Reality Check: Items, Levels, & Adv Techs

[The Hypnotist]

Excellent points. I agree with virtually everything. Except for the fact that you make it seem as if the wavedash isn't that big, as if it's not game breaking in the least. I'd have to disagree. With wavedashing you can move backwards without changing direction, while attacking, while moving into an edge hog and allow some characters to move extremely fast. If you don't call that somewhat game breaking, or "completley unintentional" then your just in denial. Everything else I agree with. And I'm for wavedashing, just don't lie and make it seem like it's nothing, it's very important.

I'm just quoting my self because I don't feel like editing and I respect the TC and would like to hear him (or anyone else) comment on this.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Any style of playing Smash is fine. Its only a problem when players to to put one another down due to the way they play (wavedashing, item choice, level choice, etc.)

Though sometimes I wish tournaments allowed some more levels. Usually when I enter one they only allow FD, Kirby 64, Fountain of Dreams, and Yoshi Story. Its a shame seeing that chart, reminding me that there are a lot more legal levels than that.

Also, I get bothered when people judge Brawl before its even out. People are already dissing certain characters, levels, and items! Can we wait till the game is out before we complain about these things? At least they could give the game a chance!

 

[Darkfur]

I call for this to be stickied. This is by far one of the most intelligent things posted on the board. Minus the people still set on believing WDing is a glitch and not an exploit. *eyeroll* There IS a difference...

And I'm also one of those people who can't utilize WDing. Though I still find it fun. I can also enjoy a casual game right up until that capsule Bomb spawns while I'm attacking... 1... 2... 3... 4... 5! DARN TIMES IN THE SAME MATCH >_<

Yes, that's what happened the last time I played with items. I was right angry.

 

[psicicle]

Then shield to shieldgrab or if he gets behind you, b-air SHFFL

 

[Eaode]

Wavedashing IS a great technique, but it's not everything. That was adressing the numerous players who are ignorant and arrogant enough to blame all of their losses on WDing. It allows you more freedom and mobility, but it's not a be all end all technique like snaking seems to be.

No offense, but it sounds like you can use them but you can't apply them.

Not that that is absolutely the case, of course.

Thank you for proving my point. Even if you can use all of the techniques flawlessly and fluintly, there is still the fact that you have to dynamically adapt with them and use them when you need to to execute precise actions. That's what a skilled player does, adapt and use the correct moves at the right time to move around and trick the opponent. The noob is the one who is over there who spams Link's spin attack and complains that his opponent can WD over to him while he's in lag.


Again, you have proved my point. Once you can do them flawlessly, they're still useless to you, you still have to incorporate them at the correct times into your game like any other move.



Sandman, I feel sorry for you, that tournament sucks. 4 Levels!?

 

[psicicle]

You should add some large text to the post that says:

SHFFL is better than wavedash!

Because if there were any be-all end-all technique it would be SHFFLing. Or maybe shieldgrabs.

 

[Aeramis]

I agree with Eaode on this topic.
Only thing I get tired of hearing is people making threads saying they confirm the game will and has to be played with these set of rules for competitive play for brawl. I have seen alot of other threads do this-> Example: "The final smash will be banned from tournaments for sure". I hate posts like that mostly because these are new and we have not got to see how they will work, only the general idea. So lets not make threads about banning things for 100% sure until the game is out, then we can ban things that just aren't for competitive play. Simple as that.

 

[Takeshi245]

I agree with Eaode on this topic.
Only thing I get tired of hearing is people making threads saying they confirm the game will and has to be played with these set of rules for competitive play for brawl. I have seen alot of other threads do this-> Example: "The final smash will be banned from tournaments for sure". I hate posts like that mostly because these are new and we have not got to see how they will work, only the general idea. So lets not make threads about banning things for 100% sure until the game is out, then we can ban things that just aren't for competitive play. Simple as that.

To me, it seems that all items may be banned, but I wouldn't mind the Smash Ball being in or out.

 

[the grim lizard]

The thing about items in tournaments is that most of the Melee items aren't worth keeping on, not to mention the fact that any item on means exploding crates (which is the real problem). But, anyway, there is no reason to keep on Raygun or Mushrooms or Bunny Hood or Bat or Hammer or a lot of other items. Items like motion sensors and a few like those can be strategic in themselves. But again, even with items like those, you have the crate issue.

