Religion: what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Huah!

[Zink]

wow, idk if you are a christian but i have read Eor's post and i debated someone much smarter then him...he had to stop posting because everything he had i could counter, of course it was more of a battle over evolution then Christianity. i dont "eor-owned" i may quit because i get bored of the lame attempt at countering mean but i wont let you know im bored so if im saying im quiting the debate you better start posing a better fight.

*shrug* maybe this apparent genious got bored of the massive walls of text. either way, claims on the internets...
besides, not only do you have to prove the Bible extremely accurate, but you also have to prove all other sources UNaccurate.
also I'm interested in your evolution stuff, that wierd analogy with the coins and Texas didn't really mean anything.

 

[KrystalRules]

wait im avoiding the question...i asked you to disprove it...you havent done that!

oh and yes mt. underwater i know, but Everest? talk to any scientist who has studied the top and you'll know the truth about that.

im already discourage because your not open-minded at all which will lead to an argumet not a debate.

that stuff up there is the completely obvious stuff! i know that from common sense! if you cant tell that without resouces then your oblivious to life.

why do you not think God is real?

 

[Zink]

wait im avoiding the question...i asked you to disprove it...you havent done that!

oh and yes mt. underwater i know, but Everest? talk to any scientist who has studied the top and you'll know the truth about that.

im already discourage because your not open-minded at all which will lead to an argumet not a debate.

that stuff up there is the completely obvious stuff! i know that from common sense! if you cant tell that without resouces then your oblivious to life.

why do you not think God is real?

just wanted to point out that the burden of proof is on YOU, actually. plus, not many of us have access to "any scientist who has studied the top" of Everest.

 

[Eor]

You know about archeological findings from common sense?

I'm not going to do your homework for you, if you want to prove the bible is the most accurate book in the world, at least spend time backing it up.

Your entire last post on evolution is wrong and shows that you have no knowledge on the subject.

I don't think God is real because I have no reason to believe in him, especially not him over any other God.

 

[KrystalRules]

You know about archeological findings from common sense?

I'm not going to do your homework for you, if you want to prove the bible is the most accurate book in the world, at least spend time backing it up.

Your entire last post on evolution is wrong and shows that you have no knowledge on the subject.

I don't think God is real because I have no reason to believe in him, especially not him over any other God.

thnx right there. i know he is real. do you believe in darkness?

watch this: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=5349418

and you didnt answer me...prove the Bible isnt true...your not goona be able to...

oh and yeah knowing the have trilobites on top of Everest makes it common sense to believe in the flood metioned in the Bible.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

wait im avoiding the question...i asked you to disprove it...you havent done that!

oh and yes mt. underwater i know, but Everest? talk to any scientist who has studied the top and you'll know the truth about that.

im already discourage because your not open-minded at all which will lead to an argumet not a debate.

that stuff up there is the completely obvious stuff! i know that from common sense! if you cant tell that without resouces then your oblivious to life.

why do you not think God is real?

Because there is not one shred of proof for his existence.

And disproving it is not my worry, I want you to prove it to see how I'm wrong and I'll see when I die, as you said earlier.

And I don't think not following a book with no proof is Un-Open minded. I think it's the complete opposite actually.

And, I can't seem to find any sources that say there are sea fossils on the top of Mount Everest. Could you give me yours just so I could read it?

 

[Zink]

thnx right there. i know he is real. do you believe in darkness?

watch this: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=5349418

and you didnt answer me...prove the Bible isnt true...your not goona be able to...

oh and yeah knowing the have trilobites on top of Everest makes it common sense to believe in the flood metioned in the Bible.

again, burden of proof.

 

[commonyoshi]

Pluvia, you know that it is impossible to prove God or an afterlife. This isn't just an excuse either. Just pretend that there IS a diety for one moment, no question. How can a human ever proove it? It's simply impossible because proof comes from physical evidence. A diety is not physical.

Btw, if you're a Christian, what's your opinion on these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-ip47WYWc

Eorlingas and I had a discussion about this already. You can view it somewhere in the thread. It does go off into tangents, but it's still good.

