Reality 64: A Smash 64 Mod For Brawl [Not Quite The End | Page 26]

[Rimjo]

Hey guys. It's been pretty slow for me recently due to outside things going on in my life. Animations are still coming along however, and i'm going to talk about animating Fox. When working on Reality 64, we're working off the animations of Brawl. Fox's animations in Brawl look incredibly different from his Melee and 64 animations. They're bouncier, and a bit more cartoony. They don't match the 64 animations we'd like to have , so we have to redo some of Fox's animations. I'm first working on Fox's primary idle animation. Most characters grounded animations, like a grab for example, begin with the same pose as that specific character's idle animation. I've completed Fox's first primary idle animation, so from here I can work on Fox's grounded moves (fsmash, utilt, dsmash, grab) that need to be changed to match his 64 moveset.

Here is Fox's primary idle animation.
http://gfycat.com/WarpedClearDogwoodtwigborer

From here, I can use his idle animation to create Fox's other grounded moves that need to be reanimted, like his forward smash.
http://gfycat.com/BossyVictoriousFanworms

I'm going to be finished animating Fox's up tilt not long from now, so expect it to be shared here in the coming weeks (With possibly more animations too? It depends on how much work I get done haha.)

If you're wondering about Fox's other grounded animations, like his other idles (most characters have 3 idles), taunts, and smaller animations like turning your character around, turning around during a dash, these are lower priority animations for us right now. We will get to them, but further down the line. Taking care of Fox's 64 attacks is our first priority with him, so that PlateProp can properly take care of Fox's hitboxes and stuff. Right now, Fox is one of our bigger pieces of character work when it comes to recreating a 64-like roster, and the same number of animation edits and changes required for Fox will not be required for any other character in the 64 roster. Thanks so much for continuing to follow this project!

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

Hey guys. It's been pretty slow for me recently due to outside things going on in my life. Animations are still coming along however, and i'm going to talk about animating Fox. When working on Reality 64, we're working off the animations of Brawl. Fox's animations in Brawl look incredibly different from his Melee and 64 animations. They're bouncier, and a bit more cartoony. They don't match the 64 animations we'd like to have , so we have to redo some of Fox's animations. I'm first working on Fox's primary idle animation. Most characters grounded animations, like a grab for example, begin with the same pose as that specific character's idle animation. I've completed Fox's first primary idle animation, so from here I can work on Fox's grounded moves (fsmash, utilt, dsmash, grab) that need to be changed to match his 64 moveset.

Here is Fox's primary idle animation.
http://gfycat.com/WarpedClearDogwoodtwigborer

From here, I can use his idle animation to create Fox's other grounded moves that need to be reanimted, like his forward smash.
http://gfycat.com/BossyVictoriousFanworms

I'm going to be finished animating Fox's up tilt not long from now, so expect it to be shared here in the coming weeks (With possibly more animations too? It depends on how much work I get done haha.)

If you're wondering about Fox's other grounded animations, like his other idles (most characters have 3 idles), taunts, and smaller animations like turning your character around, turning around during a dash, these are lower priority animations for us right now. We will get to them, but further down the line. Taking care of Fox's 64 attacks is our first priority with him, so that PlateProp can properly take care of Fox's hitboxes and stuff. Right now, Fox is one of our bigger pieces of character work when it comes to recreating a 64-like roster, and the same number of animation edits and changes required for Fox will not be required for any other character in the 64 roster. Thanks so much for continuing to follow this project!

I really appreciate the fact that you made this post; these kind of updates are what's been missing from the project this whole time.

 

[Zarx1554]

I will try to show something next Thursday. (Yes I just hinted a hint).

 

[PlateProp]

I will try to show something next Thursday. (Yes I just hinted a hint).

inb4 the hint is a lie

 

[Zarx1554]

Honestly, I want to know what you guys think. Any suggestions?

 

[Psi Sig]

about what?

