Returning from Ledge Options

[EdreesesPieces]

I'm relatively new to Yoshi and one of the biggest parts of my game I always like to work on when working on a new character is returning from the ledge, it's such an important yet un-discussed part of a character. So I'm wondering what you guys think of these options in general - I want to get a feel for whats safe, what works and what doesn't since I don't entirely have the experience yet.

-Get up attack: Not bad, but can be shield grabbed.

-Rolling up: His roll up is so weird, it's diffferent. I get the feeling it works well against people without much yoshi experience.

-Dropping down and jumping up with an aerial - I don't feel comfortable doing this too much with yoshi unless the opponest is relatively away but maybe I"ll get over it with ONE excpetion:

-Dropping down, doing a turn-around jump and back airing. Maybe you guys have a term for it, but i LOVE the fact that you can change directions in the air just by using your second jump with yoshi. It's sooooo useful. I like top drop off the ledge, quickly do a turn-around jump and it allows me to do a back-air back onto the stage, and back air is pretty good so I feel safe doing this. You just need quick fingers so not to drop off too far or jump too far away before jumping back on the stage. This is probably known I was wondering if you guys use it a lot?

-Probably the most common: throw a bunch of eggs until they back off. Haha, this seems to work well, but I want to try to mix it up.

-Jumping into an air dodge. Not a bad option.

 

[Shiri]

All of those are viable options that should be mixed up regularly.

You shouldn't really have a "plan of attack" when you're getting up from the edge, as Yoshi's options should always appear to come out "at random" from the opponent's point of view.

Your ledge options aren't limited as much by players with experience, but more by certain characters. For example, if Pikachu stands a character length away from the edge, he can avoid and punish most basic forms of edge recovery with simple smashes.

The safest option, period, is tossing eggs.

The option that works best, I think, is turnaround back aerial.

The basic getup options are nominal, but you want to be careful of the character you're facing, as some are able to quickly and lazily punish you, while others do not have that luxury. Basic getup options above 100% are limited to getup attack, and even that is not really that good. The others you shouldn't even consider.

My favorites are the ones involving attacking with the double jump. Turnaround back air, rising down aerials for tall/fat characters, rising forward air for short characters/characters with small shields, up air poking under the stage (so darn good, it's almost unfair). You can also use jump to airdodge (which you mentioned), and jump to a buffered neutral air right off the edge. The burst hitbox is absolutely delicious and is a great surprise move.

My personal recommendation for you is not only to practice which edge options you like, but also to practice getting used to the double jump and the Up+B near the edge on different stages. It's important to know how Yoshi will react when you perform those two actions at varying distances from the edge and it's great for knowing how to do things like getting yourself "unstuck" from the lip on Final Destination and how to toss eggs when you're underneath and behind the edge you want to grab. All of these will benefit your ledge game immensely.

Have fun.

 

[JOE!]

ive also dropped, risen just near the ledge again and egg-lay the baddie, works on occasion and if you pull it off, you're home-free

 

[Chaco]

I do the waveland DR get up now. Most useful, period.

 

[Elefterios]

you do know that you are vulnerable when you dr right?

 

[Shiri]

We're vulnerable during everything, really.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think he means that you don't have a hitbox out to protect you so you are especially vulnerable. But I'm going to get a solid Yoshi and learn the basics really well before I delve into DRing.

I appreciate your post Shiri, that helps a LOT.

 

[Metatitan]

welcome to the yoshi boards edrees. junkinthetrunk was teaching me ways to be less predictable with recovering from the ledge, u can fake them out into thinking ur gonna land midstage and groundpound near the ledge instead. i live in socal so we can do some yoshi dittos sometime. and u can 3 stock me with ur peach (i would really appreciate it since u are the best peach)


-edit- a double jump canceled egg toss can sometimes put u back on the ledge

 

[Furbs]

yoshis getup attack has a hitbox behind it which can edgeguard as well

 

[Metatitan]

yoshis getup attack has a hitbox behind it which can edgeguard as well

seems a tad situational but good to know

 

[bigman40]

Sockz and I were talking about a good option (Egg roll from ledge) to use when your opponent is anywhere from about 2 character lengths away to about midstage. It's a decently good tactic to surprise people, and it's priority is pretty good to cancel out other opponent's grounded attacks (if they do it fast enough), but it pretty much gets screwed by aerial attacks (Like using this option on a Marth that likes SH Fairs would end up in you getting hit). It can place you on the other side of the stage, so you'll be at a fairly comfortable spot after getting knocked off.

DR waveland is good, but it's mostly a useful option when your opponent isn't up in your face, or even close enough to you to attack with anything other than a projectile. I like using this a few times cause you can at least go into the shield if they attempt to pressure you back offstage, or you can just use a tilt to push them away if they charge at you after you use this move.

Imo, idk how useful this might be since it's fairly easy to predict if you don't do this as you're recovering (meaning skip grabbing the ledge). You can attempt to make your opponent think that you're going to sweetspot the ledge, but then you just land over the ledge and egg lay them. It's very risky if they're sitting back, but it's one of the better options if they're like all over the ledge.

So yeah, that's a few I know. Most of the other things have been said already so I didn't bother on commenting on them.

 

[Airborne]

hey scatz that gives me an idea.... if you egg roll onto the stage from ledgehopping, you could get a bouncing egg roll..... would you be able to get the super armor or whatever to go through a mine next to the ledge on the bouncing frames?

 

[bigman40]

hey scatz that gives me an idea.... if you egg roll onto the stage from ledgehopping, you could get a bouncing egg roll..... would you be able to get the super armor or whatever to go through a mine next to the ledge on the bouncing frames?

