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Religion: what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Huah!

pikachun00b7

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
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Location
Phillipsburg, NJ
Religion causes war. War eventuallly ends in peace.
Thanks for attributing all the wars to religion, without base.

Anyway, many people have religion for spiritual comfort.

@Jigglywiggy
People should not argue evolution is wrong. Just to prove god exists. Remember Galileo's persecution. I think it is just stupid arguing against evidence that clearly gives strong logical explanation.

I can't see how someone can hold the belief that God is all loving, but hates gays. Or that he "doesn't hate them, he's just ****ing them to eternal punishment", or even just "he's disappointed" with them, when they do no harm to nobody, not even themselves. It's bigotry and intolerance all over again, the bible has 1-2 versus on Homosexuality, yet around a third of the bible is about how you shouldn't tolerate heathens and non-Christians, so why aren't you people out there calling for them to not be allowed to have their own rights?

I have absolutley no problem with any religion, except for when they're taken literally. If you take a book written hundreds of years ago ago about morals literally, then you're going to have morals that have been outdated for hundreds of years. That is true of any religion.
God never hates, Eor. He loves everyone. Average Joe he loves. Rapists, murderers,non-tolerating bigots, people of ALL religions, homosexuals, Heterosexuals, etc. He loves all of us. He is also disappointed at us because we do things that make society a little worse for everyone. [sin]
A Murder denies life. A **** affects the victim the rest of her(His? lol) life. What wrong is homosexuality? The cathoilic Church believes Homosexuals should not ever face hate. But they believe there is something wrong with the act. We are given genital organs for making babies.(Duh) And doing anything else with it is a sin. xD

It contradicts something we believe as "Natural Law." Like coyotes are fast so they can hunt well.
And other niches we have. We have *****es to make babies. That is how we survive and live more than one generation. Homosexuals do not make babies, therefore they are hurting society.
A sin.
 

RazeveX

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
727
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2nd cardboard box to your right
First, let me say i do not follow any religion and personally cannot understand why i am meant to believe in something without proof.

But thats the kind of new generation we are, right? We are cynical, less emotive, curious, and are always questioning things. Thats who we are (not to say people from other generations do or do not have these traits).

It's fine that you (the OP, and many others) feel that god does not exist, or religion is false, or something similar; but you can't go on and think that you are right just because...well...you think you are! No matter how much evidence you have, you can never know you are right. Realizing this makes you MUCH closer to being a better person (not saying you aren't now).

My sister is very confident in herself (in her mid 20s). She is UNABLE to see things from others point of view, which is quite bad. Very bad.
She (like all of us in our family) have a fast metabolism, and we tend not to gain weight. She doesnt realize it is harder for others to keep fit, and that food may become addictive. She thinks that fat people are stupid for not being able to exercise and stay thin. She thinks all fat people are lower than her, as well as people who believe certain things. Just today she was arguing that i was brainwashed by the tv telling me to vote a certain way in the upcoming election (i am under voting age). She then went on to attempt to try and brainwash me to vote her way, thinking she was right. I asked her; "how do you know your opinions are right?" She said "I just do. Its common sense."

After 1 hour, i was unable to reason with her.

Many people in this thread (and world) are similar. Of course, not as bad.


My dad once told me that i can get into much trouble by discussing politics and religion, and i think he was right. The exception being discussing it with people you know and trust. The internet doesnt have a good track record with that.
Small sections of this thread have slightly offended me, and it has probably offended others beliefs as well. Nothing good can come from discussing this. We can't solve anything, and we cant agree. No one in this thread will go "hey, your right. I'm changing my views on religion."


Why can't we agree to disagree??

Peace,

H1roshi

P.S I want you all to know that i have strong views on this issue, but i dont feel any compulsions to discuss them.
 

CodeBlack

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
733
I'd really rather that this conversation not turn into a conversation about evolution, seeing as you usually have two sides that simply do not listen to the other in such a conversation.

I'd be great if this conversation went back to the way it was merely a day ago, with people respectfully and intelligently discussing beliefs, but I suppose that, now that this thread's attracted the "religious people who don't accept anything but religion" and the "atheists whose sole purpose is to 'disprove'" religion, I suppose that's impossible (before we had people who would accept other people's beliefs).
 

serosfan

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Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
83
Location
The Ark
I think people are foolish to spend their lives cowering in Church, trying to bargain their way into an area of the universe, or another plane of existence, that may or may not exist.

I believe we were created to live. Not to worry about the afterlife. Not to freak over every tiny "sin". Honestly, would God, or Allah, or Jesus, or who ever you think created you want to you spend your limited, precious time trying to get in their good blessings?

I find it offensive when people claim that things will destroy the world. Abortions, Video Games, Music. Was it not barely 50 years ago when the tunes of Elvis Presley not considered Evil because Rock and Roll is different?

The Bible, or any other Holy Literature, in my opinion, is a set of guidelines created to help us live good lives. I know I live a good life from using the Bible as guidelines and morals to learn off of. Believe it or not, that thought was first implanted into my head by South Park. Even a show like that has ideas that make sense, from thoughts of politics to religion. Then WHY is it too stereotyped as "Evil" by some?

