Religion Thread: Is there a God or Not?

[Phantom7]

In the Debate Hall, there is a thread that inquires the purpose of religion and if a God is "needed".

Since only certain members are allowed to debate in the Debate Hall, I think the Pool Room deserves a similar, but open-ended, discussion on particular religious views.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss your religious views and provide logical evidence about why you believe what you believe. It is not a heated argument, but simply a friendly discussion, in which we can share our perceptions of life, what kinds of life exists, and how it came to be. Because in the end, I feel that it's important to have a firm, solid idea of our existence.

If you are not religious, feel free to discuss your views as well.

Though I am open to hear all religious views of any members here, the big question here is: Is there a God or not?

Shall we discuss?

(From my personal perspective, I follow the Methodist Christian faith. I believe in God and that Jesus Christ is His earthy form, but I don't think the way in which the general public views Christianity is completely accurate.)

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I think only a mod has the authority to make a religion thread because it's such a sensitive subject. If this thread does survive the first wave of mod attacks I hope that it doesn't get closed due to people flaming each other because they can't handle someone different than themselves.

On subject I think that there is a God and that he watches over us and cares for us. but those are only my own views.

 

[Phantom7]

I think only a mod has the authority to make a religion thread because it's such a sensitive subject. If this thread does survive the first wave of mod attacks I hope that it doesn't get closed due to people flaming each other because they can't handle someone different than themselves.

On subject I think that there is a God and that he watches over us and cares for us. but those are only my own views.

Hopefully not. I know it's a sensitive subject, so that's why I called it a "friendly discussion" instead of a heated argument. If a Mod were to create the thread, though, I don't see how the amount of flaming between arguments would differentiate. I felt like this thread was needed, though. Religion is an important discussion.

On subject: I don't think God is what most people perceive Him to be. I believe that He never began, nor ends, and is infinitely greater than all living beings. I see him more as an ultimate origin rather than a god. Technically, He's not a god at all, because by definition, a god is a male deity superior to mankind by a limited extent, and the Christian God and Jewish Yahweh don't exactly fit that description. God is of no actual gender and is infinite times greater than humans.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Hopefully not. I know it's a sensitive subject, so that's why I called it a "friendly discussion" instead of a heated argument. If a Mod were to create the thread, though, I don't see how the amount of flaming between arguments would differentiate. I felt like this thread was needed, though. Religion is an important discussion.

On subject: I don't think God is what most people perceive Him to be. I believe that He never began, nor ends, and is infinitely greater than all living beings. I see him more as an ultimate origin rather than a god. Technically, He's not a god at all, because by definition, a god is a male deity superior to mankind, and the Christian God and Jewish Yahweh don't exactly fit that description. God is of no actual gender and is infinite times greater than humans.

That belief is very common actually. In fact I would go as far as to say as the majority of Christians/Muslims/Jewish people believe that.

 

[Phantom7]

That belief is very common actually. In fact I would go as far as to say as the majority of Christians/Muslims/Jewish people believe that.

The main difference, though, is that people imagine Heaven as a world in the clouds, and I think it is utterly unexplainable, and the Biblical descriptions are only there to illustrate how great is compared to earth. And the same for Hell, that it is a pit of flames, when I believe it is really simply our lives ceasing to exist, or infinite, indescribable torment. I think it's most likely our lives ceasing to exist, though. I also have very specific beliefs towards Angels, Satan, etc. that are too in-depth too explain right now.

The Muslim god, Allah, is actually a totally different god, though. He was a moon god and one of 360 gods, before Muslims worshiped him as one god.

 

[xxFrohawkxx]

Well I am a Christan (non demonmational) I belive my God had created all and is all when there was nothing he created this world. Since we are all classifed as sinners ( We have all lied or stole you know)
I am to belive that God has sent his son down to this world to live a sinless life we were supposed to have
( Even though he went through temptaion) and died on the Cross (which was used as punishment for sinners) and we are all washed in his blood to purify ourselves for God when we die and go to heaven.
So basically I have to belive Jesus died on this cross for my and everyones sin, and live to repay him, to Love him as he has show us Love, so I basically have ot live to love.

