Retrospectives and Introspectives: A Look Back at the Nintendo Wii

[Dre89]

Firus- I still think it's wrong to say X is objectively better though.

People always define better by what they personally value. Intellectuals think classical music is better than house, because they personally value creativity and sophistication. Club-goers prefer house because getting you in the mood to dance is what they personally value.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Those sound more like opinions than a real attempt to objectively state something is better. I mean, I prefer certain forms of music over others but I don't think they're worse, just different.

But that's like, just like, my opinion, man.

 

[Dre89]

A lot of intellectuals may listen to something like alternate rock and not classical, but still respect classical because it's also creative. But some of these people will say house is just bad music that people shouldn't listen to, because it doesn't possess what they value.

It's like people who play CoD may also respect Goldeneye because it's also a FPS but not Mario games.

Generally, the things that people don't like but respect usually share similar traits to what they like.

As I've said before, I just think ascribing objective value to things is a futile exercise.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Dre you know what my problem is with you? You're saying ****ing nothing. You're essentially saying somethings are simply a matter of opinion. No one disagrees with that. What you're kinda getting at is that what people are debating in this thread is also simply a matter of opinion but you're not building an actual case for it, you're being a coward trying to steer the conversation completely off course.

You know why? Because you're sick. You're sick with being Dre syndrome, you contrarian without a cause.

LOOK AT MY FACE.

****IN LOOK AT IT.

 

[Teran]

I don't even know what's going but what I do know that Wii U just came out here and I didn't even notice.

There's definitely something wrong with the world if that's the case.

 

[Luco]

Dre you know what my problem is with you? You're saying ****ing nothing. You're essentially saying somethings are simply a matter of opinion. No one disagrees with that. What you're kinda getting at is that what people are debating in this thread is also simply a matter of opinion but you're not building an actual case for it, you're being a coward trying to steer the conversation completely off course.

Um, but he doesn't need to. IMO it doesn't take a genius to realize that the stuff we're saying here is an opinion on our part. Yes, there are guidelines to tell us what makes a game 'objectively good' or 'objectively bad' but those rules aren't as solid as some might make us believe and the games we like, we like for subjective reasons (duh).

In the end though, any game which you like at all, whether it's generally seen as a good/bad game probably has at least one good quality about it, even if that 'quality' happens to be that everything in the game is... (subjectively) hideous lol.

That's my opinion.

 

[Teran]

You know considering things are "just opinion" people can go to great lengths to justify them and to dismantle someone else's.

 

[Luco]

You know considering things are "just opinion" people can go to great lengths to justify them and to dismantle someone else's.

True but i didn't say there were no guidelines for objectively judging the quality of a game, just that when it comes to extremely good or extremely bad games, it's hard to tell which is better/worse because those guidelines aren't completely accurate enough.

It's also entirely possible to de-rail someone with your subjective opinion if you're mean enough.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Hey Luco how does it feel to have no one mark for you ever?

 

[Luco]

Hey Luco how does it feel to have no one mark for you ever?

Is this an error in translation or are you making no sense? EXPLAIN MOAR! <3

 

[Falconv1.0]

Is this an error in translation or are you making no sense? EXPLAIN MOAR! <3

No.

The **** kind of a person misspells more and then goes "<3". Do you have a massive tumor in your brain that causes you to say dumb things? Do you just enjoy being disliked by literally almost everyone? I mean holy **** even I'm less annoying than you and I mean JUST LOOK AT THAT FACE.

****ING LOOOOK AAAAAT IIIIIIIT.

 

[Teran]

You know this is right around the time I used to tell people to cool it but then I realised nobody gives a **** what I have to say anymore.

It is at this point when I realise it's good to be the king and have decided to kill myself.

See you on the other side.

By other side I mean hell.

 

[Luco]

No.

The **** kind of a person misspells more and then goes "<3". Do you have a massive tumor in your brain that causes you to say dumb things? Do you just enjoy being disliked by literally almost everyone? I mean holy **** even I'm less annoying than you and I mean JUST LOOK AT THAT FACE.