I consider myself in a Religion of my own, due to my belief in both a higher creation, and in the scientific theories of the universe. Is that really wrong enough to be shunned by my peers?
 

PaperDream

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Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
113
Location
Kansas
Homosexuals do not make babies, therefore they are hurting society.
A sin.
So a married Christian man and his wife are sinning if they don't have a child and/or don't intend to? What if they can't no matter how hard they try? I guess that'd still be a sin, because you know, not making babies is a sin. Next time I see a Christian who doesn't have at least one child I'm going to try and explain to them how they're hurting society.

Seriously though, what's the difference between 2 homosexuals and 2 heterosexuals who can't have a child? They're both bad for society by this logic.

We are given genital organs for making babies.(Duh) And doing anything else with it is a sin. xD
So I guess doing something besides making babies with your sexual organs is bad as well. Forget protected sex, because unless you're making a baby, you're deviating from the purpose and sinning.

Urinating is doing something else than making a baby with your sexual organ. (you said doing anything else is a sin....urinating is a sin) duh XD
 

Keku

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Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
170
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Finland
That's a joke, right?

Alright, I think I can help here a bit. Bear with me a moment.

1. Genetic mutations occur in animals, correct? For example, cats normally have five toes on each paw, but some have a genetic mutation that causes them to have six or even seven toes. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#Legs)

2. Suppose the cat's extra toes let them hunt better, or escape from predators better then regular five-toed cats. This would allow them to live longer and breed more, correct?

3. Suppose when those cats breeded, their genes for the extra toes is passed on to their offspring, resulting in even more extra toed cats. This is certainly possible, correct?

4. Eventually, the extra toed cats superior hunting and survival abilities would lead them to outnumbering regular, five-toed cats. Possibly even replacing them completely. Correct?

Right there, in four steps, I just proved to you natural selection, adaption and evolution.

Natural selection is the process where certain traits, such as the cat's extra toes, allow a mutated animal to live longer and breed more.

Adaption is when an animal gains a benecial trait such as the extra toes.

Evolution is the accumilation of thousands of beneficial traits over a number of years (usually in the millions).

Q.E.D.
Allright, a cat gets 6 toes instead of 5. That's fine. Care to explain how new structures could be formed with mutations? Firstly, there's no record of a positive mutation what-so-ever. Secondly, for a valid new structure (such as the eye, brain, scale, feather et cetera) to be born, it'd require MANY positive mutations. A scale doesn't just magically poof into a feather, right?

During those millions of years of evolution you speak of, wouldn't 'natural selection' take care of the elimination of any useless/not complete structures that are formed through mutations? Mutations cause mutants, *******, not new, working structures.

Edit: 100 posts wee.
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
1,840
So a married Christian man and his wife are sinning if they don't have a child and/or don't intend to? What if they can't no matter how hard they try? I guess that'd still be a sin, because you know, not making babies is a sin. Next time I see a Christian who doesn't have at least one child I'm going to try and explain to them how they're hurting society.

Seriously though, what's the difference between 2 homosexuals and 2 heterosexuals who can't have a child? They're both bad for society by this logic.



So I guess doing something besides making babies with your sexual organs is bad as well. Forget protected sex, because unless you're making a baby, you're deviating from the purpose and sinning.

Urinating is doing something else than making a baby with your sexual organ. (you said doing anything else is a sin....urinating is a sin) duh XD
OHH SNAP!! misread the first part of your post sorry. But, no they are not sinning. The ultimate point here is that God made it a certain way, and anything other than the way he made it is hurtful to you (aka sin).

as for the urinating part, well......I think you know he didn't mean it to sound that way. xD
 

PukeTShirt

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Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
279
Location
Strongsville, OH
Religion is based on faith. Science's Evolution is based on faith. Guess what? WE'RE ALL ****ING HYPOCRITES.
No, no, no no no no....

Religion is based on faith of what we are told. Evolution is based on mountains of evidence that support it, and to say that it is based on faith shows a complete lack of understanding of the scientific method.

Allright, a cat gets 6 toes instead of 5. That's fine. Care to explain how new structures could be formed with mutations? Firstly, there's no record of a positive mutation what-so-ever. Secondly, for a valid new structure (such as the eye, brain, scale, feather et cetera) to be born, it'd require MANY positive mutations. A scale doesn't just magically poof into a feather, right?

During those millions of years of evolution you speak of, wouldn't 'natural selection' take care of the elimination of any useless/not complete structures that are formed through mutations? Mutations cause mutants, *******, not new, working structures.

Edit: 100 posts wee.
There actually have been studies with generations of bacteria that show that over a couple of generations, they can mutate to adapt to different types of anti-bacterial's and the like. Also, it happens all the time with cockroaches too, as exterminators are always having to come up with new sprays and chemicals because what they used last year doesn't work anymore. And to address the idea that bad/useless mutations would be naturally selected out, that's kind of the entire idea of natural selection. The things that don't work well die. So yeah, the reason we don't see a large number of animals running around who have evolved useless limbs, organs, ect. is because the ones that mutated in a way that hasn't helped them didn't get any significant advantage didn't take precedence over the other ones. Also, any mutations like that that would cause harm to the organism would, through natural selection, die off. It's really not that hard of a concept.
 

Kirby knight

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Pennsylvania
This thread seemed interesting so I've decided to post a few questions for those who believe that the Bible should be taken literally.

