Reality 64: A Smash 64 Mod For Brawl [Not Quite The End | Page 26]

[PlateProp]

Spoiler: How Falco's lasers will be differentiated

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

That's fantastic.

In all seriousness, it doesn't even matter if they're technically the same; they could function different in how the character has to use them effectively. (Even then, they don't even have to!)

OH WAIT, that reminds me; aren't Fox's lasers super long in 64? Falco's lasers can just be shorter than his and remain the length they always have been.

 

[PlateProp]

That's fantastic.

In all seriousness, it doesn't even matter if they're technically the same; they could function different in how the character has to use them effectively. (Even then, they don't even have to!)

OH WAIT, that reminds me; aren't Fox's lasers super long in 64? Falco's lasers can just be shorter than his and remain the length they always have been.

They're actually shorter hitbox wise in 64 than any other game, there's only two hitboxes at the very front of the laser and the rest is just a trail

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

That's dumb.

 

[Obskore]

what if it worked similar to the Ray Gun? except the laser has way less range, like about as long as dreamland's base platform but rewards aim and timing. i would let the frame data up to you though

 

[PlateProp]

I dunno what we'll end up doing with him. But if the thing I just did stays in everyone's probably gonna hate falco first patch he's in

i just want animations so i can go back to working on the og 12 instead of making dumb op shiet

 

[Kamineigh]

I don't know about making his Up+B Phantasm; that'd mean that Falco would have no vertical recovery whatsoever, which is dumb. To differentiate the recoveries of Fox and Falco, why not just make his Fire Bird shorter with no hitboxes on startup, and have it be a multihit attack? That way, it'd be a combination of Melee and Brawl's and be different enough from Fox's. It'd grant him both a horizontal and vertical recovery, and also make him more of a glass cannon due to no flames and the SDI-able nature of it.

My suggestion of the Phantasm being the Up Special wasn't that it'd only move horizontally. That'd be stupid. It'd be a Phantasm that could be angled in any direction, like the Fire Bird, but with the attack properties of a Phantasm.

Hmm. Perhaps Falco's reflector could use a different design to further differentiate him from Fox, similar to how Wolf's reflector is a pair of pink crescents. Cosmetically, I'm thinking it could look like the blue triangles that orbit an Arwing when it does a roll.



I decided to boot up Smash 64 from my Wii U's Wii Mode. I figured I'd finally try and unlock Falcon and Ness. Couldn't get Ness, but I managed to get Falcon.

I've been playing around with the good Captain, and I noticed something about his aerials in Smash 64. His forward air animation is the same one used for his neutral air in Melee onwards. His neutral air is a boring old sex kick. It comes out strong, and deals weak damage if you don't land the initial hit, just like his Knee of Justice.

Is is just me, or did Melee switch Falcon's forward and neutral aerials?

Regardless, I thought it was pretty neat, and I was wondering - will Reality 64's Falcon have the knee as his neutral air, or will it be the classic sex kick?

When you guys eventually get to Charizard, I think it'd be neat if Flamethrower was changed to function the same way it did for the Pokéball Charizard from 64.

ALSO! I'd love to contribute to this project in some manner, though I lack specific tools. I do have access to the Smash 4 Stage Builder, and I'd love to design platform layouts for the stages. Currently, I'm messing around with Saffron City, and it's gotten me thinking about a common complaint I've heard about Brawl modding.

Is there a particular reason that modded stages can't have hazards? Like Project M's Version of Saffron City. What was stopping them from making an explosive hitbox appear every once in a while? Is it like a character, where they're limited by the resources that the stage itself has? Or is it because of something else?

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

Well Fox and Falco don't even need to be differentiated in the first place really; giving Falco what is essentially a new move for his recovery doesn't make much sense considering Fire Bird is just fine. How would the Phantasm be functionally different from Fire Bird beside having a spike hitbox, faster startup, faster speed, a frame of intangibility, and being clankable? (Which would be too much for Falco). It sounds like making it drastically different just to make it different, and if you scale those properties I listed down then it's essentially just going to turn into Fire Bird. People already expect how Fire Bird would function, too, but who will ever think to angle Phantasm? Their shine animations being the same is fine, too; no one gets them confused (and they both have the same model of shine anywho.)

