Reality Check: Items, Levels, & Adv Techs

[Limey]

Yeah man, i know. I agree with you that people fear change. That's why i think it's absolutely ridiculous that people say that they'll boycott Brawl and stuff if WDing is removed.

I can sortof understand people getting upset if it's removed, but at the same time, it's just a technique. Get upset if they remove your favourite character, or make the game terrible to play (and that does not include removing the WD), not over a technique! It just seems that people base their entire game over that ****ing sliding technique that they don't like to think of a game without it.

Brawl's a different game. There are gonna be different features, etc. We're probably all gonna have to re-learn how to play. If it is removed, it just means that in tourneys people are gonna have to win without using it to space yourself. I just cannot comprehend why it is such a big deal. It's not a if removing it will give an advantage to anyone or something, it just means that you'll have to fight without it. GAH!

And i agree with what you said about online play, but the fact is that you'd be willing to play some tourney rules matches, and so it that guy who posted right after me. The "grow up" thing is directed at people who'll be too stubborn to do so, and while there won't be many, i know there'll be a few.

 

[greenblob]

To those who think that Smash is too "technical" with wavedashing, if Smash had twice as many advanced techniques as it does now, it'd still be the least technical competitive fighting game out there.

And I guess that I pretty much agree with people who say "play the way you want." When I play Smash 64 online, I play 1v1s exclusively. I leave the game room if more people come and when I host, I set the player limit to two. If people don't want to play me that way, fine--I'll just play someone else.

 

[Superstar]

Of course, if the non-user is still better than the user at recovery, KO ability, overall playstyle.

Even if you can WD and know how to apply it properly, the rest of your game has to be up to scratch.

This is true, however if you are able to apply wavedash properly, the rest of the game becomes a cakewalk. So when you lose to a wavedasher, its might not be just cause they wavedash, but their rest of their game is also up to snuff.

Those who use Wavedash properly just so happen to be better at the rest of the game. However, its not the greatest advanced technique, its just useful. The most powerful and most needed technique is the L-Cancel, which is easy for most chars but is a pain in the rear for Fox's down air.

And of course, the reason I never play with items or banned stages is for the simple reason that I don't get to play often, since I can ONLY fight versus my brother, and he doesn't like to play often. Since I rarely get to play, I'd rather the few matches I get be competitive. If Brawl has a good online, I'll be playing so many competitive style matches I'll submit to the occasional FFA. I WILL use all the techniques I have and attempt to slaughter my opposition, but I'll do so with items.

Also, Mario practically relies on the wavedash to beat characters like Marth and such, and its useful to start Mario's combos [Mario is KO ********, so thank god he has excellent combo ability to make up for it]. Mario is crippled without it, and it just makes the game more fun. I will not boycott the game if its gone, but I'll miss it, until a new tech comes along.

 

[psicicle]

I have never played in a tourney, nor played against someone who can WD, so answer me this.

Can someone who can't WD beat someone who can? And i'm not talking about someone who just randomly slides everywhere, i mean someone who knows how to use it properly. Could someone who doesn't use it at all beat someone who uses it and uses it effectively?

Yes. I use ganon sometimes, and his wavedash really makes a very small part of his game because it is short and has a lot more startup lag than other wavedashes. Yet I beat people around my level (IE people who have incorporated wavedash into their game properly).

Look at gimpyfish, bowser has probably the worst wavedash in the game, yet he can beat other people who use, say, luigi, and still win because he is an overall better player.

WD =/= win

If you want to hear my reason on it, it's becuase I really don't care. I don't find it fun to learn atechnique just to compete. While some may say "But what about sheild grabbing and sidestep dodging". Well, unlike the techs, I didn't have to do anything special to learn them. I just relized one day "Hey, I can grab with my sheild. That's a great counter".

Where do you think WD cam about? Somebody found out about it, and realied "hey, I can use this to move around". Seems to work within your argument. Should only people who have discovered the technique by themselves be allowed to use it, because they had more "skill" in discovering it?

This argument also differentiates WD and shield grabbing in the tech skill required, which of course is subjective.

That isn't really what you are arguing, but I'm just demonstrating how it can't be applied to everyone.