How do you know for an absolute fact that everything written in the Bible is a direct result of being inspired by god? Could there not be a single lie in the Bible? Could their not have been a single verse written solely for imposing this "so called will of God" in order to have better control over someone or something Could the Bible be so outdated that it cannot be taken literally?

I recall reading something that (I'm not entirely sure so if I'm wrong please correct me) that as stated in the Bible a wife should love, honor and obey her husband. Say her husband orders her to lick his feet after a hard days work, and the wife does not want to do such an act; in accordance with the bible she is no longer obeying her husband's wishes and as such is a sinner for not doing what he requested.

Even if what I thought I heard wasn't from the bible it doesn't change how people can quote a bible verse as "this is god's word and as such should be obeyed without question", while some of the more ludicrous entries go ignored.

-Knight
 

Haruno Kotetsu

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Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
507
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Princeton, WV
Religion can help people cope with everyday life and die happy in hope for an afterlife.
There has been no scientific proof of everything in our harsh world, but some things can be experienced.

Has anyone ever been through a supernatural experience? Such as pray and result, seeing supernatural beings, and revelations? I have, and im not praching or anything, but the reason I believe is through experiencing these kind of things.

I was at church doubting god in the middle of worship, and as irrelivant as this sounds, I asked God to bring someone over, such as a youth pastor, to talk to me. 2 came over and said God told them to come over and said it is good im doubting existance to challange my faiths. I said, "Okay, send someone else over." And the pastor came over in the middle of worship and told me everything on my mind without me saying a word to him about my thoughts.

That sir, is not things just happening. (And I apologize for rambling on, seriously.)

And as well, I think someone covered this but ill say it anyway lol, the reason things are so wrong in this world today and why innocent people die fro diseases and war, is because mankind bought it upon us with sin, humans are very far from perfect. "God", is like a father to us, and there can be something called tough love from time to time, punishing us for the problems we brought into this world, but "He" still loves us.

Not trying to start anything ^^;
 

Sliq

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
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The next person that argues that homosexuality is bad because the human race would die off due to rampant gay is going to get socked in the jaw.

This may have a applied THOUSANDS of years ago, but the world right now is VERY overpopulated, and I fail to see how we would need more humans.

And if you agree that this does not apply now like it did back then, then you would also have to acknowledge that other instances in the Bible may also NOT BE VALID IN TODAY'S SOCIETY.
 

Eor

Banned via Warnings
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Edit: Woah, missed the entire third page. Editting

"Don't have promiscuous sex" - you might end up with a baby you don't want and/or AIDS
That is true of all sex, in marriage or not

"Don't have homosexual sex" - if everyone were doing it, we'd run out of people.
The idea that homosexuality spreads is coming straight out of the Religious Right's mouth. Just about every start of civilization had widespread homosexuality, but none of them ran out of people. Spartans had constant gay relationships with their fellow soldiers and mentors, and their woman had with other woman while their men where away. This was encouraged. Athens had the same thing, and it was also encouraged. Neither of them died out due to lack of population.

Allright, a cat gets 6 toes instead of 5. That's fine. Care to explain how new structures could be formed with mutations? Firstly, there's no record of a positive mutation what-so-ever. Secondly, for a valid new structure (such as the eye, brain, scale, feather et cetera) to be born, it'd require MANY positive mutations. A scale doesn't just magically poof into a feather, right?
Again, this is you talking about something you have no idea about.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/feathers.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB301.html

During those millions of years of evolution you speak of, wouldn't 'natural selection' take care of the elimination of any useless/not complete structures that are formed through mutations? Mutations cause mutants, *******, not new, working structures.
Funny, that's one of the arguments even the creationalists are urging their members to never use (http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp)

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mutations.html#Q2

It's really one of the best websites that breaks down Evolution, and no, it doesn't mentioned God, because it has nothing to do with religion.

Almost all arguments made here against evolution boil down to "I don't understand it, therefore it doesn't' exist".

Edit: And just before someone accuses me, all I'm arguing against here is a war on science and morality that I think it caused by the Religious Right, not against Religion. I live in Texas, all of my friends are religious and I really don't care, being Agnostic I have no problem with any religion.
 

Eor

Banned via Warnings
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My bad, was witting a response in a new page and forgot to edit it together
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
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Feb 6, 2007
Messages
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This thread seemed interesting so I've decided to post a few questions for those who believe that the Bible should be taken literally.

How do you know for an absolute fact that everything written in the Bible is a direct result of being inspired by god? Could there not be a single lie in the Bible? Could their not have been a single verse written solely for imposing this "so called will of God" in order to have better control over someone or something Could the Bible be so outdated that it cannot be taken literally?

I recall reading something that (I'm not entirely sure so if I'm wrong please correct me) that as stated in the Bible a wife should love, honor and obey her husband. Say her husband orders her to lick his feet after a hard days work, and the wife does not want to do such an act; in accordance with the bible she is no longer obeying her husband's wishes and as such is a sinner for not doing what he requested.

Even if what I thought I heard wasn't from the bible it doesn't change how people can quote a bible verse as "this is god's word and as such should be obeyed without question", while some of the more ludicrous entries go ignored.

