not really explored it until now, but I think I figured what would make Shulk, Elma, and Rex distinct. Shulk is basically a character who can change his stats through modes via neutral special. Elma could change weapons via neutral special for different set of aerial/standard attacks while stats for specials and Smash attacks remain the same. While Rex would be able to change his Blade via neutral for a different set of specials and adjusted stats. Do you feel all three are distinguishing enough to warrant all 3 in the game? I need opinions on the matter.
With these suggested concepts specifically, no, I don't think so. While they're different contextually - a Blade change is a pretty obvious difference to changing a Monado Art - presenting all three of them as characters with the neutral special gimmick doesn't make it feel unique, even if each neutral special modifies different attributes for each of them. It'd be like if every Zelda character could do something similar to transforming - it wouldn't work the exact same, but it wouldn't be a unique gimmick like Shulk's current neutral is.

But are the three of them different enough from each other with another concept? Absolutely. I don't think Rex or Elma would need to use the neutral special in that way at all. Elma uses dual swords/dual guns, a fighting style that isn't in Smash yet. I'll admit that I have no interest in having Elma join, but she definitely stands apart from the other two. This applies to Rex as well - with Xenoblade 2's big focus on Drivers and Blades together, I imagine that Rex would come with Pyra. I'm thinking she might be in the background like the Pokémon Trainer was in Brawl. She'd follow Rex as he moves, and the closer they are together, the more damage his attacks deal. This basic concept alone already gives him a huge unique factor to his playstyle - trying to stay as still as possible so that Pyra is right behind you would be a valid strategy, and he could favor defensive play, trying to get his opponents to come to him, where he can unleash devastating attacks if he's right next to Pyra.

So are the three of them distinct enough from each other? Rex and Shulk are, for sure, and while Elma doesn't have any super unique quality like they do, she does use weapons not yet available in Smash. But I don't think they'd need to utilize their neutral specials similarly to Shulk at all.
 
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PSIGuy

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Blade Switching basically means you'd have to have multiple movesets for a single character while loading different models in and out. That's a lot of work for a single character and loading models in and out constantly isn't great for performance (PKMN Trainer could lag when you swapped out for instance).

You can have a perfectly good Rex moveset focusing on a single Blade, there's still a lot to work with. Like chaining Rex's attacks into Pyra's attacks, building up affinity for stronger Blade Arts/specials, having Pyra handle some attacks in a take on the Ice Climber/Rosalina & Luma idea concept. This would also tie it closer to the game, where Pyra is the main heroine and her bond with Rex is a main focus.
 

BluePikmin11

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I'm a huge fan of Xenoblade so I'll answer as best I can.

Elma isn't really comparable to anyone currently on the roster, much less Rex and Shulk. She's much faster than them and fights with dual short swords and dual guns, two weapon types not in Smash. Her moveset would most likely center around various multihit strikes with her swords and various gun streams, with a few Art references to stuff like Executioner or Hundred Shells in the normals.
As for her specials, they'd be oriented around positioning to emulate the Full Metal Jaguar class's strengths. Shulk has Back Slash, but Elma would take that to a whole other level. Something like Shadowstrike would function just like Back Slash, but there's so much more that can be done with it. Ghost Factory could function solely as a movement option/recovery move, Shadowrunner could apply a back attack bonus for a short while and maybe have a dash effect, Sliding Slinger could expose an enemy's back when she crosses them up, and a few of her normals like Hundred Shells could also have some of these secondary effects.
I guess Elma could have a stance mechanic of sorts but it makes a lot more sense for her to just use a 50/50 split of sword and gun moves to avoid overly complicating things. I mean, in X your equipped Arts stay the same regardless of the weapon last used. It's not like you get 8 gun arts and 8 sword arts that can only be accessed when you have the corresponding weapon equipped. The only move that changes is the auto attack, so if you really wanted to reflect this only the jab would change depending on what move she used last.
All of this adds up to a completely unique character that warrants an inclusion.