To awnser your question, yes, depending on the sercumstance. Anyone can wavedash, but if someone didn't learn how to actually fight then it's useless. But, like I said, in a 1v1, with poeple of equal skill the people who can WD will win. And don't say "But WD is a skill. The person who can WD is better". Not true. While it takes skill to do, it is not a skill that can normally be learn thought playing the game, and needs out side training. It sounds confusing, but you can just play some smash and relize, if I airdodge into the ground, I can slide and if I do it fast enough I can link it into my attacks and can attack faster". It's a skill, but not oner within the realm of the game.

First, try defining skill. Quantitatively. Pretty tough, right?

Here is my method of determining who has more skill:

The person who wins more is more skilled.

That is a quantitative definition that cannot be argued (IE: you can't have an argument about who is more skilled than somebody else) and is not subjective. It is with this definition that we can say that the winner of a tourney was more skilled than the other players, or at least had more skill when playing them.

Obviously, this makes your argument wrong, and to argue back, you will have to use a different definition of skill. However, I don't see how you can because ultimately, the person with more skill will win more often, or else the definition must be wrong.

And what exactly does it mean to "not be in the realm of the game"? It is in the game. Also, it takes about 5 minutes a day of outside training for a week or two before you should be able to get it consistently. That is the easy part. It takes real battle experience to use it effectively though.

I don't really see how things that take some outside training are not "skilled". If you ask me, I think it takes a lot more skill to do ganon's up-air ledgehop onto the stage (something that I still have trouble with) than to shieldgrab.

See above for why you can play well even without wavedashing (though perhaps not at the major tourney level.)

Which reminds me. Quick questoin. If we add all courses(those that aren't tournamnt legal) items, Final Smashes and it being an FFA, how much will WD and L-cancelling help you?

They will help a lot, though the win percentage will go down for the better player simply because these setting entail far more luck.

Also FFA basically makes the best strategy to camp.

Even without camping, I regularly play FFA with items on (healing items off, because although "items are a part of the game" some are too cheap, according to these guys) and I pretty much always win. Granted, I have moved past the point where I am learning to apply these techs and am learning more of the subtle aspects such as spacing and whatnot, but either way, the techs give and advantage.

I play Ice Climbers, Ganon, and Fox. Wavedashes from all sides of the spectrum. I can safely say that I know how to use it, some proof comes from vids in my sig. My luigi, even though I use him sometimes, is not nearly as good as my ganon. Neither is anybody else in the cast besides the names I mentioned above. Yet, almost everybody else has a better wavedash. Further proof of wavedashing's non-brokenness?

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Nice post, psicicle.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Still no one is adressing how powerful the wavedash is. It's always "Come on newb, it's not a big deal at all". It allows you to move mackwards without changing direction while attacking or grabbing, while moving into an egde hog, while also making some characters faster. It's very very very important. Everyone here makes it seem like it's practically nothing. Why do nearly all the pros do it? Try playing as the ICs without wavedashing, hella try to Wobble without wavedashing.

 

[Superstar]

Wavedash may be important, but the thing is that most scrubs [not casuals, scrubs], flame JUST the wavedash, saying that the wavedash is unfair, and attack ONLY the wavedash, even though wavedash is not as powerful as some other techs, namely the shffl [short hop fast fall L-Cancel, which allows you to use aerial attacks quickly without making you vulnerable, key to a good many character's games].

 

[Limey]

I know you're all saying the WD is important, and while i don't care if it stays or goes, all i'm saying is that if it goes, WD-lovers are just gonna have to deal with it. Before it was discovered people played competitively.

This next thing i say will probably be shot down by WD users, but wouldn't it technically take more skill to be an awesome player without using the WD? To be able to beat someone who uses it when you don't, purely by how good a fighter you are? Yes?

 

[greenblob]

I know you're all saying the WD is important, and while i don't care if it stays or goes, all i'm saying is that if it goes, WD-lovers are just gonna have to deal with it. Before it was discovered people played competitively.

This next thing i say will probably be shot down by WD users, but wouldn't it technically take more skill to be an awesome player without using the WD? To be able to beat someone who uses it when you don't, purely by how good a fighter you are? Yes?

People will deal with it, via dash dancing and pivoting.

 

[Superstar]

Of course it would take more skill to be good without the wavedash. However, the ONLY person that good out there is Aniki [he doesn't use wavedash, but isn't a scrub(hopefully, looking at his position)]. If anyone wishes to be good in a tournament, its better off you attempt to learn the wavedash, as no one is that good.

