Retrospectives and Introspectives: A Look Back at the Nintendo Wii

[GiantBreadbug]

About a week from now, just before midnight, I'll walk into my local game store and pick up my Wii U preorder along with New Super Mario Bros. U and ZombiU. I've been looking forward to the launch of Nintendo's latest game box, and the intriguing new controller that comes with it, for quite some time.

Similarly, in 2006, I was closely following the Wii. It was the first games console that I had been aware of since its announcement and had payed close attention to from the beginning. I'm not necessarily a youngster, but I didn't grow up in a socioeconomic situation that allowed my family to spend money on games. In fact, until I got my Gamecube for my 10th birthday, the only console I had owned was my NES along with copies of Mario Bros., both Super and non. The Gamecube was my gateway the world of gaming (not the most fortuitous time to join the community, I know). I was just a kid, so I tugged at the pant legs of my parents every time I saw a game I wanted and gave them every reason to buy it for me. I still missed out on quite a few titles just because I wasn't old enough to finance my newfound love interest.

I think that's why the Wii holds such a special place in my memories: because it was the first console I had a vested interest in from the start. Not only was the prospect of its revolutionary control scheme exciting to my younger self, but so too were the thoughts of new entries in some series that I had just come to know well enough to care about. I didn't quite understand (or care about, for that matter) the impact that the Wii's power and hardware would have on its reception; I was just thrilled to be a part of an incoming generation of gaming from the start i for the first time.

I suppose I could analyze the successes and failures of Nintendo's Wii. I could mention the typical talking points of the Wii, such as third party support, hardware power, controls, and the like. Quite frankly, though, I'm not looking to dredge up arguments about the Wii's worth as a gaming platform. No, I think I'd much rather wax poetic about how owning a Wii has shaped the way I view the gaming industry. And there's no better way to present my experience with a videogames console than by looking back on its games.

To give a proper farewell to my Wii, and to give help make more cohesive the past six years I've spent with it, I'll play every Wii game in my library in the order that I bought or came across them. I may not finish my games completely, mind you, but I will play each game I have for at least two hours between now and next Saturday night. And when I've spent my final time with each game, I'll post my closing thoughts.

It's not like I'm performing a ritualistic burning of my Wii games when I get my Wii U. I'm aware of the future time I'll be spending with these games via the nifty, if not altogether cumbersome, backward compatibility of the Wii U with Wii games. However, I anticipate that I'll be much too involved with the (fingers crossed) regular new releases on the Wii U to be spending an awful lot of time with my old Wii games, in much the same way that even my favorite Gamecube games saw much less playtime on my Wii than my Wii games.

And let's get something straight: my impressions are for you soft-hearted game lovers out there. These closing thoughts are going to be overwhelmingly positive, for a good many reasons.

I'm what most could consider to be an idealist of entertainment. When I enter into a gaming experience, I'm looking to have a good time, and I'll be damned if anything is going to take that away. I'm not easily jarred from my immersion, and it's something I consider an asset to the way I view games in general. I tend to like most things. I'm an owner and player of many games across three platforms (Wii, plus my PC and Xbox 360), and you'd be hard-pressed to find a game about which I have more negative things than positive to say. Call me a pie-in-the-sky gamer, but it is what it is. You're not going to see lots of critical analysis in these reflections.

But I hope anybody who happens to read these pseudo memoirs enjoys the memories they bring up for you personally as much as I have had making them.

Coming up tomorrow: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess & Rayman Raving Rabbids

 

[Falconv1.0]

I bought less than 10 games for that thing, two of them were ports from the gamecube.

.___.

 

[finalark]

Honestly, my Wii is a Game Cube I hook up when I don't feel like dragging out my actual Game Cube.

I think my best Wii related memory is the first time I played No More Heroes and discovered I had to jack off my controller to charge up my lightsaber.

 

[Teran]

The Wii had a couple really strong games, but yeah I mean not gonna lie it served me more as a Gamecube and a classic title emulator.

I would be more critical of the Wii but this entire generation has been massively underwhelming.

 

[Luco]

The Wii had a couple really strong games, but yeah I mean not gonna lie it served me more as a Gamecube and a classic title emulator.

I would be more critical of the Wii but this entire generation has been massively underwhelming.

It's rather unfortunate that too many developers nowadays want to focus on the technology of the game rather than the gameplay and story itself. =(

That's how I see it anyway, after going to an expo I originally expected to be going all around the place, and I did, for a small while... then I found that the Nintendo section was legitimaterly more interesting than anything else. Except maybe for Assassins Creed 3, though that line was rather huge (my brother waited in line though and gave it a try, also gave mer the poster, yay) and Sly Cooper (I've always loved the mechanics of this game, even though i've only ever been limited to demos ), there was really nothing there that interested me as much as playing SMB U. on the big screen. Too bad I missed playing the demo with Charles Martinet. I watched four lucky people have a go while he used the gamepad, giving quick mario phrases as they went. That was funny to watch.

I probably got my money's worth out of the expo. What i've said here is a bit of an exaggeration as I did enjoy everything for the most part (indeed, had I known there was a lounge, aftermy first walkthrough I would've gone to the car, gotten brawl out and gone to the wii in the lounge, challenging anyone who wanted to play me at brawl lol.)... however not much truly wowed me and I found myself coming to the conclusion that I made at the beginning of this post.

Your move, designers...

 

[Jam Stunna]

The highlight of this generation has been HD/online enabled re-releases of games from last generation.

 

[Luco]

The highlight of this generation has been HD/online enabled re-releases of games from last generation.

... Or before that. Even though they didn't do all that much, the re-release of Chrono Trigger was awesome. Now everyone knows how good it is!

 

[Teran]

The highlight of this generation has been HD/online enabled re-releases of games from last generation.

Hahahahahaha it's tragic because it's true.

 

[deepseadiva]

Wow, the Wii U comes out next week? Woooow, I haven't been following along at all - which is funny considering how invested I was in the Wii release.

