Reality Check: Items, Levels, & Adv Techs

[slikvik]

Again, like I ask, ddid they really. It's quite possble they didn't know about it. Yes, it's possible. I don't think many knew about it till Melee entered the competative seen. That, or it was hard to fix and wes left in.

It is not possible that the developer did not know about wave-dashing. Any aerial attacks landing frames are reduced by half. So if an attack has 20 frames of lag, l-cancelling reduces it to 10. If it were 16 frames of lag, l-cancelling reduces it to 8. This is something that had to programmed in, not a glitch

 

[Anther]

What's the point of playing around the world if you don't want to get better SmashChu...
you can play with the same group of online folk and it should be more fun... its a lot more fun playing games of luck with the same group as opposed to a random few everytime..

I've never really played an online game hoping not to get better at it, and getting beat was always motivation to try to learn something new... dunno, it's a weird notion to me. Wanting to play people from all over the world but at the same time not wanting to get good at the game...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

If you go online, casual player or not, you're trying to win. Have fun, yes, but you're trying to win. Knowing adv techs isn't cheating, especially when they aren't glitches. Your point is that it's unfair, but it's not. Look at the Poke games. Tell the competitive people they have an unfair advantage over others because they EV train. They'll laugh at you all day. Same thing here.

I've really wanted to say this for a long time.

Here goes:

BOOM! HEADSHOT!

Rikka, you've illustrated a good point.

Sure, you go online with the intent of playing a game just for s's and g's, but ultimately, you're in it to win it. Nobody goes to a contest with the intent of placing last (unless they're ******* around). I went to many Smash tourneys in my day and while I advocate going for the sake of the social aspect of it I also go because I want to win and be (kind of) respected by my peers. Plain and simple. I want to win, and even my attitude towards losing (which is laissez-faire at best because I enjoy the learning experience that comes with losing) does not override my desire to win. Why? It's because multiplayer games are designed to be elaborate pissing contests; no matter what you say or do, nothing will change this fact. It's the same with any other sport on the face of the planet. One team (or person) competes against the other to see who is better.

Advanced techniques are perfectly fair. How are they not? They're accessible to everybody and can be easily learned. As Eaode pointed out, just because a non-wavedasher gets his *** handed to him on a silver platter by somebody who can wavedash does not automatically make the gulf between skill and non-skill impossible to cross. The non-wavedasher can easily learn how to wavedash in order to keep up, assuming they can swallow their pride and pony up the time it takes to learn the technique. Or, you know, it's possible that they can learn other means of countering wavedashing that involve the other advanced techs. The possibilities are pretty much endless here.

Yes, knowledge is power. If you know more, of course you should have an advantage. How is being better at the game because you know more about it not fair?

People will learn...quickly. And they will adjust. People deserve to lose if they don't put some time into practicing the game. In your scenario, the players weren't equal because one had practiced more than the other.

GreenBlob rounds out the point I made in my second paragraph very nicely. Knowledge is power, even on a fundamental level. Luck and perseverance will not always save your happy ***; most of the time, it boils down to what you know and how to apply it. It's not "cheap" when you are knowledgeable about something and somebody else isn't; it's called an "advantage," leverage that you have over your opponent. Even the most casual of players exploit this trait all of the time. One guy knows, bare-bones, that his character's move is better than the other guys. Therefore, he is going to use it to the best of his ability.

Grim also paints a very good picture of the ever-evolving multiplayer scene of as well (see underlined text). If Brawl is online, then the doors to advanced techniques and other goodness are going to be thrown right off of their bloody hinges. After being exposed to the seasoned Smash veterans, people are going to learn quickly. They're going to adjust. Take a look at just about any game with a huge multiplayer base. Those who have a desire to get better always take cues from those that have preceded them and adopted their techniques. Some good examples of this are the Halo games. Each game is rich with techniques and nuances discovered by others to help enhance their gameplay. Although a few select people hoarded the knowledge from their peers for a little while, it didn't stay that way. As with everything on the internet, it spread like wildfire. Soon, it became the basis of the community---hardcore or not. If you didn't learn the basics, you would soon be teabagged incessantly by those who did. Fortunately, though, it is quite easy to learn the ropes; things have already been put into place for you to learn. Like Smash, Halo has a thriving community dedicated to bringing knowledge to the less informed (although the Smash Community is infinitely better at dispersing it).