Chances are wavedash will be gone, but I dislike it when people attack it anways. Who knows, maybe there is a way to abuse crawling so it can be used for spacing [hopefully, just dreaming].

Dash Dancing and Pivot can at least partially replace wavedash. Mario works good with pivot. Why is it that his fsmash's sweetspot is at a distance, and all his other attacks are close range. You have to deliberately move away just to KO, so Pivot gets the job down, but its a 1-frame thing... so it wouldn't work well online [harder to pull off online].

 

[NES n00b]

I know you're all saying the WD is important, and while i don't care if it stays or goes, all i'm saying is that if it goes, WD-lovers are just gonna have to deal with it. Before it was discovered people played competitively.

This next thing i say will probably be shot down by WD users, but wouldn't it technically take more skill to be an awesome player without using the WD? To be able to beat someone who uses it when you don't, purely by how good a fighter you are? Yes?

It's like if you made an arbitrary rule to not use a certain move. Does it take more skill to use Ganon without upair? I don't know because it seems like the word "skill" is being thrown out there without a clear cut definition. Just think about it for awhile what it would feel like if you were constrained to not use a specific move while playing (a one you use of course) XD.

 

[greenblob]

Of course it would take more skill to be good without the wavedash. However, the ONLY person that good out there is Aniki [he doesn't use wavedash, but isn't a scrub(hopefully, looking at his position)]. If anyone wishes to be good in a tournament, its better off you attempt to learn the wavedash, as no one is that good.

Chances are wavedash will be gone, but I dislike it when people attack it anways. Who knows, maybe there is a way to abuse crawling so it can be used for spacing [hopefully, just dreaming].

Dash Dancing and Pivot can at least partially replace wavedash. Mario works good with pivot. Why is it that his fsmash's sweetspot is at a distance, and all his other attacks are close range. You have to deliberately move away just to KO, so Pivot gets the job down, but its a 1-frame thing... so it wouldn't work well online [harder to pull off online].

Yes, pivoting is harder (I don't think it's one single frame), but it will replace wavedashing if it's gone. Or at least dash dancing will compensate a bit. Look at Smash 64--no DI, so people mastered smash DI to prevent getting zero-to-death combo'd all the time.

So guess what, "wavedashing is so hard" people, wavedashing actually makes the game easier!

 

[Limey]

But wavedashing isn't a move. It's not as if someone would be taking away a core element to the game, as if they were removing second jumps - something you NEED to actually play. You may think and feel that wavedashing is a core element to your gameplay, but if it's gone, it doesn't stop you from playing the game.

It's an add-on. A little extra. Removing it would be like taking away the topping on your ice cream. People go on about it as if they'd stop eating the ice cream, but they'd eat it.

They'd eat it and ****ing enjoy it.

 

[NES n00b]

But you can play the game without up air. XD

I know Killa-OR doesn't use upair a lot when he plays Ganon but that isn't the point. That is how it would feel to me. I know it wasn't intended and it isn't THAT important except with three characters. I like the tech alot, though. Makes the game more fun to me.

I will still play Brawl, but it would be less fun than if wavedash was still in.

 

[Limey]

I didn't say up air! I said second jumps! If you didn't use a certain move, of course. A move is technically a non-advanced technique.

Second jump is something you use to recover. Without it you'd die at a lot lower a percentage, because you wouldn't be able to get back on.

For argument's sake, say they removed jumps all together. You simply could not play the game.

They remove wavedashing. You can easily still play the game. It's an extra, and add-on technique.

BTW, i'm not saying they should, i'm just setting a scenario where they do remove it.

 

[NES n00b]

I didn't say up air! I said second jumps! If you didn't use a certain move, of course. A move is technically a non-advanced technique.

Second jump is something you use to recover. Without it you'd die at a lot lower a percentage, because you wouldn't be able to get back on.

For argument's sake, say they removed jumps all together. You simply could not play the game.

They remove wavedashing. You can easily still play the game. It's an extra, and add-on technique.

BTW, i'm not saying they should, i'm just setting a scenario where they do remove it.

Oh, but you can still play the game. It would just suck from all the low percentage kills. XD

I did admit it was an extra/unintended tech, but since they kept z-canceling and gave extra depth to Melee after ssb, I would be dissapointed if they took away something that allows for more depth. Do you know what I mean?