Hehe Wii release

I love/loved the Wii! I think I had a similar relationship with it as the OP. I remember where I was the midnight it was released, and the frantic scramble to find one afterward. Legend of Zelda, Brawl, Warioware, Wiisports!

No, I totally disagree with dissenters. This thing was revolutionary. My entire family played Wiisports for MONTHS. Warioware was the party game to beat. I've been playing competitive Brawl for YEARS...

Life-changing console. Maybe there's disparity in experiences with it, but saying ports are it's only highlight steals much too much from it. Very narrow statement I think.

 

[Luco]

Wow, the Wii U comes out next week? Woooow, I haven't been following along at all - which is funny considering how invested I was in the Wii release.

Hehe Wii release

I love/loved the Wii! I think I had a similar relationship with it as the OP. I remember where I was the midnight it was released, and the frantic scramble to find one afterward. Legend of Zelda, Brawl, Warioware, Wiisports!

No, I totally disagree with dissenters. This thing was revolutionary. My entire family played Wiisports for MONTHS. Warioware was the party game to beat. I've been playing competitive Brawl for YEARS...

Life-changing console. Maybe there's disparity in experiences with it, but saying ports are it's only highlight steals much too much from it. Very narrow statement I think.

Well I agree with Brawl and some others. I also played wii sports and wii play for ages. It's just, i'm talking about now, rather than the wii release. I love Brawl, I play it competitively, and SPM and Pikmin 2 and LoZ: TP were all really good... it was just sad that other consoles didn't put as much in to it, instead focusing on FPSes. I mean, obviously there's assassin's creed and sly cooper is a smaller franchise that's still awesome but for the most part it was shooters. At least, here in australia it was. I'm not kidding when I say the only gaming advertisements i've seen on the back of buses have been about CoD. There was one commercial on the TV recently that did AC but that has been about it.

Not that I have anything against FPSes as a genre, I just rarely get in to them personally.

My point is, that's all we're seeing for the new releases this gen. Again, we have AC, SC and Skylanders, there's nintendo and the rest of the stuff I saw at the expo was either shooters, horror or the showcasing of new technologies. I probably got more excited at Rayman for Wii-u than I did for xbox.

I don't mean to be pessimistic, I just want a quality adventure or story-focused game.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Thoughts on the games I have/played for the wii

Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are ****ing amazing

NSMBWii is mediocre.

Donkey Kong Returns is great.

Metroid Prime Trilogy is not my kind of game(s) I guess. Lovely controls and some cool atmosphere and music, but some of the most boring games ever to me. I'm gonna just sit on this until it becomes ultra rare and sell it.

Brawl was pretty fun imo. it's the only smash i still play because of the character selection.

No More Heroes 1 and 2 are probably the most memorable experiences I had on the system. Not sure how I feel about them as actual games though. Never beat the second one because of that annoying as hell final boss.

MadWorld was terrible. Interesting/funny for about ten minutes.

Silent Hill Shattered Memories is an interesting twist on the franchise, but it's ultimately pretty tepid once you play through once or twice. It's also not scary at all. I admire the game for trying something new with one of my favorite franchises but it's not exactly a big hit.

Cursed Mountain was lame. I spent full price on that crap.

Tenchu Shadow Assassins is probably THE worst game I have played and own for the system. Nearly unplayable trash.

Resident Evil 4's best version is the wii one. So awesome. I play through this one all the time.


WarioWare is one of my favorite series' and the wii one is my fav for sure.

I consider Twilight Princess to be a Gamecube game. It's also bad.

Skyward Sword was...okay. I liked it more than Twilight Princess, and about the same as Wind Waker. I actually really loved the sword controls

Goldeneye was alright. I got into the multiplayer for a little while. It's pretty generic though, gameplay-wise.

 

[Firus]

No, I totally disagree with dissenters. This thing was revolutionary. My entire family played Wiisports for MONTHS. Warioware was the party game to beat. I've been playing competitive Brawl for YEARS...

And my family's been playing Animal Crossing (the original) for years, and I've been playing Melee regularly since 2003 or so...I mean, personally you can argue one way or another; maybe the console was revolutionary for you, but for me the entire thing was hype again and again for basically nothing, or at least an extreme letdown.

Granted, I'm aware that at least part of the letdown was inevitably that I got hyped, but I'd still rather play any of my GameCube games than any of my Wii games. The DS was infinitely better than the Wii, in my opinion, as it made much better use of its gimmick for really creative games than the Wii did, but maybe I just didn't explore the right titles for Wii.

Anyway, also do note that Jam said the highlight of "this generation" was the ports and HD re-releases, not the highlight of the Wii. I'd probably disagree with that myself, still -- for the most part, yes, but I'd say the highlight was the handful of standout, unique titles that weren't part of a franchise -- but I don't think the Wii is a very strong argument against that.

I'll go through my personal list:

I loved Twilight Princess, but that's essentially last gen. Prime 3 was extremely cliché and lacking compared to the first two, and I think the Wii controls are worse than the GC controls, so the rare, $50 version of the Trilogy compared to the ~$15 for the first two on GameCube is silly. Other M was an absolute abomination and remains a black mark on the Metroid series that I dearly hope they de-canonize. NSMBWii was fun; not amazing, but it's a good game to play with friends. Galaxy 1 is an excellent game, even if Sunshine remains my favorite Mario. Galaxy 2 was fun, but fairly forgettable (and incredibly easy, aside from the last two stars of the entire game). WarioWare is definitely fun, but as a party game it lacks much depth. And then there's Brawl, and it's certainly fun, but if I'm going to play Smash, no matter the situation, I have more fun with Melee.

I've got more games, but I don't really have anything notable to say about them.

I think people could cut the Wii more slack as a whole, because I know there are people who really enjoyed the system, and I know that it was a lot of people's first console (probably not as much on SmashBoards, but there are a lot of people out there who got it as their first console). Personally, though, it was a forgettable experience.

