Reviewing Sheik's Footstool Jump Combo

[Leafplayer452]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3je-k53-DU&feature=channel

Using this combo, in an actually match would be amazing to some, but instead of doing usmash at the end of the combo, why not continue it with a couple of ftilts? (Because, at the start of the combo unless your fighting Wario, you are going to use ftilt to start the whole combo. So thats already 1x decayed ftilt and the in the combo alone without the usmash in the vid would be 4 hits on the decay chart; excluding the previous attacks) Also, the part when you use needle strom, followed by a single needle, your opponenet can't roll to get back on their feet, they have to stand up in place which makes a perfect timing to run to your opponenet to start ftilt'ing.

So that brings me to this question: When doing the Footstool Jump combo, can you continue with a couple of ftilts to get a perfect true combo?

Also, I've been doing some thinking about this topic with Tristan_Win and according to his Decay Chart thread, Marth dies from a 3x decayed ftilt to usmash around 84% and 95% (probabally without DI from the Marth) and most likely, the Marth will be around those %s when you are done with the Footstool Jump Combo.

Could this be our secret weapon to defeating Marth? Or even Ice Climbers?

NOTE: NONE OF THIS HAS ACTUALLY BEEN TESTED

 

[Zankoku]

You can't footstool combo Marth. It's hilarious to even talk about anything involving grab releases on Ice Climbers.

 

[kingcobra9]

does this work if they other person tries to get out of it...i doubt that is going to win the match for you unless it could kill but i doubt it works as well at highter percentage

 

[Leafplayer452]

You can't footstool combo Marth. It's hilarious to even talk about anything involving grab releases on Ice Climbers.

Lol, thanks for the info I guess

 

[Zankoku]

Well, the footstool combo itself relies heavily on the character being fat enough to get hit by needles when OTG. ROB, Samus, and Wario satisfy this criterium. Marth doesn't. Ice Climbers might, but unless there's only one of them at the moment, it seems largely an attempt in futility, and Sheik should have a simple enough time dealing with just one Ice Climber... as long as you avoid the chaingrab.

 

[Leafplayer452]

Yea, to me it all seems possible on Ice Climbers, unless the other Climber gets hit by the needles, or if my opponenet controls the other Climber to come and attack/grab me (if that is even possible)

 

[Tristan_win]

Footstools and grab releases do have potential to be very useful for sheik and if it wasn't for online play I would of already tried to add them into my play.

by the way this video taught me a lot just now even though I've seen it before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i85euqQhlS4&feature=channel

 

[stealth3654]

Sheik can't do this combo on IC since you can only footstool one of them.

I can see this working on quite a few characters. Does any one know if Sheik is fast enough to be able to get on the other side of the opponent after the needle and get the ftilt in? If Sheik can, then Sheik won't have to worry about running out of stage to continue this combo since it will keep on going back and forward.

 

[Leafplayer452]

..Testing is need, any volunteers?

 

[saviorslegacy]

The foot stool is very useful on certain characters. I might test a little tomorrow and post what my results are. That is if I have the time to do it.

 

[Leafplayer452]

Sheik can't do this combo on IC since you can only footstool one of them.

I can see this working on quite a few characters. Does any one know if Sheik is fast enough to be able to get on the other side of the opponent after the needle and get the ftilt in? If Sheik can, then Sheik won't have to worry about running out of stage to continue this combo since it will keep on going back and forward.

Its a possibility, but again we need to test this out.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Sheik can't do this combo on IC since you can only footstool one of them.

I can see this working on quite a few characters. Does any one know if Sheik is fast enough to be able to get on the other side of the opponent after the needle and get the ftilt in? If Sheik can, then Sheik won't have to worry about running out of stage to continue this combo since it will keep on going back and forward.

*Wont work
They have to be at a certain percent to be footstolled. Thus doing it as an infinite will not work.
This is only good if you have Needles and you are f-tilt locking them. None the less it does have a lot of potential. (Just because you get a Bair, all Needles and the next attack is a guarantee).
So we are talking about what.... 30% here? (This is just guess work below.)
You might be able to even do the following.
f-tilt lock> footstool> Bair> Needles> f-tilt> USmash> WIN!!!!!!!
That might work. IDK though.. I'll test later.