And the West Wing is boring. >_>

There is a Sumerian tablet called “The Sumerian King List”. The tablet lists the kings of Sumeria and how long they reigned. They reigned for long periods of time until a gap of the same time span that the Bible mentions and then kings with shorter life spans then those above the gap. This parallels with what the Bible said about the flood. Before the flood people lived for great lengths of time and after the flood people lived for shorter lengths of time just like the kings.

It seemed like you were saying that the gap is the period of time when the Flood occured, but this is impossible for obvious reason. It doesn't seem possible for people to inscribe some kings' names into a tablet and for it to survive a worldwide flood where most of the earth's population died off. It's even less likely that it would be found by the same Sumerian people and continued on with their current king list. I highly doubt the earlier kings before the gap were memorized and re-written later because I doubt Noah would care.

If your sources are correct, the gap cant be the Flood. I'm sure you know this, but people's lives didn't just drop to a 120 year limit right away. It started slowly decreasing over a couple of generations.

 

[Tryptomine]

thnx right there. i know he is real.

How?

oh and yeah knowing the have trilobites on top of Everest makes it common sense to believe in the flood metioned in the Bible.

Shame the last of the Trilobites died out over 250 million years ago, then. Especially considering humans are estimated to have come around about 200,000 years ago.

 

[commonyoshi]

You're forgetting that Creationists argue that every species lived together at one point. Using the evolutionary time table, when we dont even believe in it, isn't going to do much. :/

And here's a source that mentions fossils at the top of the Hymalayas. Just ctr+f "fossil". It's even a cite which supports evolution.

 

[KrystalRules]

How?



Shame the last of the Trilobites died out over 250 million years ago, then. Especially considering humans are estimated to have come around about 200,000 years ago.

shame that if this earth was more then 10,000 years old it wouldnt exist...
the shrinks 2 feet every week or so, the earth shinks 2 in every year, and the moon gets farther from the earth a very very small amount every year...so if all that is true(read your science books, it is) this earth would burn up, shrink into nothing, or be flooded and deastroyed by the moons gravity.

wait you mean there was already a discussion on this! why am i doing this then? you wont change your mind...and you didnt watch the vid i posted

 

[Eor]

Edit: God ****it! Stop arguing my points before I have time to respond! Now my post is outdated. Ah well, I'll leave it in case I mentioned something interesting.

thnx right there. i know he is real. do you believe in darkness?

I didn't watch your video right now because I'm doing something else (though I promise I will), so if your darkness question relates to that, then sorry.

I'm going to assume this is a "darkness is nothing you can see or recognize" thing, therefore saying belief in God is like belief in Darkness. Do I believe in darkness? Yes. Darkness is just the word for an absence of light. Do I believe in the absence of light? Yes, I can see with my own eyes when light disappears. It happens every single day around 7 or 8 at night.

and you didnt answer me...prove the Bible isnt true...your not goona be able to...

Evolution proves that we evolved, but apparently that's not true because it contradicts what you already believe (as with everything about the world never being completely submerged by water, or the impossibilty of the tower of babel). But besides that, I have no interest in "disproving the bible". I am against bigotry, that includes bigotry towards Christians. That also includes bigotry against homosexuals, atheists, and other religions. Unfortunately, I think a literal interpretation of the bible leads to some of those things. So I'm not interested in "disproving it", it's not possible to disprove a God.

Instead, I'm going to ask you to do something. Disprove the Eddas. Show me evidence that Tyr and Odin and Thor are not in existence. Show me that Zeus and Persephone and Hermes are not true. Show me that Mercury and Mars are not in the sky above, that Saturn didn't consume his children, that Ahura Mazda is not the creator of the world, that the Avesta is all wrong. Disprove to me the Vedas, that Waheguru is false, that Baosheng Dadi, Guan Yu, Hu Ye, and Cai Shen are not real. Do this, with evidence and logic that doesn't disprove the Bible as well, and you will be very close to converting me

oh and yeah knowing the have trilobites on top of Everest makes it common sense to believe in the flood metioned in the Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain#Geology

Trilobites died out around 25 million years ago, not close to human times

 

[Zink]

shame that if this earth was more then 10,000 years old it wouldnt exist...
the shrinks 2 feet every week or so, the earth shinks 2 in every year, and the moon gets farther from the earth a very very small amount every year...so if all that is true(read your science books, it is) this earth would burn up, shrink into nothing, or be flooded and deastroyed by the moons gravity.

wait you mean there was already a discussion on this! why am i doing this then? you wont change your mind...and you didnt watch the vid i posted

lolwut? Since when is the Earth shrinking? That makes no sense...
PS, Eor, it's Tyre not Try.