I'm imagining that Falcon would keep his 64 moveset, as this game is based around recreating 64. And yeah, Ness is a hard one to get. It took me a lot of tries, keep at it and you'll get him though.

 

[PlateProp]

My suggestion of the Phantasm being the Up Special wasn't that it'd only move horizontally. That'd be stupid. It'd be a Phantasm that could be angled in any direction, like the Fire Bird, but with the attack properties of a Phantasm.

Hmm. Perhaps Falco's reflector could use a different design to further differentiate him from Fox, similar to how Wolf's reflector is a pair of pink crescents. Cosmetically, I'm thinking it could look like the blue triangles that orbit an Arwing when it does a roll.



I decided to boot up Smash 64 from my Wii U's Wii Mode. I figured I'd finally try and unlock Falcon and Ness. Couldn't get Ness, but I managed to get Falcon.

I've been playing around with the good Captain, and I noticed something about his aerials in Smash 64. His forward air animation is the same one used for his neutral air in Melee onwards. His neutral air is a boring old sex kick. It comes out strong, and deals weak damage if you don't land the initial hit, just like his Knee of Justice.

Is is just me, or did Melee switch Falcon's forward and neutral aerials?

Regardless, I thought it was pretty neat, and I was wondering - will Reality 64's Falcon have the knee as his neutral air, or will it be the classic sex kick?

When you guys eventually get to Charizard, I think it'd be neat if Flamethrower was changed to function the same way it did for the Pokéball Charizard from 64.

ALSO! I'd love to contribute to this project in some manner, though I lack specific tools. I do have access to the Smash 4 Stage Builder, and I'd love to design platform layouts for the stages. Currently, I'm messing around with Saffron City, and it's gotten me thinking about a common complaint I've heard about Brawl modding.

Is there a particular reason that modded stages can't have hazards? Like Project M's Version of Saffron City. What was stopping them from making an explosive hitbox appear every once in a while? Is it like a character, where they're limited by the resources that the stage itself has? Or is it because of something else?

Pm me your email and we'll set something up. I can show you where to get brawlbox and all that other crap. No idea why stages cant have hazards appear though

 

[Rimjo]

My suggestion of the Phantasm being the Up Special wasn't that it'd only move horizontally. That'd be stupid. It'd be a Phantasm that could be angled in any direction, like the Fire Bird, but with the attack properties of a Phantasm.

Hmm. Perhaps Falco's reflector could use a different design to further differentiate him from Fox, similar to how Wolf's reflector is a pair of pink crescents. Cosmetically, I'm thinking it could look like the blue triangles that orbit an Arwing when it does a roll.



I decided to boot up Smash 64 from my Wii U's Wii Mode. I figured I'd finally try and unlock Falcon and Ness. Couldn't get Ness, but I managed to get Falcon.

I've been playing around with the good Captain, and I noticed something about his aerials in Smash 64. His forward air animation is the same one used for his neutral air in Melee onwards. His neutral air is a boring old sex kick. It comes out strong, and deals weak damage if you don't land the initial hit, just like his Knee of Justice.

Is is just me, or did Melee switch Falcon's forward and neutral aerials?

Regardless, I thought it was pretty neat, and I was wondering - will Reality 64's Falcon have the knee as his neutral air, or will it be the classic sex kick?

When you guys eventually get to Charizard, I think it'd be neat if Flamethrower was changed to function the same way it did for the Pokéball Charizard from 64.

ALSO! I'd love to contribute to this project in some manner, though I lack specific tools. I do have access to the Smash 4 Stage Builder, and I'd love to design platform layouts for the stages. Currently, I'm messing around with Saffron City, and it's gotten me thinking about a common complaint I've heard about Brawl modding.

Is there a particular reason that modded stages can't have hazards? Like Project M's Version of Saffron City. What was stopping them from making an explosive hitbox appear every once in a while? Is it like a character, where they're limited by the resources that the stage itself has? Or is it because of something else?

All of the original 12 characters from 64 will have their animations reverted to their original appearances. I'll get to falcon after work on fox. Falcon will take much less time to animate compared to fox.