So, yeah. I respect your opinion SmashChu, but I don't agree with it.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Superstar]

Why don't these people you're talking about join a FFA then?

Also, it sounds like you think average Nsider members way of playing will be the minority. So you're screwing over the majority of players for the minority.

Heh heh, the way Smashu is talking it does sound like NSiders will be the minority, so he is screwing up the game. However, since the techs are so "hard", competitive players will be a minority, so Smashu wouldn't have a problem if the techs stay in. If you play for fun it doesn't matter if you lose.

Also, slik, you meant L-Cancel didn't you...

Smooth, very smooth, great post Smooth Criminal.

 

[maxpower1227]

L-canceling is the developers way of rewarding players who truly wish to master the game. Why take it out. Spacing and smart play are important, but l-cancelling makes the game a bit more complex. It creates more options and strategy. Without it, deep play would amount to who gets the most shield grabs in one match. Why take it out. The developers clearly felt it wasn't gamebreaking, since they programmed it in the game to reduce landing lag by half the frames

How does it create "more options"? Players never have to make a choice whether or not to L-cancel. It's something that should ALWAYS be done, which was BigRick's entire point.

 

[SmashChu]

^^Well SmashChu if they can't WaveDash they don't have to learn it...

If they're TRULY PLAYING FOR FUN they can still play and do their best, it won't matter if they lose.

If they don't and start complain about how WD is unfair, this is a scrubbish attitude.

I got friends that can't WD and they still want to play against me and they don't care if I can wavedash...

And btw, please believe that l-canceling was programmed in this game. It is common FACT. People have explored the game code with Action Replay, that's why we know.

First, thanks for feilding my question. Everyone else just petty said it was. But, you do bring up a good point. Will they care. I fwear that more people will do it to the point where fun is thrown to the side for winniing. It's not unlikely. But, still, who know. I like your thinking as it seems you finally indersrtand where I'm coming from.

A a little speechless at the moment so I'll jsut say this. It is questionable as your friends probobly do know what it is, but to some, it will be frustrating that they got beat by what they feel is a glitch in the game. As I ssaid, it's too keep online fun, and that everyone is persuing getting better, not just trying to learn a techique, which is what mario Kart DS has become.

Why don't these people you're talking about join a FFA then?

Well, the only thing is, do tournamnts actually fo FFAs. If they can work in teams, then why not FFAs. I would care to know.

Also, it sounds like you think average Nsider members way of playing will be the minority. So you're screwing over the majority of players for the minority.

No, the Nsider will be the majority. But, in onlinme it won't take long for people to try and get the upper hand. Then those who don't know what the F is going on will be at a disadvantage.

 

[Superstar]

I understand BigRicks point. Although I would like L-Cancelling to be something available to those who work harder, I see his point. L-Cancelling is the most like snaking. Its weird, so many people, from being stupid, say wavedashing is an uber cheap technique, when L-Cancel is more powerful. It might have been from the nature of the L-Cancel itself.

I still think L-Cancel will be implemented [makes playing Fox more difficult as well], mainly from tradition and to reward reflexive players [and I just like it anyways], but I understand if they would make it automatic. Wavedash I hope stays, it rewards intelligence rather than reflex, and that's how a tech SHOULD be.

BigRick's point was better. You suggested getting rid of L-Cancel cause its cheap, cause its a glitch, and its "unfair". BigRick said it's because it rewards reflex rather than intelligence, and suggested it automatic rather than removing it.

