Really, how could you switch to brawl now.

[Firestorm88]

dum, l-canceling is mindless button clicking, useless creating barriers between elites/nonelites

wavedashing also creates barriers but actually uses skill


So what good is keeping in . lcancelling?

I know that wasn't very coherent. But lcancel sucks. lesslaggy aerials ftw

I know what you're saying.

Removing wavedashing is a bit detrimental as wavedashing gave you more options and now those options are gone.
Removing l-cancels while reducing lag by 50% automatically does absolutely nothing. You were going to l-cancel every time anyway. The purpose of l-cancelling was to help chain together hits better. You can still chain together those hits.

 

[psicicle]

I like it because of the technical barrier. It is a different requirement, smash is not a game in which only mind matters. Tech skill is a component of skill also. I'm all for L cancels.

 

[gamelover15]

Brawl will have its own techs.

64 focused on Z-cancelling
Melee's MAIN focus was wavedashing.
Brawl's focus might shield tricks or edge guarding.

Who knows? When you look at it, all three games are pretty different from each other and each will still have their own tournament (64 has online play with Project 64 and Melee fan based is still large)

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I know what you're saying.

Removing wavedashing is a bit detrimental as wavedashing gave you more options and now those options are gone.
Removing l-cancels while reducing lag by 50% automatically does absolutely nothing. You were going to l-cancel every time anyway. The purpose of l-cancelling was to help chain together hits better. You can still chain together those hits.

But now you cant miss.

 

[KirbySSB]

But now you cant miss.

good players rarely miss anyway

 

[Lesheik]

Switch? More like start, right?

 

[Zankoku]

No, good players rarely get hit.

I don't think Melee focused on wavedashing. If anything, L-Canceling is far more important.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^It was definately L-canceling that melee focused on as far as advance techs go. And really L-canceling was just a tweaked form of Z-canceling.

I don't think L-canceling should go, but I'll still play Brawl even if it's not there. I guess what I liked about L-canceling was that it literally and almost instantly made gameplay twice as fast for me. As long as Brawl is about as fast gameplay wise as melee then I'll be fine with L-canceling being gone. Although I really did like having a little technical barrier to seperate more devoted players from scrubs. I think that if someone that actually practiced for long hours to make themselves better then they really deserve to have some overwhelming advantage over someone who just picked up the game. Advance techs are just proof that you actually decided to get better at this game and have at least started working towards that. It's kind of like an initiation into competative play, but oh well. I guess I'll still beat all those random scrubs anyway, I just probably won't look as flashy doing it.

 

[ZoSo]

Can we ban Dylan_Tnga yet?

 

[RCagent]

There's no way I'm going to quite melee when Brawl comes out, even if Brawl turns out to be conducive to competitive play. I agree that it probably won't be though. My feeling is that Brawl is intended to be geared towards a more casual, "party game" audience and the game play is going to reflect that. Serious gamers are in the minority, and Nintendo is appealing to the market where it thinks the most money is.

So in other words,

VIVA LA MELEE!

[Sarcasm] Yes, honestly, Nintendo must be in it for the money and not the players when they make a game more accessible to more players. [/sarcasm]

 

[SenorPresidente]

At this point its just plain foolish to be making assumptions. I mean all we have had to play is a demo. And besides that when melee first came out it was rather straight forward compare to other fighting games. Why don't we save this threads until the game actually comes out.

 

[Jumpluff]

No wavedashing+auto L Cancelling= Better for everyone.

Cuse, think about it...
It'll give people the chance who can't wavedash the ability to not get pounded, and the people who ONLY wavedash to maybe not be so **** annoying with it.
As for auto L cancel...
Just made it so we don't have to press a button to get up faster. Get over it.

In B4 you call me a scrub.

 

[Rose Monkey]

No wavedashing+auto L Cancelling= Better for everyone.

Cuse, think about it...
It'll give people the chance who can't wavedash the ability to not get pounded, and the people who ONLY wavedash to maybe not be so **** annoying with it.
As for auto L cancel...
Just made it so we don't have to press a button to get up faster. Get over it.

In B4 you call me a scrub.

Also in b4 totally awesome pros come in and tell you "BUT WE MUST BE PROS, IF WE CAN'T USE SPAM DA GLITCHES THEN WE CAN'T PLAY RIGHT, BECAUSE THE GAME NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE A GIANT GLITCH."