 

[Tryptomine]

Pluvia, you know that it is impossible to prove God or an afterlife. This isn't just an excuse either. Just pretend that there IS a diety for one moment, no question. How can a human ever proove it? It's simply impossible because proof comes from physical evidence. A diety is not physical.

Neither is gravity nor magnetism. Besides, some people do view gods as having a physical presence. However, either way it is inconsequential; you're right that we have no way of conclusivly disproving the existance of a 'higher power' in whatever form, and probably will never be able to. To me, it comes down to statistics, I don't deny the possiblity of a higher power, I merely think it to be very unlikely. Though the possibility of there being a "God" exactly as described by Christianity (or any religion), that would be able to "prove" that a religion is correct is so astronomically small that it'd probably be a couple hundred googolplexes more likely for me to win every lottery in the world on the same day using the same set of numbers.

And here's a source that mentions fossils at the top of the Hymalayas. Just ctr+f "fossil". It's even a cite which supports evolution.

'K, I honestly don't care if they were found there or not. Even if they were, that just shows that the earth is geologically active.

And if you take the Bible so literally as to beleive the earth is 10,000 years old, then you have bigger issues to tackle before attempting to argue things such as this.

Krystal you still didn't answer my main question, "How?"

 

[Zink]

Neither is gravity nor magnetism. Besides, some people do view gods as having a physical presence. However, either way it is inconsequential; you're right that we have no way of conclusivly disproving the existance of a 'higher power' in whatever form, and probably will never be able to. To me, it comes down to statistics, I don't deny the possiblity of a higher power, I merely think it to be very unlikely. Though the possibility of there being a "God" exactly as described by Christianity (or any religion), that would be able to "prove" that a religion is correct is so astronomically small that it'd probably be a couple hundred googolplexes more likely for me to win every lottery in the world on the same day using the same set of numbers.



'K, I honestly don't care if they were found there or not. Even if they were, that just shows that the earth is geologically active.

And if you take the Bible so literally as to beleive the earth is 10,000 years old, then you have bigger issues to tackle before attempting to argue things such as this.

Krystal you still didn't answer my main question, "How?"

Correction. For all focres, including gravity, there exists a particle which "carries" the force and acts as a medium for it between any two or more objects the force is affecting. Sorry, it's hard to explain and I don't personally have a clear picture of it, but...

 

[Eor]

lolwut? Since when is the Earth shrinking? That makes no sense...
PS, Eor, it's Tyre not Try.

Typo, meant to be Tyr. Never seen it spelled Tyre before, though with the different translations I guess it's possible.

 

[Tryptomine]

Correction. For all focres, including gravity, there exists a particle which "carries" the force and acts as a medium for it between any two or more objects the force is affecting. Sorry, it's hard to explain and I don't personally have a clear picture of it, but...

Not entirely sure what you are attempting to say there, either. Point is, gravity isn't something we can observe directly but rather only see the effects it has on physical objects, which would probably be the same for any non-physical being.

 

[KrystalRules]

well Bible was written over a span of thousands of years and all those were written maybe over 50...all the Bible stays consistent with itself over a couple thousands years and those others struggle to stay consistent. why do you think Christians are persecuted?
why is christianity growing in every country except USA.
the Bible says everyone will here about God by the time Jesus comes back the second time and almost everyone has heard of him( of course the people who have not are a significant # yes but not really significant compared to the population of the world)
why are the Jews going back to jerusalem for no reason?
the Bible says they will go back before Jesus comes back
how come the middle east is trying to make a peace treaty between Isael and the rest of the world?
the Bible says that peace will come to Isael and her enemies.
how come China is bringing a giant army forth?
the Bible says that a HUGE army will rise before Jesus comes back
how come all of Europe is trying to go one currency and then is also talking about trying to get a global currency?
the Bible says the world will have one currency when Jesus comes back
how come when America was based off Godly principles it was prospering with absolute abundance, and now that our morals are lost or are being lost are nation is falling apart?
Discovery channel a few years back did a special on heaven and hell. they would spin people around in a machine until their heart stopped beating while they were dead the doctors would wait and then bring them back to life. when they would wake they would sometimes come out screaming "dont make me go back there", the docs would ask where and the people would say hell. yet some people would come back happy. they were all christians, they would try to explain heaven but they were dumbfounded.