I think that if they fixed the exploding crate issue, there is no reason to keep out all items. I think a lot of tournaments would allow items on low with some restrictions such as motion sensor bomb, fan, and other reasonable (not completely random and/or abusive) items.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Well when I face a person that I know I can easily beat I go easy on them. Like the one time on Mario Kart Online I did like 2 powerslides and just stayed ahead the rest of the race, I also died on purpouse twice in a row and I would just catch up to him. Also I don't think that wavedashing is cheating, you guys shouldn't be worried about that at all, I mean they let the Yo Yo glitch in tournament play. Its were Ness hits you with his yo yo in a certain way it will cause you to hit the player anywhere from the battlefeild. You could even grab them from the opposite side of the stage. I think you guys should be worried about that first because that is actually a glitch, the wavedash is just the phsysics of the sliding. Just because it isn't possible in the real world dosn't mean its cheating. I have a friend thats weaker than me but abuses pressure points to beat me. Would you call that cheating? It takes almost little knowledge to do it and it packs a punch.

 

[SmashChu]

I play tourny and my friend doesn't know WTF advanced techs are. I can WD, SHFFL etc. and he can still whoop my arse, how can you explain this?

My guess. You either can't apply them or just learned the techniques, and nothing else. In this senario, yes, then it's not an insant win. I can wavedahs too. But that doesn't mean I can astcually use it. I can just make Mario move foward. Is this WD, yes. But it's far from refined.

But, if you can actually do it probperly it gives you an advantage over someone else, and an unfair one at that.

Let's say that two people of equal skill, same character, FD, and no items fight(with no play style clash). Their essentually equal. But one can L Cancle and WD. The other, can't. Who do you think is going to win.

Is this skill. Yes. But it's not skill in how the game is ment to be played. It distracts from the game and your exploiting something that is not ment to be in the game. You won not becuase you were better, but becuase you know a cheap trick the other player wasn't aware of. If both players are of equal skill then the one with the advance techs. will always win becuase he can do what the other oplayer can do, just faster and better.

It's not fair to other players. This is online I speak off. Tournamnt play is different. But when playing online, just for fun, it can ruin the game. So, the end result........

Basically, if these tach. are left into Brawl, people who have them get an edge over other players. It IS an advantage. You move faster and flow better, giving you an edge. Basically, their will be two people. Ones who learnt hem and get really competative, and those that stop playing. So now online is just a big "PWN" fest with no fun what so ever. This is what happened to Mario Kart. Snaking made the gamne compatative and ruined a lot of the characters and elemnets of the gamne. The same will happen to Brawl.

 

[greenblob]

Yes, knowledge is power. If you know more, of course you should have an advantage. How is being better at the game because you know more about it not fair?

 

[the grim lizard]

People will learn...quickly. And they will adjust. People deserve to lose if they don't put some time into practicing the game. In your scenario, the players weren't equal because one had practiced more than the other.

The fact that there is a techniques tab in the How to Play section means Sakurai cares about adv. techs, and it means he is appealing to the competitive players. They only have a couple on there right now, but there are a couple new ones, which means they want to advance the game and give people more options for strategies.

 

[Jigglymaster]

But, if you can actually do it probperly it gives you an advantage over someone else, and an unfair one at that.

Let's say that two people of equal skill, same character, FD, and no items fight(with no play style clash). Their essentually equal. But one can L Cancle and WD. The other, can't. Who do you think is going to win.

Is this skill. Yes. But it's not skill in how the game is ment to be played. It distracts from the game and your exploiting something that is not ment to be in the game. You won not becuase you were better, but becuase you know a cheap trick the other player wasn't aware of. If both players are of equal skill then the one with the advance techs. will always win becuase he can do what the other oplayer can do, just faster and better.

It's not fair to other players. This is online I speak off. Tournamnt play is different. But when playing online, just for fun, it can ruin the game. So, the end result........

Basically, if these tach. are left into Brawl, people who have them get an edge over other players. It IS an advantage. You move faster and flow better, giving you an edge. Basically, their will be two people. Ones who learnt hem and get really competative, and those that stop playing. So now online is just a big "PWN" fest with no fun what so ever. This is what happened to Mario Kart. Snaking made the gamne compatative and ruined a lot of the characters and elemnets of the gamne. The same will happen to Brawl.

