Religion: what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Huah!

[GhostAnime]

Free will does exist

how is this even an argument about it NOT being a choice? did you honestly use your free will to become straight at the age of 7 or 8? but then again i believe if you are christian, you don't really have free will but that's a whole new debate.

honestly, you're not even homosexual. how can you tell a homosexual that it was a choice?

 

[perpetual ownage]

how is this even an argument about it NOT being a choice? did you honestly use your free will to become straight at the age of 7 or 8? but then again i believe if you are christian, you don't really have free will but that's a whole new debate.

Christians have free will. What would make you think that they don't have free will?

honestly, you're not even homosexual. how can you tell a homosexual that it was a choice?

My church pastor used to be homosexual. He said that it is a choice so that is what I have been told. It doesn't even make sense for it to not be a choice. If homosexuality is not a choice then that means that drug dealing is not a choice. It means that terrorism is not a choice. Murder is not a choice. All acts of sin are not a choice.

How is it confirmed that it is not a choice? Anyone?

 

[Gamer4Fire]

You don't have to keep repeating yourself. Free will does exist but anyway, I want proof of how it is a completely natural occurance. How can I trust that statement?

The fact that I provided a link to an article about it, could be a start. But then you seem to be ignoring stuff like that.

 

[perpetual ownage]

The fact that I provided a link to an article about it, could be a start. But then you seem to be ignoring stuff like that.

You did? Sorry if I missed that. Please forgive me of my weakness.

 

[espio87]

How is it confirmed that it is not a choice? Anyone?

(sigh), I already posted the reasons of why it isn't a choice, but since it seems you didn't read it I will post it again:
Homosexuality isn't a choice. Psychologically speaking, from the moment you are born to the moment you start your sexual life, there are an amount of variables which you don't control and which will determine your sexuality.
The only choice there is in homosexuality is wether or not you accept you are homosexual. If you are homosexual, but you deny it, you will become sexually frustrated and not able to fulfill one of life's needs.

As you can see here, in Maslow's Pyramid of Physiological Needs, the sexual need has an important role as it occupies two levels of it. I will take the sexual intimacy as an example here:
If the person is homosexual, but denies it, he/she will have big difficulties in developing the upper level of Steem. As you can see, things such as self-steem, confidence, achievement, respect for others and respect by others can't be achieved by family and friendship only. If you are not able to realize your own sexuality, then it will surely result in sexual frustation, loneliness, social anxiety and depression.

Note: thanks to www.wikipedia.org for the image.

 

[GhostAnime]

Christians have free will. What would make you think that they don't have free will?

that your fate has already been known by god and you cant act outside of it.

He said that it is a choice so that is what I have been told. It doesn't even make sense for it to not be a choice.

just read gamer's link. animals are natural about it.

 

[perpetual ownage]

But how do we know that the pyramid is reliable? It is, just a theory.

 

[Jellybelly]

My church pastor used to be homosexual. He said that it is a choice so that is what I have been told. It doesn't even make sense for it to not be a choice. If homosexuality is not a choice then that means that drug dealing is not a choice. It means that terrorism is not a choice. Murder is not a choice. All acts of sin are not a choice.

How is it confirmed that it is not a choice? Anyone?

You've been told it's a choice. Blindness, you don't have to be religious to be ignorant but it sure helps.

Your equating homosexuality to drug dealing, terrorism and murder? I cannot believe your ignorance. Interesting how all of those are illegal bar homosexuality, maybe it's because that homosexuality is not a crime, I've never heard of a gay guy beating up someone because there straight.

Oh and if your church pastor had homosexual feelings, chances are he still has them, only behavior can be changed, never orientation.

 

[perpetual ownage]

that your fate has already been known by god and you cant act outside of it.

...k

just read gamer's link. animals are natural about it.

Humans are not animals by no means.

 

[GhostAnime]

Humans are not animals by no means.

LOL! and why arent they? what makes us any different?

 

[perpetual ownage]

You've been told it's a choice. Blindness, you don't have to be religious to be ignorant but it sure helps.

Your equating homosexuality to drug dealing, terrorism and murder? I cannot believe your ignorance. Interesting how all of those are illegal bar homosexuality, maybe it's because that homosexuality is not a crime, I've never heard of a gay guy beating up someone because there straight.

Governments can be very corrupt.

Oh and if your church pastor had homosexual feelings, chances are he still has them, only behavior can be changed, never orientation.