 

[konoha107]

I agree with the first post.
Here's my situation with SSBM: I have owned the game since 2003, and played it since a little while after it came out. I never was too good at it. However, I did manage to beat the event matches, get all the characters, and what I thought then was all the trophies (I now realize I was wrong, I have about 4 trophies to get).
This year, my interest in the game was renewed due to all my data being erased due to a glitch in the Wii's handling of third-party memory cards. After a while, I got my data back after I used a backup from my brother's untill-then-lost-memory card. But while I was trying to earn my data back before then, I joined Smashboards, and I have to say it was one of the best desicions I've made in a long time.
A short time after I joined, my best friend told me about a thing called wavedashing. He couldn't do it very well at all. I haven't tried to do it, I might today.
I've never entered any tornaments, so this mostly dosen't apply to me. But I say that I agree with the tornament rules, and if people don't like to play that way, then they don't have to enter. They can start their own dang online Smash communities.

 

[Superstar]

@smash_fan

Have you tried using Wavedash, do you even know what's for? What does it do.

If Wavedash is gone the game is still playable, but like greenblob conveniently pointed out, wavedash makes the game easier. Pivot can do the same job as Wavedashing, oftentimes better in some cases cept for Luigi/Fox/ICs/Falco/Mewtwo, but Pivot is harder to use.

What Pivoting is...

Pivoting/DA DASH: Discovered in the summer of 2004 by Phillybilly, a former member of New York’s Deadly Alliance, Pivoting is a difficult technique to pull off at first. The easiest way to get a sense of the technique is to watch the dash dance of Marth or Sheik. You'll notice that there is a frame during the dash dance that the character seems to be standing upright. This is where the pivoting idea comes in. At that upright frame you may perform any move that you could otherwise perform from the standing position. This could actually be quicker than wavedashing backwards and into an attack with certain characters, where instead you dash back just a bit and pivot into an attack. To pull it off, dash one direction, then quickly tap the opposite direction and perform your attack. The attack has to be performed as your character is pivoting to change his direction.

 

[greenblob]

But wavedashing isn't a move. It's not as if someone would be taking away a core element to the game, as if they were removing second jumps - something you NEED to actually play. You may think and feel that wavedashing is a core element to your gameplay, but if it's gone, it doesn't stop you from playing the game.

It's an add-on. A little extra. Removing it would be like taking away the topping on your ice cream. People go on about it as if they'd stop eating the ice cream, but they'd eat it.

They'd eat it and ****ing enjoy it.

You can say the same with a great number of techniques. Besides, what's wrong with that topping?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Brawl looks like a "Melee 2", basically Melee with a few new things added to it. And that's just fine with me. Airdodging is still in, traction is obviously still in...but wavedashing? I hope so. It's such a natural movement for me, it's second nature. It just adds so much more to the game in terms of options, and wavelanding around Battlefield is too good. But does anyone remember that quick dash thing from the trailers? Some say that will be a WD replacement. It's not like my entire game depends on WD though. I play many characters without wavedashing at all, and others with limited wavedashing.

Of course, I also play SSB64 online, and even though I accidentally try to airdodge, spotdodge, side B and other moves that aren't in SSB, I never accidentally try to wavedash. Weird.

 

[Limey]

Oh, but you can still play the game. It would just suck from all the low percentage kills. XD

I did admit it was an extra/unintended tech, but since they kept z-canceling and gave extra depth to Melee after ssb, I would be dissapointed if they took away something that allows for more depth. Do you know what I mean?

Shut it, haha! You know what i'm getting at!

And yeah, of course i know. I'm mainly addressing my posts to the people who swear they'd boycott Brawl if wavedashing were removed. You're one of the normal people who say that if it were gone you'd still play.

One thing i'll say though, is that I know you think you'd have less fun with it gone, which may very well be true. But i think that we should all approach this game as what it is. A new one. No preconceived notions of whether you'll enjoy it because of this or that. Actually find out for yourself. Pick it up as a new player, and learn how to play Brawl from scratch.


EDIT - Superstar, i have tried using it, but then i realised the complete pointlessness of it because i don't play in tourneys. There aren't any around my area. If there were, i'd probably join, and learn all the ATs. Remember that i'm not saying that i think it should be removed, i'm just saying that it might be, and that people shouldn't overreact if it is gone. Loads of people have said that it makes the game easier, but liek i just said in my post, that applies to Melee. What if they keep it in because the programmers realised about it and make it complicated and awkward? That's a possibility.