 

[commonyoshi]

Though the possibility of there being a "God" exactly as described by Christianity (or any religion), that would be able to "prove" that a religion is correct is so astronomically small that it'd probably be a couple hundred googolplexes more likely for me to win every lottery in the world on the same day using the same set of numbers.

I'm confused by your statement (mainly the wording) and what those numbers are supposed to represent.

There's no way to proove a religion, but you can put reasonable evidence for it. A good example of something supernatural to back up Christianity would be prophecies. There are hundreds of prophecies written in the Bible, and not a single one has failed. These aren't vague, Bible code-like, prophecies either. Most of them have to do with raise and falls of nations.

'K, I honestly don't care if they were found there or not. Even if they were, that just shows that the earth is geologically active.

Pluvia didn't believe it or something to that effect. It was for him.

 

[KrystalRules]

I'm confused by your statement (mainly the wording) and what those numbers are supposed to represent.

There's no way to proove a religion, but you can put reasonable evidence for it. A good example of something supernatural to back up Christianity would be prophecies. There are hundreds of prophecies written in the Bible, and not a single one has failed. These aren't vague, Bible code-like, prophecies either. Most of them have to do with raise and falls of nations.

Pluvia didn't believe it or something to that effect. It was for him.

are you christian? atheist? what?

 

[commonyoshi]

I am a Christian.
Edit: Currently watching the video Krystal posted. I feel bad for the guy. No one is laughing at his jokes when some of them are actually funny. Lousy Christian-filled audience. If I had been there I'd have been loling.

 

[KrystalRules]

I am a Christian.

every post you confused me! lol i thought i was alone in this.
you know more of the transcendentalism side then i do

 

[AltF4]

Omg, I watched a good portion of that video. The myspace one.

It had just about every kind of argument fallacy you can think of. I mean... I can't believe he's taken seriously. Or maybe he's not, and that's why he's in a big room of fellow christians.

It's really long. I'm not going to try to dissect his arguments one by one. But if you have anything in particular. I mean the whole thing was a farce!

The guy was claiming that "nobody's seen a star form" therefore it is not science, but a religion to believe in it, thus it should not be taught in schools. Star formation is not a science?! Neither is element formation according to this guy!

He tries to assert that everything that science cannot completely explain yet is "not science" and should not be taught in schools.

Is anyone here actually taking him seriously?

 

[KrystalRules]

I am a Christian.
Edit: Currently watching the video Krystal posted. I feel bad for the guy. No one is laughing at his jokes when some of them are actually funny. Lousy Christian-filled audience. If I had been there I'd have been loling.

i was cracking up at some of his jokes lol
and he is right. now dont get me wrong they are still "ologys" if you get what i mean. they are still the study of something but it really isnt science. he did tell you the definition of science

 

[Eor]

I clicked the video, heard him say his name, and turned it off.

Kent Hovind is a joke, most creationalists who actually bother to research their position hate him for the same reason Zink is annoyed at KrystalRules (Zink is also Christian). To see an actual basis for any of his claims, check out http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/

 

[AltF4]

Haha! That guy has a fake degree! Hahah! He calls himself a doctor! Lol!!

I knew he was full of it, but I had no idea the extent of it all. Wow.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Hovind is currently serving a ten-year term in Federal Correctional Institution, Edgefield in Edgefield, South Carolina, for 58 tax offenses, obstructing federal agents and related charges.

*tuts*

 

[AltF4]

Wow, thanks for that, Krystal. I haven't had a good laugh in a while. That was good.

 

[4 Aces]

Now who is this guy? Is he on smashboards...etc, etc?
Anyway, to be on topic, I don't really know what I believe in. I make up my own theories and sometimes think about other religions. I don't think religion is bad. It did make wars and such, but religion is somewhat effective in keeping people in line. Ex: God says not to steal, and if you really believe in God, then you wouldn't steal. I don't think it's weak-minded to have a religion. You're having faith in something that you can't see (can you see it? idk), and in something that people may discourage you from. But you continue to believe.

