"Recovery Tier List"

[NixxxoN]

The recovery is one of the most important things in this game. Edgeguarding is one crucial situation for kill or getting killed. The thing is, how good is really a recovery? Considering the range the movement possibilities and the predictability of each one, the list from best to worst would be (IMO) about this:

Top Tier

1- Pikachu (very high range, fastest)
2- Mario (floaty, high range, fireballs, several move possibilities, high priority up+B)
3- Luigi (floaty, high range, fireballs (worse than mario), several move possibilities, high priority up+B)
4- Kirby (very high range, defense capacity)

Mid Tier

5- Samus (floaty, decent range, defense capacity, high priority up+B)
6- Jigglypuff (very high range, no up+B)
7- Yoshi (only one jump (semi-invicibility), no up+B)
8- Fox (average range, predictable, after up+b move range)

Bottom Tier

9- DK (bad upper range, predictable)
10- Falcon (bad range, bad recovery in general, up+b sometimes very useful)
11- Ness (good range but hardest, very slow, predictable and interceptable)
12- Link (very bad range, worst recovery in general)

What do you think about it?

 

[DemonicInfluence]

Wtf? Jiggly should be higher than Mario/Luigi

 

[Rampage]

Wtf? Jiggly should be higher than Mario/Luigi

No, she can't pound her way up like in melee.

 

[DemonicInfluence]

True, but jiggly still has uber skills at recovery..

Mario/Luigi's recoverys are also easily gimped... THey basically have to sweetspot everytime or else suffer major landing lag. And that means pretty predictable...

Btw former topics on this: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=114237&highlight=recovery+tier

I agree with greenblob more than you, NixxxoN

 

[NixxxoN]

True, but jiggly still has uber skills at recovery..

Mario/Luigi's recoverys are also easily gimped... THey basically have to sweetspot everytime or else suffer major landing lag. And that means pretty predictable...

Btw former topics on this: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=114237&highlight=recovery+tier

I agree with greenblob more than you, NixxxoN

lol greenblob puts Ness better than Luigi and Mario... So LMAO.
Mario and Luigi have down B which is very helpful to go higher and then they can fireball spam for defense, then they have second jump and up+B which has high priority. I think they both have the best recoveries after Kirby and Pika.

Jiggly is either in very high position or he struggles badly if hes too down. Its very important to have vertical recovery besides horizontal.

And Samus has a better recovery than DK and Fox

 

[DemonicInfluence]

Okay, I don't agree about the ness thing.....

Disjointed hitboxes (so basically everyone's fsmash/dsmash) > Mario Bros.' up B. Also, spikes/sex kicks > Mario Bros.' down B.

100% true there....
The only case you could make is that they have fireballs, but even then..... Those are pretty big weaknesses.

 

[Wenbobular]

I personally hate Jiggly's recovery because it's only the first three jumps that do anything, if you get hit and you have to recovery without the first three, it's very hard to get back.
I also like DK's recovery because of his really big arms...haha.

 

[NixxxoN]

Just play Ness a lot and you will realize that his recovery sucks.

I think Mario/Luigi/Jiggly recoveries are pretty much similarly good, but I think Mario is the best of those, and Luigi and Jiggly would be about the same. Mario and Luigi have much more vertical recovery and this is very important. Jiggly's "jumps" are so weak if you didnt notice. You know that she won't go up, only horitzontal and a little down

 

[DemonicInfluence]

I meant I don't agree with greenblob about the ness thing sorry...

And what?!?! She has rising pound, which means a lot better vertical recovery... That and she usually gets sent flying really high and far, which is very good for her... And her jumps do send her up...a lot....

Mario and Luigi only have like decent horizontal recovery

 

[NixxxoN]

I meant I don't agree with greenblob about the ness thing sorry...

And what?!?! She has rising pound, which means a lot better vertical recovery... That and she usually gets sent flying really high and far, which is very good for her... And her jumps do send her up...a lot....

Mario and Luigi only have like decent horizontal recovery

lol Jiggly HAS NOT a rising pound in SSB64.

And Mario/Luigi have very good vertical recovery if you use down+B properly (did you know the up+B rising?)