 

[Tristan_win]

You know, if someone become good enough at the footstool(I'm talking about not using needles after the bair) Sheik could once again have a tech chasing game. Sheik great tools for tech chasing are all still there and we even got a new ones like the chain. Seriously think about it, if you read someone roll correctly you could have them roll right into a chain lock maybe although you probability(haha, I'm so unsure it could work) need to start it pretty early. Vanish could also work pretty well since it does 15% damage and gives sheik inv frames and has a good blast zone which can beat get up attacks. Obviously ftilt will for the majority of the time be the best option but if you want to keep it for the most part undecay you could use other attacks like theses.

 

[saviorslegacy]

You know, if someone become good enough at the footstool(I'm talking about not using needles after the bair) Sheik could once again have a tech chasing game. Sheik great tools for tech chasing are all still there and we even got a new ones like the chain. Seriously think about it, if you read someone roll correctly you could have them roll right into a chain lock maybe although you probability(haha, I'm so unsure it could work) need to start it pretty early. Vanish could also work pretty well since it does 15% damage and gives sheik inv frames and has a good blast zone which can beat get up attacks. Obviously ftilt will for the majority of the time be the best option but if you want to keep it for the most part undecay you could use other attacks like theses.

I like that idea. (gets eager to go test)
Well thanks leaf... you just made me sell my night!
I'll post what I find later tonight.

 

[stealth3654]

*Wont work
They have to be at a certain percent to be footstolled. Thus doing it as an infinite will not work.
This is only good if you have Needles and you are f-tilt locking them. None the less it does have a lot of potential. (Just because you get a Bair, all Needles and the next attack is a guarantee).

I was thinking that you might be able to continue it until their % is too high to continue it, then finish it off like you said: ftilt > up smash. You only need one needle to force them to do a regular get up.

 

[Zankoku]

Considering the full footstool combo consists of ftilt *foostool* > bair >needlestorm > needle (total of four attacks), you'll never get more than .18 decay (a little less than two consecutive ftilts) on the ftilt, which kind of limits your possibilities. Also, at a high enough %, hitting even an OTG'd opponent with bair will have enough power to launch them off the ground, which won't let you continue the combo.

I think the footstool combo itself can't really see more than two iterations per stock, and that's if you get lucky with the %.

Far more worth it to simply go for the full combo of ftilt *footstool* > bair > needle storm > needle > usmash, or even ending with a grab instead of usmash, rather than trying to go for a reset. Also, against characters that can actually be tiltlocked, don't bother, obviously.

 

[Tristan_win]

Considering the full footstool combo consists of ftilt *foostool* > bair >needlestorm > needle (total of four attacks), you'll never get more than .18 decay (a little less than two consecutive ftilts) on the ftilt, which kind of limits your possibilities. Also, at a high enough %, hitting even an OTG'd opponent with bair will have enough power to launch them off the ground, which won't let you continue the combo.

I think the footstool combo itself can't really see more than two iterations per stock, and that's if you get lucky with the %.

Far more worth it to simply go for the full combo of ftilt *footstool* > bair > needle storm > needle > usmash, or even ending with a grab instead of usmash, rather than trying to go for a reset. Also, against characters that can actually be tiltlocked, don't bother, obviously.

well if we are talking damage here then instead of using the usmash we should use the fsmash it does more damage and it isn't useful enough to save for killing like the usmash is also since we know where they will be standing back up it should be easy enough to get the thigh part of the leg on them which more or less guarantees the 2nd kick

Oh, come to think of it couldn't someone di the needle storm and thus smash di themselves away which would limit are options to the usmash, dash attack and dash grab?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Alright... it needs more testing but this is something that I found.


f-tilt> footstool> Bair> f-tilt> footstool> Bair> f-tilt> footstool> Bair> Needle's> FSmash

 

[Zankoku]

well if we are talking damage here then instead of using the usmash we should use the fsmash it does more damage and it isn't useful enough to save for killing like the usmash is also since we know where they will be standing back up it should be easy enough to get the thigh part of the leg on them which more or less guarantees the 2nd kick

Oh, come to think of it couldn't someone di the needle storm and thus smash di themselves away which would limit are options to the usmash, dash attack and dash grab?

