"Recovery Tier List"

[ant-d]

Yoshi is not invincible during 2nd jump

 

[Wenbobular]

Mario's fireballs are generally considered better than Luigi's because they're harder to dodge when when he fires like 3 and then all manage to fall on you at about the same time (thank you SSB physics). He also has a much better up-b (you'll never ping anyone on recovery, at least Mario's has knockback). The extra distance Luigi gets is pretty negligible, and he gets so much floaty airtime (not a good thing).

 

[Zantetsu]

11. Ness : Easier to predict Up-B direction. Far recovery but alot of chance to miss (specially if your name is BHLMRO).

I'm actually quite good at ness's recovery. It's just because you don't p2p and we have to use the ****ty pj64k.

 

[ant-d]

I think some one asked me something about Falcon's up+b...

I forgot what that person asked, but I remember they asked something...

Post your question here if you are still around...

oh btw, I am able to test up+b 'priority' and situations now
if anyone has a question it's a good time to ask
if you don't have a question that is ok

 

[Johnknight1]

Where's Peach?

ROFLOL!

10toadmanders

Personally I say:
1. Pikachu: Do I EVEN NEED TO SAY!?!?!
2. Mario: dB *****, fireballs ****, and Mario *****.
3. Luigi: Better recovery then Mario, but without the fireballs to compliment it.
4. Jigglypuff: Predictable, but long and Jigglypuff almost never stops coming.
5. Kirby: Predicatble final jump, but other then that Kirby lasts about as logn as Jiggz. The up B is very stopable, though.
6. Ness: Easy to predict, but covers huge areas. If you stop PK Fire though-he's screwed
7. Yoshi: Predictable but a quite long second jump. No up B or third jump isn't that good, though.
8. Samus: Not the best, but the up B is a nice touch.
9. Donkey Kong: Predictable as crap, and goes quite far, but it doesn't go up very much...
10. Fox: Short and predictable. But his blasters can be quite a good stopper to edge guarding and edge hogging.
11. Captain Falcon: Short and predictable as well.
12. Link: That up B sure does go high, doesn't it!?!?

Spoiler

[/sarcasm]

 

[tigerbombzz]

ROFLOL!

10toadmanders

Personally I say:
1. Pikachu: Do I EVEN NEED TO SAY!?!?!
2. Mario: dB *****, fireballs ****, and Mario *****.
3. Luigi: Better recovery then Mario, but without the fireballs to compliment it.
4. Jigglypuff: Predictable, but long and Jigglypuff almost never stops coming.
5. Kirby: Predicatble final jump, but other then that Kirby lasts about as logn as Jiggz. The up B is very stopable, though.
6. Ness: Easy to predict, but covers huge areas. If you stop PK Fire though-he's screwed
7. Yoshi: Predictable but a quite long second jump. No up B or third jump isn't that good, though.
8. Samus: Not the best, but the up B is a nice touch.
9. Donkey Kong: Predictable as crap, and goes quite far, but it doesn't go up very much...
10. Fox: Short and predictable. But his blasters can be quite a good stopper to edge guarding and edge hogging.
11. Captain Falcon: Short and predictable as well.
12. Link: That up B sure does go high, doesn't it!?!?

Spoiler

[/sarcasm]

you are a fuking r tard

 

[B Link]

I wud say

1 - Pikachu : He's a recovery god, 2nd hardest char to edgeguard imo.

2 - Kirby : First his up-b noise is annoying so it removes some concentration from the opponent who tries edgeguarding. Hardest char to edgeguard imo.

3 - Luigi : Epic down-b, fireball spam helps not being edgeguarded, high jumps and good Up-B.

4 - Jigglypuff : Regular B helps alot from far-away distances. He could be better but he cant get really high, but far he CANZ.

5 - Yoshi : Invincibility frames, good recovery, no up b but good second jump.

6. Samus : Good Up-B, hard to edgehog, down-b bomb poo is good for far recovery.

7. Mario : Good Up-B, (not-so) epic down-B, short jumps (compared to Luigi's).

8. Fox : His blaster can be tricky, if you don't wait him to put it back and you do Up-B, Fox will still laser. Easy to predict Up-B, but when you are in front of a wall, if the Fox is a recovery Genius, he can point Up-B in right-Up direction instead of Up (only if he's close to the edge).

9. Donkey Kong : Good Up-B, specially for combo breakers when far from the stage. But he can't go high with his Up-B, but can go far.