 

[ledhead]

I hate when people try to prove good/possible points with absolutely no logic in their arguments. I think that's one of the reasons some atheists are very firm in their belief, because they never spoke to anyone who actually knew what they were talking about.

 

[AltF4]

Well if you "know what you're talking about" then enlighten me.

 

[Gamer4Fire]

oh and i also believe what i do because of the overwelming evidence of the Bible's authenticity. and hardly no evidence against it(all the evidence against it is like statistics)[...]

[...]and the chances of evolution of happening is the equivalent to the whole state of texas being filled 2 feet high with silver coins and you drop a gold coin anywhere in those coins, and a blind guy walks around texas and the coin he picks up is the gold one. the chances of that happening are the same as one species evolving.

HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

If you don't get it, reread it.

well Bible was written over a span of thousands of years and all those were written maybe over 50...all the Bible stays consistent with itself over a couple thousands years and those others struggle to stay consistent.

Ahem, ahem...

Genesis 1:25-27 God creates all the animals on the earth then creates Adam and Eve.
Genesis 2:18-19 God creates Adam and creates Eve to help him. Then he creates all the animals of the earth and Adam names them.

Genesis 1:16-19 And he creates the stars and places them in the firmament on the forth day.
Job 38:4-8 God creates the stars on the second day.

Luke 2:1-7 Mary and Joseph lived in Nazareth and traveled to Bethlehem for the Roman Census.
Mathew 2:1-23 Mary and Joesph lived in Bethlehem and fled to Egypt.

Mathew 27:47 And Jesus said, "My god my god, why hast thou forsaken me," and he dies.
Luke 23:46 And Jesus said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit," and he dies.
John 19:30 And Jesus said, "It is finished," and he dies.

Mathew 27:57-60, Mark 15:43-36, Luke 23:50-53 Joseph of Arimathaea wraps Jesus body in Linen and place him in his tomb.
John 19:38-42 Joseph of Arimataea and Nicodemus take Jesus' body and place it in the tomb.
Acts 13:27-29 The local rulers place Jesus in his tomb.

Matthew 28:1-9 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother are the first to see Jesus after the resurrection.
Mark 16:9, John 20:11-14 Mary Magdalene is the first to see Jesus after the resurrection.
Luke 24:13-31 Cleopus and friend are the first to see Jesus after the resurrection.
1 Corinthians 15:4-5 Cephus was the first to see Jesus after the resurrection.

Although I will admit that the bible holds some historical data, but only because it was written in that time frame. If I wrote a fictional book and have it occur in modern day New York, then a thousand years from now, my book would have historical information too.

 

[Aesir]

Let's not forget a flood that was suppose to drown the land in water.

This happened during times where other civilizations were flourishing. >_>

 

[AltF4]

The flood was also supposed to kill every animal on Earth...

Did god really think he'd kill fish with a flood?

 

[THISISYOURPILOTSPEAKING]

The flood was also supposed to kill every animal on Earth...

Did god really think he'd kill fish with a flood?

What if they drown?

 

[KrystalRules]

HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

If you don't get it, reread it.



Ahem, ahem...

Genesis 1:25-27 God creates all the animals on the earth then creates Adam and Eve.
Genesis 2:18-19 God creates Adam and creates Eve to help him. Then he creates all the animals of the earth and Adam names them.
i dont what version of the Bible your reading but NIV say God brought the animals for him to name...(your reading the paraphrased version the message, right?)

Genesis 1:16-19 And he creates the stars and places them in the firmament on the forth day.
Job 38:4-8 God creates the stars on the second day.
Job 38:4-8 4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-

7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels [a] shouted for joy?

8 "Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,


Luke 2:1-7 Mary and Joseph lived in Nazareth and traveled to Bethlehem for the Roman Census.
Mathew 2:1-23 Mary and Joesph lived in Bethlehem and fled to Egypt.

Matthew 2:13-18 13When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. "Get up," he said, "take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him." 14So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."[f]
16When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. 17Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:
18"A voice is heard in Ramah,
weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more."


Mathew 27:47 And Jesus said, "My god my god, why hast thou forsaken me," and he dies.
Matthew 27:45-50 45From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[a] lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
47When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah."

48Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him."