 

[DemonicInfluence]

It rises, just not as much. Just enough to make it worthwhile tho.

Jigglypuff's Rising Pound
By holding up after the B input for pound, you can make Jigglypuff rise. This gives Jigglypuff substantial horizontal recovery.

I think they have good vertical, but not that good horizontal...

 

[Zantetsu]

Yoshi is so easily edge guarded. Why is he pretty high up there?

 

[NixxxoN]

Yoshi is so easily edge guarded. Why is he pretty high up there?

well with his jump you cant knock out him for a while... If you use that properly and defend well you can return. I think his recovery is better than link, falcon, ness and well not sure about DK and Fox.

 

[BentoBox]

Where's Peach?

 

[Zantetsu]

well with his jump you cant knock out him for a while... If you use that properly and defend well you can return. I think his recovery is better than link, falcon, ness and well not sure about DK and Fox.

Even if you can't knock him out for a while, he's still easy as hell to edgeguard with. Easier then ness >_>

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

ness is more sux than falcon

 

[NixxxoN]

ness is more sux than falcon

Ness is harder but has more range. Dont know, both are pretty bad...

 

[Plazma]

i think ness should be higher up. If you use ness for a short time you quickly learn to aim his thunder. once that is out of the way you have very long range and if anyone gets in your way they are in for pain

 

[Surri-Sama]

The chars that float suck for recovery...Yoshi Jiggly and Kirby should be next to link, fox and falcon (those three suck equaly) where as samus should be 3rd

Pikachu
Mario/Luigi
Samus
DK
Yoshi
Ness/Link/CF/Fox
Jiggly/Kirby

 

[Zantetsu]

Samus? 3rd?

What did I tell you about smoking that stuff, Surri? You know it ****s with your head!

 

[Surri-Sama]

Samus? 3rd?

What did I tell you about smoking that stuff, Surri? You know it ****s with your head!

lol tell me whats wrong with samus, ...her third jump is crazy priorty...she has bombs to help get back, and to create mind games!!! and shes Samus...i mean compared to the rest of the chars her Recovery is good...espcialy those floaties that are "supposably" better :|

 

[Wenbobular]

You put Kirby as dead last? Man, now I know you're smoking something
Through sheer distance alone Kirby beats out a lot of the crew's recoveries, and combine it with ridiculous priority aerials, he is definitely not last.

 

[NixxxoN]

You put Kirby as dead last? Man, now I know you're smoking something
Through sheer distance alone Kirby beats out a lot of the crew's recoveries, and combine it with ridiculous priority aerials, he is definitely not last.

LOL yes, Kirby and Jiggly recovery worse than Link's.... Are you drunk Sirhc?
And you cant put Fox the same level as Ness as hes much easier to sweetspot the ledge

lol tell me whats wrong with samus, ...her third jump is crazy priorty...she has bombs to help get back, and to create mind games!!! and shes Samus...i mean compared to the rest of the chars her Recovery is good...espcialy those floaties that are "supposably" better :|

Yes Samus's recovery is good if you are close enough. You can pull of the flame throwing while returning and algong with the Up+B it makes a very good defense.
If you are a little too away you have to pull that bomb recovery which it sucks

i think ness should be higher up. If you use ness for a short time you quickly learn to aim his thunder. once that is out of the way you have very long range and if anyone gets in your way they are in for pain

I disagree. If you have it aimed, its still hard and slow. You can be intercepted before you do the "self shot", and before you getting to the ground.

See this to see how Ness can be edge****ed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjCwa9oEIhI

 

[ant-d]

 

[NixxxoN]

lol yes, hes a little lost. Btw why do you put an image instead of normal quoting?

 

[Gory snake]

See this to see how Ness can be edge****ed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjCwa9oEIhI

This kinda disproves your point, right at the start Falcon jumps out to edgeguard Ness and just gets hit by PKT2, but the other recoveries did get succesfully edgeguarded, with the F-smash and spikes. Im not saying Ness has a great recovery, its just not horrible

 

[ant-d]

 

[NixxxoN]

LOL!