 

[Sluigi123]

Is there a particular reason that modded stages can't have hazards? Like Project M's Version of Saffron City. What was stopping them from making an explosive hitbox appear every once in a while? Is it like a character, where they're limited by the resources that the stage itself has? Or is it because of something else?

It is due to coding restrictions in the game, which is heavily hard-coded; however, you can change the hitbox properties or hazard properties via rel editing or animating respectfully, which is stage-dependent. That's as far as I know for certain.

 

[Kamineigh]

Well Fox and Falco don't even need to be differentiated in the first place really; giving Falco what is essentially a new move for his recovery doesn't make much sense considering Fire Bird is just fine. How would the Phantasm be functionally different from Fire Bird beside having a spike hitbox, faster startup, faster speed, a frame of intangibility, and being clankable? (Which would be too much for Falco). It sounds like making it drastically different just to make it different, and if you scale those properties I listed down then it's essentially just going to turn into Fire Bird. People already expect how Fire Bird would function, too, but who will ever think to angle Phantasm? Their shine animations being the same is fine, too; no one gets them confused (and they both have the same model of shine anywho.)

I'm imagining that Falcon would keep his 64 moveset, as this game is based around recreating 64. And yeah, Ness is a hard one to get. It took me a lot of tries, keep at it and you'll get him though.

Well Fire Bird with a Phantasm animation would be neat, since you proposed earlier that it wouldn't hit at the start-up, but would be multihit. The ghosting images could easily be where the multihit comes from.

Pm me your email and we'll set something up. I can show you where to get brawlbox and all that other crap. No idea why stages cant have hazards appear though

I tried Brawl hacking and TF2 modding a long time ago, but never could figure anything out. I've been more of an ideas and concept art guy. I believe that there's a Yogi Bear/Wally Gator hat mod for the Heavy out there somewhere that I concepted.

I also don't have a functioning computer. I literally do everything from my Wii U, so all I can do to contribute is concept art for stages made in Art Academy: Home Studio and Smash 4's stage builder.

All of the original 12 characters from 64 will have their animations reverted to their original appearances. I'll get to falcon after work on fox. Falcon will take much less time to animate compared to fox.

Ah. I was just wondering.

So will this mean that Luigi is basically Mario's clone again, or will elements from the sequels be taken into account to re-Luigify him?

It is due to coding restrictions in the game, which is heavily hard-coded; however, you can change the hitbox properties or hazard properties via rel editing or animating respectfully, which is stage-dependent. That's as far as I know for certain.

By stage-dependant, do you mean something like how BaganSmashBros has to make K. Rool over Tink, because Tink has projectiles with models, and he can't give modelled projectiles to someone who never had them, like Bowser?

So if a stage like Saffron City were to have Pokémon appear, it'd have to go over a stage where Pokémon appear, like Spear Pillar?

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

But then why even make it look like Phantasm when it would functionally be Fire Bird? It'd be more work to implement that, and people wouldn't suspect to aim it like they do with the Fire Bird animation.

 

[Kamineigh]

Even if it paused at the start? I'm just saying, Falco would be really boring if his only aesthetic difference from Fox is that his blaster shoots blue plasma instead of Fox's red plasma.

It's the entire reason why in Brawl, Falco started kicking his reflector.

Sure, his attacks might behave differently, but if they don't look at least somewhat different, then you may as well just be playing a blue Fox.

Here's an idea! In Brawl Minus, the flames that show up around Fox when he taunts and charges Fire Fox were changed to be blue. What if for this, Falco's charging for Fire Bird were made to be blue, and the fire in the attack was changed to the aura effect, so it looks like he uses blue fire, instead of Fox's red?

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

Sure, his attacks might behave differently, but if they don't look at least somewhat different, then you may as well just be playing a blue Fox.

 

[Rimjo]

Hey guys. Your handy dandy animator here. Check out Ness's down air.
http://gfycat.com/RedNegligibleKatydid
Sadly, gfycat removed the feature to slow down gfys in browser with a recent update. So, if you want to slow down this recording to see more of it in detail, you can click onto the gfy and scroll through each frame using your mouse, or right click in firefox and slow down the playback (don't believe this is available in chrome, not sure about other browsers.) Hope y'all like it!