Yeah, but thats like saying, two players who fight that have equal skill, one knows how to recover and the other dosn't, who do you think will win? And plus, if one knew wavedashing and l canceling they wouldn't be at equal skill anymore. And wtf do you mean wavedashing is not skill on how the game was meant to be played. I find that complete bull****. Anything that is in the game is how it was meant to be played. But if you use AR that how its not meant to be played. Like saying using pressure points is not a skill on how fighting in real life is supposed to be played. You just can't say OH YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE THATS NOT HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED EVEN THOUGH ITS IN THERE WITHOUT USING CHEAT CODES.

Your trying to shove your ways of playing down our throats, and thats not cool.

Its like a Mets fan going to a Yankee fan area and telling them to support the mets instead of the Yankees.

 

[Eaode]

L cancelling was only a glitch in smash 64, it was kept in and coded into melee.

 

[SmashChu]

Yeah, but thats like saying, two players who fight that have equal skill, one knows how to recover and the other dosn't, who do you think will win? A plus, if one knew wavedashing and l canceling they wouldn't be at equal skill anymore. And wtf do you mean wavedashing is not skill on how the game was meant to be played. I find that complete bull****. Anything that is in the game is how it was meant to be played. But if you use AR that how its not meant to be played. Like saying using pressure points is not a skill on how fighting in real life is supposed to be played. You just can't say OH YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE THATS NOT HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED EVEN THOUGH ITS IN THERE WITHOUT USING CHEAT CODES.

The thing is WD and L-cancelling are not noraml skill based thing. Their unique tricsk with the who perpose of getting the edge over an opponent who can't do it. Same as Snaking. But, just like Snaking, it's become a norm.

But you say Anything that is in the game is how it was meant to be played.
which, is indead bull****. The programmer did not develop L-cancelling. It is a glitch. They did not programme WD. It is a fault in the game's physics. It is NOT how the game was ment to be played. The game's developemnt, balance and anything else was not compensated with that, It is something outside the realm of the game. No one is prepared for it unless they know it exist. Just becuase you can do it without a cheat code does not justify it. It still an unfair advantage you can get over your foe. Something they may not know even exist,

Again, I say this from an online stand point. Take them out so online will actually be enjoyable. It's possible to enjoty the game, and still have deopth without these tricks. It's had it all along. Them being gone gone will not ruin the experience. Them being in the game will hurt online and make it overally competative. Don't beleive, but with any online comunity if "advance techs." enter the playing will be void of fun and become "serious buisness"

Your trying to shove your ways of playing down our throats, and thats not cool.

Again, I feel people just read my post as "He hates advance techs. GET HIM!!!! O:<". Not the fact that it's for keeping online fun and fair. So that every played will enjoy them eslves. That they lost becuase they weren't good. Not because the opponent was dashing all over the place and could attack abnormally fast.

As for shoving thoughts down others thoughts, I'm not. This post, and the post "How Smash Should be played" are. My idea is different from theirs.

L cancelling was only a glitch in smash 64, it was kept in and coded into melee.

I'd like to see some proff. It possible, but not probable. It seems a glitch like that seems to be hard to track or even fix in the first place. In fact, the number of poeple who actually used it were small. Very. Melee was really the one who brought Smash into the competative world and made things like these techs known.

 

[Jigglymaster]

You Can't Tell Me How The Game Is Meant To Be Played You Stupid ****face!!!


Wavedashing is a skill everybody can learn. Its not ****ing cheating. I'm not after you because you hate the advance techniques, its because you keep flamming us and telling what we do is cheap. The way I enjoy the game is no items, 4 stock, and on a netrual stage. You can't tell me how to enjoy the game. And just because the majority of the people enjoy it the way you do, dosn't mean that everybody enjoys it that way.

And btw if the developer didn't intend L canceling then how come they kept it?


And why the hell are there like 20 of these topics containing flame wars?
Also if you haven't noticed the majority of the flame wars have been started by the casual players.

 

[Rikka]

If you go online, casual player or not, you're trying to win. Have fun, yes, but you're trying to win. Knowing adv techs isn't cheating, especially when they aren't glitches. Your point is that it's unfair, but it's not. Look at the Poke games. Tell the competitive people they have an unfair advantage over others because they EV train. They'll laugh at you all day. Same thing here.

 

[greenblob]

Oh, so you're siding with the people on Smash64 Online who say "ZOMG ur che4ting u maek ur jumps smallar!!"

And L-canceling was programmed in. It's not a glitch.

 

[Eaode]

No one is prepared for it unless they know it exist.