This kinda disproves your point, right at the start Falcon jumps out to edgeguard Ness and just gets hit by PKT2, but the other recoveries did get succesfully edgeguarded, with the F-smash and spikes. Im not saying Ness has a great recovery, its just not horrible

3 different edgeguards to death. The ones with up+b and spike are the fastest ones but Isai could've done other things. Well obviouly Ness has some invincibility frames but thats not enough to be a good recovery

 

[Surri-Sama]

You put Kirby as dead last? Man, now I know you're smoking something
Through sheer distance alone Kirby beats out a lot of the crew's recoveries, and combine it with ridiculous priority aerials, he is definitely not last.

and here i thought how easy it was to intercept mattered...kirbys arieals only put him in worse spots then he started..they are high priority but easy to predict...i find once kirbys are off the stage they are MUCH easier to put under pressure then when they are on stage, and once you put them under pressure there s not much kirby can do but swing with areials while tryign to get back.....and if you can force kirby off the stage long enough for him to run out of jumps...-1 stock for the kirby...his third jump aint helpin


and Nixxxon, yoru contributing nothing to the Ness's recovery debate, other then you saying he can be edgegaurded... the four i gourped as 2nd last, are all very easy to edge gaurd...sweetspot of not

 

[Wenbobular]

and here i thought how easy it was to intercept mattered...kirbys arieals only put him in worse spots then he started..they are high priority but easy to predict...i find once kirbys are off the stage they are MUCH easier to put under pressure then when they are on stage, and once you put them under pressure there s not much kirby can do but swing with areials while tryign to get back.....and if you can force kirby off the stage long enough for him to run out of jumps...-1 stock for the kirby...his third jump aint helpin

You can't possibly put him dead last.

 

[Surri-Sama]

You can't possibly put him dead last.

yessir, due to his inabilty to quickly sweetspot, (which is the only thing going for most chars) he is left open at all times...very easy target

 

[Wenbobular]

He can recover so high it usually doesn't matter though.

 

[Surri-Sama]

He can recover so high it usually doesn't matter though.

he does, he is out of options, once his last jump (other then third) is used he is doomed if he isnt well far away from the foe...and i thik our matches just proved my point about Ness and Fox

 

[tutata]

Nixxxon perhaps you should play longer b4 making a recovery tier list.

 

[Wenbobular]

Well actually, we never played Ness.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Well actually, we never played Ness.

haha definitly not, but you seen how easy it is to edge gaurd fox no matter what you do xD

 

[NixxxoN]

Sirhc, I think your sooo wrong about kirby and jiggly being the worst recoveries, but well, I wont force you to think like me.
And yes I do contribute @ ness recovery... It really sucks imo. Tell me why isnt that bad, I havent found any good reason why in the whole thread.

Another example,Sima (probably the best Ness in the world) vs Red Mario (another great player) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB6eNRG2gw8
Just see that although being an amazing Ness player, hes pretty much death once hes off the edge.

Nixxxon perhaps you should play longer b4 making a recovery tier list.

How do you know how much time I played? If you disagree post your alternative list

 

[MakoEnergy]

I think Jiggly has a good spot on the tier list, the horizontal recovery (if you let the control stick go neutral b4 you use pound) can greatly extend Jiggly's range.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Sirhc, I think your sooo wrong about kirby and jiggly being the worst recoveries, but well, I wont force you to think like me.
And yes I do contribute @ ness recovery... It really sucks imo. Tell me why isnt that bad, I havent found any good reason why in the whole thread.

Another example,Sima (probably the best Ness in the world) vs Red Mario (another great player) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB6eNRG2gw8
Just see that although being an amazing Ness player, hes pretty much death once hes off the edge.




How do you know how much time I played? If you disagree post your alternative list

Your using a match that shows a pro Ness, getting edgegaurded by a pro Mario....do you want me to show you pro videos of people getting edge gaurded?..all chars can be edgegaurded at a high level...all chars bottom tier!!

and as for Kirby and Jigglypuff... "imo" is ont evidance as to why they ARE as good as you say, when im giving actual facts based on actual experiances

And just to prove my point, here this video would be my attempt, at yoru way of disproving thigns http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouUooMEHqig&feature=related

 

[Plazma]

wow isai completely demolished kirby in that video, awesome