 

[ImThatGuy]

I have a lot more hope for the project now that we seem to be getting updates and more information on the project, I think with enough hard work you guys can pull it off, if you meant for the Fox animations, when I opened the gyf, I was very impressed with how close they were to the actual 64 animations, great job ! As for suggestions, keep with regular updates and dont put too much on your plate, Id recommend just starting with movesets, animations and all the basic stuff before you start working on all the fancy extras, menus, modes, characters, costumes, all that jazz, I think a big problem with big gameplay mods is that everyone expects it to look like project m or brawl minus right off the bat, the expectations are too high, not to say that you guys cant reach there, but obviously, it would take quite a while. So just take it slow, you guys are doing great and im legit excited to see more on the project!

 

[metaknight120]

Honestly, I want to know what you guys think. Any suggestions?

about the mod in general?
I think the first focus should be getting the basics, stuff that will require no innovation
so original 12 (hell, original eight would be fine), all 64 stages, and an engine that feels like 64
after that, develop characters based on how easy they are to implement and go from there
Make design decisions around 64's strengths, not what future games did.
On a related note, don't make characters too gimmicky. Look at Smash 4 and project M. In Smash 4 if you stripped Rosalina of her Luma and just made her neutral and side special send out projectiles from her body, she wouldn't be memorable. In Project M, if you stripped Mewtwo of his midair flight, he's basically Melee Mewtwo with slightly better moves. This also seeps into how Project M remodeled some of the vets, see ROB's recovery.
Basically, if you can remove one move/trait to make a character boring and forgettable, then you screwed up.

edit: gimmick characters aren't necessarily bad, it's just that 64 didn't have any, therefore reality 64 should avoid them as much as possible. I say as much as possible because good luck making Olimar not gimmicky.

 

[Psi Sig]

suggestions:
keep up the semi-regular updates.
Love the animation gifs, would love them more if we could see them using the the new models.
When it comes times for testing hit up the 64 people, clubba, jimmyjoe, firo etc.
Would also love to see a list of milestone goals, for example, get original 12 1:1, so on and so forth

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

Teaser of Breakbot's newly announced track was leaked Kreygasm

http://www.enjoymusicapp.com/web/song/share/detail/bmgNLTc5QDQyQjv5QDQyQgW=

Nice funky goodness

EDIT: Oops wrong thread

Enjjoy anyway.

 

[Jackpot08]

Now that ProjectM is done does that mean some of the developers will come to this project? that'd be awesome

 

[Zarx1554]

Now that ProjectM is done does that mean some of the developers will come to this project? that'd be awesome

I'd love for that to happen, but they're "moving on to a new project". I suspect it has something to do with wavedash games.

 

[Rimjo]

Now that ProjectM is done does that mean some of the developers will come to this project? that'd be awesome

I highly doubt it. Though I tried applying to the PMDT as an animator, I finished my application last friday so that won't happen haha. Still, I now have more time to dedicate to Reality 64 now.

 

[NhgrtPlayer]

I'm really hype for this, I hope it's still in developpement and comes soon ! ^^

 

[Rimjo]

I'm really hype for this, I hope it's still in developpement and comes soon ! ^^

You bet we're still working on it! I might have something neat to show you guys not long from now

 

[Zarx1554]

On the launcher, I wanted it to say "Don't get hit" because of Isai, but I feel like the Moto should be "You've waited to damn long"

 

[Kamineigh]

about the mod in general?
I think the first focus should be getting the basics, stuff that will require no innovation
so original 12 (hell, original eight would be fine), all 64 stages, and an engine that feels like 64
after that, develop characters based on how easy they are to implement and go from there
Make design decisions around 64's strengths, not what future games did.
On a related note, don't make characters too gimmicky. Look at Smash 4 and project M. In Smash 4 if you stripped Rosalina of her Luma and just made her neutral and side special send out projectiles from her body, she wouldn't be memorable. In Project M, if you stripped Mewtwo of his midair flight, he's basically Melee Mewtwo with slightly better moves. This also seeps into how Project M remodeled some of the vets, see ROB's recovery.
Basically, if you can remove one move/trait to make a character boring and forgettable, then you screwed up.

edit: gimmick characters aren't necessarily bad, it's just that 64 didn't have any, therefore reality 64 should avoid them as much as possible. I say as much as possible because good luck making Olimar not gimmicky.

Well 64 didn't have any gimmick characters because the roster was so small. It also lacked transforming stages, moving stages, and many of the stage hazards that were present were very simple, like wind or a bumper.