There is alot more but really i beleave tht there is a God

I also want to note im trying not to shove this down you guys throats, I hope this doesn't turn into a flame war.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I think clouds and flames were the only way to describe it back then. I think that the prophets who saw these things couldn't explain it, and had to relate it to something that hits close to home.

 

[Mota]

Most religion threads don't end well.

As for the question of: Is there a God or Not?
It isn't possible to prove or disprove the existence of God.

Personally I don't believe in any of the religions mankind has come up with, but I feel there definitely has to be some 'infinite divine power'.

 

[xxFrohawkxx]

Well i hope this one dosent end, or in a bad way anyways.

I find it interesting to talk about religion, or not having one for that matter. ( It kinda shows what enviorment we are exposed to as well.)

 

[Moozle]

I believe what Hindus believe (even though I'm not Hindu). All of the "gods" in the world are really the same thing, the same energy. They are just like different masks put on the same thing to help different kinds of people relate and understand what the superior energy really is.

 

[xLeafybug =D]

I don't care if god exists or not, it doesn't affect my life in any way. I don't doubt the existence of god, but I don't accept it. My sister called it a "pseudo-Buddhist BS belief system." i lol'd.

 

[Dru2]

Wow, i'm surprised this thread is staying friendly.

Anyway, as for my belief, i am a Christian. And i believe every word of what the Bible says. I believe there is a heaven and hell. I believe God wants everyone to go to Heaven, but not everyone will go to heaven though, sadly. I also believe Jesus Christ died for our sins and rose from the grave and is now back in Heaven.
These are my thoughts. Hope this stays friendly!

 

[Jakomayne]

I don't care if god exists or not, it doesn't affect my life in any way. I don't doubt the existence of god, but I don't accept it. My sister called it a "pseudo-Buddhist BS belief system." i lol'd.

I'm pretty much the same, if it did or doesn't exist...it has no effect on me at all. I just live my life and chill.

Believe its called "Apatheism", don't quote me on that though. >_>

 

[Wuss]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss your religious views and provide logical evidence about why you believe what you believe. It is not a heated argument, but simply a friendly discussion, in which we can share our perceptions of life, what kinds of life exists, and how it came to be. Because in the end, I feel that it's important to have a firm, solid idea of our existence.

I feel like this is kind of a paradox. Part of the point of God (at least in my opinion) is that he/she (whatever the **** you want) isn't logical, and is completely separate from that realm of thinking. I would say that if someone made a logical argument for the existence God, there would be fewer atheist (see DesCartes' meditation where he "proves" the existence of God, lol).

Also, about the existence of God: I don't think there is such a being, and even there was such a being, why would it care about us? My thinking is that if a "perfect," transcendental being existed, we would be less than the ants that we care so little for. (if you want to try argue against this point, don't take the ant thing too seriously). So essentially, I'm saying that even if God exists, it's probably irrelevant.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Inb4 RDK Atheism rant.

I, personally, am an Agnostic. I have a belief that there is a God, but he is the Universe and everything that exists. I also believe that he is very benevolent.

Then again, sometimes I wonder if there is a God or not. I've seen innumerable posts and articles about how there is no God, with prove proving against him and whatever have you. However, I still believe in him. One of the main reasons I believe is because it's simply comforting to think that there is one, benevolent and omnipotent being, for some reason.

 

[jugfingers]

“There is nothing under the canopy of heaven greater than the tip of a bird's down in autumn, while the T'ai Mountain is small. Neither is there any longer life than that of a child cut off in infancy, while P'eng Tsu himself died young. The universe and I came into being together; I and everything therein are One.”

 

[Luigitoilet]

I feel like this is kind of a paradox. Part of the point of God (at least in my opinion) is that he/she (whatever the **** you want) isn't logical, and is completely separate from that realm of thinking. I would say that if someone made a logical argument for the existence God, there would be fewer atheist (see DesCartes' meditation where he "proves" the existence of God, lol).