FFA's have triple teaming, combos are more difficult to pull off cause you are double teamed at times, FFA's are not supported in most reasonable tournaments. Also, less people will use techs in Smash than snaking in MKDS, so you wouldn't have a problem. And when you said that online will be too competitive it sounds like you are saying that no techs is the majority.

 

[slikvik]

How does it create "more options"? Players never have to make a choice whether or not to L-cancel. It's something that should ALWAYS be done, which was BigRick's entire point.

Ok, and whats wrong with it ALWAYS having to be done. Timing is a skill

I do understand BigRick's post and I'm defending why I think the developers decided to include l-cancelling

 

[Anther]

hmm.. for some reason the deeper I get into competitive smash the more fun it gets to try to win x_X.

No one gets beat by wavedashing... They get beat cause they run into more of the other guys attacks.

FFA's don't work tourney style. If they're used to eliminate the person that comes in last, what if everytime the best player in the world comes to the tournament, the other 3 attack only him?... it's silly =x.


And Slik, it is pretty pointless in the whole mental aspect of the game, especially when you start doing it automatically, it's just purely technical, because there's never a reason not to do it.

 

[Eaode]

I'm not trying to change how tournamnts are played. Again, I feel people see key words. Wavedashing. Cheating. In tournamnts, I have no problem. They are for hardcore players who they are targeted too. But, I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the smaash player who post on Nsiders and wants Shadow in Brawl. I speak of him. He wan'ts online with items and 4vs. I feel these techniques will hurt his fun. I know theirs a lot of playes who would rather not have this. They don't want some competative player to come in and use advance tech and lose miserably.



Not everyone can learn. Again, remember I talk of online, where some people may not be as hardcore as you. It's easy for you, but is it easy for them. Not really. It takes a good deal of practice to use.

so now we should sacrifice what makes the game faster, more open and more nejoyable because people don't want to learn how to be good?

But, that's not the point. You can play 4 stock, no items on a nutural course. Play as you want. I attack the techs becuase I feel they will ruin the fun for everyone else. I made a post ealier about just why. Not everyone dedicated them selves to Smash. I ****ing love the game, but I won't be learning a bunch of crazy techs. just to have fun. Am I the only one, know. Not everyone is as hardcore as you. Tghey just want to hop online and play smash all over the world. That's all. Their rules are different from your.

1) Melee was fun for everyone, techs or not.

2)why not learn the techs? you have no reason not to. you can still have fun while in the process of learning them. and in the end they will make the game so much more enjoyable for you.

3) that's why the matches are customizable. Do you think a competitive player would go NEAR a game with 4 players with items on high?

Again, like I ask, ddid they really. It's quite possble they didn't know about it. Yes, it's possible. I don't think many knew about it till Melee entered the competative seen. That, or it was hard to fix and wes left in.


If I started a flame war, I apoligize. I'm not trying to flame the way you play. I ssay these becuase it's "for the greater good" type thing. It's for evertyone who plays smash. You'll be able to play it with these techs. or not. (Whoa whoa whoa. they can play WITHOUT the techs. you see if the techs are left in, you can fight wothout them, and have a reaaaaally great time. but if the techs are left out, it makes the game very shallow, closed in and hurt everyone who want to play the game to it's fullest.)I only attack those two becuaser they are not in the normal realm of the game. This like croutch cancle and edgehoggging are ok. If someone get's beat by it they got beat by something they saw and one they is int he normal rule of the game(which they can learn themselves and put it to good use).

Now, i respect your opinion. But, to say omnly the casual people are statring the flame wars the Eaode is fanning the flames.


Your point

What? you said something completely stupid and obvious. it was funny. "they dont expect it unless they know it exists" or something. COME ON. thats hilarious.