Okay, maybe a bit too far, but the jist of it is in there, somewhere.

also, pressing a button after you attack to make the game forget that you made an attack makes you totally spectacular and pro.

 

[SenorPresidente]

No wavedashing+auto L Cancelling= Better for everyone.

Cuse, think about it...
It'll give people the chance who can't wavedash the ability to not get pounded, and the people who ONLY wavedash to maybe not be so **** annoying with it.
As for auto L cancel...
Just made it so we don't have to press a button to get up faster. Get over it.

In B4 you call me a scrub.

ugh it sounds like people are happy with this so they can put less effort into getting better. either way new techniques will rise and the lazy bumpkins will end up in the same position

 

[Rose Monkey]

ugh it sounds like people are happy with this so they can put less effort into getting better. either way new techniques will rise and the lazy bumpkins will end up in the same position

Well, it's not so much as effort as it is to press a single button in the case of l-cancel.

it doesn't take any skill whatsoever to press z after you attack. Having it automatic isn't going to make that much of a difference. If anything it will just make it better for everyone.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I played Brawl all this weekend. Brawl ***** Melee.

Sure, there may not be any L-cancel (Most aerials can be canceled out with an attack) or Wavedash, but the in game mechanics are so in depth that it's amazing how you can't love it. The aerial comboat feature is also a great step forward in the Smash series. early today, I pulled off an amazing combo:

FF Dair > U-tilt> U-smash > Full jump Fair (This is where the aerial combat component comes in. Since Fox's Fair doesn't suck, it has been moded to give upward momentum and upward knockback. Since that was the case...) > Mid Air jump Uair.

This is just an example of how characters have changed dramatically. The depth in the game doesn't simply lie in the hands of techniques only seen in the eyes of a professional.

 

[KirbySSB]

I played Brawl all this weekend. Brawl ***** Melee.

Sure, there may not be any L-cancel (Most aerials can be canceled out with an attack) or Wavedash, but the in game mechanics are so in depth that it's amazing how you can't love it. The aerial comboat feature is also a great step forward in the Smash series. early today, I pulled off an amazing combo:

FF Dair > U-tilt> U-smash > Full jump Fair (This is where the aerial combat component comes in. Since Fox's Fair doesn't suck, it has been moded to give upward momentum and upward knockback. Since that was the case...) > Mid Air jump Uair.

This is just an example of how characters have changed dramatically. The depth in the game doesn't simply lie in the hands of techniques only seen in the eyes of a professional.

omg you're giving me teh bonar

 

[Bocom]

I played Brawl all this weekend. Brawl ***** Melee.

Sure, there may not be any L-cancel (Most aerials can be canceled out with an attack) or Wavedash, but the in game mechanics are so in depth that it's amazing how you can't love it. The aerial comboat feature is also a great step forward in the Smash series. early today, I pulled off an amazing combo:

FF Dair > U-tilt> U-smash > Full jump Fair (This is where the aerial combat component comes in. Since Fox's Fair doesn't suck, it has been moded to give upward momentum and upward knockback. Since that was the case...) > Mid Air jump Uair.

This is just an example of how characters have changed dramatically. The depth in the game doesn't simply lie in the hands of techniques only seen in the eyes of a professional.

Seriously? That sounds too good to be true! :D

 

[Imperial Wraith]

How come you guys got to play Brawl?

*Is jealous*

Bah.

I was actually surprised to hear that L-Canceling was taken out, as it was obviously an inteded part of melee. My first thoughts were "omg brawl is being dumbed down" (which I still think it is ), but the truth is my assumption is totally invalid till I actually get my hands on a copy

 

[ArcNatural]

No wavedashing+auto L Cancelling= Better for everyone.

Cuse, think about it...
It'll give people the chance who can't wavedash the ability to not get pounded, and the people who ONLY wavedash to maybe not be so **** annoying with it.
As for auto L cancel...
Just made it so we don't have to press a button to get up faster. Get over it.

In B4 you call me a scrub.

I agree with everyone about the L-canceling issue. It was in the first two, so it will certainly feel odd that it is not in the 3rd. When I first found out about l-canceling and did my first shffl combos I was happy my work was paying off with all the practice. Like most others, I liked that step in advancement. It could be possibly that they made it automatic so that for when people played the demo they could get a sense of all the cool combos you could do
(doubt it but who knows?). Just like how CoD4 started the beta with maxed out stats. I don't really see Nintendo doing this though.