10. Captain Falcon : Very easy to predict Up-B. Bad recovery in general but Falcon Kick and Punch can help a lot in midair.

11. Ness : Easier to predict Up-B direction. Far recovery but alot of chance to miss (specially if your name is BHLMRO).

12. Link : *gets throwed by Pika at 52% and dies"

wtf none of these are right

 

[NixxxoN]

I think some one asked me something about Falcon's up+b...

I forgot what that person asked, but I remember they asked something...

Post your question here if you are still around...

oh btw, I am able to test up+b 'priority' and situations now
if anyone has a question it's a good time to ask
if you don't have a question that is ok

I would like to know how to spike the UP+B of Mario, Luigi and Samus. I mean, what dair has more priority that those?

 

[Zen Yore]

wtf none of these are right

WTF r u dum know the signification of "imo" ?

Owell, b link is awesome so I forgive you.

 

[ant-d]

I now have more tools to analyse hit boxes. This is a good indication of how far luigi's hit box comes out. This is at the point where Luigi begins to turn around, so near the middle-end of the up+b. Before that he still has some good range on the fist. The head is vulnerable

I didn't include the second hit box. That one goes all around Luigi's head & lower region etc, more or less. But it is tame compared to the fist.

Don't attack the red area. Almost every attack will lose or trade hits. At the beginning-middle of his up+b the fist hit box is much smaller, so many attacks can beat it.

Luigi's head has no chance against Kirby's drill

 

[Zantetsu]

I now have more tools to analyse hit boxes. This is a good indication of how far luigi's hit box comes out. This is at the point where Luigi begins to turn around, so near the middle-end of the up+b. Before that he still has some good range on the fist. The head is vulnerable

I didn't include the second hit box. That one goes all around Luigi's head & lower region etc, more or less. But it is tame compared to the fist.

Don't attack the red area. Almost every attack will lose or trade hits. At the beginning-middle of his up+b the fist hit box is much smaller, so many attacks can beat it.

I really like this and it seems it can help a lot. Good work.

 

[ant-d]

Samus up+b hit box does not have much range on the top (remember long hit box range = priority)

A weak n-air can beat it simply by landing directly on top in the right position. Strong n-air doesn't lose on top. So d-air directly above will not lose.
Samus is invincible for the very beginning of up+b (before she goes into the screw shape)

The hit box has a little more range on the left and right sides so d-air can lose/trade hits if it goes too far to the sides. <-- So don't try to hit with Kirby's side hit box. Essentially the body of Kirby.

btw, the script which I made to make the hit boxes in the pictures cannot draw circles, so it's possible that the -real- hit box is circular and not made up of straight lines, and also it's not pixel accurate by any means. At least it gives general idea.

Falcon's d-air is much different from Kirby's in terms of hit box. Falcon's is like this:

So it will be more difficult to hit (without trading hits) a long range hit box recovery. Usually it doesn't matter if you trade hits since the spike may still kill them.
The lower back part of Falcon has a little more range, but it's probably difficult to purposely hit with that part.

 

[NixxxoN]

wow thanks man. This is so interesting. Keep it up :bigthumbu

 

[JKHDaBomb]

link = RECOVERY GOD!!!!1

cept when he's thrown off the stage...

 

[Stroupes]

Wow, bad list.
Kibry and Jiggs should be at the top.
Especially Kirby, he has...5 something jumps, AND a B+up.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Wow, bad list.
Kibry and Jiggs should be at the top.
Especially Kirby, he has...5 something jumps, AND a B+up.

awww, meow kitty, teach him how to read please :D

 

[otg]

Wow, bad list.
Kibry and Jiggs should be at the top.
Especially Kirby, he has...5 something jumps, AND a B+up.

Pika can recover almost instantly from anywhere on the field. One time in a free for all I somehow ended up UNDERNEATH Dreamland and still made it back. I'd like to see Kirby do that without getting hit out of his Up B, which would severely gimp his recovery.

Kirby and Jiggz recover is just too predictable and easily gimped, especially Jiggly's seeing as how she lacks a reliable UpB so she can't make up much Vertical distance. If Kirby gets knocked out of his UpB, adios Kirby! Pika can mix up his recovery so much, the only thing he has to worry about is becoming too predictable and getting spiked.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Pika can recover almost instantly from anywhere on the field. One time in a free for all I somehow ended up UNDERNEATH Dreamland and still made it back. I'd like to see Kirby do that without getting hit out of his Up B, which would severely gimp his recovery.