Alright... it needs more testing but this is something that I found.


f-tilt> footstool> Bair> f-tilt> footstool> Bair> f-tilt> footstool> Bair> Needle's> FSmash

Tristan was right about the second part - you'll usually have to run to reach the opponent in time when he gets up, and fsmash is not easy to perform directly from a run. Double hit usmash hits for strictly more damage than anything else, which is what you'll get for a few characters. Otherwise, you can always just go with a grab.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Forget the Needle's.

SHEIKS NEW INFINITE

(This can start to work on Mario at 37%.)
f-tilt> footstool> FFBair (weak hit)> f-tilt> footstool> FFBair (weak hit)> f-tilt> footstool> FFBair (weak hit)> f-tilt> footstool> FFBair (weak hit)> f-tilt> USmash

Guess what one of the things that makes this combo work? That's right Ankoku, decay. This COMBO decays while you perform it. However even with out decay it is almost impossible to escape. With decay it is a true combo.

There you go. The only problem is landing all of those footstools.
It took me FOREVER to do a 37% to death on Mario. So the success of this combo rides on the skill on the player. coughIceClimberscough

Because this is 35/37 to death that means that we have the slight chance of finding the correct moves to make Sheik the second character (next to IC's) (oh and ZSS doesn't count since hers only works on ROB) to have a 0 to death combo!

 

[Zankoku]

How are you getting the footstool after that next ftilt, running on -.08 decay, after an ftilt bair (about 11% damage)? What kind of escape attempt are you testing against?

 

[Crossjeremiah]

.... did you account di. and ukemi. and all the other attributes. and you can backair soft hit everytime?

 

[saviorslegacy]

How are you getting the footstool after that next ftilt, running on -.08 decay, after an ftilt bair (about 11% damage)? What kind of escape attempt are you testing against?

You are hitting with the weak part of Bair. I can barely do it on Mario. I can do it just fine on Bowser though (no duh). So I will upload what little bit I done with Mario and what I done with Bowser so you know what it looks like. My bro is playing Halo right now and I his computer is the only one that works with the capture card. So I will have to wait.

Until then I will do my best to explain in depth what I am doing and what is happening.


f-tilt> footstool (they will do their normal belly flop landing)> FFBair (you perform it before you reach the foe so they will get hit be the weak hit) *note* You just barely catch them before they can get up. (when the Bair connects they will flop on the ground and you can perform f-tilt before they get a chance to get up)

When my bro was Bowser we tested everything but that's Bowser. When we tested Mario he was able to escape but on my error. We didn't spend a lot of time testing but I am pretty confident to say that this is a true combo and if it isn't then it is REALLY **** close.

things used to get out of the combo:
jumping
up B
Nair
Smash DI
L/R

The only thing that might let you get out of this is Smash DI away from Sheik and Nair. However you don't have time to move the analog back so it will be Bair. (Anyone with a really quick Bair?)


:EDIT: Once the footstool connects they are doomed. That part is flawless. It's the getting to that part that I am worried about.

 

[Zankoku]

I'll run some actual in-game testing on this when I have the chance. Keep in mind that attempting this on Bowser is rather silly since you should just be performing the normal ftilt lock and ftilt combos on him.

 

[Leafplayer452]

Forget the Needle's.

SHEIKS NEW INFINITE

(This can start to work on Mario at 37%.)
f-tilt> footstool> FFBair (weak hit)> f-tilt> footstool> FFBair (weak hit)> f-tilt> footstool> FFBair (weak hit)> f-tilt> footstool> FFBair (weak hit)> f-tilt> USmash

Guess what one of the things that makes this combo work? That's right Ankoku, decay. This COMBO decays while you perform it. However even with out decay it is almost impossible to escape. With decay it is a true combo.