 

[ndayday]

I bought less than 10 games for that thing, two of them were ports from the gamecube.

.___.

This is pretty true...I own 10 Wii games, and among my favorites are TP and the Metroid Trilogy. The last Wii game I personally bought was the Trilogy, so you can kind of see that I wasn't the most avid follower of Wii games, but I think buying it was really worth it.

I don't like looking back and remarking on how few games the system had though, since for every one of those games I sunk at least 100 hours, with Brawl being the one with the most time spent (go figure, last I checked the power time was well over 1000 hours). They were all a great experiences, and that's what people have to look at. If you had a good time by yourself or with others, then I'd say the investment was worth it.

But mannn oh man that Wii U release. Best believe my body is ready to play some cutesy mini-games.

 

[finalark]

MadWorld was terrible. Interesting/funny for about ten minutes.

Madworld is pretty awesome until you realize that all you're doing in the first ten minutes is all you'll be doing for the rest of the game.

 

[deepseadiva]

And my family's been playing Animal Crossing (the original) for years, and I've been playing Melee regularly since 2003 or so...I mean, personally you can argue one way or another; maybe the console was revolutionary for you, but for me the entire thing was hype again and again for basically nothing, or at least an extreme letdown.

I mean, does your experience with the Wii have to be comparative? Of course there's the Xbox and Playstation to look at when shopping around, but does its existence always have to be looked at in that light? Does its worth depend on the size of the library you own, or how often you boot it up?

I'm trying to look at it for what it is: a low price, motion-controlled Nintendo system that came out in 2006. Wow, I didn't realize how ancient it is.

But again, does the quantity of games really compare to its quality of gameplay? Where else could you get the Mario Galaxy experience? The Brawl roster? The Metroid controls? Warioware? The Wiisports social experience? Making Miis? An ultra-intuitive channel interface? The Wiiremote itself? These are forgettable and don't come to mind as some of the best parts of gaming in the 2000s?

Of course the system didn't deliver everything, but to put it aside as uninteresting? When did all my fellow Nintendo fanboys grow up?

 

[Luigitoilet]

Madworld is pretty awesome until you realize that all you're doing in the first ten minutes is all you'll be doing for the rest of the game.

Exactly sums it up! Even the announcer voiceover dialogue begins to loop and repeat itself soon after playing.

 

[Luco]

Madworld is pretty awesome until you realize that all you're doing in the first ten minutes is all you'll be doing for the rest of the game.

Sounds like Nintendo-land. J/ks, actually Nintendo-land I found really fun, or at least luigi's ghost mansion. :D

And on thought, I kind of have to agree with Meno. I think oldies become jaded to many concepts that games throw by now, which is why many go to competitive gaming, because that's the next step where things are still extremely fun and exciting. I know my brother is like that; he finds it hard now to finish a newer game unless it's REALLY fun. Like Xcom. We're both enjoying that right now.

 

[Teran]

Why did so few people buy Monster Hunter 3?

 

[Jam Stunna]

Of course the system didn't deliver everything, but to put it aside as uninteresting? When did all my fellow Nintendo fanboys grow up?

This is EXACTLY the problem with Nintendo. It's not a matter of "Nintendo is teh kiddie" or a need for more "mature" (read: absurdly violent and sexualized) games, but the fact is that those of us who grew up with the NES/SNES (and even the N64) are adults now, and our gaming tastes have changed. Yet Nintendo still seems to assume that the people buying their consoles are ten year olds begging their parents for it as a Christmas gift, hence Friend Codes, non-voiced cutscenes, hand-holding game design and a general lack of experimentation. And by experimentation, I don't mean adding motion controls to Mario and Zelda, I mean geuinely new IP. What, the last one was Pikmin?

I love the Nintendo Magic as much as the next person, but I'd like to see them try something like an Arkham City or Catherine or even Call of Duty. It doesn't have to be super violent and titilating, just something that's not a new spin on the same games we've been playing for 25 years.

 

[Lythium]

Cursed Mountain was lame. I spent full price on that crap.

What? You didn't like the MAGIC, LASER-SHOOTING PICKAXE?

Sarcasm aside, I barely use my Wii anymore. I don't regret owning one, but the Wii, while unconventional, is innovative at best, and stale at worst. As it is now, I am not excited for Wii U's release, nor do I have any reason to pick one up.

Spoiler

Until Bayonetta 2 comes out, I guess. >:I

As far as Nintendo goes, I'll probably be sticking with handhelds for now, it's where they really seem to shine.

 

[Teran]

This is EXACTLY the problem with Nintendo. It's not a matter of "Nintendo is teh kiddie" or a need for more "mature" (read: absurdly violent and sexualized) games, but the fact is that those of us who grew up with the NES/SNES (and even the N64) are adults now, and our gaming tastes have changed. Yet Nintendo still seems to assume that the people buying their consoles are ten year olds begging their parents for it as a Christmas gift, hence Friend Codes, non-voiced cutscenes, hand-holding game design and a general lack of experimentation. And by experimentation, I don't mean adding motion controls to Mario and Zelda, I mean geuinely new IP. What, the last one was Pikmin?

I love the Nintendo Magic as much as the next person, but I'd like to see them try something like an Arkham City or Catherine or even Call of Duty. It doesn't have to be super violent and titilating, just something that's not a new spin on the same games we've been playing for 25 years.

Nintendo have always been very conservative about experimentation. For example, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker were their two more ambitious Zeldas, but not immediately lapped up by the press and gaming public and thus their early sales (the ones that count) weren't what they probably wanted them to be.

Twilight Princess, on the other hand, was massively successful, yet now almost nobody looks back and says "wow, Twilight Princess, now that was an experience". Those who do were kids when they played it, and usually change their mind somewhat when playing other Zeldas.