Again, so me your proff. How do you know they programmed it into the game. their is no animation for it and it works like a glitch. Chances are, they didn't know about it. Smash shipped 5million worlwide but at that time the competative community was small. It's very possible it didn't get noticed. Again, show me your proff. All you said is "OH, it sooooo was"

l cancelling requires a specific button press in a short time window and after it is done, it doesn't remove the lag, like in smash 64. it actually SHORTENS the lag time to HALF of what it originally was. In 64 it was prolly a glitch with the shield overriding your lag, but in melee, it actually did that specific act of cut it in half. how would that be an accident?


Exactly. They didn't mean for it to be used that way. I arrest my case. That gives you an advantage. How is someone suppose to counter something that wasn't even ment to be there.


Read my later post. I've said this like 50 times. It's for the purpose of online. So that it won;t get ***** by these. If left in, it will become a focal poitn of the game and take away from it. It's happened before.

.... usually the focal point of the game is to space properly, and apply your character's moves at the right time. WD just adds to your mobility. you want to take it out so people "dont get *****", what the hell? you said you understand that WD =/= instant win. So when they lose it was because the player was more skilled than them.


You understand that if someone gets betten online with someone who is wavedashing, they aren't going to know what it freakin' is. You fail to be able to put your self in others shoes. In what they would see. They would see Fox is magically sliding. Wavedashing's commands are so complicated for what it is that it would be unable to firgure out by the normal player. Ever think about that. Oh, of course you didn't. Your to busy with the fact that someone doesn't agree with your playing style and you go into a hissy fit.

Waavedashing, you also forget, requires a lot more control and practice then snaking. I've tried it. I can't do it. You happy? Just becuase you cvan do it, and found it easy, doesn't mean everyone will. Why should out online experience be hampered just becuase YOU obsess yourself with the game, and do it for the sole purpose of winning. While, yes you always want to win, but doing a tech. outside the realm of the game just to win makes you competative to where you just want to kill n00bs all day. You don't care about fun, or the fact your killing your own game by driving everyone else out.

Why should it be DUMBED DOWN just because YOU have trouble with something? just because people find it hard? that's not a real reason.

Now, people, I'm talking about ONLINE. Online, only. So that everyone can haver a good time. Becuase, guess what. You may not like it, but some would rather play the game then have to learn some crazy technique to compete. Some do find these hard to do. Some don't want to play like that. There are other peoiple in the world. Some of you should look outside the box. Theres a wideworld out there.

They don't have to. If they want to, to better expand they're game, thats great, but you need to realize that competitive players are the extreme minority and matches with us involved will be very very rare.

my responses are in red

 

[KratosAurion192]

I think this is all just an argument of weather or not WDing, L-canceling among other things are glitches. If nintendo feels that anything is a glitch, it will be patched. If you can still WD in SSBB, then it will be deemed a strategy or a technique, not a glitch.

If anything is going to stay in...then nintendo better make seperate sections, like one for tournament legal settings, and then other rooms for teams and FFAs and stuff...That way pros don't have to run into every little 4 year old on the face of the planet who can barly play the game... and so that little kid can still enjoy the game...

 

[SmashChu]

Whilee this isn't targeted at me, I'll just play devil advocate

Advanced techniques are perfectly fair. How are they not? They're accessible to everybody and can be easily learned. As Eaode pointed out, just because a non-wavedasher gets his *** handed to him on a silver platter by somebody who can wavedash does not automatically make the gulf between skill and non-skill impossible to cross. The non-wavedasher can easily learn how to wavedash in order to keep up, assuming they can swallow their pride and pony up the time it takes to learn the technique. Or, you know, it's possible that they can learn other means of countering wavedashing that involve the other advanced techs. The possibilities are pretty much endless here.

They aren't fair becuase they knowlegda is not known by everyone. Again, as I said, it's not as easy as you think, and you should relize that not everyone has the ability to do that nor the disire. Of course at tournamnts it's fine, but not over the internet where you don't know whats going on. Countering though. This is true.