Kirby and Jiggz recover is just too predictable and easily gimped, especially Jiggly's seeing as how she lacks a reliable UpB so she can't make up much Vertical distance. If Kirby gets knocked out of his UpB, adios Kirby! Pika can mix up his recovery so much, the only thing he has to worry about is becoming too predictable and getting spiked.

This guy got the idea

 

[Blackshadow]

Where's ma Falcon Punch recovery?

 

[mantlecore77]

I don't know why you put Captain Falcon down so low. He has average jumping.
And Luigi is NOT a great recovery artist, since in this game he only has a straight up Up B attack, which doesn't cover great distance.

 

[Fireblaster]

I don't know why you put Captain Falcon down so low. He has average jumping.
And Luigi is NOT a great recovery artist, since in this game he only has a straight up Up B attack, which doesn't cover great distance.

Please don't post again. Other newbs might read your posts and think they're true.

 

[Winston]

LOL this thread is hilarious. There's like a random influx of 08 people who are a little blurry in the distinctions between melee and ssb64.

Anyways, the last few IMO tier lists have had jiggs too high, probably. Jiggs is really easy for characters who have good air mobility to edgeguard (pikachu, fox, falcon) since she has almost no vertical.

Since everyone's doing it and nobody cares anyway, here's mine:

Pika
Kirby
Mario
Luigi
Yoshi
DK
Falcon
Samus
Fox
Link
Ness

EDIT: ant-d signal

Can you do an analysis of Pikachu's sweetspotting abilities? Basically, my question is, if the pikachu is sweetspotting, is there any way he can avoid a falcon dtilting at the edge? (or a fox dsmashing, mario dsmashing, etc.)

 

[ant-d]

pikachu is not invincible during the main parts of up+b
if the attack goes past the edge then pikachu will get hit

i do not know what you mean by 'sweetspotting'

 

[otg]

I'm sorry, how can people put Ness at the BOTTOM, or second to the bottom. His recovery might be easily intercepted, but the length it can reach is atrocious. The way I see it is:

Top:

Pika


High:

Mario
Kirby
Luigi

Mid:

Samus
Jiggly
Yoshi (honestly I'm still iffy on where he belongs because of how easily interrupted his second jump)

Low:

Fox
Ness
DK
Falcon

Bottom:

Link

 

[Fireblaster]

I'm sorry, how can people put Ness at the BOTTOM, or second to the bottom. His recovery might be easily intercepted, but the length it can reach is atrocious. The way I see it is:

Top:

Pika


High:

Mario
Kirby
Luigi

Mid:

Samus
Jiggly
Yoshi (honestly I'm still iffy on where he belongs because of how easily interrupted his second jump)

Low:

Fox
Ness
DK
Falcon

Bottom:

Link

I completely agree with this list except that samus goes to Low tier. IMO samus is very easy to edgeguard, she has slow horizontal speed and predicting her recovery with her bombs is really easy. Just about anyone can outmaneuver her when she's recovering and she's very vulnerable from the front.

 

[Winston]

Responses to people above:

otg:

Ness' distance achieved is much less important than how easy he is to gimp. You put yoshi low because of how easily his jump is interrupted, yet he doesn't get knocked out of it until mid percents. Ness basically dies any time he's off the edge >.> And that's not an exaggeration...

Fireblaster:

samus is easy to edgeguard, but so are fox and falcon for that matter. Why is she below them? >.> I've already made my argument for ness.

ant-d: thanks for answering my question... by "sweetspotting" I mean using a recovery in such a way so that you grab the ledge without going over or past it. (or going over it as little as possible).

 

[ant-d]

you cannot sweetspot that way and
you always go over the ledge by a lot and for a long period of time because
you cannot grab the ledge when going upwards

 

[Fireblaster]

Fireblaster:

samus is easy to edgeguard, but so are fox and falcon for that matter. Why is she below them? >.> I've already made my argument for ness.

That's why I said she goes to low tier along with fox and falcon.

 

[Winston]

That's why I said she goes to low tier along with fox and falcon.

So mid tier ends up just being... jiggs and yoshi?

Personally I hate jiggs' recovery, but it's decent I guess against the floatier characters.

 

[otg]

I think the problem is that beyond the top 4, everyone's recovery is mediocre with the only obvious bottom tier in Link. Maybe it should just be:

Top:

Pikachu

High:

Mario
Kirby
Luigi

Mid:

Everyone else

Bottom:

Link

There are obvious down sides to everyone's certain recoveries but they are all effective in their own ways.