While at first glance Rex may seem a bit similar to Shulk, they really don't have anything in common aside from having a giant sword, and even that comes with its fair share of differences. While the Monado's beam is a sourspot that can even be delayed upon activation (Forward/Up Smash), the Aegis Sword doesn't have to function the same way. If anything, the extended beam would deal fire/light damage instead of being a sourspot. And while Shulk swings his sword relatively effortlessly considering how huge it is, Rex's weighty strikes are entirely different. He'd be much stronger than Shulk at the cost of mobility. Seriously, look how slow he runs with his sword out. I guess he'd also be a fast faller if him being a salvager is anything to go off of, contrasting Shulk's average base stats that are probably that way because of his Monado Arts. And Shulk's standout mechanic, the Monado Arts's stat mods, wouldn't be implemented with Rex unless you committed to a complicated and weird weapon switch system in which case Rex would be entirely different and this debate wouldn't exist.
I haven't even mentioned how aesthetically different a lot of Rex's attacks are. He has fire/lightbending feats, whether it be through spinning flame pillars or projectiles, and 3 of his Arts, Rolling Smash, Anchor Shot, and Double Spinning Edge, are very unique looking in appearance and/or function.
Then you have Blades, which bring with them two key things: an affinity link and Blade Specials. The affinity link would be a different take on Lucario's Aura, as a movement and other potential buffs would be granted at max affinity, but affinity would be tied to keeping Rex close to his Blade instead of getting damaged and therefore knocked away from them. In my moveset I have Pyra transforming into Mythra at max affinity to further indicate the buffs and bring with her elemental and Blade Special changes. Blade Specials on the other hand are a different take on a duo character. There's only one weapon between the two fighters, so one input only equates to a single move instead of two. I have Blade Specials 1-3 as Smash Attacks and level 4 as the Final Smash. There could be more weapon passes in the normals to further differentiate Rex from Rosalina and ICs, but they wouldn't be based off of anything in particular.
There's a whole different question as to how Blades would actually appear. Whether or not they walk on the stage behind Rex (my personal preference) or run around the background and only pop out for Blade Specials, that's up to you. But either way Rex stands out from the crowd.

After thinking about it for a bit, I personally don't think we'll get Rex in the base roster. I'm just not sure if Sakurai even knew of him back in 2016 and even if he did, whether or not he'd feel he could faithfully portray Rex without playing his game. Rex & Pyra are a good bet for DLC though. So in the end I do think we'll get all 3 of Xenoblade's protagonists, but not at release.
Are there any notable statistical differences between Pyra and Mythra? I know they are both Attacker Blades and have different elemental powers, but they seem somewhat the same.
 

NintenRob

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Are there any notable statistical differences between Pyra and Mythra? I know they are both Attacker Blades and have different elemental powers, but they seem somewhat the same.
I suggest you look up their affinity chart. That's where their main difference lies I think (aside from element) one of which even has cut scene presence with it kinda being Shulks vision called foresight (I think)

Their combo moves are also different
 

BluePikmin11

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Would this playstyle for Rex/Pyra work?

Blades can be incorporated in Smash for a unique play-style. Rex and Pyra would be in the battlefield fighting, but Pyra would not engage in battle, and instead help the player with stat boosts. Rex would be a slow & heavy, but powerful sword user in the battle field The closer Rex is to Pyra in battle, the better the automatic stat boosts for the player. When Rex does more hits to the opponent via non-special move attacks, he gains an affinity level. When Rex reaches an affinity level, he can activate Pyra for a special move. The bigger the affinity level, the more powerful the special becomes. The max level of special Rex can reach is Level 4. However, Rex has a huge weakness. Pyra can be knock-backed from the battlefield if the player is not careful. Without Pyra, Rex will not be able to use his special moves or have the benefits of affinity/stat boosts, thus leaving him more vulnerable in battle. Basically, think of Rex as a riskier Ice Climbers.

I thought of it from scratch.
 
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FamicomDisk

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Would this playstyle for Rex/Pyra work?