GreenBlob rounds out the point I made in my second paragraph very nicely. Knowledge is power, even on a fundamental level. Luck and perseverance will not always save your happy ***; most of the time, it boils down to what you know and how to apply it. It's not "cheap" when you are knowledgeable about something and somebody else isn't; it's called an "advantage," leverage that you have over your opponent. Even the most casual of players exploit this trait all of the time. One guy knows, bare-bones, that his character's move is better than the other guys. Therefore, he is going to use it to the best of his ability.

But, and advatge can be cheap. If you know the person doesn't know about it at all then it is definatly cheap. An "ace up the sleave isn't fair, but it's knowledge. You essentualy are using knowledge.
The character thing, is a bit different. He knows the moves are better, but at the same time the other player knows the same thing. If he is beat by the better moves, he knows what to watch out for. But, with wavedashing, what is it but someone slidinmg accros the groundd. Making it harder to know what it was.

Grim also paints a very good picture of the ever-evolving multiplayer scene of as well (see underlined text). If Brawl is online, then the doors to advanced techniques and other goodness are going to be thrown right off of their bloody hinges. After being exposed to the seasoned Smash veterans, people are going to learn quickly. They're going to adjust. Take a look at just about any game with a huge multiplayer base. Those who have a desire to get better always take cues from those that have preceded them and adopted their techniques. Some good examples of this are the Halo games. Each game is rich with techniques and nuances discovered by others to help enhance their gameplay. Although a few select people hoarded the knowledge from their peers for a little while, it didn't stay that way. As with everything on the internet, it spread like wildfire. Soon, it became the basis of the community---hardcore or not. If you didn't learn the basics, you would soon be teabagged incessantly by those who did. Fortunately, though, it is quite easy to learn the ropes; things have already been put into place for you to learn. Like Smash, Halo has a thriving community dedicated to bringing knowledge to the less informed (although the Smash Community is infinitely better at dispersing it).

But, just with your Halo example, it works in reverse. In the Halo 3 beta BXR, a prodoment glitch was taken out. The idea was to remove the overly competative tricks and make the game more accessable. While people will be able to find these out it will still be a thorn in the side for some. The idea is to just stress normal fun with friends rather then over competativeness. With a friend, you try to win, but want to have a good time. In Halo 2(but, this may just be Xbox live) people are more into ranting and raving and trying to win to the point of insainity.

So, yeah. I respect your opinion SmashChu, but I don't agree with it.

Smooth Criminal

(....maybe it was targeted at me)

Same, but it's OK. You brought up a good point.

 

[Anther]

I just don't think online gaming is for certain people XD.

 

[Eaode]

"They aren't fair becuase they knowlegda is not known by everyone. Again, as I said, it's not as easy as you think, and you should relize that not everyone has the ability to do that nor the disire. Of course at tournamnts it's fine, but not over the internet where you don't know whats going on. Countering though. This is true."

what someone knows or doesn't know is completely subjective. I have a friend who had the game for 5 weeks and didnt know you were supposed to use Up-B to recover.

What you're sugesting is dumbing down the game so people dont have to practice much to get better. when less practice is required it means the game is shallow.

And if someone is truly left bewildered by WD and don't know what it is, tey can look u strategies for Brawl online. The "unknown" scenario you said could also be applied to teching. its some crazy sparks and the person starts rolling, and it gives no indication about what to do. its not in te manual or How To Play either.

 

[CutMet]

You know how to solve online play. Play with others who play like you, hopefully there is a friend list or something on Brawl, that way you can play with people who play like you.

 

[BigRick]

But, just with your Halo example, it works in reverse. In the Halo 3 beta BXR, a prodoment glitch was taken out. The idea was to remove the overly competative tricks and make the game more accessable. While people will be able to find these out it will still be a thorn in the side for some. The idea is to just stress normal fun with friends rather then over competativeness. With a friend, you try to win, but want to have a good time. In Halo 2(but, this may just be Xbox live) people are more into ranting and raving and trying to win to the point of insainity.