There's a word for this you know. It's "faith"

Personally, I find it impossible to believe in a deity. I feel nihilistic about many things but I'm not a nihilist. I think that ruminating about some completely hypothetical "God" scenario isn't an ideal way to go about finding "meaning" in your life. I'm fine with the many people who feel differently. My main problem with religion stem from the many human atrocities committed in its name.

 

[xxFrohawkxx]

There's a word for this you know. It's "faith"

Personally, I find it impossible to believe in a deity. I feel nihilistic about many things but I'm not a nihilist. I think that ruminating about some completely hypothetical "God" scenario isn't an ideal way to go about finding "meaning" in your life. I'm fine with the many people who feel differently. My main problem with religion stem from the many human atrocities committed in its name.

In my opinion I find that religion is not a way to find the "meaning of life" which is noting more than reproduce, make babies, and make them good memebers of society. I feel no negitve feeling towards someone who thinks diffently. To me religoin is about faith,Love of yourself, Love for you neighbors , and love for god. My main...how can i put this... its not really a problem..its more of a unaswered question of people without a religion is that people that belive that something cannot be made of nothing( god for that matter)
And im talking about the big bang therory because then what created the "something" that transfromed this "nothing" universe to what we see today?

Granted im only 14 and dont know much about this world.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

I feel like this is kind of a paradox. Part of the point of God (at least in my opinion) is that he/she (whatever the **** you want) isn't logical, and is completely separate from that realm of thinking. I would say that if someone made a logical argument for the existence God, there would be fewer atheist (see DesCartes' meditation where he "proves" the existence of God, lol).

Also, about the existence of God: I don't think there is such a being, and even there was such a being, why would it care about us? My thinking is that if a "perfect," transcendental being existed, we would be less than the ants that we care so little for. (if you want to try argue against this point, don't take the ant thing too seriously). So essentially, I'm saying that even if God exists, it's probably irrelevant.

Well if He is the one that created the universe and/or is using it to write a story. It'd be well, important to Him and since He is, in fact, perfect every detail must be just so. So one could assume if everything so far said is correct that He would care deeply for everyone and everything.

As far as a level of being, the ants thing does in fact apply, or more accuratly a potter and his pottery. Or an artist and a canvas.

In the Bible it does in fact state that God created the universe. Also it's kinda interesting how history contains His and Story in it. That's possibly where the word came from.


My belief is the Bible is God's one and only word. That he created everything and watches it very closely and even now plays an active part in it and can due to his implied omnipotence.

That His Son, God the Son, came down and took on the body of a human, lived just like one of us except without any fault and then died for everyone that did, do and will yet believe in Him. He now resides in Heaven making a place for all that are His.

Heaven being clouds is more or less something people have come up with. Same thing Hell.
They do exist, but neither as we think of them.

 

[Phantom7]

I feel like this is kind of a paradox. Part of the point of God (at least in my opinion) is that he/she (whatever the **** you want) isn't logical, and is completely separate from that realm of thinking. I would say that if someone made a logical argument for the existence God, there would be fewer atheist (see DesCartes' meditation where he "proves" the existence of God, lol).

Also, about the existence of God: I don't think there is such a being, and even there was such a being, why would it care about us? My thinking is that if a "perfect," transcendental being existed, we would be less than the ants that we care so little for. (if you want to try argue against this point, don't take the ant thing too seriously). So essentially, I'm saying that even if God exists, it's probably irrelevant.

This is pretty lengthy, but to answer your question:

It is difficult to contemplate on, but there is logical reasoning to back up belief in God.

I believe that God is one of the many names of the divine being who created the universe. He possesses no beginning and no end, and is infinitely beyond human comprehension and everything regarding humankind. Without such a being, the universe could not have existed. Without a God, I tend to view the universe as a painting without an artist, or an invention without an inventor.

You see, I believe that everything in existence that begins originated from something. Otherwise, what reasoning could you use to explain its existence? So for the universe to make sense, there must be an infinitely superior being, who has always been there to control it.