The point is Nintendo realised one thing, their fans are stupid. It may be that some are genuinely just begging Nintendo to push to do something new, but the majority do not want such things. If Link is young "what the **** Link should be an adult!" (hence why the last 2 Zeldas have had mature Links, WE NEED ____ CHARACTERS (hence why even Skyward Sword basically has the earliest incarnations of basically all the Zelda cast so to speak, I mean outside of Zelda/Link). Look at Metroid, now while Other M's story was dumb for certain reasons (no not misogyny), it was in essence, very much an old school Metroid. However because Samus was given a character (whether you dislike it or not), fans lashed out because they had already superimposed a view of Samus onto a nonexistent character, and so Other M was not well received.

There is only one franchise Nintendo can safely experiment with, and that is Mario. The reason why Mario is such a fantastic experimentation platform is because it is a pure gameplay experience. Nobody has ever given a **** about the plot, the whole point is that it's cliché and stupid to the point of unimportance. That means they can go all out and just design a great game.

Nintendo have wanted to experiment, well, not Nintendo, more the creative personalities behind the games, but the producers, like the producers up in EA, know what is good for business.

Sadly as you said thought, the Nintendo fanboy crowd that have in fact been detrimental are dying out, so even with their pandering tactics of the past couple years, I just don't see it being sustainable. Funnily enough though, what makes Wii U's launch so underwhelming is that unlike every Nintendo console in the past (even the Wii), there are no looming killer first party games, like none at all. Even Wii had the tweaked TP and Prime 3/Brawl on the horizon. With Wii U we've had a hypeless campaign filled with Ubisoft going "oh hey so you can play these games on your 360 and PS3, but you can also play it on this $300 new piece of hardware, YOU CAN PLAY ASSASSIN'S CREED ON THIS CONSOLE".

Great.

In any case, there is literally no direction to my post other than Nintendo experimented once upon a time and made truly remarkable games, but it did not pay off. The games do have a legacy now like a decade on, but that's too little too late quite frankly. Nintendo used to always be ahead of the curve in many creative respects, while being too dogged and stubborn to shift with necessary trends such as storage medium and such.

It's funny how Miyamoto and Aonuma think of Majora's Mask as pretty much one of their crowning achievements, and try to draw on it in every game, yet at the same time they have to hold off on all the actual aspects of what made it great because they remember that nobody wants to actually pay too much attention to what is going on.

Majora's Mask is the only 3D Zelda that doesn't spoon feed you the entire narrative and somehow reveal the secret to absolutely everything.

So the real purpose of this post is Twilight Princess sucks, the timeline is stupid and pointless, and thanks to all you douchebag theorists it had to become an important anchor of each game's design. This leads to the fact that Majora's Mask is objectively better in every way. Yes, even the three day system is a more ingenious mechanic than everything that was thought up in subsequent Zeldas. OH NO I HAVE TO CUT SOME CRASS TO GET SOME BOMBS AGAIN. OMG I HAVE TO GO BANK MY MONEY, I DON'T HAVE TIME. I DON'T LIKE TO INTERACT WITH THE WORLD, **** SIDEQUESTS. OMG. OMG. OMG. WHERE IS GANON?

**** you.

**** each and every single one of you.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Majora's Mask also benefited, ironically, from a compressed development cycle. Instead of the 5+ years every Zelda usually gets, they turned out a new console Zelda in two by reusing most of OoT, so it allowed them to experiment in different ways (and kind of forced them to, so as to differentiate between the game and OoT).

But you're right, Nintendo fans are our own worst enemy, because even as we scream for something new, we totally ignore the few attempts Nintendo makes (Disaster: Day of Crisis, anyone?) and lambast the rest.

 

[ZelDan]

I love how The Legend of Zelda is my favorite game series yet Zelda's fanbase is probably one of my least favorite fanbases.

 

[Teran]

Majora's Mask also benefited, ironically, from a compressed development cycle. Instead of the 5+ years every Zelda usually gets, they turned out a new console Zelda in two by reusing most of OoT, so it allowed them to experiment in different ways (and kind of forced them to, so as to differentiate between the game and OoT).

Haha yeah this is true.

I think it's true of everyone that our greatest ideas often come under the stress of of a pressurised situation.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I love how The Legend of Zelda is my favorite game series yet Zelda's fanbase is probably one of my least favorite fanbases.

Well put .

 

[Teran]

I generally just dislike fanbases because they feel that they can dictate the artistic processes behind the games because they are fans.

 

[Firus]

I mean, does your experience with the Wii have to be comparative? Of course there's the Xbox and Playstation to look at when shopping around, but does its existence always have to be looked at in that light? Does its worth depend on the size of the library you own, or how often you boot it up?

As far as any discussion with me is concerned, yeah. If you want to argue about the impact of motion sensor or drawing in more customers (which, in my opinion, was only a hindrance for gaming, but it certainly was an impact of the Wii), then that's one thing. I'm just saying that "My family played this and I played that and we did it a lot and really enjoyed it" is not a solid argument for praising anything. That's equivalent to me arguing that my top-played song in iTunes is revolutionary and amazing because I've listened to it so much. Yeah I love it, and I could make a solid argument it is a really solid song, but the fact that I've listened to it so much doesn't argue for anything. In that paragraph I quoted, you said that it was revolutionary and then backed that up with your personal experience with the system.

If you're talking about person experiences, then yeah, it's always going to be comparative and subjective.

I'm trying to look at it for what it is: a low price, motion-controlled Nintendo system that came out in 2006. Wow, I didn't realize how ancient it is.

Okay, now you're getting into the system itself. That's an acceptable argument. I don't care much for motion control myself (probably because I think that, for all the good it's done, it's done even more harm), but it certainly was revolutionary in that aspect.

But again, does the quantity of games really compare to its quality of gameplay? Where else could you get the Mario Galaxy experience? The Brawl roster? The Metroid controls? Warioware? The Wiisports social experience? Making Miis? An ultra-intuitive channel interface? The Wiiremote itself? These are forgettable and don't come to mind as some of the best parts of gaming in the 2000s?