All i'm saying is that you don't need it.

Greenblob, i know you could say that about a load of techniques, but the same applies. To play the core Smash Bros game - fight opponent, raise their damage meter, smash them off the side to win - you don't need the techniques. I know they do make them more fun, but you've got to remember that i'm only talking in reference to one of them, the one that people seem to be worrying the most abot.

There's nothing wrong with the topping, either, it's just that Sakurai may not let you have it this time round, and if he doesn't people need to remember that there's a ****ing tasty ice-cream underneath.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Brawl's a different game. There are gonna be different features, etc. We're probably all gonna have to re-learn how to play.

I disagree. Like I said, Brawl looks like "Melee 2" if you know what I mean. SHFFLing and similar techs are likely to be in. Heck, I just started playing SSB64 online yesterday, and I already win over half my matches. And I started from scratch. I just used what I know from Melee and applied it to SSB. Edgehopped aerials, up B out of shield, DJC, aerial lag cancel etc is in both games and I found that common ground. Trust me, even if Brawl is way different from Melee (which I doubt), we will be able to use out Melee knowledge to get a headstart on Brawl.

 

[greenblob]

I don't think that anyone here will boycott Brawl over wavedashing, whether they want it in or not.

 

[Rikka]

Wavedashing is something that makes the competitive side of the game deeper. There are many things that do that. It won't ruin the game if it's gone. But depending on the reason it's taken out, it could be another way of saying, "We don't want a game where skill comes out on top."

 

[Limey]

I disagree. Like I said, Brawl looks like "Melee 2" if you know what I mean. SHFFLing and similar techs are likely to be in. Heck, I just started playing SSB64 online yesterday, and I already win over half my matches. And I started from scratch. I just used what I know from Melee and applied it to SSB. Edgehopped aerials, up B out of shield, DJC, aerial lag cancel etc is in both games and I found that common ground. Trust me, even if Brawl is way different from Melee (which I doubt), we will be able to use out Melee knowledge to get a headstart on Brawl.

Maybe so, but there will undoubtedly be features that are brand new. Things you'll have to learn from scratch. That spike where you jump off the other characters' head, for example. Wavedashing being gone is another one, if it happens.

I don't think that anyone here will boycott Brawl over wavedashing, whether they want it in or not.

I hope not. It'd be a shame.

 

[NES n00b]

Every conversation leads to dicussion on wavedashing. Kind of like every CF move leads into knee. True fax.

I think we should get back to stage discussion. Most of them look good for tourney play besides maybe Delfino Plaza with the walk off edges, Rumble Falls (if the speed is too fast), and Bridge of Eldin for so many reasons. The others might have problems too, but I think that most of the stages seem fine.

 

[Superstar]

LMAO, that's not the original subject. The original discussion is about competitive play in general for the people who know nothing about it and yet wish to complain about stuff they don't know. That's another thread.

If Wavedashing is gone, the majority of players will deal, but if all advanced techs are gone, ALL OF THEM, platform dropping, L-Cancel, SHFFLing, Pivoting, every single one in the book, I will still get Brawl, but I will be so downright disappointed that I will never get another Nintendo game again. All my waiting for naught.

 

[Rikka]

Don't lie, you'll buy another Nintendo game. Just not another Smash. Maybe.

Even if they're all gone, we will discover more. It'll still say something about Nintendo's interests. Not a good thing.

 

[greenblob]

Yeah, I don't mind if Brawl turns out to be a completely different game than Melee, but yeah, if the strip it of all depth, then it'll be the biggest disappointment of the year.

 

[Superstar]

Possibly, but I know it will at least a few years before I buy another game in general [even with Smash, I don't think I'll buy another game next year, Mario Kart Wii does not interest me at all, as I get older I seem to like hardcore games more and more, casual games are too boring for me now].

Thing is, Brawl has to at least keep a good amount of techniques. Not all will make it, but a good amount should stay. Hopefully this Footstool jump won't be useless [only use looks to be edgeguarding/teams]. And yes, it WOULD be the biggest disappointment of the year, games with depth are the ones that last the most [even in casual play the game appears to have some depth, though not that much].

 

[The Hypnotist]

Wavedash may be important, but the thing is that most scrubs [not casuals, scrubs], flame JUST the wavedash, saying that the wavedash is unfair, and attack ONLY the wavedash, even though wavedash is not as powerful as some other techs, namely the shffl [short hop fast fall L-Cancel, which allows you to use aerial attacks quickly without making you vulnerable, key to a good many character's games].