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

That looks sick; nicely done!

 

[Kamineigh]

It looks nice! I'm gonna love beating the snot out of him for all the pain he's put me through. I've been trying for two days now, and I still can't unlock him.

Is it possible to mod the unlock requirements for characters? Because it might be neat if the original secret characters were unlocked the same way they were in 64 version.

 

[Sluigi123]

By stage-dependant, do you mean something like how BaganSmashBros has to make K. Rool over Tink, because Tink has projectiles with models, and he can't give modelled projectiles to someone who never had them, like Bowser?

So if a stage like Saffron City were to have Pokémon appear, it'd have to go over a stage where Pokémon appear, like Spear Pillar?

That is correct. If we were to put in something brand new into the mod, we'd have to hard-code it into the game, via putting codes in the GCT file.

 

[Kamineigh]

I think I've got it. But let's se if I understand completely.

So, let's say you wanted Saffron City to have hazards - You can, so long as the stage it replaces had hazards to begin with.

Let's say you choose to replace Spear Pillar - and you replace Cresselia, Dialga, and Palkia with Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres respectively. But Spear Pillar will never have more than one Pokémon per match, as determined at random before the match begins.

Because of Spear Pillar's one-Pokémon-per-match limit, Saffron City would have the same limit, correct? So you'd have Zapdos as a hazard in one match, and Articuno in the next, but never both within the same match?

 

[Sluigi123]

I think I've got it. But let's se if I understand completely.

So, let's say you wanted Saffron City to have hazards - You can, so long as the stage it replaces had hazards to begin with.

Let's say you choose to replace Spear Pillar - and you replace Cresselia, Dialga, and Palkia with Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres respectively. But Spear Pillar will never have more than one Pokémon per match, as determined at random before the match begins.

Because of Spear Pillar's one-Pokémon-per-match limit, Saffron City would have the same limit, correct? So you'd have Zapdos as a hazard in one match, and Articuno in the next, but never both within the same match?

That is correct.

 

[Kamineigh]

Thanks for helping me understand. I'm a bit slow when it comes to understanding extremely specific topics.

 

[Zarx1554]

Why would you add stage hazards?

 

[Kamineigh]

Why wouldn't you add stage hazards? In Smash 64, only four stages lacked hazards, only three of them could be played on in-game, and none of them could be used in Versus without a cheating device.

 

[Zarx1554]

We're trying to make a game that's similar to Smash 64, not replicate it. I, along with a lot of people would prefer to have a ore competitively viable game. Smash 64's scene didn't have much of a choice. Adding something completely new into Brawl is no easy task. Heck, even the PMDT didn't want to add Shadow Ball to Kirby. Fortunately though, for people who do want Stage Hazards, all it is possible for all of the N64 Stages ports, because of the stages they replace. Just don't expect them any time soon if ever.

 

[Kamineigh]

Hmmm. Well if the files necessary to use Brawlbox can fit onto a USB drive, I might just take a crack at the stages.

'Sides, I've got nothing better to do, so learning about it shouldn't be too hard, and it'd look good on a resumé to say that I have experience working with 3D models.

Since I'd be just starting out, it would probably be wise for me to stick to simple hazardless stages for the beginning, and then work my way up to the hazards.

 

[NhgrtPlayer]

I'd like to help with posing the CSPs and preparing some of the custom files, may I ?
Also, are you taking Project M or Brawl as a base for the mod ?

 

[Zarx1554]

I'd like to help with posing the CSPs and preparing some of the custom files, may I ?
Also, are you taking Project M or Brawl as a base for the mod ?

We don't need help with that and we are using Brawl as a base.
Also, a darkness has risen...

Spoiler

I promised and delivered.

 

[metaknight120]

We don't need help with that and we are using Brawl as a base.
Also, a darkness has risen...

Spoiler

I promised and delivered.

Can't tell if it's smash 64 concept art link with those proportions or young link, probably the former

 

[Kamineigh]

Holy moly, the models are gonna be based on the Smash 64 character art?