But I'm not talking about quantity, I'm talking about quality, and those experiences you listed off pale in comparison to my experiences with other consoles. Mario Galaxy was awesome, but Sunshine still stands out to me as my favorite Mario title. Brawl's roster is irrelevant to me because I prefer Melee's gameplay. I prefer Metroid Prime 1 and 2's amazing atmosphere compared to some half-baked, cliché plot that happens to have motion-sensor controls tacked onto it. WarioWare's fun, but not outstandingly so. Don't care for Miis, the channel interface was decent, the Wiimote has motion controls but I'd still say the GameCube or 360 controllers are the best-designed controllers out there.

As for Wii Sports, I didn't have any "social experience" with it. Honestly, I don't play video games for the multiplayer or the social experience; I tend to do single-player gaming the most. And maybe that's why the Wii didn't do much for me. But yes, the Wii experience is almost wholly forgettable for me. The one part of it that's ingrained in my mind is the pre-release hype that I had for it, because apparently when I was in my mid-teens I liked getting obsessively attached to video games. I remember being absolutely psyched for every little piece of the console and every single game, but it didn't last. The luster faded eventually, and re-evaluating things now, the Wii just doesn't have much for me. I'm really glad that it was a great console for you and I don't begrudge you that, but the Wii fails to be very compelling to me, and I don't think it will stand the test of time as very much but the first console with true motion sensor.

Of course the system didn't deliver everything, but to put it aside as uninteresting? When did all my fellow Nintendo fanboys grow up?

About four years ago. Sorry.

Look at Metroid, now while Other M's story was dumb for certain reasons (no not misogyny), it was in essence, very much an old school Metroid. However because Samus was given a character (whether you dislike it or not), fans lashed out because they had already superimposed a view of Samus onto a nonexistent character, and so Other M was not well received.

I must've missed the part of old-school Metroid where you had to switch to choppy first-person controls from the third-person view, or the part where pickups weren't there and you healed by "concentrating," or the part where a dodging ability was not only a major game mechanic, but a necessary piece of the game. (No, I'm not talking about moving around, I'm talking about tapping the d-pad to do an auto-dodge. Certain battles, e.g. Ridley and that stupid Rhedogian, are absolute hell because of how ridiculously you have to use that mechanic.)

Other M was an interesting game (outside of the plot, which, yes, was terrible for a great many reasons), but old-school Metroid isn't something you can credit it with.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Wait what the ****, old school? Really?

Teran wat u doin?

 

[Teran]

I must've missed the part of old-school Metroid where you had to switch to choppy first-person controls from the third-person view, or the part where pickups weren't there and you healed by "concentrating," or the part where a dodging ability was not only a major game mechanic, but a necessary piece of the game. (No, I'm not talking about moving around, I'm talking about tapping the d-pad to do an auto-dodge. Certain battles, e.g. Ridley and that stupid Rhedogian, are absolute hell because of how ridiculously you have to use that mechanic.)

Other M was an interesting game (outside of the plot, which, yes, was terrible for a great many reasons), but old-school Metroid isn't something you can credit it with.

The first person reacted fine if your batteries were charged, funny thing I noticed. Still I'm talking more about the third person and heavy emphasis on combat, in comparison to Prime where the combat was very much just filler save for bosses.

Also I fail to see the relevance of a mechanic not reacting well to what I stated, more than it just being a criticism of the design itself.

Also was the dodge really that hard to get a grasp of?

I'm not saying it was old school old school, but imo it was moreso than the Prime series. Just because Prime was flat out one of the best games of its generation and definitely makes the all time list to, doesn't make it that outside some of the traditional fomulae like "you lose all you stuff", "you battle space pirates", "you are Samus and you explore space", that it was really such a throwback. Actually I think Prime was very lucky in one regard, there was a whole generation devoid of Metroid, so it didn't develop the Zelda-esque fanbase, and thus when Prime came out, it was largely based on its own merits of having incredible atmosphere and immersion, as well as a richly detailed backstory that you could uncover if you took to time to scan and just pick the world apart.

Prime kept all of what was good about Metroid, but also totally overhauled the entire series. I can imagine that had there been a Zelda-esque fanbase for it, it would have suffered from it.

Again I'm not saying Other M was great, I'm just saying the major criticisms for it were all just flat out dumbly constructed. Like seriously there were so many things to pick at Other M for but somehow they didn't really seem to bother people, or they were bothered for the wrong reason.

I have to say the only thing that I really enjoyed in the game was the cute fluffy Ridley arc. Everyone knew that little creature was going to cause some sort of trouble, it was so obvious, but to have it be an infantile Ridley was definitely an awesome twist.

Speaking of Metroid though, doesn't it bother people that Nintendo haven't shown of Metroid in HD in some form or another? Like seriously, if there is any Nintendo franchise that would get wows from high graphical fidelity it would be Metroid.

 

[deepseadiva]

Majora's Mask also benefited, ironically, from a compressed development cycle.

Maybe not ironically. Limitation breeds creativity after all.

I'm just saying that "My family played this and I played that and we did it a lot and really enjoyed it" is not a solid argument for praising anything.

How is that not valid? That's how I judge all my entertainment. xD

I'm just saying the system was 1) undisputedly fun, and thus memorable - and 2) fun stemming from it's indisputable novelty. It was, and in my opinion still is, revolutionary in that there's very little to compare it to.

Where else do you get the room full of people playing Wii Sports? The accessibility of pulling your grandma to play games with you?

The Wii is the only thing I've ever seen do this.

But I'm not talking about quantity, I'm talking about quality, and those experiences you listed off pale in comparison to my experiences with other consoles. Mario Galaxy was awesome, but Sunshine still stands out to me as my favorite Mario title. Brawl's roster is irrelevant to me because I prefer Melee's gameplay. I prefer Metroid Prime 1 and 2's amazing atmosphere compared to some half-baked, cliché plot that happens to have motion-sensor controls tacked onto it. WarioWare's fun, but not outstandingly so. Don't care for Miis, the channel interface was decent, the Wiimote has motion controls but I'd still say the GameCube or 360 controllers are the best-designed controllers out there.