****ING LOOOOK AAAAAT IIIIIIIT.

I can't believe how long it took me to realize the humour in your posts. :O

This guy is awesome!

On a serious note, teran we care what you say!

 

[Falconv1.0]

Oh hey it's another Allen Vision trying to no sell promos because he doesn't actually have jack **** to say for himself. Good, I love those people.

 

[Luigitoilet]

everybody on the internet needs to be banned from using the word "objective"

 

[Claire Diviner]

I like Street Fighter 2010, DOA: Xtreme Beach Volleyball, and even Metroid: Other M; games generally seen as bad. Do I care what others think? Not really. I know they're bad, or so the general public believes, but as long as I get enjoyment out of them, why should I care what others think - be it a game or a system? Same applies to anything else, for that matter. I'm sure there's that one douche king who believe's E.T. on the Atari 2600 was a masterpiece; while I won't agree, who am I to tell them they can't like it, right?

 

[Dre89]

everybody on the internet needs to be banned from using the word "objective"

If I say X is better than Y (like Teran does) but people disagree with it, all of a sudden I'm a condescending prick who thinks his opinion is be-all and end-all.

If I say that trying to suggest that X is objectively better than Y is futile because that can't be the case, I'm a politically correct pretentious prick.

So I guess I just have to agree with you guys think on everything to avoid being insulted?

I'm entitled to my opinion, I never insulted anyone. I don't understand why people must resort to insults when they're not provoked.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Dre you are the kind of person who can and will equate homosexuality with pedophilia, basically throw any conversation off topic, and make up all kinds of bull**** that doesn't actually exist, so yeah at this point people find it pretty easy to find what you say offensive even if you didn't DIRECTLY insult them.

No one said you weren't entitled to your opinion, get that horse **** straw man out of here. If you can't take the heat, don't ****ing post.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I am really struggling to see what is going on with Falcon and Dre.

Like... what is the issue? ._.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Hey Holder.

Try reading the thread and then get back to me on that.

 

[Dre89]

I am really struggling to see what is going on with Falcon and Dre.

Like... what is the issue? ._.

Don't know. He doesn't like me for whatever reason. I think it all started because he was being rude to Luco (who is never rude to anyone) so I asked him to stop and ever since then he insults me whenever we're in the same thread.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Falcon, I had read it multiple times. It effectively did not explain anything to me. Going to have to agree with Dre. here.

 

[Luigitoilet]

If I say X is better than Y (like Teran does) but people disagree with it, all of a sudden I'm a condescending prick who thinks his opinion is be-all and end-all.

If I say that trying to suggest that X is objectively better than Y is futile because that can't be the case, I'm a politically correct pretentious prick.

So I guess I just have to agree with you guys think on everything to avoid being insulted?

I'm entitled to my opinion, I never insulted anyone. I don't understand why people must resort to insults when they're not provoked.

I'm not sure why your quoting me as I didn't insult anybody.

It should be a given that any non-quantifiable statement made by someone is their opinion. It's completely redundant to preface everything with "imo". It's not your fault if people get upset at you for saying an opinion they disagree with and not marking your statement with "THIS IS JUST MY OPINION".

On internet forums "objective" is either used completely incorrectly i.e. "you are objectively the worst poster on the forums", or it is used to explain fundamental language concepts that people should have learned in 3rd grade i.e. "saying X is objectively better than Y is futile"

I don't know what the hell you're talking about with "I guess I have to agree with everyone" as that is not a logic endpoint of me complaining about people sperging about the difference between objectivity and subjectivity.

 

[Dre89]

I'm not sure why your quoting me as I didn't insult anybody.

It should be a given that any non-quantifiable statement made by someone is their opinion. It's completely redundant to preface everything with "imo". It's not your fault if people get upset at you for saying an opinion they disagree with and not marking your statement with "THIS IS JUST MY OPINION".

On internet forums "objective" is either used completely incorrectly i.e. "you are objectively the worst poster on the forums", or it is used to explain fundamental language concepts that people should have learned in 3rd grade i.e. "saying X is objectively better than Y is futile"

I don't know what the hell you're talking about with "I guess I have to agree with everyone" as that is not a logic endpoint of me complaining about people sperging about the difference between objectivity and subjectivity.