Blades can be incorporated in Smash for a unique play-style. Rex and Pyra would be in the battlefield fighting, but Pyra would not engage in battle, and instead help the player with stat boosts. Rex would be a slow & heavy, but powerful sword user in the battle field The closer Rex is to Pyra in battle, the better the automatic stat boosts for the player. When Rex does more hits to the opponent via non-special move attacks, he gains an affinity level. When Rex reaches an affinity level, he can activate Pyra for a special move. The bigger the affinity level, the more powerful the special becomes. The max level of special Rex can reach is Level 4. However, Rex has a huge weakness. Pyra can be knock-backed from the battlefield if the player is not careful. Without Pyra, Rex will not be able to use his special moves or have the benefits of affinity/stat boosts, thus leaving him more vulnerable in battle. Basically, think of Rex as a riskier Ice Climbers.

I thought of it from scratch.
There’s a lot of interesting ideas there, but I’d change a few of them!

First up, the disadvantages Rex gets when Pyra is knocked away seem a little brutal to me. Stuff getting weaker makes more sense to me - Xenoblade 2 establishes that Drivers and Blades can be apart, they’re just weaker like that. So I think if Pyra is knocked out, then Rex should still have access to his special moves, but they’re weakened.

Also, I think that Pyra getting defeated might make things a little unfair. Unlike the Ice Climbers, who are pretty much stuck together at all times unless they’re knocked apart, Rex and Pyra are always a bit of a distance from each other, with Pyra being much slower than Rex is in battle since she’s focusing power on him. Assuming this works the same way in Smash, someone could easily just ignore Rex entirely and go after Pyra until she’s defeated, and Rex wouldn’t have any power to stop that since the player isn’t controlling Pyra. I think what would work better is if she can be knocked around to put space between her and Rex, but can’t be defeated. Maybe she can go temporarily unconscious or something if she’s hit enough, stopping her from using powers on Rex? That would allow the idea to work without putting Rex out of commission as soon as she’s attacked enough.

There’s also a plot issue that would complicate things - Rex and Pyra share damage. If Pyra is attacked, Rex will feel the pain, and vice versa. If Pyra can be attacked, then Rex would take damage.. meaning that someone could ignore Rex for the entire match and go for someone the player isn’t even controlling. Even if they allow Pyra to be KO’d, someone could slowly rack up her damage with moves that wouldn’t KO her, and then go after Rex when he has a ton of damage he couldn’t help. That’s one reason why I think she’d be better in the background - she can’t be damaged unless she jumps out to help Rex with an attack, where damage to her will also damage Rex.

Regarding your affinity idea, I think it’d work much better if it took inspiration from the elemental combo system instead of the affinity system! Xenoblade 2 has a system in combat where attacks of different elements can be used to place orbs on enemies, and then they can be broken to deal major damage. Here’s a video of someone using it to show you what I mean:


I think your idea could basically work the exact same as an elemental combo! Rex deals a bunch of hits using regular attacks, which will make an orb appear over the opponent. He can continue to do this up to a maximum of 5 orbs - then he can activate a Chain Attack special, where Pyra smashes the opponent. This will shatter all of the orbs, and deals huge damage - the more orbs an opponent has, the more damage and knockback it does! It wouldn’t work the exact same, since it doesn’t utilize elements besides Pyra’s fire, but it would be a good version of the idea that would work well in Smash!
 
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BluePikmin11

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I agree with the Rex-Pyra self inflict idea, but considering how many benefits I gave to Rex's play-style, I feel the self-inflict idea and Pyra being able to be knocked off would be enough to balance the character.
 

FamicomDisk

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I agree with the Rex-Pyra self inflict idea, but considering how many benefits I gave to Rex's play-style, I feel the self-inflict idea and Pyra being able to be knocked off would be enough to balance the character.
My biggest issue with it is how Rex can't really do anything about it. Imagine that a match starts, and the opposing player immediately starts beating up Pyra, simply ignoring Rex entirely, except maybe to knock him away so they can do more damage to Pyra. How can the Rex player stop this? Sure, he can do his best to attack, but if the opponent is good at dodging and keeping Rex away, then Rex has a huge disadvantage. Damage Pyra for a while, and then Rex can be taken down with a single Smash attack without ever having to go near him.