-Knight
I need to say this in clarification. You would probably call me a "christian", but believe me, I'm quite different from what you're most likely stereotyping me as. I need to say that some of you are partially right in saying that "religion" is bad for the world. Guess what, IT IS BAD!! "Religion" is a bunch of manmade laws and principles that were created either on purpose or not, and have given certain people power or "authority" which they are not supposed to have. God is God. They are not God. GOD is God. There are a TON(as in, A MASSVE TON) of people who are "christian" but take things in the Bible out of context. that is to say, certain verses are quoted back and forth, upside down, and even turned multicolored. BUT, those same verses mean almost nothing like what they would make you think that they mean. Like, way over 3/4 of the New Testament in the Bible are letters, but they take ONE verse and quote as efore stated and sayy that it means one thing. However, if I sent you a letter and you took one sentence from it and based something really important off of it, and it didn't even relate to that thing that you're doing?? C'mon peoplez!! That would be stupid wouldn't it? They do the same thing in the "churches" (btw, the PEOPLE are the church, NOT the buildings. a "church" building is NOT the house of God. He lives inside the people who trust him, thus making them the house of God.) "Christianity is NOT supposed to be a "religion", but it has become one which is why I don't like be associated with it. It is SUPPOSED to be a RELATIONSHIP with your daddy God who created the universe. This being that you love him, talk with him and so on, not a set of rules and regs that he did not even create. The ONLY command that Jesus essentially gave, was to love. Not do certain things or not do cetain things just love. Love God, love the people around you(not just your family and friends), and also to love yourself, but NOT in an arrogant way, just in confidence way and having goo self esteem. You can't love other people if you don't love yourself. (again, this does NOT mean arrogance or conceit). When you love, then certain things are just automatically going to happen (or not happen when it's a bad thing). Okay also, having a relationship with daddy God does NOT necesarily mean going to church every week and on wednesdays. In fact, if you've been reading this post, then you know that you might actually be better off not going, because of it becoming a religious building. As long as you love God and want to know him (trust me, he's sooooooooo awesome. you gotta try him for yourself. I mean, he's always there to talk to you[yes, ppl can talk to god, and he talks back even. pretty tight stuff I know], he'll comfort you when you feel down, plus he WANTS to be with you. What else do you need? The creator OF THE UNIVERSE wants to be with you and spend time with you. How awesome is that?!?!) then he will begin to tell you things and he'll begin to tell you that he loves you if you'll listen for him to, and he'll give you things cuz he wants to(not because you earned them with your "good works", but because he WANTS to see you happy cuz he loves you and created you), he'll even lead you throughout your life and keep you safe. CAN YOU BEAT THAT!!!!!


Seriously guys, becaue "christianity" has become a religion, it is now looked on with disgust practically throughout the whole world. Now God is a set of rules and if you don't follow them flawlessly, then you're going to hell?!?! NOT SO AT ALL!! And god is now sitting upstairs with a bat waiting to blast you when you screw up?!?! WTC!!! NEVER!!!! He is love. not loving(though that IS included in the package). But he IS love. If you truly love someone, then it could not happen unless God existed, because he is love. If you screw up, he's not gonna belt you with some BB gun or something!! If you screw up, he wants to see you running back to his outstretched arms of forgiveness. When you do something wrong, it hurts him inside. He doesn't start laughing cuz now he gets to punish you. He WANTS you to return to a close relationship with him again. HE LOVES YOU!!!! HE DOES NOT WANT TO SEE YOU MESS UP!!! He wants to see you do the right things according to how he set things up. ie. man with woman, no taking what does not belong to you(or wanting to) everyone hears those, but it's noe even that complicated. Just love with his kind of love(looking out for others, not wanting to hurt them etc...). that's the only TRUE law. The Beatles had it near right with their famous song "all you need is love", though they meant it a different way.


Alright like I said, I'm not even close to your stereotype of me so...don't put me in a box plz. I'm just trying to renew God's reputation and how the whole world views him, since it's been all scewed up by religion. thx for reading this extensive post
quoted for reply
 

KingJiggyWiggy

Smash Lord
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I will never tell. :D
Using a scientists argument, one can disprove their theory of evolution with their own argument.

Argument: Vids or it didn't happen.

Okay so you have some "relations" or "evidence" (and religion has it too) but you have never seen, smelt, felt, tasted, or heard evolution OR religion.

I think people are foolish to spend their lives cowering in Church, trying to bargain their way into an area of the universe, or another plane of existence, that may or may not exist.

I believe we were created to live. Not to worry about the afterlife. Not to freak over every tiny "sin". Honestly, would God, or Allah, or Jesus, or who ever you think created you want to you spend your limited, precious time trying to get in their good blessings?

I find it offensive when people claim that things will destroy the world. Abortions, Video Games, Music. Was it not barely 50 years ago when the tunes of Elvis Presley not considered Evil because Rock and Roll is different?

The Bible, or any other Holy Literature, in my opinion, is a set of guidelines created to help us live good lives. I know I live a good life from using the Bible as guidelines and morals to learn off of. Believe it or not, that thought was first implanted into my head by South Park. Even a show like that has ideas that make sense, from thoughts of politics to religion. Then WHY is it too stereotyped as "Evil" by some?