I have common sense, I know if someone says they like a game better I know it's just their opinion, and that they don't have to state IMO every time.

However, some people do think certain games are objectively better, and criticise other people for thinking otherwise. In another thread, Falcon started insulting Luco simply because he thought his ideas on a game's design or something like that were stupid. That's where his problem with me started, because I told him to stop being rude to someone who didn't provoke him.

I know you're not the type to be rude to people who simply differ in opinion to you, but my comments were aimed at people in general. Also, my comment about being criticised if my opinion is different was a reference to the fact that I always seem to have my character criticised if I disagree with Teran on everything. You even implied that I enjoy being contrary for the sake of it. I don't even have a problem with Teran, so I don't see why people need to react everytime I disagree with him.

That's why I said that it seems that agreeing with Teran is the only way I can post without having my character criticised.

People may think what I say is stupid, but I never insulted anyone's character, so I don't know why people must insult mine.

 

[Big-Cat]

Falcon, I had read it multiple times. It effectively did not explain anything to me. Going to have to agree with Dre. here.

This can be said for just about anything Falcon says.

 

[Teran]

I dunno Dre I guess you just have to get over a bit better.

I won't lie about the fact that my natural charisma and speechcraft ability have allowed me to worm my way out of fallacious remarks in the past, but I guess the point is is that I've also had nto make a lot of good points and generally back them up well (and with a certain air of charisma) to be able to get to a point where I can sometimes step a bit off course and still not get out and out attacked.

Basically the point is you're a heel, it doesn't matter what you say you will get booed. Maybe you should work on constructing a good face turn.

 

[Dre89]

Basically the point is you're a heel, it doesn't matter what you say you will get booed. Maybe you should work on constructing a good face turn.

Funny you say that, because I always feel like the heel, even though in this case I felt like I said the face dialogue. Not just on Smashboards, but in most things in life. Then in the few instances where I've been the face and everyone is on my side I feel really awkward and don't like it. I'm like one of those foreign heels who gets a face turn for one night when the promotion is in his homeland.

Lolnooneunderstandsmemylifeissohard.

That's the thing though, I say face things nowadays but I don't get a face turn, probably because I'm saying them to another face. It seems like I can't undo the damage done by my heel days of old. I feel like people get the wrong impression about me on here, and if they met me in person that I'm not what they think I'm like.

I don't wanna be a face though. I'd rather be a tweener. But like a proper tweener, not one of those who just alternates between face and heel.

Edit- Just saw what you listed as your location. Respect. You'd be a top card though, probably one of those faces with attitude who uses heel tactics lol.

 

[Teran]

Your face dialogue doesn't work because it is delieverd like a heel.because that's what you are.

I pretty much nonstop say heelish things but the difference is people don't hate me and I don't have a history of calling out the gays. Well I do but I make it up to them with earth shattering bedroom adventures.

The point is your face act is disingenuous and nobody likes disingenuous people. Just accept the fact that you are a a heel. You'd have to do something truly spectacular to get over as a face.

IN THIS BUSINESS

WHICH IS THE BUSINESS

OF THE VUSINESS

THAT IS

THIS BUSINESS

 

[Claire Diviner]

Hey, remember that time when we were talking about the Wii retrospective, and looking over the Wii U and how it compares to the Wii? Those were the good ol' days, wouldn't you say?

 

[Teran]

Not really, because last gen sucks!

But really we've had over 3 pages of the actual topic (on 40ppp), so stop being such a joyless mini mod.

Seriously, nobody will listen to you if you don't have a red name you will just make things worse.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Not really, because last gen sucks!

But really we've had over 3 pages of the actual topic (on 40ppp), so stop being such a joyless mini mod.

Seriously, nobody will listen to you if you don't have a red name you will just make things worse.

I wasn't trying to be a mod; that was my futile attempt at even the driest of humor, but seeing as it was a complete and utter misfire, I guess I should be embarrassed? Is that the rule? Whatever the case, last gen only sucked as far as Nintendo's non-handheld console goes. It will probably suck next gen, but I'll save my judgment for after the PS4 and 720 are already out.