I think 'gimmick' characters would be simplified to match Smash 64's aesthetic. I'd also imagine that the roster would develop along these lines.

Original 12 -> Clones/Semiclones of the Original 12 -> Simpler Non-clones -> Complex Non-clones.

For example, after the original 12 are finished, I could see characters like Ganondorf, Lucas, Toon Link, and Falco being added.


However, while I think the focus should be on Smash 64, it would be smart to look at the sequels for ideas on how to keep characters simple, but unique.

For example, let's say they adapt Ganondorf. Instead of Wizard's Foot for his Down Special, it could be replaced with Flame Choke. Instead of a Warlock Punch, he'd use Warlock Blade, a move introduced in Smash 4.

Since Falcon no longer has Raptor Boost, and Ganondorf loses the Foot, Ganondorf wouldn't become a lazy clone of Falcon, and the blade would do the same, preserving the basics of the punch, but putting a uniquely Ganondorf spin on them.

 

[PlateProp]

inb4 the 13th character is car yoshi

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

Yeah, I always thought that characters like the clones (and possibly Marth) would be added first since they would fit nicely into 64's design philosophy, and wouldn't be the most technically difficult to implement if I'm thinking right.

 

[Journal]

I'm so hype for this. I'm really excited to see if sheik makes it into this, because I'd love nothing more than her edgeguards without being able to tech against the stage.

 

[Kamineigh]

That's actually something to think about! Will the transforming characters still transform, or will they be broken apart?

If they are separated into different characters, then I could see their movesets changing drastically.

Nayru's Love would have to be moved to Zelda's down special, and Din's Fire would have to become her neutral special.

Likewise, I'd assume Sheik's needles would become her down special, and her chain would become her neutral.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I'm not sure what the team is interested in doing, but I would much rather take a bit of inspiration from Smash 4 and give Sheik a version of Bouncing Fish. Either way, I think taking out transformation as a mechanic would help the characters feel more like they came from 64.

 

[Zarx1554]

Let's worry about the first release guys. We got something in store.

 

[PlateProp]

inb4 no shiek
inb4 no zelda

Spoiler: Inb4 New Screenshot

you thought

 

[Shadow]

hmm I swear I posted this before guess not
anyway is this team planing on adding link's original moveset from the 64?
like his dash attack, usmash, fsmash, and fair? maybe his classic hookshot mechanics speed up?

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

hmm I swear I posted this before guess not
anyway is this team planing on adding link's original moveset from the 64?
like his dash attack, usmash, fsmash, and fair? maybe his classic hookshot mechanics speed up?

That's the goal of the project for not only Link, but for the original 12.

 

[metaknight120]

Well 64 didn't have any gimmick characters because the roster was so small. It also lacked transforming stages, moving stages, and many of the stage hazards that were present were very simple, like wind or a bumper.

I think 'gimmick' characters would be simplified to match Smash 64's aesthetic. I'd also imagine that the roster would develop along these lines.

Original 12 -> Clones/Semiclones of the Original 12 -> Simpler Non-clones -> Complex Non-clones.

For example, after the original 12 are finished, I could see characters like Ganondorf, Lucas, Toon Link, and Falco being added.


However, while I think the focus should be on Smash 64, it would be smart to look at the sequels for ideas on how to keep characters simple, but unique.

For example, let's say they adapt Ganondorf. Instead of Wizard's Foot for his Down Special, it could be replaced with Flame Choke. Instead of a Warlock Punch, he'd use Warlock Blade, a move introduced in Smash 4.

Since Falcon no longer has Raptor Boost, and Ganondorf loses the Foot, Ganondorf wouldn't become a lazy clone of Falcon, and the blade would do the same, preserving the basics of the punch, but putting a uniquely Ganondorf spin on them.

I think flame choke would work better as a new neutral special for the dorf, yeah sure giving up warlock punch here but no matter what you're giving up a big part of the dorf to make him 64-like
I didn't really consider stages, but yeah I think stages are actually the opposite case of characters in that it is /very/ clear that sakurai wanted those to be gimmicky from the let-go. Notice that 2 of the 9 stages are conservative in layout and stand a chance at legality in future games, you could tell he'd kill to have icicle mountain in 64.