I never tested that, but I'm pretty sure the heavy armor frames won't carry through the mine

 

[Nul]

My Absol-ute favorite recover from ledge is drop, turn-around DJ, Bair a tad early to Nair.

The Bair should connect on the 2nd-last frame 1st hit, usually they will shield, then you Nair. It pops out fast and they have to turn around to do anything to you, most people's instinct after the Bair is grab or Fsmash, and that means, no shield, Teh Boot in in their face!

If they wise up, follow with a Dtilt, you have virtually no lag on the Nair land, and almost no-one is shielding after that pressure, the only option they really have is jump or side-step, which you can Uair/Toss on retreats or Dtilt again respectively.

Now, if they can manage to get around that consistantly (and the people in my school just don't edgeguard me anymore, I've broken more than my fair share of shields), here are my suggested mix-ups:
1) if they are close (usually grabbers), drop to DJ to Uair, and do it fast.
2) back off, DJ to an early Fair, so you can hit them (their feet), but you'll be back on the ledge
3) follow the same approach for my fav recover, but jump earlier, airdodge, and Nair or Bair
4) if far, (spammers or tether grabs) just get up
5) toss a quick egg then get up
6) drop, DJ and get over stage, when next to the stage still in the air, egg roll, you should have virtually no bounce lag if you do this right, but it's hard to get down.

Give my approach a shot, no one expects Teh Boot at that time, I'm not joking. Heh, 2nd...

 

[auroreon]

Options from the edge are completely dependant on the character your facing, certain characters require different methods from returning to the edge.
ECE is very useful against most characters and is probably every Yoshis favorite edge move but the opponant will get wise to it quickly so don't depend on it too much. Also dangerous if you have tap jump on (but that doesn't stop me!).
The safest and most reliable ledge recovery is simply a rising AD and its what you should be using against characters who can edge guard extremely well and have become wise to your other methods of coming back. You are mostly protected but remember the AD does end and you want to make sure your safe when that happens, so obviously this isn't going to be the best option in all situations.
Everyone seems to like the Bair from the ledge and I agree its a nice way to recover but its also one of the less safe ways of getting back on as opponents can easily shield it and punish.
The thing about recovering from the edge is that you want to be as unpredictable as possible so that the other players never really knows what you are planning. So you shouldn't always instantly try to get back on... faking any of the mentioned methods of returning by going for them and retreating back to the edge works well in keeping you unpredictable, for instance a good idea is to pretend to go for a Bair or Dair returning to the stage but thats to Yoshi having the fastest horizontal air speed in the game you can go towards and then away from the stage and back onto the edge. Don't get too cocky with this little mindgame though because if they predict it they can punish you for it.
Another nice mindgame on the ledge is to let go and instantly Yoshi Bomb (DON'T HOLD DOWN OR YOU WILL DIE) the affect is that Yoshi lets go of the edge and then begins the bomb annimation but then regrabs the edge.
Pretty much all Yoshis aerials can work well from the ledge depending on spacing, character and the other players prediction. Rising Nair and Fair can both work very nicely from the edge and at high percentages Nair can do a nice deal of KB to get them out of your face and sweetspotting the Fair means they can hit the stage and bounce up giving you the oppertunity to instantly Uair which makes for a very nice KO. Generally these are situations ways of coming back however as they are both easily avoided/Shielded.
My personal favorite (but not most reliable) method of returning is the rising Dair, as long as you don't do it often they generally don't expect it and it does very nice damage as they take most of the hits and most of the time it can be followed up instantly with an unavoidable Nair which can kill, or if you land right you can even Dsmash straight out of it. It also has a tendency to break shields very quickly and players will often drop their shields to avoid this, so you don't have to worry about being shielded as much this way. Works very well and big characters but be very wary of bowser/ charizards firebreath as it will gimp you.
Another (often overlooked) very situational but often nice fresh way to get back is actually the egg lay, the great thing about this is that it eats through shields as well so if you opponent is likely to shield then this can be a nice supprise... obviously this tactic is dangerous not only because they can punish you very easily for it but it cancels your double jump and can cause SDs if you don't know what your doing with the egglay (which many Yoshis don't seem to...).
All these options are dependant on situation, opponent character, opponent prediction and spacing, you just have to experiment and find what works best in individual situations.
The biggest piece of advice is to mix it up and stay unpredictable, never let the opponent guess what your going to do to get back from the ledge.

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

I usually mix it up, doing any 1 thing every time will result in getting ****ed with only eggs to get you back :\

- Edge-Eggs - Safe, easy way to whittle an opponents shield, force them to back away or come off the stage to get you.

- DJ aerial - Either forward or back is not a bad option. Watch out when you do DJ Dairs that you dont get hit out of it before your Dair hitboxes are in range to hit them (losing armor on 2nd jump as you input the aerial).

- Normal DJ back - If you are under 75% this is generally a safe option, as your super armor will soak up and attack and generally you will sail right ovcer them and back to the stage. Is nice because yoshi doesn't necesarily need to to AD to make it through an edgeguard to some back. You could also wait for the attack then Nair them after you have been hit.

- Roll off the edge - I personally hate yoshi's edge roll if you are over 100%, it takes long enough that anm opponent could whiff his attack, then still turn around and grab / punish you. IMO his worst option over 100%.

- Get up attack - Not bad, doesn't have a lot of range though, if shielded you will get grabbed / punished.


Just dont get predictable. Mix it up between stage-poking aerials (Uairs through BF, Smashville, PS1...), ECE, and rising aerials and you should be fine.