I consider myself in a Religion of my own, due to my belief in both a higher creation, and in the scientific theories of the universe. Is that really wrong enough to be shunned by my peers?
Oh poor poor serosfan you are sadly mistaken. :( Religion wasn't meant to create fear of the afterlife, although the mass media today is ruining its name.

@PukeTshirt: Religion has it's fair share of evidence known as the "Shroud of Turin."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aecIISVNF4k
 

pikachun00b7

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Joined
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Messages
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Phillipsburg, NJ
Responce in bold.
So a married Christian man and his wife are sinning if they don't have a child and/or don't intend to?If it is due to financial problems, then OK. But if you are able to have a child than it would be a sin not to. Unless, the conditions are not right at the moment. (Ex: one spouse wants to finish college before family, house/apartment, etc.) If one feels that the child would be in good condition, it should be raised. What if they can't no matter how hard they try? I guess that'd still be a sin, because you know, not making babies is a sin.Sins are intent. Did she choose to be infertile? No. Next time I see a Christian who doesn't have at least one child I'm going to try and explain to them how they're hurting society. I would suggest not to. lol

Seriously though, what's the difference between 2 homosexuals and 2 heterosexuals who can't have a child? They're both bad for society by this logic.
No. The homosexuals have that choice. I am not sure about marrying an infertile women. If you can some how a make a man pregnant threw super awesomeness, then good. But I am arguing that the act is denying the world of babies. Purposely.


So I guess doing something besides making babies with your sexual organs is bad as well. Forget protected sex, because unless you're making a baby, you're deviating from the purpose and sinning.

Urinating is doing something else than making a baby with your sexual organ. (you said doing anything else is a sin....urinating is a sin) duh XD
I meant sexual.
The "no babies" reasoning seems bad. However People are worth something, maybe it is not hurting the world, but it denies the world of a new *insert profession here*.Even though individual people are worth less to society then in the past, they are still worth something. Unless you can explain how people are worth nothing.

Also, do not take "ZomG Homosexuality is a sin," too seriously. Masturbation is also a mortal sin.( and eating a lot is as well) One thing I have against the Catholic church is the difference of Mortal/Venial sins. Not much proof.

Homosexuality is really a big issue when the church is involved. People immediately that the Vatican wants do **** the gay people.( lol the "****" was supposed to be the word sounding dam. XD) This is the opposite. Gay people receive can all rites as Heterosexuals(Except for marriage and priesthood, priests cant be anything sexual.)


"homosexual persons, like everyone else, should not suffer from prejudice against their basic human rights. They have a right to respect, friendship and justice. They should have an active role in the Christian community"
-To Live in Christ Jesus, Issue#52

that is the catholic belief.

Read

Arguing about religion is ugly. It is full of misunderstandings and hate.
If you are going to argue about religious groups, do some researchers. If you want to argue that God doesn't/does exist, good luck on the proof.

One of Christianity's core beliefs is that if everyone followed the word of God, the world will be a batter place.

Edit: KingJiggyWiggy: Do not argue about something you do not now a paragraph about.
 

Sliq

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
4,871
The "no babies" reasoning seems bad. However People are worth something, maybe it is not hurting the world, but it denies the world of a new *insert profession here*.Even though individual people are worth less to society then in the past, they are still worth something. Unless you can explain how people are worth nothing.
Yeah, and maybe the baby is the next Hitler. You have no way of knowing.

Furthermore, the original point was due about extinction, but I will address your point.

People aren't worth anything. People aren't quantitative goods. People aren't dollars, so stop addressing human potential as a tangible, measurable thing. Some people grow up to be Doctors, some grow up and become Janitors.

If gay people have sex, Doctors aren't going to get wiped off the face of the earth, while Janitors flourish. There will be almost no change in the world because one dude wants to plug another dude, and to think otherwise is absolutely ridiculous.

The fact of the matter is, there is A LOT of people on this planet as is, and there doesn't need to be more. We are already ****** our natural resources in the ***. I can't imagine what that would be like with even 10% more people (600 million, roughly).

Also, last time I checked, their are plenty of parent-less orphans.

One of Christianity's core beliefs is that if everyone followed the word of God, the world will be a batter place.
I wouldn't have a problem with this if it weren't for the fact that the Bible is the word of God, according to some dude that wrote it.

Also, the Bible is basically God's blog. He should probably update it, I mean, it has been thousands of years.
 

smashplayer16

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Joined
Dec 31, 2006
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589
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Gainesville Fl
I know you guys are going to own me cause I haven' t been doing much studying into it but, it would seem like the new testament would apply to Christians because thats when Christianity started, with Paul i think. He wrote some of the stuff that Christians can apply to their lives(not saying the old testament doesn't do that).
 

AltF4

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This thread has just about run its course. Fun while it lasted, very nearly 24 hours before breaking down into mindless bickering.

Too bad nobody ever responded to me. I thought I put an ample amount of both intelligence and sarcastic flame to enrage the religious posters, but I got only one brief (and expected) response.

I therefore claim victory in this thread like a spanish conquistador. Enjoy your smallpox.
 

smashplayer16

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This thread has just about run its course. Fun while it lasted, very nearly 24 hours before breaking down into mindless bickering.