 

[Teran]

Last gen sucked in general, not just Nintendo.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Last gen sucked in general, not just Nintendo.

I dunno, I thought the PS3 wasn't too bad. I mean, it wasn't all that great either, given the hype, but it wasn't terrible. I'd say the same for the 360, but I never owned the system, so I can't judge, though I hear its online service was a thousand times better than the PS3. They say "you get what you pay for"; in the PS3's case, people pay nothing, so it's no surprise the online is mediocre (same goes for the Wii).

 

[Frostwraith]

as I see it, the main problem of the last gen was the tons of shovelware the consoles got (especially Nintendo's).

I am not against casual games or such. I think there should be games to appeal to all kinds of players, but there are lots of games that could have a little more effort.

mass production at the cost of quality stagnates the industry. rather than just copying the ideas of previously released games, the companies should improve upon these ideas. it's called evolution.

 

[Dre89]

as I see it, the main problem of the last gen was the tons of shovelware the consoles got (especially Nintendo's).

I am not against casual games or such. I think there should be games to appeal to all kinds of players, but there are lots of games that could have a little more effort.

mass production at the cost of quality stagnates the industry. rather than just copying the ideas of previously released games, the companies should improve upon these ideas. it's called evolution.

Nintendo doesn't need to do this at all.

Nintendo's steer towards the casual market has made them far more money than ever and they now completely dominate the market.

Churning out casual games and remakes of 2D Marios is a much more efficient way for them to make money than having to make innovative and polished games.

 

[Frostwraith]

Nintendo doesn't need to do this at all.

Nintendo's steer towards the casual market has made them far more money than ever and they now completely dominate the market.

Churning out casual games and remakes of 2D Marios is a much more efficient way for them to make money than having to make innovative and polished games.

of course... after all, it's all about "bu$in€$$"...

sure it's a good way to print money in a short term, but is it efficient in a long term?

anyone remember what was the cause of the VG Crash of '83?

 

[Falconv1.0]

of course... after all, it's all about "bu$in€$$"...

sure it's a good way to print money in a short term, but is it efficient in a long term?

anyone remember what was the cause of the VG Crash of '83?

It's fine if the demand for casual games stays like that, and seeing how the Wii U sold 400,000 copies in its first week, I'd say it's doing pretty good.

Also using $ in place of an s doesn't make you look informed or smart. In fact it kinda makes me think you're a huge tool. If it's in the interest of "business" then they aren't looking to only "print money" in the short term, dudejack.

 

[Frostwraith]

It's fine if the demand for casual games stays like that, and seeing how the Wii U sold 400,000 copies in its first week, I'd say it's doing pretty good.

Also using $ in place of an s doesn't make you look informed or smart. In fact it kinda makes me think you're a huge tool. If it's in the interest of "business" then they aren't looking to only "print money" in the short term, dudejack.

You're quick to judge other people, no? I was just making a sarcastic comment, nothing more. Despite throwing many jokes here and there, it doesn't stop me from knowing what I'm talking about. This is the Internet and I'm not tiring my nerves on writing serious comments.

anyway, my questions in that post were just rhetoric questions, thus not meant to be answered directly.

If the Wii U is selling well, it's a good sign. But, I don't think it will sell very well in some parts of Europe (including my own country: things are bad here). In this economy, only few people can enjoy such "luxuries".

 

[Falconv1.0]

There is nothing to suggest it won't continue to do well.

And lol nothing you said came off as a joke at all, especially seeing how that's not exactly a super uncommon view for people to have, being cynical about the business side of it, so yes please excuse me for not detecting the sarcasm there.

You ask if it's efficient for a long term approach and then go OH THAT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE ANSWERED DIRECTLY and I'm not supposed to continue thinking you're kind of a tool?

Ok. Sure.

 

[Teran]

You'd be surprised actually. Things that facilitate escape are very popular for those who are struggling in life.

The western hemisphere doesn't really understand the line between luxury and necessity, I really don't see financial crisis getting in the way of the sales at all.