^^^ Did you just say that? I seriously ****in ROFFLED

The programmer did not develop L-cancelling. It is a glitch

L cancelling was only a glitch in smash 64, it was kept in and coded into melee.

yeah....

It is something outside the realm of the game.

I can do it in game. Every part of it was supposed to happen. They didn't specifically use it in that way, but it's still intentional.maybe they didn't intend for bowser to be able to use his up-b and grab the ledge. Maybe they didn't SPECIFICALLY use Roy's Bair to turn around and edgehog.

Why would you want to take out everything that they didn't explitcitly ntend to be done?


Stop talking about making the game "fair" and how adv techs take away "fun". If a player doesn't know about Wavedash, and they get beaten by it, guess what? THEY CAN START USING IT NOW AND GET BETTER, instead of sitting there whining about how they lost to the wavedasher and how unbalanced it is. Why don't they just TRY to improve?

 

[Darkfur]

The programmer did not originally develop L-cancelling in Smash 64. They did however implement it as a technique in Melee, making it reduce lag time as opposed to eliminate it. It is a not a glitch anymore.

Lookie. It's been Fixd :D

 

[Superstar]

Basically, you are saying for there to not be any ways to reward the skilled player. So that even if you are intent on improving, you will match up evenly against someone who just started? What kind of crap is that. Usually when a game is online it is supposed to get competitive. I have been using the techs for more than 6 months and still suck [mostly from lack of available players]. You are saying that just knowing the techs gives you an "unfair" advantage between two equal skilled people, but the fact of the matter is that techs take skill to use, and without knowledge of the tech they kinda cripple you [cept L-Cancel].

Also, L-Cancel was in BOTH SSB64 and Melee, so why would it be coded out? Less people will use techs online than snaking because snaking you can just learn in an hour, advanced techs take many months, so it will still be fun for you regardless.

Also, Wavedash was programmed as part of the physics, an intended effect to the airdodge's movement, though it wasn't intended to be used as a technique, and frankly I don't care. If you are not skilled, then using the wavedash makes you worse, its just a slide, that's all it is. Try using the wavedash in an actual match before saying it takes actual skill to utilize. I learned Wavedash in 10 minutes, you just airdodge diagonally into the ground, however learning the tech made me worse, until I learned to utilize it a better and got slightly better.

 

[slikvik]

The programmer did not develop L-cancelling. It is a glitch.

As soon as you posted that, your entire argument lost credibility.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I mean smashchu is basicly saying that nintendo should dumb smash bros down enough so that people who don't put much effort into getting good at SSBM can have a chance against a veterian player. Because without the advanced or what they call "cheap" moves we would have to play like we would in single button mode.

Yeah, theres a mode called single button mode. Not many players use it. Why? Because it has restrictions, I mean is that what you really want brawl to be. Certaintly not I.

 

[the grim lizard]

"Ledge-hogging is so cheap!" -_-

 

[BigRick]

I think that the devs made a stupid move to implement L-canceling in Melee.

L-canceling is useless for the game... does it really adds a skill factor?

Yes it does, in a sense. L-canceling values the ''skill'' of pushing the right button at the right time, therefore this ''skill'' is something to be mastered.

However, is the l-canceling skill, a skill that should be valued over other skills, like spacing or smart play? I don't think so.

L-canceling is just a barrier that values a skill that isn't very important.

Therefore, I hope that this feature doesn't get implemented in Brawl...

 

[DonkeyPirate]

see, I dont agree with that. I started playing with people who were decent at the game and they kicked my butt for a good year, but then I started to get better. Now since ive incorperated advanced techs, I am much better than they are. The only way to get better is to play against people who are better than you, an dlearn to adapt

 

[Rikka]

Lag wasn't created to be L-canceled, L-canceled was created to get rid of lag.

Spacing and smart play are more important, since L-canceling purpose is to make your spacing and smart play better.

 

[maxpower1227]

I think that the devs made a stupid move to implement L-canceling in Melee.

L-canceling is useless for the game... does it really adds a skill factor?

Yes it does, in a sense. L-canceling values the ''skill'' of pushing the right button at the right time, therefore this ''skill'' is something to be mastered.

However, is the l-canceling skill, a skill that should be valued over other skills, like spacing or smart play? I don't think so.

L-canceling is just a barrier that values a skill that isn't very important.

Therefore, I hope that this feature doesn't get implemented in Brawl...