"I like Sunshine better" shouldn't take away from Galaxy. This is a problem I've always had with certain media critics. As if the two pieces are fighting in a contest, one piece is seen as the winner and the other the loser. Everyone will have their preferences, but you can't let those feelings leak into an objective analysis of them. BOTH are excellent games - Galaxy benefiting from the lessons it learned from all the previous Marios. Galaxy is "better" (despite Sunshine being both our favorites).

As for Wii Sports, I didn't have any "social experience" with it. Honestly, I don't play video games for the multiplayer or the social experience; I tend to do single-player gaming the most. And maybe that's why the Wii didn't do much for me.

I think that's exactly why. It's called the WII gorrammit!

I don't think it will stand the test of time as very much but the first console with true motion sensor.

Even if your own personal experience leaves something to be desired, it must be appreciated for it's huge cultural influence. Maybe the "hardcore" will write it off as the waggle system, but for those who simply enjoy playing games, its a historic piece of gaming technology. Look at the Kinect, look at the Move, look at the new game markets Zynga and everyone else is so keenly aware of now because of this thing - undeniably influential.

 

[Firus]

The first person reacted fine if your batteries were charged, funny thing I noticed.

Okay, well, that aside, I was also talking about being unable to move around at all while in first person. Missiles are a decent piece of the game, and being unable to use those without limiting your vision and being unable to move is a pain.

(Choppy was admittedly not the best choice of words there, I suppose.)

Still I'm talking more about the third person and heavy emphasis on combat, in comparison to Prime where the combat was very much just filler save for bosses.

I'm confused now, because the heavy emphasis on combat is exactly what I'd argue was Other M's biggest difference between the other Metroid titles, so you might have to help me out and let me know why you'd say there's a heavier emphasis on combat in the old-school titles. Save for the strongest enemies in the sidescrollers, most enemies died with one or two shots, and the big focus was on exploration. If you really wanted to, you could avoid most of the combat in them, except for the rooms that lock until all enemies are defeated. In fact, I feel like the Prime trilogy had more of a focus on combat than the sidescrollers did. It still wasn't much, but enemies tended to feel more durable.

Which is the thing with Other M. So many of the enemies in the game are extremely durable. The mini-boss-type enemies are extremely common, and you frequently have to stop and shoot the bloody things twenty times with a charged shot before they die and let you move on. The fact that there's a mechanic for dodging only emphasizes the focus on combat.

Also I fail to see the relevance of a mechanic not reacting well to what I stated, more than it just being a criticism of the design itself.

Fair enough.

Also was the dodge really that hard to get a grasp of?

I honestly found it difficult to get a grasp of, because I don't remember them ever explicitly mentioning it in the game, although that could've been my memory failing me or me being too quick to skip dialogue.

But that's not really the point. My point about the dodging is that it emphasizes combat too much. The only time you ever really have to work hard to dodge in a Metroid game is if you're doing a low percent run. If you've got the energy tanks for it, the Ridley battle in Super Metroid (or really any of the 2D games, honestly) is just you sitting there slapping missiles or charged shots at it until it dies, taking as much damage as necessary in the process. In Other M, if you don't dodge, you get slammed against the wall and all sorts of other things while fighting Ridley, and you're going to die. I'm not saying all boss fights should involve throwing missiles/charge beams until you win (in fact, that would suck), but the Other M Ridley battle was entirely too focused on precision with dodging. (I'd probably go into more detail, but it's been two years since I last played through the game and I don't remember much else besides the Ridley battle being annoying as hell.)

Again I'm not saying Other M was great, I'm just saying the major criticisms for it were all just flat out dumbly constructed. Like seriously there were so many things to pick at Other M for but somehow they didn't really seem to bother people, or they were bothered for the wrong reason.

This I will wholeheartedly agree with. When I was playing through it the first time, I honestly was all right with it (aside from encountering those choice battles that involved too much dodging for my tastes), and I recall one of my friends whining about the whole Ridley cutscene thing. And everybody online was whining about it. The more I think about that cutscene and the entire plot of the game, the more it pisses me off, but I don't get why people focus so much on that when there are other issues.

Personally, I think I'm mostly pissed about the plot of the game because it basically showed Adam to be nothing like he was portrayed as in Fusion. As a huge fan of Fusion, the "Any objections, lady?" in the E3 trailer was legitimately the one thing that got me really excited about it, and I think they did an awful job following through on it.

That said, the plot isn't what I'd complain about most. If I enjoyed the gameplay, I'd probably just cast the plot aside and pretend it doesn't exist, but to this day I don't even understand how I 100%'d the game and then went through on Hard Mode. Recently I tried playing it again, and it was a game of "How long will it take me to ragequit Other M?"

I have to say the only thing that I really enjoyed in the game was the cute fluffy Ridley arc. Everyone knew that little creature was going to cause some sort of trouble, it was so obvious, but to have it be an infantile Ridley was definitely an awesome twist.

I will agree with that. That was definitely an awesome arc. I will say that I really enjoyed the Nightmare and Phantoon cameos as well, though.

Speaking of Metroid though, doesn't it bother people that Nintendo haven't shown of Metroid in HD in some form or another? Like seriously, if there is any Nintendo franchise that would get wows from high graphical fidelity it would be Metroid.
[/COLOR]

Yeah, I feel like Nintendo's practically abandoned the Metroid franchise for one reason or another, and I'm not sure why. It's been six years since we've had a Metroid handheld, two years since the last console game, and we've heard absolutely nothing. And Prime 3's 100% ending left off with a cliffhanger that they still haven't followed up with.

I don't know. Considering Metroid's my favorite franchise, I'm disappointed that Nintendo seems to care about it less and less, but then again, maybe I'd rather they stop putting games out than they give us another Other M. But if they did, yeah; HD would be absolutely amazing.