Well... I'm just saying if they attack the wavedash... it's VERY important, and very powerful. So they kinda have a right to say it's "over powereed" even if they don't even know what it does, because it is VERY VERY important.

 

[Superstar]

However, flaming something you know nothing about, and has never truely been used against you is stupid, I know Wavedash is important, but many people fear the wavedash and the wavedash alone, that's where the weirdness comes in, even though there are stuff that packs more usefullness.

 

[GaryCXJk]

I've seen some wavedashing movies on YouTube, and to be honnest, although it's a kind of cool trick, I feel it can only help you so much. I mean, all you can do is increase your character's speed, which allows you to escape, which only helps you on big stages. Since big stages are banned because of the obvious camping issues, that problem is eliminated. The only thing not being eliminated is the in the opening post named flaws in your opponent's play. But it's only even if you spot these flaws.

Seriously, even if you can wavedash, it won't help you much if you're not trained to beat your opponent. Wavedashing will never KO your opponent, unless you mean the countless suicides of frustrated gamers who don't know jack about wavedashing.

And that's coming from someone who refuses to learn wavedashing.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ohCN6KFmvNY

It helps if you actually know what you're talking about >____>

 

[Superstar]

Gary seems to be correct, in one aspect. Wavedashing has many uses though, however if you are not trained to win in the other aspects you WILL lose. Wavedash is only one trick, you need them all, and be good with them, to win.

Wavedash is excellent for spacing, disrupting your opponent, edgehogging, and with Luigi and one of Mario's and Marth's moves, ground to air synergy. It's also good to create mobile shields to beat projectile spam, and to reach in incase someone stopped your shieldgrab.

Wavedashing never KO's on its own, but it helps.

 

[Psychoace]

I've seen some wavedashing movies on YouTube, and to be honnest, although it's a kind of cool trick, I feel it can only help you so much. I mean, all you can do is increase your character's speed, which allows you to escape, which only helps you on big stages. Since big stages are banned because of the obvious camping issues, that problem is eliminated. The only thing not being eliminated is the in the opening post named flaws in your opponent's play. But it's only even if you spot these flaws.

Seriously, even if you can wavedash, it won't help you much if you're not trained to beat your opponent. Wavedashing will never KO your opponent, unless you mean the countless suicides of frustrated gamers who don't know jack about wavedashing.

And that's coming from someone who refuses to learn wavedashing.

Wavedash taunt with luigi while someone is holding onto the edge.

 

[CStrife187]

I think that the main reason people overrate wavedashing is because they really don't know how good people are at this game. People who didn't make it past the pools at FC:D could probably still beat 99% of the wavedash haters without actually wavedashing. People like ChuDat can actually beat many "Pro" smashers while only using one hand.

Please stop attributing everyone's success to the wavedash. It doesn't make them better, it just gives them a flashy, yet very situational tool to use in their game. Any technique, advanced or not, used out of context will just make you lose more.

 

[TheZizz]

Concerning the "online will be all serious business" argument. Yes, for tourney players learning to apply the advanced techniques is a great experience, but for people who have no desire to it would be nothing less than a monumental waste of time.

After all, playing to win is at all times counter-productive, according to the great Sirlin himself.

And if it turns out that learning all the advanced techs becomes a prerequisite to enjoying the online experience, then yes I think the argument is a valid one. Sure, in theory you can play how you want, ideally there are options that cater to everybody, but this world is neither theoretical or ideal.

The point made about L-cancelling is also interesting. But there is one conceivable use for a lack of L-cancelling, and that is to trick your opponent into thinking you suck. It only works once though!

 

[CStrife187]

@TheZizz


lol at that L-cancel mindgame. It's called "sandbagging" when you play worse than you normally would against players when nothing or little money is on the line, and then play them full throttle for high stakes for the big win overall.

e.g. I play a falco player as G&W in a $5 money match, and lose (surprise, surprise). I then challenge them to a $20 money match falco v. peach, and they accept because they "know I suck. I then win and take their $$

I think it's sort of an a$$hole thing to do, but it's pretty common.

 

[greenblob]

Before posting any more replies, I recommend to everyone who hasn't already done so to take a look at the [wiki]wavedashing[/wiki] Smashwiki page.