That's odd... I was actually starting to think the same thing myself, just about this one technique. It seems fairly useless to me, and it seems like the game would be faster overall and thus more enjoyable if they just reduced everyone's default lag to what it would be with L-cancelling. It's not really a skill in that you have to know when to use it; you just use it every time you land from an aerial attack.

 

[the grim lizard]

No, because it's more about using your shield right as you land (even though most people don't keep the shield on). Why should Link's dair be really fast if a person can't press 'L' when they land? It's the same as teching...why don't they just make it so you can't fall on your back when you're hit hard but always land on your feet? That would be pointless.

 

[BigRick]

Lag wasn't created to be L-canceled, L-canceled was created to get rid of lag.

Spacing and smart play are more important, since L-canceling purpose is to make your spacing and smart play better.

L-canceling has nothing to do with spacing and smart play.

To Grim Lizard: Teching is not always the best option... especially against characters that can tech chase very well (Sheik, Falcon)

 

[Rikka]

I can space better when I can get over my lag quicker, and getting rid of lag is smart play.

I see your point, though.

 

[GreenKirby]

Define fair play: Considering that tiers exist and that Peach's veggies are considered items. But that's beside the point.

I play with both items on and off. (preferably on)
As for people claiming that tourney players only play F. Destination, it's practically true. I like FD, but enough is usually enough. The people I play with only play that stage. I understand if they refuse to play Big Blue, Hyrule, and Brinstar Depths, but for goodness sake, they're are other stages besides FD.

 

[BigRick]

I can space better when I can get over my lag quicker, and getting rid of lag is smart play.

I see your point, though.

It's not smart play because getting rid of lag is ALWAYS the best option to choose... why would sum1 want to have more lag???

And when I talk about spacing, I'm talking about knowing the ranges of your attacks and attacking from certain ranges at the right time either to outrange your opponent or to facilitate a combo. So it has nothing to do with lag.

 

[SmashChu]

You Can't Tell Me How The Game Is Meant To Be Played You Stupid ****face!!!

I'm not trying to change how tournamnts are played. Again, I feel people see key words. Wavedashing. Cheating. In tournamnts, I have no problem. They are for hardcore players who they are targeted too. But, I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the smaash player who post on Nsiders and wants Shadow in Brawl. I speak of him. He wan'ts online with items and 4vs. I feel these techniques will hurt his fun. I know theirs a lot of playes who would rather not have this. They don't want some competative player to come in and use advance tech and lose miserably.

Wavedashing is a skill everybody can learn. Its not ****ing cheating. I'm not after you because you hate the advance techniques, its because you keep flamming us and telling what we do is cheap. The way I enjoy the game is no items, 4 stock, and on a netrual stage. You can't tell me how to enjoy the game. And just because the majority of the people enjoy it the way you do, dosn't mean that everybody enjoys it that way.

Not everyone can learn. Again, remember I talk of online, where some people may not be as hardcore as you. It's easy for you, but is it easy for them. Not really. It takes a good deal of practice to use.

But, that's not the point. You can play 4 stock, no items on a nutural course. Play as you want. I attack the techs becuase I feel they will ruin the fun for everyone else. I made a post ealier about just why. Not everyone dedicated them selves to Smash. I ****ing love the game, but I won't be learning a bunch of crazy techs. just to have fun. Am I the only one, know. Not everyone is as hardcore as you. Tghey just want to hop online and play smash all over the world. That's all. Their rules are different from your.

And btw if the developer didn't intend L canceling then how come they kept it?

Again, like I ask, ddid they really. It's quite possble they didn't know about it. Yes, it's possible. I don't think many knew about it till Melee entered the competative seen. That, or it was hard to fix and wes left in.

And why the hell are there like 20 of these topics containing flame wars?
Also if you haven't noticed the majority of the flame wars have been started by the casual players.

If I started a flame war, I apoligize. I'm not trying to flame the way you play. I ssay these becuase it's "for the greater good" type thing. It's for evertyone who plays smash. You'll be able to play it with these techs. or not. I only attack those two becuaser they are not in the normal realm of the game. This like croutch cancle and edgehoggging are ok. If someone get's beat by it they got beat by something they saw and one they is int he normal rule of the game(which they can learn themselves and put it to good use).

Now, i respect your opinion. But, to say omnly the casual people are statring the flame wars the Eaode is fanning the flames.

^^^ Did you just say that? I seriously ****in ROFFLED

Your point

yeah....