My pastor banned homosexual marriage in Australia and is married with 5 children. Can't say that he still has homosexual feelings now can you huh?

 

[GhostAnime]

My pastor banned homosexual marriage in Australia and is married with 5 children. Can't say that he still has homosexual feelings now can you huh?

uh.. actually, he still can.

Governments can be very corrupt.

what's the relevance of this reply?

 

[perpetual ownage]

LOL! and why arent they? what makes us any different?

We have rules, society, order, shelter, governments. We are civilised. Even at primitive times, we were more advanced than animals. Our behaviour is different to animals. We have manners, animals don't. We are far smarter and superior than animals and I'd go as far as to say that animals don't experience much emotion if at all. Also, animals can't commit sin, even if they are homosexual because they don't know anything but killing and eating and sexing. They can't get married. God's law doesn't relate to them in any way.

 

[Jellybelly]

Governments can be very corrupt.



My pastor banned homosexual marriage in Australia and is married with 5 children. Can't say that he still has homosexual feelings now can you huh?

Can you say he hasn't

A friends of mines mum lived complety straight her whole life. She had 3 kids with her husband. But one day she had an affair with a women, and KNEW that she'd been living her whole life as a lie.

I asked her about it, she said she could never go back to being with a man, she now lives with this woman and they raise the youngest kid together.

Perpetual ownage, you truely are ignorant and you truely are blind. I don't even know where to begin describing how wrong you are.

"My pastor says it, so it must be true"

"The government is corrupt because it doesn't send gays to prison"

I'd forgot that there are people like you in this day and age.

 

[perpetual ownage]

uh.. actually, he still can.

Free will disagrees.

 

[espio87]

My pastor banned homosexual marriage in Australia and is married with 5 children. Can't say that he still has homosexual feelings now can you huh?

That's a common case of sexual repression. You're told homosexuality is bad, and therefore you just respress those feelings. It is absolutely unhealthy since those feelings will eventually find a way to come out, and it always is unpleasant and incredibly dangerous for yourself and for the people close to you.

And by the way, the Pyramid is accepted by science as the best way to describe human needs. Not only psychologists use it but also marketing people use. I studied it first when we were studying Marketing at school, and now I'm studying it in the subject "Psychology" of the career I'm studying.

 

[GhostAnime]

We have rules, society, order, shelter, governments. We are civilised. Even at primitive times, we were more advanced than animals. Our behaviour is different to animals. We have manners, animals don't. We are far smarter and superior than animals and I'd go as far as to say that animals don't experience much emotion if at all. Also, animals can't commit sin, even if they are homosexual because they don't know anything but killing and eating and sexing. They can't get married. God's law doesn't relate to them in any way.

none of this separates us from animals. we are animals biologically, no matter how civilized we are. get over yourself.

Free will disagrees.

not only have you not proven that you had free will under your religion, but this certainly doesnt mean that your pastor isnt gay for sure . if so, i want you to immediately turn into a homosexual sincerely. i dont care how long it takes you. force yourself.

 

[perpetual ownage]

Can you say he hasn't

A friends of mines mum lived complety straight her whole life. She had 3 kids with her husband. But one day she had an affair with a women, and KNEW that she'd been living her whole life as a lie.

I asked her about it, she said she could never go back to being with a man, she now lives with this woman and they raise the youngest kid together.

Well no-one is the same. Just because one person can't go back, doesn't mean they all can't. My pastor is not your friends mum. You are so ignorant.

Perpetual ownage, you truely are ignorant and you truely are blind. I don't even know where to begin describing how wrong you are.

I don't know how you have come to the conclusion that I am blind and ignorant. State
reasons please.

"My pastor says it, so it must be true"

I didn't say that at all.

"The government is corrupt because it doesn't send gays to prison"

Throwing them in prison wouldn't be the right thing to do about the situation. The best thing to do is to pray for them and talk to them. Gay rights is only going to make things worse. Bashing them and hating them for being gay is very very very wrong. I said earlier, hate the sin, love the person.

I'd forgot that there are people like you in this day and age.

You will be in my prayers.

 

[Gamer4Fire]

Humans are not animals by no means.

We might be high up on the food chain, but we are still all mammals.