 

[---]

Actually bought Other M earlier this summer at my local game store new for $10. It's currently one of the few games that I've bought but have never turned on and played. lol

Also abandoned Metroid? I'm not sure if I agree with that looking at the series during the past decade and didn't they also say a Metroid game for the Wii U was in development already (can't remember)? That said, Metroid isn't one of the most popular or best selling Nintendo franchises being mostly carried by the West, so I can see Nintendo being hesitant over a new installment unlike some other franchises though not to the extent of say Star Fox or F-Zero. Definitely down for an HD Metroid.


Overall I liked the Wii, it just had the majority of the games I was looking forward to (though a lot I skipped because I'm cheap). I blew all my money on the Virtual Console too. I really only use my PS3 for the 3rd Party games that miss the Wii like MGS4, UMvC3, or Sonic Generations, and I wasn't interested in blowing my money on a 360 (failure rate and pay for online use). If anything though, this Generation of systems was the first time I've felt like a true gamer and I owe a lot of that to the Wii. It got me into watching E3, becoming a retro gamer, looking into several franchises that I would have otherwise avoided, and even brought me here to SWF.

 

[Firus]

How is that not valid? That's how I judge all my entertainment. xD

That's how I judge all of my entertainment, too, but if you're having an actual debate about it and trying to defend something from an objective standpoint or arguing that it's revolutionary, "I enjoyed it" is kind of a weak argument. There are people out there who enjoy One Direction and Justin Bieber, and I respect neither of those more because of it.

I'm just saying the system was 1) undisputedly fun, and thus memorable - and 2) fun stemming from it's indisputable novelty. It was, and in my opinion still is, revolutionary in that there's very little to compare it to.

Novelty I'll give you, and yeah the Wii is fun, but fun is such a subjective thing, and I find less of it in the Wii than most of my other consoles (and there are others who feel the same way), so that's not really a good argument for revolutionary. "Fun" in general isn't really a good support for revolutionary, because that means more than just "good."

Where else do you get the room full of people playing Wii Sports? The accessibility of pulling your grandma to play games with you?

The Wii is the only thing I've ever seen do this.

I don't know, as I said I've had more experiences playing video games with my family when it comes to Animal Crossing than with anything else. I think I got a room full of people playing Wii Sports maybe once or twice, and one of those was with my parents and sisters.

Plus, the Atari 2600 did the same sort of thing back in its day. Maybe not to the same extent, since home gaming was just on the rise and gaming in general wasn't as big, but the Wii isn't the first console to get families playing it.

"I like Sunshine better" shouldn't take away from Galaxy. This is a problem I've always had with certain media critics. As if the two pieces are fighting in a contest, one piece is seen as the winner and the other the loser. Everyone will have their preferences, but you can't let those feelings leak into an objective analysis of them. BOTH are excellent games - Galaxy benefiting from the lessons it learned from all the previous Marios. Galaxy is "better" (despite Sunshine being both our favorites).

Okay whoa slow down there, you gave me all of your "memorable experiences" and I'm telling you how they don't apply to me. It was supposed to be subjective, not objective.

Also if we really want to get down to memories, Galaxy was extremely mediocre to me the first time through. It wasn't until I played through it a second time that I actually grew to like it a lot.

Anyway, what you said in this paragraph is basically exactly the point I'm trying to make with you supporting the Wii by saying that you've had more fun with it. That said, saying Galaxy is "better" objectively because it came out second is legitimately one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Are we actually going to argue that Sonic Unleashed is objectively "better" than the games that came before it simply because it came later? Because I'm pretty sure Sega didn't take any prior knowledge into account when they made that thing.

Unless I'm misinterpreting that series of sentences and you're just saying that Galaxy is "better" with no explanation? In which case I'd still disagree, because there are a lot of things you can argue for Sunshine being objectively "better," even if it was unpopular.

I think that's exactly why. It's called the WII gorrammit!

If a video game system demands that you have multiple people for the full experience, then I don't have much respect for it.

That said, props for the Firefly language there.

Even if your own personal experience leaves something to be desired, it must be appreciated for it's huge cultural influence. Maybe the "hardcore" will write it off as the waggle system, but for those who simply enjoy playing games, its a historic piece of gaming technology. Look at the Kinect, look at the Move, look at the new game markets Zynga and everyone else is so keenly aware of now because of this thing - undeniably influential.

Okay, hang on a minute.

First of all: Didn't I already say that it did, in fact, have an impact? I don't dispute that. The only reason I've used my personal experience at all (outside of the piece in my first post just explaining that I wasn't crazy about it) was because you used your personal experience to argue that it was revolutionary. It was a revolutionary console, no matter how many problems I have with it.

Second, making a distinction between "the hardcore" and "people who simply enjoy playing games" is something to which I take offense. I would probably fall into the "hardcore" category, except I do simply enjoy playing games. What I don't enjoy is too many depthless party games or waggle-fests. And it just happens that a lot of the games on Wii are not as good as their predecessors, in the case of those that did. The completely fresh titles were often intriguing but usually lacking in multiple areas.

And I think anybody who disregards the Wii and doesn't acknowledge that it's historical is kidding themselves. Whether you hate the games or not, as the first console with true motion sensor, and having had as much of an impact as it did getting non-gamers into gaming, it's definitely historic.

Also abandoned Metroid? I'm not sure if I agree with that looking at the series during the past decade and didn't they also say a Metroid game for the Wii U was in development already (can't remember)? That said, Metroid isn't one of the most popular or best selling Nintendo franchises being mostly carried by the West, so I can see Nintendo being hesitant over a new installment unlike some other franchises though not to the extent of say Star Fox or F-Zero. Definitely down for an HD Metroid.

I did say "practically abandoned". In the past decade, yeah, there were a lot of games, and that's exactly why I'm confused. In the span of three years, from '04 to '07, they released four major Metroid titles. Now it's been six years since we had a handheld title, and it's been two years since a console release with no news. (As far as I can tell, there hasn't been any announcement of a Metroid for Wii U yet.)

It makes sense that they don't keep up with it as much, but I still find it disappointing, personally.