As for characters, I did have an idea for Olimar if anyone here wants to take it to heart.
basically his neutral special is kirby's copy ability for olimar, and then any normal moves involving pikmin just have him pull one from hammer space. make each move be a specific color such as bair always being purple and uair always being yellow or something. much less RNG reliance and none of the nonsense in project M and Smash 4 where you have to remember "this color has good throws, this one has good hitstun, etc."

By the way, I'm not saying gimmick characters are bad, I mean I play as Bowser Junior for god's sake.

 

[metaknight120]

That's actually something to think about! Will the transforming characters still transform, or will they be broken apart?

If they are separated into different characters, then I could see their movesets changing drastically.

Nayru's Love would have to be moved to Zelda's down special, and Din's Fire would have to become her neutral special.

Likewise, I'd assume Sheik's needles would become her down special, and her chain would become her neutral.

same wavelength here, transformations should be nixed entirely because even in smash 4 sakurai's come to realize they don't add anything meaningful. The ratio of sheilda players to sheik mains and zelda mains is clear proof that hot-gluing two characters usually does nothing.

 

[Shadow]

That's the goal of the project for not only Link, but for the original 12.

I know link is just my favorite character
and your not going to edit any bones right?

you could use project m's boomerang and the bow from here if you wanted to stick with link's oot style in ssb64
I was making a oot 3d hookshot remake and I could give you the model and texture if you can apply its uv's and chain animation for me

 

[Rimjo]

even in smash 4 sakurai's come to realize they don't add anything meaningful.

I'm fairly certain that Sakurai ditched out on transformation characters due to hardware limitations on the 3DS. Not positive though.

 

[metaknight120]

I'm fairly certain that Sakurai ditched out on transformation characters due to hardware limitations on the 3DS. Not positive though.

3DS is basically a pocket-sized gamecube in terms of horse-power, somehow I think it could handle transformations since melee could on nearly equally strong hardware

 

[Kamineigh]

I think flame choke would work better as a new neutral special for the dorf, yeah sure giving up warlock punch here but no matter what you're giving up a big part of the dorf to make him 64-like

Well I main Ganondorf, and I hardly ever use Wizard's Foot, except for when I need to punish a roll, or to make my recovery from above safer. The first function is useless, since rolls don't exist in 64, and the second function could be given to an aerial Flame Choke, which would basically look like a grab version of his quake punch from OoT.

As for characters, I did have an idea for Olimar if anyone here wants to take it to heart.
basically his neutral special is kirby's copy ability for olimar, and then any normal moves involving pikmin just have him pull one from hammer space. make each move be a specific color such as bair always being purple and uair always being yellow or something. much less RNG reliance and none of the nonsense in project M and Smash 4 where you have to remember "this color has good throws, this one has good hitstun, etc."

This is what I was thinking, but with the specific Pikmin being used specifically for their particular jobs. Purple Pikmin are always used in Smashes, and so on. His recovery might need to be changed, or forced to generate Pikimin in a specific order, with each having their own hitbox.

 

[metaknight120]

Well I main Ganondorf, and I hardly ever use Wizard's Foot, except for when I need to punish a roll, or to make my recovery from above safer. The first function is useless, since rolls don't exist in 64, and the second function could be given to an aerial Flame Choke, which would basically look like a grab version of his quake punch from OoT.

Rolls existed in Smash 64. I don't main Dorf, let alone know anything about how to play him, so I guess you'd know what's more worth preserving

This is what I was thinking, but with the specific Pikmin being used specifically for their particular jobs. Purple Pikmin are always used in Smashes, and so on. His recovery might need to be changed, or forced to generate Pikimin in a specific order, with each having their own hitbox.

first part is what I meant by making certain moves just use certain pikmin. Recovery could probably be changed to a non-tether like ionium jet or pink pikmin

 

[ImThatGuy]

Well since we're discussing characters, I would want to hear some opinions on falco. Personally I feel like a more melee styled falco would need a lot of adjustments, because I feel like with the amount of histun in 64, he'd be a bit overwhelming with shine dair combos, so what do you think his specials should be and what balancing should be done to keep him in line with the cast?