And by extension, if the opponent chooses to KO Pyra, then Rex loses access to all his specials (assuming the shared damage doesn't KO him too). That's half his moveset gone. Would Pyra eventually come back or something? If the opponent ignores Rex, then the specials are basically useless for the whole match. They're fun concepts, but I don't think they'd be entirely fair without some tweaking.
 
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BluePikmin11

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I guess Pyra could come back via Luma style. I imagine Rex being slow and powerful, but have the large melee range as Shulk, but also be slow as Ike for standard and air attacks to capably defend Pyra from attacks. The only openings the opponent would be able to take is when Rex's slow attacks are over and the ending lag period for Rex comes up. So careful attacks would have to be made just like Marth.
 

FamicomDisk

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Hm, alright. I think I'm imagining Rex and Pyra being a fair distance from each other unless you stop moving like in Xenoblade 2, making it easy to attack Pyra if Rex gets knocked away or moves around, which is why I imagine her being in the background to fix that. Are you imagining them moving side by side like the Ice Climbers?
 

3D Dillon

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Out of all the series that had their first fighter debut in Sm4sh, this is the one I expect to have another in this the most. Plus, I believe Rex will be the most recently existed character to be playable in Smash if he does.
 

PSIGuy

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The whole "Rex gets stronger when fighting near Pyra" idea just turns her into a ball-and-chain honestly. It's more of a limit for Rex than a boon and something any semi-competent opponent will abuse to no end.
 

FamicomDisk

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The whole "Rex gets stronger when fighting near Pyra" idea just turns her into a ball-and-chain honestly. It's more of a limit for Rex than a boon and something any semi-competent opponent will abuse to no end.
It’s based on how it works in Xenoblade 2, though - the closer they are to each other, the better they get. Rex is stronger, special moves build up quicker, and etc.

I imagine it working with Pyra in the background like Pokémon Trainer. I don’t think that Rex would be weak when far away - she would basically just make you stronger depending on how close you are, and he can still fight capably when he’s far away.
 

PSIGuy

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I understand that, I've beaten XB2. It's just not a fun mechanic playing "stay in range of your partner" when the other player knows the ranges too and how to take advantage of it. It works in a single player JRPG with a focus on positioning but that doesn't translate to fun gameplay in a fighting game. It doesn't really give off the vibes of "Driver and Blade fighting together" either, Pyra isn't passive in battle. She has to be able to handle Blade Arts.
 

FamicomDisk

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I understand that, I've beaten XB2. It's just not a fun mechanic playing "stay in range of your partner" when the other player knows the ranges too and how to take advantage of it. It works in a single player JRPG with a focus on positioning but that doesn't translate to fun gameplay in a fighting game. It doesn't really give off the vibes of "Driver and Blade fighting together" either, Pyra isn't passive in battle. She has to be able to handle Blade Arts.
That’s a fair point. How would you have it work? Have Rex be alone?
 
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PSIGuy

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I think I've posted this before, but I would have Pyra be on the field at all times. Whenever you use a 'Blade Art' (directional Special, Smash or aerial Smash) Pyra will take the lead and attack in Rex's places. Rex's 'Driver Arts' (every other attack + Neutral Special) build up 'Blade Arts' with each hit. Finally, you can cancel 'Driver Arts' into 'Blade Arts' for follow-up attacks. If Pyra is attacked, you can't use Blade Arts and your Blade Art level will decrease. She wouldn't be KOable like Popo; her affinity tether prevents her from flying away.

I think the important things to emphasize are Pyra and Rex fighting together and combining attacks, while deemphasizing the busy work of keeping Pyra safe (Blades aren't targetable in XB2). I do realize it's a bit lazy to elastic-band her back into place and it downplays a lot of Pyra's importance, but Pyra can't exactly die like Luma or Popo can without Rex being unable to fight.