Again, so me your proff. How do you know they programmed it into the game. their is no animation for it and it works like a glitch. Chances are, they didn't know about it. Smash shipped 5million worlwide but at that time the competative community was small. It's very possible it didn't get noticed. Again, show me your proff. All you said is "OH, it sooooo was"

I can do it in game. Every part of it was supposed to happen. They didn't specifically use it in that way, but it's still intentional.maybe they didn't intend for bowser to be able to use his up-b and grab the ledge. Maybe they didn't SPECIFICALLY use Roy's Bair to turn around and edgehog.

Exactly. They didn't mean for it to be used that way. I arrest my case. That gives you an advantage. How is someone suppose to counter something that wasn't even ment to be there.

Why would you want to take out everything that they didn't explitcitly ntend to be done?

Read my later post. I've said this like 50 times. It's for the purpose of online. So that it won;t get ***** by these. If left in, it will become a focal poitn of the game and take away from it. It's happened before.

Stop talking about making the game "fair" and how adv techs take away "fun". If a player doesn't know about Wavedash, and they get beaten by it, guess what? THEY CAN START USING IT NOW AND GET BETTER, instead of sitting there whining about how they lost to the wavedasher and how unbalanced it is. Why don't they just TRY to improve?

You understand that if someone gets betten online with someone who is wavedashing, they aren't going to know what it freakin' is. You fail to be able to put your self in others shoes. In what they would see. They would see Fox is magically sliding. Wavedashing's commands are so complicated for what it is that it would be unable to firgure out by the normal player. Ever think about that. Oh, of course you didn't. Your to busy with the fact that someone doesn't agree with your playing style and you go into a hissy fit.

Waavedashing, you also forget, requires a lot more control and practice then snaking. I've tried it. I can't do it. You happy? Just becuase you cvan do it, and found it easy, doesn't mean everyone will. Why should out online experience be hampered just becuase YOU obsess yourself with the game, and do it for the sole purpose of winning. While, yes you always want to win, but doing a tech. outside the realm of the game just to win makes you competative to where you just want to kill n00bs all day. You don't care about fun, or the fact your killing your own game by driving everyone else out.

Now, people, I'm talking about ONLINE. Online, only. So that everyone can haver a good time. Becuase, guess what. You may not like it, but some would rather play the game then have to learn some crazy technique to compete. Some do find these hard to do. Some don't want to play like that. There are other peoiple in the world. Some of you should look outside the box. Theres a wideworld out there.

 

[the grim lizard]

Well...that's a really hard question to answer. I mean, it's kind of the same as how you can cancel certain moves by landing on the ground or how you can cancel Falco's >B or Doc's ^B. Not really sure why it's even an option (either always laggy or always no lag). But it's probably the same reason for those other abnormalities.

 

[Rikka]

Meh, I include being able to get in the right ranges spacing. And choosing the best option is smart play, even if it's obvious and always the right choice. It's just not something you would use as an example of it.

And again, I see the reasoning on why you think L-canceling should be taken out.

 

[slikvik]

I think that the devs made a stupid move to implement L-canceling in Melee.

L-canceling is useless for the game... does it really adds a skill factor?

Yes it does, in a sense. L-canceling values the ''skill'' of pushing the right button at the right time, therefore this ''skill'' is something to be mastered.

However, is the l-canceling skill, a skill that should be valued over other skills, like spacing or smart play? I don't think so.

L-canceling is just a barrier that values a skill that isn't very important.

Therefore, I hope that this feature doesn't get implemented in Brawl...

L-canceling is the developers way of rewarding players who truly wish to master the game. Why take it out. Spacing and smart play are important, but l-cancelling makes the game a bit more complex. It creates more options and strategy. Without it, deep play would amount to who gets the most shield grabs in one match. Why take it out. The developers clearly felt it wasn't gamebreaking, since they programmed it in the game to reduce landing lag by half the frames

 

[BigRick]

^^Well SmashChu if they can't WaveDash they don't have to learn it...

If they're TRULY PLAYING FOR FUN they can still play and do their best, it won't matter if they lose.

If they don't and start complain about how WD is unfair, this is a scrubbish attitude.

I got friends that can't WD and they still want to play against me and they don't care if I can wavedash...

And btw, please believe that l-canceling was programmed in this game. It is common FACT. People have explored the game code with Action Replay, that's why we know.

 

[Rikka]

Why don't these people you're talking about join a FFA then?

Also, it sounds like you think average Nsider members way of playing will be the minority. So you're screwing over the majority of players for the minority.