On a more specific note, one of the numerous mysteries of the universe is the explanation of life itself. Why do we exist and how did we come to be? These are questions we may never answer, but without some divine presence, how can you explain why we are actually living? Our bodies function, but the question is: why are we alive instead of like machines? We, as humans, have managed to build automobiles and computers, which possess components that cause it to work, but it has no control. We do have control, though, which makes me wonder, from where was that control originated and how it was implemented in our bodies? I have theorized that this is what believers refer to as the "soul", the actual living part of us, while our bodies are actually like machines that eventually lose their strength and die.

But why would God care about us? One word: Grace -- the act of giving what is undeserved. The purpose of our creation, theoretically, was that some type of imperfection must exist in the universe to make it complete and to give God meaning. Without imperfection, perfection is absolutely meaningless. They are like two sides of the same coin, so to speak. Though we are imperfect and infinitely below God, he walked the earth in human flesh, as one of us, and suffered the punishment we deserve. That punishment is suffering and death. We believe Jesus Christ was God, though, because it was recorded that he never sinned against God's will. By comparing Christ to his followers and the people who lived during that time period, you will realize how innocent and perfect he actually was. According to the recordings, he never contradicted what was believed to be God's will, in actions and words. But it also requires faith to actually believe that Christ was God in human flesh.

Though you didn't mention it, I'm also going to briefly explain one of the most crucial elements of the Christian faith: Salvation. This is the best way I can think of to explain it. There was a moment not too long ago, in which it occurred to me that if I was actually in the presence of Christ dying on the cross, I would have been passionately begging for forgiveness, wondering how I could ever betray Him again. Unfortunately, it is human nature to sin, so once we have repented and realized the undeserved pain Christ, our God, endured, God forgives us, through grace.

Very few people have yet to come up with a reasonable explanation for God's existence, particularly because of faith. However, I believe most of faith comes from searching for explanations and explaining to yourself what it all means. Though what is interesting about that is that it cannot be done without first questioning your faith.

 

[Luigitoilet]

In my opinion I find that religion is not a way to find the "meaning of life" which is noting more than reproduce, make babies, and make them good memebers of society. I feel no negitve feeling towards someone who thinks diffently. To me religoin is about faith,Love of yourself, Love for you neighbors , and love for god. My main...how can i put this... its not really a problem..its more of a unaswered question of people without a religion is that people that belive that something cannot be made of nothing( god for that matter)
And im talking about the big bang therory because then what created the "something" that transfromed this "nothing" universe to what we see today?

Granted im only 14 and dont know much about this world.

We don't really have the technology to recreate/observe the massive amounts of heat that was in the universe at its birth yet. In many ways, Big Bang is just as much a guess about the origin of the universe as any religion is. It just happens to be the belief that is most backed by scientific scrutiny.

 

[xxFrohawkxx]

We don't really have the technology to recreate/observe the massive amounts of heat that was in the universe at its birth yet. In many ways, Big Bang is just as much a guess about the origin of the universe as any religion is. It just happens to be the belief that is most backed by scientific scrutiny.

0_0 Actaually I had a feeling that this was going to be the reply I was going to recieve.
I find it to be at this point we just change the subject becuase we can talk for days about this: The scientic scrutiny, religious review, non-biased opionons, it basically almost as pointless as round ball really.
So what do you have on your mind?

 

[Phantom7]

We don't really have the technology to recreate/observe the massive amounts of heat that was in the universe at its birth yet. In many ways, Big Bang is just as much a guess about the origin of the universe as any religion is. It just happens to be the belief that is most backed by scientific scrutiny.

I believe the Big Bang Theory is pretty accurate, but it is part of God's controlled creation. It is nearly impossible to accurately explain how the very first particle was formed without including an infinitely-present divine being of some sort.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I'm probably only going to answer whether or not I believe in God. I do. I also do believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that he died for us. That's all I truly believe in the Christian faith. Everything else, such as giving up something for Lent (which has started recently), holy day of obligations, etc. I'm just fine with believing God exists and going to Sunday Mass. That's it.