This is just my opinion, mind. RPGs always have a lot of mechanics to draw from but that means you have to be careful with which mechanics you draw from. I've taken most of my moveset inspiration from the action-y elements (attack canceling from Driver Arts into Blade Arts) and the "build up little attacks into stronger ones" aspect of battles (auto-attack > Driver Art > Blade Art > Orbs and Chain Attack, or just Driver Art>Blade art here).
 
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I think I've posted this before, but I would have Pyra be on the field at all times. Whenever you use a 'Blade Art' (directional Special, Smash or aerial Smash) Pyra will take the lead and attack in Rex's places. Rex's 'Driver Arts' (every other attack + Neutral Special) build up 'Blade Arts' with each hit. Finally, you can cancel 'Driver Arts' into 'Blade Arts' for follow-up attacks. If Pyra is attacked, you can't use Blade Arts and your Blade Art level will decrease. She wouldn't be KOable like Popo; her affinity tether prevents her from flying away.

I think the important things to emphasize are Pyra and Rex fighting together and combining attacks, while deemphasizing the busy work of keeping Pyra safe (Blades aren't targetable in XB2). I do realize it's a bit lazy to elastic-band her back into place and it downplays a lot of Pyra's importance, but Pyra can't exactly die like Luma or Popo can without Rex being unable to fight.

This is just my opinion, mind. RPGs always have a lot of mechanics to draw from but that means you have to be careful with which mechanics you draw from. I've taken most of my moveset inspiration from the action-y elements (attack canceling from Driver Arts into Blade Arts) and the "build up little attacks into stronger ones" aspect of battles (auto-attack > Driver Art > Blade Art > Orbs and Chain Attack, or just Driver Art>Blade art here).
I like the idea of Auto-Attack > Driver Art > Blade Special in a combo system. If I'm reading it right, do all of the Blade Special moves level up with the meter? So are there 3 or 4 versions of each directional special/smash attack with different animations and properties, or do the animations just get powered up with more flames or something? And does using a Blade Special reset the meter or does it stay the same? I'm interested in how it would work.

That being said, I do think that affinity is mandatory; the bond between Driver and Blade is central to Rex & Pyra's character development and the combat system. If it's tied to positioning (which would work in a platform fighter) as long as Pyra follows Rex around I think it could work. Obviously she can't die though, so she needs some kind of pseudo-invincibility that comes with a penalty. An autoblock with a shield break effect could serve that purpose. That way affinity would only really decrease when Rex gets hit but you'd still have to watch out for Pyra's shield health.

For your moveset though I think you could incorporate it as a bonus to the combo system. Like staying near Pyra long enough uninterrupted when at level 3 upgrades the special to level 4, and unleashing a level 4 special gets them to max affinity and they gain a movement speed bonus for a short while. Or maybe the buff could be in play for the entire time the level 4 special is charged? I'm just throwing ideas out here.
 
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PSIGuy

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Blade Special moves would stay the same but become stronger. For instance I imagine some like Burning Sword being the recovery (since the two jump and attack with the sword, it'd let them recover together a la Ice Climbers) and the higher your Blade Art level is, the further you go. Some Smash attacks would be the "mid-air sword spin shooting out flames" (Prominence Revolt iirc) which increases the damage dealt but not knockback. Others would increase knockback more.

I sort of imagine affinity could be tied to Blade Arts, they're not the same mechanic but generally as you start gaining higher level Blade Arts you'll have gained affintiy because of the nature of combat. You could have the 'ether tether' between them change color to represent them getting stronger to clearly demonstrate to players that their next Blade Art will be stronger and they'll be stronger in battle for a while. If Rex starts out slow and speeds up as he gains Blade Arts that might be a good way to demonstrate their Blade Art/Affinity getting stronger. Again, I'm fudging elements a bit here. The shield health thing on Pyra would be neat, by shield break I assume you mean Rex becomes unable to fight if Pyra is targeted too much? Reminds me of the Vandham (and other) battle scenes where he overextends and both of them get exhausted.
 

Opelucid

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I just finished the game, what do you guys think Rex's Final Smash will be? Do you think it'll just be a Chain Attack, Pyra/Mythra'a Level 4 special or Pneuma?
 