 

[NhgrtPlayer]

Let's start by having our 12 original characters, shall we ? xD

 

[Kamineigh]

Rolls existed in Smash 64. I don't main Dorf, let alone know anything about how to play him, so I guess you'd know what's more worth preserving

first part is what I meant by making certain moves just use certain pikmin. Recovery could probably be changed to a non-tether like ionium jet or pink pikmin

Oh. Huh.

Well the Flame Choke would also be viable as a roll punish, since you can get some pretty cruel chains going on. And since there is no teching, Ganondorf would be able to follow-up on Flame Choke more effectively. One of the most infuriating things is when an opponent techs and robs me of my chance to Dair them into the air.

I suppose so, but I was imagineing the tether being a powerful move that when hit right, deals a ton of damage. Like, the Pikmin in order from 'closest to Olli' to 'furthest from Olli' is: White, Blue, Red, Yellow, Purple.

If he hits the opponent while they're close to his body, they'll get hit into the next Pikmin in the chain, ending with the Purple Pikmin, as a finisher, but only during the startup. Otherwise, the move acts normally.

Well since we're discussing characters, I would want to hear some opinions on falco. Personally I feel like a more melee styled falco would need a lot of adjustments, because I feel like with the amount of histun in 64, he'd be a bit overwhelming with shine dair combos, so what do you think his specials should be and what balancing should be done to keep him in line with the cast?

I think Falco could utilize his changes from across the series.

Phantasm would replace Fire Bird, and would carry the Meteor effect it has in Smash 4, which would make edge-guarding him risky.

His Reflector would be useful if it flew outward from his body, like it has since Brawl, but with a shorter range, and it orbits him for as long as the button is held. While not as good at protection, it'd be better as an attack that trapps opponents by Falco's side.

Let's start by having our 12 original characters, shall we ? xD

Hey now, there's no harm in discussion and speculation.

 

[Psi Sig]

Phantasm would replace Fire Bird, and would carry the Meteor effect it has in Smash 4, which would make edge-guarding him risky.

I think it carrying its meteor effect might be too much due to the lack of meteor cancelling

 

[Obskore]

I think it carrying its meteor effect might be too much due to the lack of meteor cancelling

i had the thought of making Falco's UpB work like PM Wolf's, it has knockback in the direction you aim it. just give it a slash effect, while keeping it looking like Phantasm.
as for Wolf, leave it like brawl, but with less hits, the final kick is a horizontal kill move or combo finisher. change it to electric hits except for the last one (normal strong hit)

that, if the idea of keeping their UpBs basic concepts is still on

 

[Rage83]

is that copyright stuff for sMash 64 real THO ? know it's just 64 models and levels for PM but still

quote

"The Reality 64 team was left aghast at this recent affront from the Project M development team. They knew full well we had been working on the premiere Smash 64 mod, and to see this recent trailer leaves us disgusted. If Project M does not plan on stopping this project we plan to take whatever legal action necessary to see to it this mod will never become available."

twas a joke. recent events make it worse, though.

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

Let's start by having our 12 original characters, shall we ? xD

Of course! But it's fun to theorycraft and keeps the thread alive with relevant info.

I could imagine Falco being a mix of his Melee and Brawl self; the cool thing is that Melee Falco isn't a clone of 64 Fox, so to borrow more from Melee wouldn't create more homogeneity between them. I hope Falco's shine has its Melee properties, to allow him the strong shine-centric combo game that we all know and love. It'd make sense to retain this, since not only is it a definable function of Falco's most popular iteration in the series, but it'd translate well to 64's philosophy (at least in my mind), and it'd make Falco more unique in a 64 environment since Fox doesn't rely on shine for comboing.

I don't know about making his Up+B Phantasm; that'd mean that Falco would have no vertical recovery whatsoever, which is dumb. To differentiate the recoveries of Fox and Falco, why not just make his Fire Bird shorter with no hitboxes on startup, and have it be a multihit attack? That way, it'd be a combination of Melee and Brawl's and be different enough from Fox's. It'd grant him both a horizontal and vertical recovery, and also make him more of a glass cannon due to no flames and the SDI-able nature of it.

I wonder how lasers will be differentiated though (if at all), since Fox's lasers in 64 stun, and Falco's stunning lasers are iconic to his character across the series.