EDIT: I just remembered a line from Angels and Demons which I just saw recently. Professor Langdon (Tom Hanks) was just asked if he believed in God. He answered: "My mind tells me that God is something that cannot be explained. My heart tells me it is something that should not be understood." or something like that.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I don't care if god exists or not, it doesn't affect my life in any way. I don't doubt the existence of god, but I don't accept it. My sister called it a "pseudo-Buddhist BS belief system." i lol'd.

same for me.. except for the sister part soo -crosses out-

 

[victra♥]

"I'm this guy standing on a planet
Really I'm just a speck
Compared with a star, the planet is just another speck
To think about all of this
To think about the vast emptiness of space
There's billions and billions of stars
Billions and billions of specks"
it's a cute quote from Bill Nye.

I can't really look up into the night sky and see the brilliance of the universe and still believe there's a deity looking after us as a species. I don't think its very modest to think otherwise.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'm Christian, and I believe in a God.

Before I was Christian...well I was too young so I don't think 4 yr. olds thought about that stuff much.

-Terywj

 

[GreenKirby]

You guys KNOW that this topic won't end well. Why do you keep touching the hot oven?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Because we're a bunch of optimistic fellows.

-Terywj

 

[Pluvia]

Yeah its pretty clear this wont end well. There's so much logical points i was about to put across but decided not to.

 

[Fuelbi]

I am a Catholic. I should be borderline athiest though, due to all my other beliefs that deviate from traditional Catholic. And I mean: the belief of existance of extraterrestial life, the fact that italians messed up the original bible, etc. etc. etc.

So basically, I am a pretty bad Catholic here. Another thing I don't get. If god hears your prayers, does he have the power to listen in on about a billion people's prayers at once or something? I don't know, but I am seriously starting to doubt my religion.

Also fun fact: Jesus is actually Arabic. Doesnt that mean he should LOOK Arabic instead of the view that we think he's white?

Another thing I DO believe without a doubt is the existence of some sort of karma system. I mean seriously, whenever I mess up really bad I usually end up having a horrible week.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I am a Catholic. I should be borderline athiest though, due to all my other beliefs that deviate from traditional Catholic. And I mean: the belief of existance of extraterrestial life, the fact that italians messed up the original bible, etc. etc. etc.

So basically, I am a pretty bad Catholic here. Another thing I don't get. If god hears your prayers, does he have the power to listen in on about a billion people's prayers at once or something? I don't know, but I am seriously starting to doubt my religion.

Also fun fact: Jesus is actually Arabic. Doesnt that mean he should LOOK Arabic instead of the view that we think he's white?

Another thing I DO believe without a doubt is the existence of some sort of karma system. I mean seriously, whenever I mess up really bad I usually end up having a horrible week.

God is all powerful, so of course he'd be able to hear everyone at once (hypothetically)

Yes. Jesus has been whitewashed. The white, fair-haired Jesus that has become the mainstream image is a lie.

 

[Fuelbi]

But if he could hear everybody pray at once, how would he be able to differentiate from each prayer. The fact that he also has to give people what they want (well depending on what they ask of course) I don't see how he has the power to do that all at once

 

[xxFrohawkxx]

I am a Catholic. I should be borderline athiest though, due to all my other beliefs that deviate from traditional Catholic. And I mean: the belief of existance of extraterrestial life, the fact that italians messed up the original bible, etc. etc. etc.

So basically, I am a pretty bad Catholic here. Another thing I don't get. If god hears your prayers, does he have the power to listen in on about a billion people's prayers at once or something? I don't know, but I am seriously starting to doubt my religion.

Also fun fact: Jesus is actually Arabic. Doesnt that mean he should LOOK Arabic instead of the view that we think he's white?

Another thing I DO believe without a doubt is the existence of some sort of karma system. I mean seriously, whenever I mess up really bad I usually end up having a horrible week.

Well I beliave that if there was a "karma systeam" then why do criminals win off in the end and good people die from these wrong do-ers. I am not self-rightoughs ,but the fact you belaive that there something beyound this world "extraterrestails" should not distort you views on your realgion. God has made a big universe we dont know what he has created. =D

As for the pray thing He does have the power to listen to about a bilgiolion people at once, but when you really think about it god doesnt live in Time or Even a place he basically is Entetral so he could answer prays one at a time.