Hmm I have no problem with Halo 2's BXR, since ppl are simply exploiting the glitch...

However, the reason why Bungie probably took it out of Halo 3 is probably because BXRing and related tricks require skill, but it's simply not the skill that Bungie wants to emphasize. Bungie wanted Halo 3 to emphasize on other skills, like teamwork, or aiming.

 

[BigRick]

You know how to solve online play. Play with others who play like you, hopefully there is a friend list or something on Brawl, that way you can play with people who play like you.

This is not the answer... because you won't be playing the same game. Run away from the REAL game (the game that has exploits in it) and the only thing that will happen is that the gap will get much more bigger between the two groups.

 

[Eaode]

I just got an Idea. and it's a good one too.



SmashChu, be aware that I'm not trying to offend you in any way or trying to embarrass you or anything. But honestly, why don't you try learning advanced techs. A lot of your thoughts seem to spread from a misunderstanding of them. You've got nothing to lose, just learn them, it won't prohibit your fun at all, and by the end, you will have a new and full understanding of them.


by the way....

http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/

 

[slikvik]

Eaode is amazing. I especially like how he changes his sig every post he makes

 

[Superstar]

You know he won't learn the advanced techs, he's a casual player, its not in his blood to be overely competitive. What I don't like is when people debate without knowing what they are or how they TRUELY influence the game.

We shouldn't tell HIM how to play, but he shouldn't be trying to diminish the thing that makes a game have depth and last.

 

[BigRick]

What he should do instead is accept the fact that if he's not willing to practice, then he shouldn't complain if there's better people than him...

You don't have to be good at Smash Bros... there are many more things in life, you could be good at Sports instead... or a good musician, y'know?

 

[CutMet]

This is not the answer... because you won't be playing the same game. Run away from the REAL game (the game that has exploits in it) and the only thing that will happen is that the gap will get much more bigger between the two groups.

Well I was just throwing an idea out, I know some of my friends know about advanced tatics but would rather play with items in FFA's. So they don't want to improve they just want to play casually.

 

[Anther]

yeah... in Starcraft it never bothered me that people were in 4v4 MoneyMap games with unlimited resources and such... it won't be any different for smash if they go beyond the search for random game feature nintendo is so fond of...

Occasionally a good player will infiltrate one of those games and own it up, but majority of the time you'll have fun. :]

I think the only argument that consistently comes up.. is someone that doesn't want to learn wants to be considered good =x.

 

[Rikka]

Your saying that they aren't like us, they'll find the advance techs hard to learn. Your right, they probably will. I think they're hard to learn, I'm still learning them, and those who have learned them will probably agree. So because we're willing to learn them and they aren't, we're cheaters and they should be taken out?

 

[Limey]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but i wanted to say something before i finish reading it.

I personally think that the reason 'casual' players speak out against tourney rules so badly is because of the utter disgust tourney players seem to have towards casual players.

I've been away from these boards for a long time, and never before has there been such a rivalry between the two types of players. I've only really noticed tourney players insulting casuals. Calling us stupid things like 'n00bs' and 'losers'. Granted, i'm 100% positive it's been vice-versa, too, but i've only really noticed it the other way.

It's like walking through an airport and being told by someone representing a different set of beliefs that your set of beliefs are wrong and how you should change to theirs. It's just a case of '**** off'.

I don't give a **** how people play. It's not as if tourney players batter down my door and try turning items off, and i'm not gonna go sabotaging a tournament because they aren't using Pokeballs, but these debates are absolutely pointless.

Both sides have good points which have made me go "good point", but ultimately it's all a waste of time. It's like trying to convince a member of the KKK that black people are the same as everyone else.

 

[Rikka]

You always notice the other sides insults more than your own.