We have rules, society, order, shelter, governments. We are civilised. Even at primitive times, we were more advanced than animals. Our behaviour is different to animals. We have manners, animals don't. We are far smarter and superior than animals and I'd go as far as to say that animals don't experience much emotion if at all. Also, animals can't commit sin, even if they are homosexual because they don't know anything but killing and eating and sexing. They can't get married. God's law doesn't relate to them in any way.

There are many animals that have rules, society and order. Wolves form packs and have hierarchical social structures. Primates for groups and can have a variety of social structures.

At the most primitive time, humans were carrion eaters that fed off the scraps of larger carnivores. We lacked tools and language and ran around naked. How is this any more advanced than modern apes? They create tools out of their environment and can learn language.

I wouldn't say that we are smarter than any other animal, only the most technologically advanced. In the Hitchhikers guide, they point out that we think we are smarter than dolphins who just swim around and have sex because we build massive buildings and electric systems and weapons to kill each other with. While dolphins probably think they are smarter because while we waste our time making buildings and power grids and weapons, they swim around and have sex all day.

And the last part about animals not knowing about sin, well nobody bothered to teach them about it and I don't think they care to learn. And animals can definitely get married. Happens all the time in India and other countries.

 

[GhostAnime]

"My pastor says it, so it must be true"

I didn't say that at all.

you didnt say the exact quote, but that is a summary of your point. simply because your pastor said he did, he did.

 

[Eor]

I forgot who it was that said it, but a gay man could have sex with a woman. It's proven that erections are not a completely under our control, so even if we feel disgusted, someone could still force an erection out of us by stimulating it. Afterwards, if the man thrusts in order to prove that he's not gay, or for any reason, the act of penetration will keep him erect enough to finish. This is why males can get *****.

 

[espio87]

I wouldn't say that we are smarter than any other animal, only the most technologically advanced. In the Hitchhikers guide, they point out that we think we are smarter than dolphins who just swim around and have sex because we build massive buildings and electric systems and weapons to kill each other with. While dolphins probably think they are smarter because while we waste our time making buildings and power grids and weapons, they swim around and have sex all day.

LOL, I know the book is Science fiction, but that part is so true
And if we were really smart, then why are we killing each other for pieces of paper and metal that can't even be eaten? Its madness I tell you, MADNESS!

 

[Jellybelly]

Bigoted post

Don't pray for me.

Sexuality is completely innate.

You can not turn a straight man gay and you can not turn a gay man straight.

You could change there behavior, admittedly through the threat of eternal ****ation. But never the orientation. This pastor may have had 5 kids, that says nothing. The fact that he has stated that hes a "former" homosexual (as if its an occupation) means that he has experienced same sex feelings.

He'll still experience them, but he'll repress them. Why? Because of religion. Because it tells him that what he feels is wrong, that it's better to live life kidding yourself (and your family) than being considered a sinner.

You'll read a 2000 year old book instead of looking at the world around you, it's quite sad really.

 

[GhostAnime]

And if we were really smart, then why are we killing each other for pieces of paper and metal that can't even be eaten?

well, it gets you something that can be eaten. heh.

 

[espio87]

Don't pray for me.

Sexuality is completely innate.

You can not turn a straight man gay and you can turn a gay man straight.

You could change there behavior, admittedly through the threat of eternal ****ation. But never the orientation. This pastor may have had 5 kids, that says nothing. The fact that he has stated that hes a "former" homosexual (as if its an occupation) means that he has experienced same sex feelings.

He'll still experience them, but he'll repress them. Why? Because of religion. Because it tells him that what he feels is wrong, that it's better to live life kidding yourself (and your family) than being considered a sinner.

You'll read a 2000 year old book instead of looking at the world around you, it's quite sad really.

And like I previously said, those feelings will find a way to get out and he'll be putting himself in danger and the people close to him, too. Man, Freud was a genius!

 

[perpetual ownage]

We might be high up on the food chain, but we are still all mammals.



There are many animals that have rules, society and order. Wolves form packs and have hierarchical social structures. Primates for groups and can have a variety of social structures.

Good point.

At the most primitive time, humans were carrion eaters that fed off the scraps of larger carnivores. We lacked tools and language and ran around naked. How is this any more advanced than modern apes? They create tools out of their environment and can learn language.

As soon as Adam and Eve were banished from the garden, swords existed. We had weapons from the get go of becoming imperfect beings. Cain killed Able. I would think it would have been with some sort of tool but the bible doesn't specify.