Too bad nobody ever responded to me. I thought I put an ample amount of both intelligence and sarcastic flame to enrage the religious posters, but I got only one brief (and expected) response.

I therefore claim victory in this thread like a spanish conquistador. Enjoy your smallpox.

^^ my fault,.... im going to eat some chicken now
 

AltF4

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If you'd like an evolution topic make one, but it's a highly scientific subject so don't expect to get there without having done a lot of actual research on the subject, rather than just what your priest tells you.
 

Eor

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Okay so you have some "relations" or "evidence" (and religion has it too) but you have never seen, smelt, felt, tasted, or heard evolution
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html#observe

You have never seen, smelt, felt, tasted, or heard gravity, but you still believe it, because that's not how to tell if something is real.

Stop trying to claim Evolution means no god exists, athiesm and Evolution have no correlation.

@PukeTshirt: Religion has it's fair share of evidence known as the "Shroud of Turin."
A cloth with the image of a man being crucified on it is no evidence of religion. It is interesting, but when science placed the cloth being made in the 13th century, there is no reason to believe it is Christ.
 

Jammer

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Stop trying to claim Evolution means no god exists, athiesm and Evolution have no correlation.
Well, they definitely have a very pronounced correlation. Most atheists believe in evolution, and probably the majority of religious people believe in Creationism.

But Eor is totally right that evolution doesn't necessarily mean there is no God. I believe in God and evolution, and I have not found any reason to change that.

Also, I don't think it's that important how the world was started. I think people make way too big a deal out of it.

I just wish more religious people realised that evolution is a very good way for an omniscient being to "create" things with a minimum of interference, which God seems to like.
 

Eor

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Well, they definitely have a very pronounced correlation. Most atheists believe in evolution, and probably the majority of religious people believe in Creationism.
Majority of atheists believe in evolution because it is a scientific fact, and they don't have a televangelist telling them otherwise. I see where you say there is correlation, but I more meant that evolution doesn't lead to Atheism, and that Evolution doesn't mean there is no God.
 

AltF4

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Umm... doesn't everyone know that the Vatican officially stated that evolution is true. So if you're christian, you should believe in evolution. The church said so... seriously, look it up.

They just said that Darwin was wrong about natural selection, the christian church says that it is intelligent design (rather than natural selection) that causes evolution.

So stop trying to say that evolution doesn't exist on the basis on being christian, you apparently don't even know your own beliefs. (A common christian trait also)
 

PaperDream

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Yeah, and maybe the baby is the next Hitler. You have no way of knowing.

Furthermore, the original point was due about extinction, but I will address your point.

People aren't worth anything. People aren't quantitative goods. People aren't dollars, so stop addressing human potential as a tangible, measurable thing. Some people grow up to be Doctors, some grow up and become Janitors.
Thank you!

And pikachun00b7, when you respond to things I say, please don't post your responses within the quote of what I said, and if you do make it more distinguishable for people to CLEARLY see that I didn't say those things (you did bold them, but I don't think that's enough, a different color would be a better choice) Because at first glance it can look like you put words in my mouth/misquoted me, and it could also look like I said/believe some of those things, which I don't. ( especially things like "But if you are able to have a child than it would be a sin not to." Which I think are bizarre assertions)
 

Relean

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I finally come across a topic like this.

I'm 15, turning 16 in a few months. I was raised in a Christian family, and used to believe in God until a few years ago. If he does exist, then he has failed me, and that's why I don't believe.

When I was little my parents got divorced, and I, being the only child, didn't have anybody to go to. So I prayed. I prayed for them to stay together and to love each other again, and nothing happened. I've never really been a selfish person, so when I used to pray, I usually asked for happines and peace, not for me,-there have been some serious problems in my life, and I won't talk about them now- but for the one's I loved. Nothing happened. Absolutely nothing changed.

What's wrong with answering a boy's prayer? If God is almighty and I ask him for peace for someone else, why not grant it?

Then I ask myself, why is there so much sadness in this world. Why would a loving God would let that happen. Some may say it's our own fault. Then, why did God create us? He wanted us to praise him and love him, but he was already perfect and didn't need us, so why are we here?

He punishes us for breaking his rules, when he gave us free will to do whatever the hell we want to do. Why set the rules then?

I don't believe in God. I believe in me, and what I can achieve because I work for it, instead of praying and hoping for God to give it to me.

Oh, and the church is the most corrupt thing in this world. They blindly guide the masses to their own destruction.

I dont' mean to offend anybody with this post, nor I want someone to offend me by trying to explain all these questions saying that God knows better.
 

commonyoshi

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You haven't answered my question at all if your post, all you did was pull up Bible quotes which added nothing to the argument at hand. Why do you follow parts, but not others?
Alright, maybe I didn't make things entirely clear. My bad.

The Laws of Leviticus were intended for the Jews, and only them, to follow when they were a nation set apart by God. However, there is now a new covenant sealed through Christ's blood, and the old one is gone because there is no "nation of God" that is seperated from the world. Before, the Jews were isolated in their faith, now Christians are called to go throughout the world and spread the gospel.