Your whole statement about wavedashing is completely false. It seriously was not hard to learn how to wavedash at all. If you lost because someone wavedashed around alot you just suck. The only characters that would even have a reasonable argument about wavedashing making them broken were Fox and Falco. But they could have fix that simply by delaying the ability to JC out of shine. The reason I liked wavedashing was because it was simply another option in the game to use. Therefore, increasing your variation in movement. With the raised aerial combat that appears to be in brawl however I doubt there will be a serious loss of variation without wavedashing. Still it would of been nice to have another tool to play with.

 

[Mew2King]

im gonna R cancel anyway, then nothing will change in the lag but i wont get into a bad habit

 

[Number 1 DK]

If I'm right (correct me if I'm wrong) the developers of Melee didn't put wavedashing into Melee on purpose. They found it while playtesting and decided to keep it (again correct me if I'm wrong, this is just what I've heard). So how do we know what is going to be in Brawl, especially since it isn't even released yet?

 

[phanna]

It's peoples' first-opinion that L-cancelling seems to be out. It's very possible that all aerials have less lag, and so an l-cancelling difference would be smaller, and not noticeable until you're better at the game. I mean come on, how many people start learning to try to l-cancel, and keep asking their friends, "did I do it that time?"

That said, even if it is out, who cares? The game is about spacing, timing, and mindgames. These frequently lead into combos, which require control and technical consistency. L-cancelling does fall under technical consistency, but it's kind of arbitrary -- do something every time you land an aerial to make it faster? The REAL elements of the game will remain with or without l-cancelling (or wavedashing) - and that's the aforementioned spacing, timing, mindgames, and control. They are what make up the game, specific techniques are what define and give them variety.

Overall point: If you are afraid to losing to noobs just because they will be able to play as if they could L-cancel as well as you, then your overall gameplay must suck. Brawl = incredible.

 

[Andromeda]

Like some people have said before me. It's a new game. It's not Melee. it's not Smash64. It's Brawl. A plain, new game. Don't even try to think of anything else. The basics of smash is there. It's a smash just like the two others. It's just new. It's NOT Melee. Everyone will have to live with it. You who can't, don't play the game, and stop complaning about it.

 

[Tom]

It's peoples' first-opinion that L-cancelling seems to be out. It's very possible that all aerials have less lag, and so an l-cancelling difference would be smaller, and not noticeable until you're better at the game. I mean come on, how many people start learning to try to l-cancel, and keep asking their friends, "did I do it that time?"

That said, even if it is out, who cares? The game is about spacing, timing, and mindgames. These frequently lead into combos, which require control and technical consistency. L-cancelling does fall under technical consistency, but it's kind of arbitrary -- do something every time you land an aerial to make it faster? The REAL elements of the game will remain with or without l-cancelling (or wavedashing) - and that's the aforementioned spacing, timing, mindgames, and control. They are what make up the game, specific techniques are what define and give them variety.

Overall point: If you are afraid to losing to noobs just because they will be able to play as if they could L-cancel as well as you, then your overall gameplay must suck. Brawl = incredible.

Thank you.


Also, I'm sure someone has mentioned this before (I think it was nealdt??), but they could have turned on auto canceling for the sake of making the demo look smoother/better. Its just a demo. We shouldn't draw conclusions like this until we have the game.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Rofl all these advanced deconfirmations help Jigglypuff soooooooooooo much. Cause Jiggly hardly uses them!

 

[Micheloxx]

ok, i didnt know this, but this sucks..

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Rofl all these advanced deconfirmations help Jigglypuff soooooooooooo much. Cause Jiggly hardly uses them!

Lol, same for Zelda. And she's confirmed and more likely than not to be made better than she is in melee.

 

[mario-man]

LOL I was gonna post something, but since there are SUCH N00BS in here, I'll get flamed. I can't believe how you guys think that l-canceling is mindless button clicking. (actually, it was one person specifically) As you yourself said (you know who you are) it creates a barrier between elites and non-elites. You're AGAINST that?? This sounds bad but, you're just extremely jealous cuz you can't do them, OR you think advanced techs are cheating. If that's the case then........

 

[Youkai Master]

Overall point: If you are afraid to losing to noobs just because they will be able to play as if they could L-cancel as well as you, then your overall gameplay must suck. Brawl = incredible.

phanna speaks truth.