I wouldn't say that we are smarter than any other animal, only the most technologically advanced. In the Hitchhikers guide, they point out that we think we are smarter than dolphins who just swim around and have sex because we build massive buildings and electric systems and weapons to kill each other with. While dolphins probably think they are smarter because while we waste our time making buildings and power grids and weapons, they swim around and have sex all day.

Hitchhikers is a fictional book but it does have interesting opinions about..... stuff.

And the last part about animals not knowing about sin, well nobody bothered to teach them about it and I don't think they care to learn. And animals can definitely get married. Happens all the time in India and other countries.

I don't think those animals were really aware of them being married. I'm talking about proper marriage, not..... forced marriage.

Science hasn't fully proven itself and neither has Christianity. Choose what you want to believe.

 

[GhostAnime]

Science hasn't fully proven itself and neither has Christianity. Choose what you want to believe.

science is at least observable and has a basis of foundation.

all you have is an old book. and i highly suggest you stop using it to prove your points here.

 

[perpetual ownage]

science is at least observable and has a basis of foundation.

all you have is an old book. and i highly suggest you stop using it to prove your points here.

God's law doesn't need to be changed. Why should I stop using it?

 

[GhostAnime]

do i need to repeat myself?

how do you know the book is as true as it says?

 

[perpetual ownage]

Don't pray for me.

Sexuality is completely innate.

You can not turn a straight man gay and you can not turn a gay man straight.

You could change there behavior, admittedly through the threat of eternal ****ation. But never the orientation. This pastor may have had 5 kids, that says nothing. The fact that he has stated that hes a "former" homosexual (as if its an occupation) means that he has experienced same sex feelings.

He'll still experience them, but he'll repress them. Why? Because of religion. Because it tells him that what he feels is wrong, that it's better to live life kidding yourself (and your family) than being considered a sinner.

You'll read a 2000 year old book instead of looking at the world around you, it's quite sad really.

It's sad that I wont see you in heaven. Why do you refuse prayer?

 

[perpetual ownage]

do i need to repeat myself?

how do you know the book is as true as it says?

It makes sense. All you need to know anyway is that Jesus died for you. so you may have eternal life and life in abundance. Budha didn't die for you.

 

[GhostAnime]

religious preaching doesnt prove points. logic and facts do.

 

[perpetual ownage]

religious preaching doesnt prove points. logic and facts do.

Then prove that science is completely reliable.

 

[Jellybelly]

It's sad that I wont see you in heaven. Why do you refuse prayer?

Ha.

I'd like to say actually, that people like you are a dying breed.

100 years ago, most people thought like you.

And 500 years ago EVERYONE thought like you.

But more and more people aren't chained in by religion, aren't told how to think and feel and certainly aren't taken in by "I was gay but now i'm not" bull that you've been spouting.

It's an annoyance, organised religion seated itself into society when it was stupid and easy to control. For hundreds of years it spooned up power (because power is essentially what religion is) and only in the last century have people actually started to question it (evolution, the proposterousness of the ark, the big bang.)

It's weird how the majority over time turned into the minority isn't it?

 

[perpetual ownage]

Ha.

I'd like to say actually, that people like you are a dying breed.

100 years ago, most people thought like you.

And 500 years ago EVERYONE thought like you.

But more and more people aren't chained in by religion, aren't told how to think and feel and certainly aren't taken in by "I was gay but now i'm not" bull that you've been spouting.

It's an annoyance, organised religion seated itself into society when it was stupid and easy to control. For hundreds of years it spooned up power (because power is essentially what religion is) and only in the last century have people actually started to question it (evolution, the proposterousness of the ark, the big bang.)

It's weird how the majority over time turned into the minority isn't it?

Well it grieves my heart to hear that thats the way you think.

 

[GhostAnime]

Then prove that science is completely reliable.

stop taking medicine. stop using your computer. stop using time to determine when you wake up and when to go to sleep.

 

[perpetual ownage]

stop taking medicine. stop using your computer. stop using time to determine when you wake up and when to go to sleep.

What kind of an answer was that? You trying to mess with my head?

 

[GhostAnime]

do you even know what science is?

 

[perpetual ownage]

Yes I do. Now answer me properly. No more mindgames. How do you know that science completely reliable?

 

[GhostAnime]

i'm not messing with your head. that IS science. if you dont find science completely reliable, stop using it!