 

[Zarx1554]

Holy moly, the models are gonna be based on the Smash 64 character art?

Yup, here are some of the original renders that I've already revealed. Note that I have already changed Link and Mario. Fox will need heavy revamping.
64 Mario

Spoiler

Link

Spoiler

Dk (Definitely not the final render)

Spoiler

Fox

Spoiler

And not to mention the recolors.

 

[Kamineigh]

OH MY GOD THAT'S AWESOME! And here I thought this was gonna use N64 models. This looks so much better, because honestly, Mario and Luigi looked like potatoes in that game.

Something about Mario's left(our right) eye seems off, and Link looks adorable as hell. DK looks like he is wearing a store-bought DK costume, with a creepy eyehole mask. He also seems to be missing the thumbs on his feet.

I take it Dark Link is just a shadow wth eyes, like in Zelda II? Because I recall OoT Dark Link being a translucent grey color.

Will all of the other characters be getting this treatment? Because if so, I could whip up some concepts for the rest of the cast in 64's art-style using Art Academy for the Wii U.
I have some time to kill while I watch the Donkey Kong cartoon for BaganSmashBros*. The art style is simple enough that I could whip up a couple of concepts a day.

*He needs sounds for K. Rool, and the biggest database of K. Rool's voice is that cartoon. The theme song is stuck in my head! Help!

 

[Sluigi123]

Our entire roster will be getting the 64-Art-Style treatment.

You can PM those concepts to me, Rimjo, or Zarx. Your choice.

 

[metaknight120]

But the real question is
Which Zero Suit Samus?

 

[Zarx1554]

But the real question is
Which Zero Suit Samus?

Obviously Super Metroid's Z Suit. And we will definitely not use any original 64 models. For one Low-Poly is ugly, and I think we would get a C & D for using those models. For the characters out of the original 12, I think we should model them around 64 Link. I'm not sure how we're going to do Pikachu though. Maybe Fat Pikachu?

 

[Kamineigh]

'Thin' Pikachu matches 64's art style better.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Pikachu_SSB.png

I'll probably design some alternative colorations for Pikachu's other costume, so that a tiny hat isn't the only thing that tells you what costume Pikachu is using.


I figure ZSS could have two different outfits. The two piece outfit is the default, and the full body suit is an alt. Then her colors would go like this.

Default Two-Piece: Black(Super Metroid), Orange(Zero Mission), Dark Blue(Fusion).
Alt Full Body: Light Blue(Zero Mission), Pink and White(Metroid), Green and White(Based on her appearance at the end of Metroid II).


(Warning, rambling ahead. I tend to do this in order to work out how I draw stuff.)

I'm thinking Toon Link is the default modern representation of a 'young Link', but rather than revert to Melee and have two N64 Links, I figure Toon Link could be replaced with the Link from Link to the Past, Awakening, and the Oracle games, who was the 'young Link' up until the N64 Era.

This way, instead of portraying the Timeline Split, the mod instead portrays the two main types of Zelda game. 2D Top-down(Like LttP and Four Swords) and 3D Camera-hovering-behind-Link(Like OoT and TP).

With the other two Zelda characters, I think it'd be best to amalgamate their various incarnations, rather than stick to a single specific Zelda or Ganon(dorf).

 

[metaknight120]

'
I'm thinking Toon Link is the default modern representation of a 'young Link', but rather than revert to Melee and have two N64 Links, I figure Toon Link could be replaced with the Link from Link to the Past, Awakening, and the Oracle games, who was the 'young Link' up until the N64 Era.

This way, instead of portraying the Timeline Split, the mod instead portrays the two main types of Zelda game. 2D Top-down(Like LttP and Four Swords) and 3D Camera-hovering-behind-Link(Like OoT and TP).

With the other two Zelda characters, I think it'd be best to amalgamate their various incarnations, rather than stick to a single specific Zelda or Ganon(dorf).