But yeah, they're are competitive people who insult casuals, and they're are casuals who think we're misguided fools. Play however you want, I'm fine with that. Just don't tell others how to play.

 

[Yellow Mage]

While I appreciate your comments on casual versus tournament, you forgot to consider those people who want to play at the tournament level, but are physically unable: as in, they don't have anybody to play and improve against.

There are no tournaments in my area, at least that I know of.

I can hardly make any use of the Wavedash.

Even more, the only person who -will- play against me refuses to do it under the tournament style rules. Either that, or refuses to play at all.

So, this is kind of why tournament play ruins it for me: not because I want to play on Icicle Mountain or allow rampant Item spawns, but because I HAVE to.

That's the thing I have against tournaments: they're so exclusionary, and you can only reach that sort of level of skill if you're priveleged enough to have one in your area! And THAT'S what's unfair about Tournaments for me: everybody else gets to improve thier playing skills, while those who can't get to tournaments are left in the dust.



Oh, and, also, they made me develop a servere hatred of space furries: how on Earth anybody could play as them is beyond me in the first place, because it has always been difficult for me, the way they feel, but what insane stuff is done with them . . . seriously, don't get me started.

Ever since I was first at a tournament (the only one that was in my area, now defunct), I now even have trouble beating the Level 9 computer Fox/Falco . . . and they fill me with so much wrath, the comfortable smirks on thier muzzle and beak . . .

 

[Formless]

People need to realize that fighting games always have some kind of unintended technique discovered by advanced player. It happens in Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Marvel vs. Capcom, Tekken, you name it as long as the game has some initial depth.

About the tournament skill gap, I think online should fix that well as long as theres some good matchmaking protocols.

 

[Superstar]

Actually, smash_fan, I notce it the other way around, casual players telling tournament players that their way of playing is "unfair" and stupid, and then tournament players call them scrubs for having that mindset [a scrub =/= noob, I've seen some intelligent casuals around, they are no scrubs].

The play to win article that Eoade posted tells what a scrub really is.

Although I HAVE seen some elitist comments, I tend to see more scrub comments, they just seem more common, probably cause this is the Brawl boards].

 

[Rikka]

While I appreciate your comments on casual versus tournament, you forgot to consider those people who want to play at the tournament level, but are physically unable: as in, they don't have anybody to play and improve against.

There are no tournaments in my area, at least that I know of.

Oh, and, also, they made me develop a servere hatred of space furries: how on Earth anybody could play as them is beyond me in the first place, because it has always been difficult for me, the way they feel, but what insane stuff is done with them . . . seriously, don't get me started.

Yo, welcome to the club

 

[Bassoonist]

Actually, smash_fan, I notce it the other way around, casual players telling tournament players that their way of playing is "unfair" and stupid, and then tournament players call them scrubs for having that mindset [a scrub =/= noob, I've seen some intelligent casuals around, they are no scrubs].

The play to win article that Eoade posted tells what a scrub really is.

Although I HAVE seen some elitist comments, I tend to see more scrub comments, they just seem more common, probably cause this is the Brawl boards].

Smash_fan noted that there are casuals that are insulting the tournament players.

"Granted, i'm 100% positive it's been vice-versa, too, but i've only really noticed it the other way."

However tournament players seem to have a bit of arrogance, and they think they're all out "superior" to anybody that plays in any other way. Especially those saying that if you don't play their way you're not allowed on this forum. >_>

I have seen some stupid comments by casual players I haven't seen much of "Get off this forum, because you're a loser and don't play by the rules!"

 

[Limey]

Actually, smash_fan, I notce it the other way around, casual players telling tournament players that their way of playing is "unfair" and stupid, and then tournament players call them scrubs for having that mindset [a scrub =/= noob, I've seen some intelligent casuals around, they are no scrubs].

The play to win article that Eoade posted tells what a scrub really is.

Although I HAVE seen some elitist comments, I tend to see more scrub comments, they just seem more common, probably cause this is the Brawl boards].