 

[Teran]

Well they had Retro working on Metroid and they churned out the Prime games, but I guess after that they tried to give something else to Retro since they seemed so prolific, and perhaps let Metroid take a backseat before the IP felt a bit saturated and milked.

I mean I suppose Other M was their experiment with another studio and it wasn't so well received, ha.

In any case Nintendo never really abandons franchises, hell they resurrected Kid Icarus, so I'm pretty sure they're just working on getting a Metroid out there which will get huge critical acclaim. Nintendo pretty much stayed afloat during 64/GC thanks to its outstanding consistency with IPs. What makes a Nintendo IP a sure seller historically isn't "oh it's another Zelda!" in the same way that CoD or Madden sell on their names, it's the fact that 9.0/10 would be considered a LOW average score if it came out and was reviewed. Of course lolvgjournalism but I'm talking in general with people, I think it's safe to say that basically everything Nintendo used to churn out software wise was pure gold.

They also managed that by not churning stuff out every other year, Prime was a trilogy developed by the same studio so the contiguity definitely aided. Personally, I'd be happy for games that were few and far between, but really blew me away. In fact that's what I used to love about Nintendo. Then again, 3/4 years used to feel like eons, that is literally the amount of time I was a mod and how long I've been on this site.

That is really scary to consider tbqh.

When Miyamoto dies I think Zelda will be run into the ground. I personally think every good thing in the current Zelda games are thanks to Miyamoto and Aonuma, and the ****ty stuff are the more frugal of the lot. I mean I have no idea, but it's hard to think that people who've shown themselves of such thoughtful artistic creation could come up with some of the stuff.

Also Zelda needs to evolve omg.

 

[Falconv1.0]

But Cyrus, IGN said Skyward Sword was the best!

And we all know there was nothing wrong in Skyward Sword. NOTHING.

 

[deepseadiva]

That's how I judge all of my entertainment, too, but if you're having an actual debate about it and trying to defend something from an objective standpoint or arguing that it's revolutionary, "I enjoyed it" is kind of a weak argument. There are people out there who enjoy One Direction and Justin Bieber, and I respect neither of those more because of it.

No, I disagree, I think it's incredibly powerful to say "I personally find quality in this". You can only be so objective with art, which is what makes comparative discussions so banal. The only respectable opinions can be direct experiences - otherwise we're comparing... sales numbers or graphic quality.

But then yes, it becomes a subjective discussion of "I liked it" vs "I did not". And honestly, like the OP noted, I find positive opinions usually ring truer than negative opinions. At least concerning media.

Even with examples like Justin Beiber or One Direction, there is quality in these works. People put effort and time into these things, and it's only inevitable that there is going to be a degree of success. Usually I find dissenters saying "there is better", and surely there is, but this doesn't deprive Beiber from the quality that IS in his work.

Novelty I'll give you, and yeah the Wii is fun, but fun is such a subjective thing, and I find less of it in the Wii than most of my other consoles (and there are others who feel the same way), so that's not really a good argument for revolutionary. "Fun" in general isn't really a good support for revolutionary, because that means more than just "good."

What I mean to say is the Wii is fun because of how different it is.

Anyway, what you said in this paragraph is basically exactly the point I'm trying to make with you supporting the Wii by saying that you've had more fun with it. That said, saying Galaxy is "better" objectively because it came out second is legitimately one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Are we actually going to argue that Sonic Unleashed is objectively "better" than the games that came before it simply because it came later? Because I'm pretty sure Sega didn't take any prior knowledge into account when they made that thing.

With the way time works in a linear fashion, I don't think it's crazy to say that newer things are probably going to be better than older things. Most things improve with time.

Mario I think is one of the best examples of this. Nintendo's takes really good care of the franchise and is constantly refining and rehashing. So yes, it came out second so it's better. Nintendo actively tries to make it that way.

Sega is an example of how to fumble with these type of opportunities.

Unless I'm misinterpreting that series of sentences and you're just saying that Galaxy is "better" with no explanation? In which case I'd still disagree, because there are a lot of things you can argue for Sunshine being objectively "better," even if it was unpopular.

Better graphics, refined gameplay, refined characters story, etc etc.

Both are brilliant. And honestly, my personal preference is Sunshine. But it's the "better" game. If we were to ask Nintendo, they would say the same I think.

If a video game system demands that you have multiple people for the full experience, then I don't have much respect for it.

Honestly, I think you're not the audience (as much as Nintendo tried to tell you you were, LOL).

Second, making a distinction between "the hardcore" and "people who simply enjoy playing games" is something to which I take offense. I would probably fall into the "hardcore" category, except I do simply enjoy playing games. What I don't enjoy is too many depthless party games or waggle-fests. And it just happens that a lot of the games on Wii are not as good as their predecessors, in the case of those that did. The completely fresh titles were often intriguing but usually lacking in multiple areas.

Good, I meant to be offensive.

I really do think there has grown a division. There is the hardcore, that sit and compare a game to other experiences, as they have a long relationship with games from there youth. And then there is the casual, that sit and just play, untainted and blessed with little to compare their experiences to. They just have a good time.

I feel like the hardcore have lost that type of approach.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I've been playing videogames since I was 4. Honestly the older I get the more "casual" a gamer I become.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I've been playing videogames since I was 4. Honestly the older I get the more "casual" a gamer I become.

I was discussing this with a friend yesterday. He was lamenting the fact that he no longer beats every game he buys, or completes the ones he does to 100%. I said "That's because you're growing up."

With the exception of the months immediately following my divorce, I don't think I've beaten a one player game in years.

 

[deepseadiva]

I've been inching along Wind Waker since 2010! I keep coming back months later totally lost.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

^Pri much that. I've been getting around to playing all the games I have and at least trying to beat them before buying more, but I always buy more even though I'll never beat them. I have a problem.

Also there have been a couple good Wii games that came out just as the Wii hit it's old days. Like Xenoblade and The Last Story.