So basically make Toon Link into "Classic Link"
We talking Toon Link's Sixth alt, his eigth alt in smash 4, his hyrule warriors costume, or http://www.zelda.com/oracle/_ui/images/img-hero.png
I like this idea. Also I look forward to your sketches simply because a 90s redesign of Lucario sounds interesting

 

[Kamineigh]

Sort of. There were two 'Classic' Links. The one from Zelda and Zelda 2, and the one from A Link to the Past, who was in the most Zelda games out of all the Links. I'm talking specifically about the Link that has pink hair in his overworld sprite for some reason.

I'm drawing Ganondorf right now. I'm gonna use his unused Oracle design as a base, since those proportions already look similar to those used in Smash 64.

I'm gonna start taking the cool bits from the other Ganondorfs, to create a sort of 'Arabian Warrior' look.


A 90's Lucario would be interesting. I like drawing Fakémon, so a simplified Gen II Lucario would be a nice challenge. Though I had been thinking that Lucario could be replaced by Mewtwo. Though I suppose since Project M can have multiple models on a single character, Reality 64 could too. It's not even like there'd need to be a voice change, since Lucario really only speaks during his Final Smash.

If we go the route of Mewtwo and Lucario being costumes of the same character, then you could give Lucario an extra costume, so that Lucario and Mewtwo would both be able to be used in team battles.

Lucario would have its Default and Shiny colors for Blue and Green Teams. (Okay, his shiny is yellow, but who cares?) I'll probably come up with a red costume based on Scizor's colors, since it is another speedy Steel-type.

Mewtwo would have its Shiny and Gen I/Gen II Default colors for his Green and Red colors. I say its Gen I and II defaults, as Mewtwo was a more saturated reddish-purple color in those Gens. Gen III and beyond made it a desaturated purple. It's blue color could come from an alt it had in the Stadium games.

And I'm mostly saying this because I love Mewtwo, and feel that it'd make sense to have it in Reality 64 in some way(alt costume being the easiest), since Mewtwo was one of the three characters in Melee that was initially supposed to be in 64, alongside Bowser and Dedede.


Speaking of Bowser and Dedede, I'll tackle them when I'm done with good ol' G-dorf. I'm thinkin' Bowser could stand more upright, like he does in Smash 4. My back hurts just looking at his poor posture in Melee and Brawl.

 

[Rimjo]

Though I had been thinking that Lucario could be replaced by Mewtwo.

We will very likely not do Mewtwo, despite how awesome it would be. Mewtwo would require a lot of animation work, and the R64 team doesn't want to take the PMDT's assets, so we'd have to make Mewtwo from scratch if we wanted to add him to the roster. Things can always change or go a different route, but for now Mewtwo is very unlikely.

 

[metaknight120]

A 90's Lucario would be interesting. I like drawing Fakémon, so a simplified Gen II Lucario would be a nice challenge. Though I had been thinking that Lucario could be replaced by Mewtwo. Though I suppose since Project M can have multiple models on a single character, Reality 64 could too. It's not even like there'd need to be a voice change, since Lucario really only speaks during his Final Smash.

If we go the route of Mewtwo and Lucario being costumes of the same character, then you could give Lucario an extra costume, so that Lucario and Mewtwo would both be able to be used in team battles.

Lucario would have its Default and Shiny colors for Blue and Green Teams. (Okay, his shiny is yellow, but who cares?) I'll probably come up with a red costume based on Scizor's colors, since it is another speedy Steel-type.

Mewtwo would have its Shiny and Gen I/Gen II Default colors for his Green and Red colors. I say its Gen I and II defaults, as Mewtwo was a more saturated reddish-purple color in those Gens. Gen III and beyond made it a desaturated purple. It's blue color could come from an alt it had in the Stadium games.

And I'm mostly saying this because I love Mewtwo, and feel that it'd make sense to have it in Reality 64 in some way(alt costume being the easiest), since Mewtwo was one of the three characters in Melee that was initially supposed to be in 64, alongside Bowser and Dedede.

I was under the impression that if Mewtwo were to get into this game it'd be through clone engine, since alts that change a character's identity often come off as sloppy due to lack of announcer clips changing and nametags. Honestly Mewtwo might be looking a bit far ahead regardless of whether or not the mod will use clone engine. I'd rather not be the one to open floodgates on clone engine discussion, though.