Do you want more proof that Leviticus was intended for the Jews, and the Jews only? Why is it that God never sent the Israelites out to destroy cities that were considered evil by the standards of Leviticus? The Israelites marched against those who were hostile towards them or those who were in the promised land (which is a debate for later). Consider Sodom, Gammorah (sp?), Moab, Assyria, and many more nations I dont remember. Israel never attacked any of them. Look at Ezekiel 25-32 or Isaiah 13-24 for proof of this. It was God who judged these cities and nations.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside of the church? Are you [Christians] not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside."

This is what this whole arguement is based upon. Neither Christians in the current times, nor Jews in the ancient times are fit to discipline those outside their faith. That is left to the government and those outside the faith. The only job Christians have is sharing the gospel.

Now, going back to my first paragraph about how there is a new covenant. Jesus forgave the adulteress who, according to the Law of Leviticus, deserved death. There is also the account of the "immoral brother" in 1 Corinthians 5 who slept with his father's wife, something also punishable through death. Both these people's death as "their blood will be on their own heads". (as said in Lev) However, there was now a new covenant, one who's message is grace through faith.

Of course, people ,as part of human kind created by God, are expected to follow the morals of Leviticus. Dont steal, murder, and so on, but it's not the same as being under the Law of Leviticus.

So, in conclusion, I do not pick and chose what rules of God I want to follow. The Law of Leviticus is void through Christ's death, although I am expected to follow it morals. The law of the United States is what we now follow concerning illegal activity like murder.
Unless I'm mistaking your quote, it seems to me like you're saying god decided homosexuality was bad because he felt like it, therefore it's immoral and we should all follow it.
Exactly. God designed the world with certain rules in tact. Any breaking of these laws would be considered abominations, namely sin. Sin, which is the absence from God, was never part of God's perfect creation. It is judged to be wrong. In the same way, homosexuality was never part of God's creation, but resulted from the fall of man.
Then why would the Bible mentioned slaughtering heathens and non-christians if it's God's ability? ... God is full of love, yet hates heathens. But Jesus didn't kill the adulterer, but Jesus also followed all the old laws. This is contradictory.
I already covered this beforehand with Ezekiel 25-32 and Isaiah 13-24.

God does not hate heathens, He hates sin. This can be shown through the history of the enslavement of the Jews. The Jews were God's Holy people, set appart. However, they were probbly on of the most sinful people around. God constantly had to punish them to bring them back to Him. He allowed enemy nations to march against them, allowed famine to strike, allowed the Jews to be killed and enslaved. Judging by what God allowed, it wouldn't be that big of a stretch to think God actually hated the Jews more than any other nation on earth. But this is certainly not the case. It is mentioned in many passages throughout the Old Testament that even through these times God always continued loving His people, and that He would return them if only they would abbandon their sinful ways. In the same way, He never punished the heathens for who they were, but what they did. You could argue that His punishment was harsh, but it cant be argued, if you read the Bible, that He always had love in mind. It's like a parent punishing his child... except harsher because there were more people.

And this post took me a long time, and I now have to go. I'll read the rest of the thread later and answer accordingly.
 

AltF4

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The Laws of Leviticus were intended for the Jews, and only them, to follow when they were a nation set apart by God.
That would be wonderful, if only the christian (specifically catholic) church agreed with you. Because they continue to use Leviticus as a rationale for persecuting homosexuals.


God does not hate heathens, He hates sin.
That's not what Leviticus says. God specifically says that he hates the people that do the things on his naughty list. It's at the end.

If I were you, I'd try to argue that Leviticus should be ripped out of the bible and forgotten completely. Because it just makes god look bad.
 

Pluvia's other account

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It seems as though he doesn't exactly know what he's doing, and is trying to shift the blame to other people because of his mistakes.

That's how I see it. I'm not sure how people can live their life from a book.
 

commonyoshi

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That would be wonderful, if only the christian (specifically catholic) church agreed with you. Because they continue to use Leviticus as a rationale for persecuting homosexuals.
America as a nation really has no right to ban gay marriages. I can definitely see why Christians wouldn't want to support gay rights, but that's not something we should be able to sway the government in.

And no, I'm not ripping out Leviticus. ^_^
 

KingJiggyWiggy

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I finally come across a topic like this.

I'm 15, turning 16 in a few months. I was raised in a Christian family, and used to believe in God until a few years ago. If he does exist, then he has failed me, and that's why I don't believe.

When I was little my parents got divorced, and I, being the only child, didn't have anybody to go to. So I prayed. I prayed for them to stay together and to love each other again, and nothing happened. I've never really been a selfish person, so when I used to pray, I usually asked for happines and peace, not for me,-there have been some serious problems in my life, and I won't talk about them now- but for the one's I loved. Nothing happened. Absolutely nothing changed.

What's wrong with answering a boy's prayer? If God is almighty and I ask him for peace for someone else, why not grant it?

Then I ask myself, why is there so much sadness in this world. Why would a loving God would let that happen. Some may say it's our own fault. Then, why did God create us? He wanted us to praise him and love him, but he was already perfect and didn't need us, so why are we here?

He punishes us for breaking his rules, when he gave us free will to do whatever the hell we want to do. Why set the rules then?

I don't believe in God. I believe in me, and what I can achieve because I work for it, instead of praying and hoping for God to give it to me.

Oh, and the church is the most corrupt thing in this world. They blindly guide the masses to their own destruction.