FamicomDisk

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I just finished the game, what do you guys think Rex's Final Smash will be? Do you think it'll just be a Chain Attack, Pyra/Mythra'a Level 4 special or Pneuma?
My guess would be a Chain Attack where other party members jump in to help (my guess would be Nia and Tora or Morag), similar to how Dunban and Riki jump in for Shulk's!
 

Kotor

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I just finished the game, what do you guys think Rex's Final Smash will be? Do you think it'll just be a Chain Attack, Pyra/Mythra'a Level 4 special or Pneuma?
I'd go with the Level 4 Special. Shulk already covers Chain Attack. I suppose it could still have a a cinematic to it like Shulk's final smash does.
 

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It took me a long time, but I think I finally found Xenoblade 2 characters to be alright now. The more Blade side-quests and Heart-to-Hearts I tried, the more I liked all of the characters, even if the main story is eh. I plan to finish this game before E3. It will be over soon. (I just gotta complete the Blade Quests for all of the main Blades, then I will let this game go, I will swear by that.) ((And, Nia is still my favorite))
 
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Kotor

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It took me a long time, but I think I finally found Xenoblade 2 characters to be alright now. The more Blade side-quests and Heart-to-Hearts I tried, the more I liked all of the characters, even if the main story is eh. I plan to finish this game before E3. It will be over soon. (I just gotta complete the Blade Quests for all of the main Blades, then I will let this game go, I will swear by that.) ((And, Nia is still my favorite))
Godspeed on Ursula's quest.
 

Reila

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I would rather have Elma. Xenoblade 2 characters look super weird.
 

SmashChu

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So there is something I noticed that could help Rex's chances. For whatever reason, each game has (at least tried to) add a duo character. Melee introduced the concept with Ice Climbers. Brawl was going to have this with Diddy and Dixie but it was scrapped later one. And you have Rosalina and Luma for Smash 4. It may be that Sakurai just likes this style. I think it could help Rex and Pyra because they can add an interesting twist on a series staple.

It took me a long time, but I think I finally found Xenoblade 2 characters to be alright now. The more Blade side-quests and Heart-to-Hearts I tried, the more I liked all of the characters, even if the main story is eh. I plan to finish this game before E3. It will be over soon. (I just gotta complete the Blade Quests for all of the main Blades, then I will let this game go, I will swear by that.) ((And, Nia is still my favorite))
The characters are what really make the game, namely the supporting cast. Nia is obvious, but Morag, Zeke, Tora and their Blades are great too. The biggest issue is Rex is bland (been there, seen that protag) and the villains have dumb anime powers. I thought the story was great, personally.
 

Banjodorf

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So there is something I noticed that could help Rex's chances. For whatever reason, each game has (at least tried to) add a duo character. Melee introduced the concept with Ice Climbers. Brawl was going to have this with Diddy and Dixie but it was scrapped later one. And you have Rosalina and Luma for Smash 4. It may be that Sakurai just likes this style. I think it could help Rex and Pyra because they can add an interesting twist on a series staple.


The characters are what really make the game, namely the supporting cast. Nia is obvious, but Morag, Zeke, Tora and their Blades are great too. The biggest issue is Rex is bland (been there, seen that protag) and the villains have dumb anime powers. I thought the story was great, personally.
I actually ended up really liking Rex's character by the end of the game. Sure, he's not exactly an archetype that hasn't been done before, the bleeding heart but determined protagonist, but he had a few quirks and by the end of the game I really enjoyed him. I didn't enjoy him as much as say, Shulk, but I still think he was pretty alright. The supporting cast was definitely the strong point of the game.

I utterly despise the majority of the villains. Their writing tried to be more compelling than it was, and most of them ended up feeling like caricatures or their plot just didn't make sense when you put it under a microscope. Looking at you, samuraiboi.

The story was super great though, especially the last few chapters, and the huge twist was something I did not see coming. Kudos to the writing team.

As for the tag characters, I wouldn't put stock in say, there needing to be one. I think Rex+Pyra just happen to have enough of a unique concept going for them that Sakurai would consider them strongly, especially since we know he loved the game.
 
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