Anyway I'd just like to point out that people have reportedly seen the same move come out with lag and without any lag in different situations, so there's definitely something going on there, we just need to discover it. Here's what HugS has to say:

Also, what makes this exciting is that I really have no idea what new things we are gonna come up with. Ive seen moves auto cancel and have seen those very same moves lag. There has to be an explanation why, and we'll probably figure out how to make it consistent. I've seen people waveland...but yet people say wavedashing can't be done? I guarantee someone will find a way to do this at will.

There's also the fact that this is like a beta demo or less, so calm down we can't be sure of anything yet.

 

[Firestorm88]

LOL I was gonna post something, but since there are SUCH N00BS in here, I'll get flamed. I can't believe how you guys think that l-canceling is mindless button clicking. (actually, it was one person specifically) As you yourself said (you know who you are) it creates a barrier between elites and non-elites. You're AGAINST that?? This sounds bad but, you're just extremely jealous cuz you can't do them, OR you think advanced techs are cheating. If that's the case then........

How is it not mindless button clicking? You do it every single time you cancel an aerial. Every time. I don't think any top level player miss l-cancels.

And M2K, I don't see how it's a bad habit to not do it unless you plan on playing Melee and/or 64 frequently while playing Brawl. Wouldn't you finger be better off doing something else? Although I guess all the index finger ever does is stay on the l/r buttons so it shouldn't do anything.

Also, you must be the first guy who says a barrier between the elites and non-elites should be kept XD Dude, if the only thing that's keeping you from lower level players is the fact that you can l-cancel, then you need to improve.

 

[mario-man]

it's not the only thing, but it doesn't need to be made any easier for the ppl who don't want it bad enough.

 

[BentoBox]

L-cancelling and Wavedashing are not intuitive. And Sakurai shouldn't care about elitists. There's not a single developer in his right mind that would want to seperate the community in such a way. You're amazingly selfish.

 

[mario-man]

NOT


tenchars

BTW, I'm not an elitest. I just think that if you want to be good, then you should have to earn it in other ways besides mindgames. It adds an extra level of gameplay. Without these techs, Smash Bros. will become another button masher

 

[BentoBox]

Uh, no it wont.

 

[GotACoolName]

You people are just as bad as the people on the Brawl boards. You're both on the extreme ends of the technical continuum, with the Brawl boards on the Take out the Advanced Techniques or the Game Will Fail Hard end and the Melee boards on the L-canceling Gone Means the Game Is Ruined end. Why is it so hard to be in the God-****ed middle and use some common sense? Leaving the techniques in doesn't ruin the game, and neither does taking them out. If you think the ability to L-cancel and utilize wavedashing was the only factor that separated noobs from pros, then you suck at Smash and have no idea how to play. There's much more to the game than lowering your aerial lag time and air-dodging into the ground. Wait until you play the game to make judgments, because there are too many factors for you to determine the quality without experiencing it for yourself.

 

[Volrec]

All Demon Machine does is cry, it's like Dylan 1.2

 

[cubaisdeath]

Gimpyfish tested Brawl. And Pro smashers are the only people I trust when it comes to brawl critique, IGN is a bunch of noobs.

To above poster : You own. I agree with you sooo much, everyone who plays melee should.

Brawl no longer potentially sucks. It's just plain suck.

I wonder why it took me so long to find dylan's post regarding this issue LOL. anyways, I know a bunch of people down there playing it right now as I type this. Zel, Germ, Bob$, DSF, and some other are all down there playing and having a blast. Sure, the game is a little watered down in comparison to melee, but you have to realize brawl is a totally different game, and has to be viewed as just that. I'm going to miss wavedashes, but I can still moonwalk edgehog, so I'm good.

 

[pirkid]

Comment withheld. There ARE going to be new techniques in Brawl, you just have to be patient for them Japanese kids to find 'em.

 

[xelad1]

didn't it take AT LEAST a year before people really started adapting melee's advanced techniques into competitive play? I mean as far as I know the current melee metagame didn't really start to shape into what it is now until around 2003/04... and new things are still being found out/mastered. Why does everyone limit brawl's posibilities to one demo?

Also this topic is silly. Just because a new game in a franchise comes out doesn't mean people have to quit the old game or "switch". Look at all the games in the street fighter series... you have II, the Alpha series, III, and 4 is going to be released sometime next year. They all have different strengths and weaknesses, but they are all competetive and deep fighters in their own way... I mean enough so to all be present at Evo. Just because brawl comes out doesn't mean I won't still play melee.... and that should be the same for most people who enjoy it as a competitive fighter.