I dont' mean to offend anybody with this post, nor I want someone to offend me by trying to explain all these questions saying that God knows better.
Oh wow your parents divorced big deal, I've been in worse shoes than you. You are not, and never was, a Christian. Quit crying.

To Eor:

We know gravity is here because it is the only thing that pushing us down. And as for the Turin, you cannot actually see the face until a picture is taken of it.

And to clear up the evolution thing, I'm not saying that I don't believe in it (I actually do).

And ZOMG! Commonyoshi you never even mentioned ONCE that Isaiah can 4 stock all of us with Captain Falcon!!!
 

AltF4

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I actually lol'd, KingJiggly. That was like the most insensitive thing that could possibly have been said to the poor kid. Very tolerant indeed.

Also.... do you actually know anything about gravity? Trust me, there a whole world down that rabbit hole. Gravity is not at all what it seems. In fact, it is one of the fundamental problems plaguing physicists: Nobody understands why or how it works. Things fall down... that's about all we actually know.

EDIT: ****it, I said I was done with this thread but I keep coming back. The temptation is too great. And you know how heathens are prone to temptation.
 

Eor

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You can't love someone and constantly kill and enslave them, then punish them to an eternal life of pain and torture. That is not love. It is as I mentioned before, doublethink. You believe both that he loves them, and will condemn them to torture for all eternity. I don't care if you say "No, he love them and hates the sin", it is not the sin that's getting the punishment, it's them.

All you are saying with the Laws of Leviticus is that God made a mistake, or is contradicting. You believed he inspired the bible word for word, therefore he created those laws exactly as he wanted them. And now he says that it's immoral to follow those laws. Unless you believe morality isn't set and constantly changes, either God commanded his people to commit, and he himself cause, genocide, or he is now forbidding his people to stop doing so. Also, arguing that certain parts of the Old Testament are void contradicts your anti-homosexuality stance. And that is picking in choosing, you chose to continue hating homosexuality, but don't care if someone doesn't sacrifice a bull once a month.

Also, it isn't only Leviticus that says it's ok to slaughter or to judge non-christians: "Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah" (Mark 6:11)

"Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them" (2 John 1:10)

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. (Romans 16:17)

Christians are of God; everyone else is wicked (1 John 5:19)

Even besides all of that, there are quotes in the new testament that tell you to not cast aside the Old Testament, which are quotes you don't follow.

"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV). Spoken by Jesus himself

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

"Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB). Also spoken by Jesus

"the scripture cannot be broken.” (John 10:35), also spoken by Jesus

Also, just as a question, when did you start to disagree with homosexuality?

Commonyoshi said:
Exactly. God designed the world with certain rules in tact. Any breaking of these laws would be considered abominations, namely sin. Sin, which is the absence from God, was never part of God's perfect creation. It is judged to be wrong. In the same way, homosexuality was never part of God's creation, but resulted from the fall of man.
You are just preaching here. I don't care what the bible says, I'm asking you why it's immoral. If all you can say is "Because God says so", then you have to believe that it was on a whim, as there is no non-biblical reason to believe it is immoral. Yet you disagree that it has no basis, but to back it up all you did was give me a definition of Sin, which has no bearing on what we're discussing.

Also, something interesting I stumbled on. I'm not going to rephrase it, so I'll just quote it.

Is scripture inspired by God? "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: "But I speak this by permission and not by commandment." 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." 1 Corinthians 7:12 "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord" 2 Corinthians.
 

commonyoshi

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On the flip side, religious people should refrain from attempting to "save" others. It's obnoxious and it sends the wrong message, despite what are often the best of intentions. Most people are, in general, good people, and that includes atheists.
The whole point in saving someone is to keep them from going to hell. It doesn't matter if you are a better person than I am, if you give 90% of your money to charity, I'm still going to try to save you.
And it's not that random Tryptomine. It's like how people from different countries have different traits, such as someone from Siberia has a wider shaped jaw for eating meat. Or everyone in Africa is Black.
It is random. Just because people from such and such country all share the same characteristics doesn't mean mutation isn't random. Mutations, which happen randomly, build on one another. (not that I'm an evolutionist)

How do you know for an absolute fact that everything written in the Bible is a direct result of being inspired by god? Could there not be a single lie in the Bible? Could their not have been a single verse written solely for imposing this "so called will of God" in order to have better control over someone or something?

I recall reading something that (I'm not entirely sure so if I'm wrong please correct me) that as stated in the Bible a wife should love, honor and obey her husband. Say her husband orders her to lick his feet after a hard days work, and the wife does not want to do such an act; in accordance with the bible she is no longer obeying her husband's wishes and as such is a sinner for not doing what he requested.

Erg. I really dont want to go through the history of the Jewish people again. :( I'll make it snappy.
The Jews, of ancient days, all used to memorize most of the Old Testament writings by the time they reached their teens. The best of the best of the best were chosen as scholars, everyone else became regular people. It's highly unlikely, judging by the way the Jews were, that their would be a mistake in the text without anyone noticing.
Too bad nobody ever responded to me.
Quote it for me, please. :)
I dont' mean to offend anybody with this post, nor I want someone to offend me by trying to explain all these questions saying that God knows better.
Oh prick. I was going to do that. >_>
 
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