Lol your "fun fact" seems more like fun opionion. I think people who picture jesues as white,black,hispanic or anyother race other than Arabic do it because "wouldn't your favorite super hero be your color" well im Black/hispanic and really and see where you comming from.

Maybe being Chathlic isn't the best thing...you could always be a Non denminational Christan
(which means plain Christan: no cummion, and any other "Have to do this in order to get to heaven!" jazz)
you wont have to do the cummion stuff. All you would have to do is beleave jesus died on the cross for your sins and live to love God (real simple shiz). *Finishes his religious pitch*

 

[StinkomanFan]

God a real entity, the facts toward this are too many, and the facts against it are in no comparison. The ideas and factuals may very but their is indeed a greater being controlling the universe and using us as pieces in a never ending game of monoply. Whom he (or she or it) is another story in itself. If their is no God than how can creatures exist? I heavily doubt that we (as in every living being) appeared without someone or something putting us here.

 

[IAmBlu3]

I consider myself an apatheist. I do believe though . I usually question existence and all that jazz, but end up going around in circles, disproving and proving my own beliefs. It gives me headaches so i just try not to think about it. There's no sure fire answer so, to me, there's no point in thinking about it. But every now and then, I do get in situations that seem too unlikely to be true and just look up at the sky and say "are you ****ing with me?" lol. Meh. If you believe, cool. If you don't cool. Hopefully this stays friendly .

 

[Pluvia]

God a real entity, the facts toward this are too many, and the facts against it are in no comparison. The ideas and factuals may very but their is indeed a greater being controlling the universe and using us as pieces in a never ending game of monoply. Whom he (or she or it) is another story in itself. If their is no God than how can creatures exist? I heavily doubt that we (as in every living being) appeared without someone or something putting us here.

Technically the facts towards one is none.

 

[Phantom7]

"I'm this guy standing on a planet
Really I'm just a speck
Compared with a star, the planet is just another speck
To think about all of this
To think about the vast emptiness of space
There's billions and billions of stars
Billions and billions of specks"
it's a cute quote from Bill Nye.

I can't really look up into the night sky and see the brilliance of the universe and still believe there's a deity looking after us as a species. I don't think its very modest to think otherwise.

On the contrary, only a deity could have created all of the existing universe. There is no other explanation. I believe that it is that it's the nature of humankind to be insignificant "specks" because that gives God meaning as an all-powerful deity. What is amazing is that though we are mere specks, He redeems us by his grace. I posted this earlier on the subject of why God has any regards toward humanity:

But why would God care about us? One word: Grace -- the act of giving what is undeserved. The purpose of our creation, theoretically, was that some type of imperfection must exist in the universe to make it complete and to give God meaning. Without imperfection, perfection is absolutely meaningless. They are like two sides of the same coin, so to speak

But if he could hear everybody pray at once, how would he be able to differentiate from each prayer. The fact that he also has to give people what they want (well depending on what they ask of course) I don't see how he has the power to do that all at once

We cannot comprehend God at all. Every aspect of God is infinitely beyond the capacity of the human mind, so He definitely possess power to differentiate from every time someone cries out to Him. He knows and understands all of our thoughts, anyway. Also, he does not give us what we want, He gives us what is necessary. As heart-felt as our desires may be, they could be extremely stupid is God's mind. And don't underestimate the power of God. He is infinitely beyond everything else in existence, so He can't even be remotely compared to humans.

 

[freeman123]

I don't believe in any gods, simply because there isn't any reason to think or assume that any gods exist. There's no more evidence for gods than there is for dragons, vampires, unicorns, or mermaids. I'm no more inclined to believe that the universe was created by a god than I am to believe that it was created by a magic space hippo.

 

[Phantom7]

I don't believe in any gods, simply because there isn't any reason to think or assume that any gods exist. There's no more evidence for gods than there is for dragons, vampires, unicorns, or mermaids. I'm no more inclined to believe that the universe was created by a god than I am to believe that it was created by a magic space hippo.

This is why a hate fairy tales sometimes. It distorts the belief in God to something mythical and impossible, rather than logical and serious. God is nothing like a dragon or vampire. Greek and Roman gods may have been, but those beliefs are long gone.