Yeah, like i said, i'm 100% certain that it happens on both sides of the spectrum. Maybe i have noticed it more towards casual players because i am one, but at the same time that doesn't negate the pettiness of either side. Back when there was less rivalry between two types of players on the boards i never once thought to myself that tourney players were wrong. I just never, ever thought about it. This whole bull**** argument had to start somewhere.

Also, something i want to add. While i'm neutral in this argument, i do understand where SmashChu is coming from, and no, it's not because i'm "on his side" or a casual player myself.

Smash online will be about fun. Some people have fun playing casual, some tourney style. But the bottom line is this. Smash Bros is not a sport. You will have competitive matches online with no items and so on, but what if the online scene becomes dominated with tourney players. Some guy new to the game, or someone who plays causally, logs on to have a fun match, and is wiped out by someone who's using advanced techniques etc. Like i said, Smash Bros is about fun, but what if it does get overly competitive?

You don't see a random guy getting into a boxing ring with a pro because they would be destroyed. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to online play.

The best option would be for matched to be determined by style, i.e. how you want to play. That way you'd never have some guy signing online to have a wacky match filled with bob-ombs and star rods completely obliterated because he walked into a tourney rules battle with a mega pro.

 

[greenblob]

I lost at Scrabble the other day because my friend knew a word that I didn't. ZOMG HE CHEATZORZ!!!

 

[Jigglymaster]

You guys do know that Brawl's online will just be a friend code thing. Where you have to get the persons friend code to play. So if your friend went online he wouldn't be running into some random pros.

 

[Rikka]

Hopefully you'll be able to set up matches, and their will be a list of set matches to choose from.
Have the match makers be able to choose number of players, items, ect. And if it turns out the majority are tourney style matches, that just means the majority want to play tourney style.

 

[maxpower1227]

I lost at Scrabble the other day because my friend knew a word that I didn't. ZOMG HE CHEATZORZ!!!

I lost a game to someone who has an inferior vocabulary to my own because he got lucky with the letters he drew. WTFHAX

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Lol, all threads like this just prove that people who can't WD think it makes the game less fun, and people who can don't.

The thing is, that would mean that the people who can WD have a better point of view, as they have experienced the game before and after they have learned to use it, so have a less distorted view. People who can't WD have no idea how many possibilities it opens, how much depth it adds to the game and therefore will have arguments more likely to be obscured by reasons other than fact.

Same can be said for all advanced techs.

 

[Superstar]

As advanced techs are harder than snaking, less people will do it, and most pros would rather play friend matches versus other pros [thank god that there would be no leaderboard, or your argument would be valid]. And as online random would mostly be FFAs with items, everyone can just triple team the user of the techs, problem solved.

I suck at the game cause, as someone mentioned, tournaments are exclusive to where you live [and my parents...], so I'm hoping online would help me get to play people who is good. I want to be 4 stocked online, but if the advanced techs are removed then I won't be able to. Reggie already said that in MKWii everyone will be even, but please god not Brawl too. Brawl is the reason I stuck with Nintendo even though they seem to have been overly catering to casuals.

Hmm, maybe that's why Sakurai removed leaderboards, the advanced techs.

And I believe you are correct Imperial Wrath. Also, smash_fan, notice that more casuals than competitives exist in the Brawl boards, so competitive is flamed more, in the Melee boards its flopsided.

 

[HarryPooter]

You guys do know that Brawl's online will just be a friend code thing. Where you have to get the persons friend code to play. So if your friend went online he wouldn't be running into some random pros.

Source on info please.



Wait, you don't have one

 

[Jigglymaster]

Source on info please.



Wait, you don't have one

wtf are you talking about? Haven't you noticed that all the wii games that go online have to use a friend code?

Even if you want to talk to sombody on your wii you've gotta get the other persons friend code.

Stupid dumb****.