 

[Winston]

I think the problem is that beyond the top 4, everyone's recovery is mediocre with the only obvious bottom tier in Link. Maybe it should just be:

Top:

Pikachu

High:

Mario
Kirby
Luigi

Mid:

Everyone else

Bottom:

Link

There are obvious down sides to everyone's certain recoveries but they are all effective in their own ways.

Put ness along with link and I'd agree with that.

Put it this way: how many situations are there in which you can edgeguard link consistently but NOT edgeguard ness?

Not a whole lot of relevant ones, at least for the higher tier characters.

 

[otg]

Link can't vary up his recovery as much as Ness's, it just doesn't go nearly as far. Ness might have one of the worst recoveries due to how easily gimped it is, but couldn't the same be said for Samus, Falcon, Yoshi, Fox, etc etc. All predictable and easily interrupted. I know Ness is vulnerable during the first part of his Up B, but it's not always practical to try and edgeguard him for fear of Pkt2. I disagree with the idea that once he's off the stage he's dead like Link.

 

[Winston]

Link can't vary up his recovery as much as Ness's, it just doesn't go nearly as far. Ness might have one of the worst recoveries due to how easily gimped it is, but couldn't the same be said for Samus, Falcon, Yoshi, Fox, etc etc. All predictable and easily interrupted. I know Ness is vulnerable during the first part of his Up B, but it's not always practical to try and edgeguard him for fear of Pkt2. I disagree with the idea that once he's off the stage he's dead like Link.

Ness is actually significantly easier to gimp than Samus, Falcon, Fox and ESPECIALLY yoshi because his second jump is so slow. Those other chars can often get back using just their second jump.

Besides, at low % if you try to gimp samus or falcon with regular attacks (aka attacks other than shinespike/yoshi's dtilt, they can just up b again immediately because of low hitstun and hit you with their up b.

Yoshi's isn't easily interrupted until past 50% or so... he's not easily gimpable.

 

[NixxxoN]

That's why I said she goes to low tier along with fox and falcon.

You are wrong, Samus is definitely more recovery capable than Fox and Falcon. You can recovery doing the flame thrower that makes her hard to be hit plus an up+B that has good priority plus shes floaty. I think she's up there with Jiggly and the next after Pika, Mario, Luigi and Kirby.

 

[amac22]

i think you put jiggily a little hi... but other wise the list looks pretty solid

 

[Fireblaster]

You are wrong, Samus is definitely more recovery capable than Fox and Falcon. You can recovery doing the flame thrower that makes her hard to be hit plus an up+B that has good priority plus shes floaty. I think she's up there with Jiggly and the next after Pika, Mario, Luigi and Kirby.

She's only gonna use her upB when she's close to the edge or below it, so it's not really an option for her if you jump out to edgeguard her when she's still far. And like I said, one of the factors of why she's so easy to edgeguard is that her horizontal aerial speed is really slow. Sure, her Fair will push away anyone who just blindly rushes in to hit her, but she's never gonna hit anyone with that low priority move if the edgeguarder actually bothers spacing.

 

[NixxxoN]

She's only gonna use her upB when she's close to the edge or below it, so it's not really an option for her if you jump out to edgeguard her when she's still far. And like I said, one of the factors of why she's so easy to edgeguard is that her horizontal aerial speed is really slow. Sure, her Fair will push away anyone who just blindly rushes in to hit her, but she's never gonna hit anyone with that low priority move if the edgeguarder actually bothers spacing.

Yeah whatever but still better than Fox and Falcon. Both are ridiculously easy to edgeguard. Fox is a little better than Falcon but still... if hes below the ledge and does up+b hes dead... you always know where hes going to be and then spike

 

[Winston]

The difference between fox, falcon, and samus is almost negligible considering there are relevant situations where they each have advantages in recovering ove rthe others....

 

[NixxxoN]

The difference between fox, falcon, and samus is almost negligible considering there are relevant situations where they each have advantages in recovering ove rthe others....

But still Samus is better. With samus you can block the one that comes to you edgegduarding (with fire) and then spike him and still you can return. Can you do something similarly good with Fox and Falcon ? No.

 

[Surri-Sama]

when it comes to samus vs fox/cf, the things i look at is the distance (samus wins) and the priotity of the 3rd jump(samus wins) all three of these chars are easy to edge gaurd (pika ftilt!) so really it comes down to the data...Ant-D!