50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

it doesnt say what he said when he died


Luke 23:46 And Jesus said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit," and he dies.
John 19:30 And Jesus said, "It is finished," and he dies.

im gonna attempt to put these together in the order they happened.

45From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[a] lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
47When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah."

48Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him."
50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.= John 19:30 30When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
then...

luke 23:46 46Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
that is the order it happened in it does say he died 'til Luke 23:46


Mathew 27:57-60, Mark 15:43-36, Luke 23:50-53 Joseph of Arimathaea wraps Jesus body in Linen and place him in his tomb.
John 19:38-42 Joseph of Arimataea and Nicodemus take Jesus' body and place it in the tomb.
Acts 13:27-29 The local rulers place Jesus in his tomb.
john says 38Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews. With Pilate's permission, he came and took the body away.
and to keep from disapointing the people he told them he did it.

Acts's author was unknown but thought to be Paul. Paul would have heard only what Pilot would have told the people.

Matthew 28:1-9 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother are the first to see Jesus after the resurrection.
Mark 16:9, John 20:11-14 Mary Magdalene is the first to see Jesus after the resurrection.
Luke 24:13-31 Cleopus and friend are the first to see Jesus after the resurrection.

this happened after the two marys saw Jesus.
Luke 24:19-24 19"What things?" he asked.

"About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see."

1 Corinthians 15:4-5 Cephus was the first to see Jesus after the resurrection.

it never said Cephus(AKA: Peter, your reading the wrong version because it should say Peter because his name was changed) was the first person to see him, it just says he shown himself to him, then the twelve...

Although I will admit that the bible holds some historical data, but only because it was written in that time frame. If I wrote a fictional book and have it occur in modern day New York, then a thousand years from now, my book would have historical information too.

yet that book you wrote would still only be written by one person in a short time frame. yes it have historical data, but only from a short time span unlike the Bible. and the fact that Bible stayed accurate with it self over long period of time and through different peoples writings.

 

[S2]

I clicked the video, heard him say his name, and turned it off.

Kent Hovind is a joke, most creationalists who actually bother to research their position hate him for the same reason Zink is annoyed at KrystalRules (Zink is also Christian). To see an actual basis for any of his claims, check out http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/

Intelligent Christian scholars are always running into this problem. Christian's who do research and practice apologetics (thoughtful arguing) will give you a lot of good arguments and proof to back up what the Bible teaches.

But there are more than enough "Christian Leaders" who really don't know what they are saying.

As a Christian, it frustrates me to see certain Christian leaders essentially setting themselves up to get mocked. Not because their intentions are bad, but because they aren't watching what comes out of their mouth.


Another problem is that in the current state of America, many people are only attracted to the emotional side of spiritualism. I had a Mormon friend and his church essentially worked like this, they told people to "Listen to your heart" and such. And I'll agree, as a religious person I think listening to the spiritual warfare going around you is important. But so is apologetics and logic.

Non-religious people tend to seek religion because of the emotional aspect of spiritualism.
But at the same time, they are the biggest critics of "logical fallicies".

If someone is going to be teaching the Bible (when I say teaching I don't mean witnessing to others, I mean actual teaching) they need to be intelligently versed in what it says. More than just the stories and basic principles, but the actual apologetics of it.

I'm sure other Christians will disagree by saying an unintelligent Christian leader is still saving people just by teaching. That might be true. But how many people is he turning away not because they don't want to hear the message, but because of logical fallicies?

 

[KrystalRules]

QUOTE=Aesir;3464086]Let's not forget a flood that was suppose to drown the land in water.

This happened during times where other civilizations were flourishing. >_>[/QUOTE]
well every ancient civilization's history dates back to 2400 years ago, respectively.

and every ancient civilization and tribe has a story of a worldwide flood and one man and his family surviving it.

The flood was also supposed to kill every animal on Earth...]

Did god really think he'd kill fish with a flood?

Read this: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/444.asp

 

[Aesir]

well every ancient civilization's history dates back to 2400 years ago, respectively.

and every ancient civilization and tribe has a story of a worldwide flood and one man and his family surviving it.

Evidence? cause I can tell you that isn't true LOL.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I highly doubt thats true.

 

[Gamer4Fire]

The Chinese who have a written history older than even the bible didn't exist eight thousand years ago... riiiight.