There you go. The only problem is landing all of those footstools.
It took me FOREVER to do a 37% to death on Mario. So the success of this combo rides on the skill on the player. coughIceClimberscough

Because this is 35/37 to death that means that we have the slight chance of finding the correct moves to make Sheik the second character (next to IC's) (oh and ZSS doesn't count since hers only works on ROB) to have a 0 to death combo!

Im loving to where my first post got us

 

[saviorslegacy]

I'll run some actual in-game testing on this when I have the chance. Keep in mind that attempting this on Bowser is rather silly since you should just be performing the normal ftilt lock and ftilt combos on him.

I know but I needed a big target to practice on.

BTW... names anyone?

 

[Schwaumlaut]

fsmash is not easy to perform directly from a run

Would foxtrot~> stutter stepped fmash work?

 

[Leafplayer452]

I know but I needed a big target to practice on.

BTW... names anyone?

Ninja Air Juggle

 

[Zankoku]

I'd be fine calling it something functional. Ftilt lock, footstool variant.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I'd be fine calling it something functional. Ftilt lock, footstool variant.

Meh needs ah name. Not something named after someone and no birds. <,< All and all... needs ah name.


BTW... tested any Ankoku?

:EDIT:
Call me a nerd but I want to call it a Latin name.
sultas= latin noun for jump
saul-tus
So basically I am calling it the jump combo.

Thus I want to call it the Sultas Combo

 

[Leafplayer452]

Well you are the founder of the infinite, so I guess you have the right to name it whatever you want, unless you want the public opinion

 

[sniperworm]

Why don't you call it something easy to recognize, like "Shiek's Footstool Infinite" or something along those lines?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Why don't you call it something easy to recognize, like "Shiek's Footstool Infinite" or something along those lines?

Cuz that is dry and we already have a ton of stuff like that.
ie f-tilt lock, chain lock, f-tilt> USmash, DACUS (Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash)
If I have a say so (and I do) I want anything that is new like this to have an actual name. I think it gives more character to a... character.


To Leaf:
I do want the communities opinion since we are all working on Sheik. I already gave my opinion. Unless someone comes up with something that everyone else or I like a lot it will stay at what I have coined it.

 

[sniperworm]

This must be funny as heck if you do it to someone. It's like they're a Goomba and we're jumping on them to kill them, lol (it would've been totally hilarious if Mario could do something like this).

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

call it the raven combo. Keep the bird themes!!!

 

[Leafplayer452]

Cuz that is dry and we already have a ton of stuff like that.
ie f-tilt lock, chain lock, f-tilt> USmash, DACUS (Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash)
If I have a say so (and I do) I want anything that is new like this to have an actual name. I think it gives more character to a... character.


To Leaf:
I do want the communities opinion since we are all working on Sheik. I already gave my opinion. Unless someone comes up with something that everyone else or I like a lot it will stay at what I have coined it.

Well I gave my opinion also, Ninja Air Juggle

 

[rinoH]

we should actually test this extensively before we can name it great idea though saviorslegacy

 

[Zankoku]

Okay, the lot of you can come up with silly names. I'm still writing it in for what it is when I compile my tutorial vid. : P

 

[sniperworm]

Okay, the lot of you can come up with silly names. I'm still writing it in for what it is when I compile my tutorial vid. : P

So is this confirmed as inescapable?

 

[saviorslegacy]

So is this confirmed as inescapable?

I have spent the last two hours testing every character thoroughly. If my estimates are correct I will have a thread up by about 9 pm EST showing all that this can do, what percents it works at, how hard it is to do on a certain character, if it works or not (problem child Diddy ) and if the foe can DI very well during the combo.

After that I plan on extending my research and seeing if we have anymore options with this infinite.

ps I will also have a video up tonight.


pss This absolutely ***** MK.