Re-Re-Revisited Wobbling Legality

[RockinRudy]

Alright now that EVO is over.​

Do you think Wobbling will be legal in any type of tournament again?​

Just look at PP's face during the match.​

It looks like he was getting very frustrated.​

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​

So.​

Legalize it or keep it banned?​

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​

 

[Zhea]

Nope, lock dis ****.

 

[RockinRudy]

Nope, lock dis ****.

Nope.avi​

​

 

[Xyzz]

Legolize it, imo.

 

[Corona]

Unless there is a sudden IC surge that is comparable to the MK surge in Brawl, legalize it. It is about time there was a character that can push into the A/S tier.

 

[danieljosebatista]

Let's ban laser shine bair

 

[choknater]

it is very powerful
and some would say
dumb
and broken

but it should be legal because it's not game breaking

pp's frustration has nothing to do with its legality
he was frustrated for the whole top 8 lol

 

[tarheeljks]

it's pretty lame, but lots of stuff is pretty lame so w/e

 

[SacaSuMoto]

http://smashboards.com/threads/so-t...because-of-wobbles-performance-at-evo.338636/

 

[The Darkness]

just kill nana

 

[Mahone]

You should see me when i play pp, i look even more frustrated, lets just ban lasers

 

[Jonas]

You want to ban it because PP got frustrated about it?

 

[EpixAura]

IC's are dealt with so easily by so many characters. Even if you wouldn't call it 'unwinnable' with wobbling, IC's still are notably weaker than say, Fox. They can certainly be more frustrating than most, or really any, characters, but if frustration was ban-worthy then Brawl as a game would be illegal. I'd much rather deal with Melee IC's than a good portion of the Brawl cast.

 

[Glide24]

The thing about the Ice Climbers is that Wobbles is the only person who can convert the majority of his grabs into kills. If you watch Fly or Choknator you'll see them generally convert a grab into about 40% and only a kill if it's at high percent. What Wobbles makes look so easy is actually incredible to do consistently. Unless the metagame sees a huge surge of Ice Climber mains all taking advantage of the infinite, it's not even an issue. The Ice Climbers are a very difficult character to play and they aren't at all over-powered or too easy with wobbling.

 

[RockinRudy]

You want to ban it because PP got frustrated about it?

nope.avi​

I want it off the rule list.​

 

[Nimbus]

I've always thought Wobbling was fine under two restrictions:

1. If it's not used for stalling
and,
2. If it isn't used for the last kill.

That being said, the strategy against ICs doesn't change a bit with the legalization or banning of Wobbling. Keep 'em separated while killing Nana ASAP, and don't get grabbed. I think it should really end up being an "at the discretion of the TOs" kind of deal.

Just my take.

 

[Archangel]

I think it should be banned. I don't want to wait to see others doing that nonsense. if Chu was at that tournament and he decided to wobble....would've been 2 IC's in top 8. Now, Alot of the other IC's didn't do as well as Wobbles...but they also got kinda bracket ****ed by peaches whom which Wobbles was fortunate enough to avoid. Still, I just don't think there is a place for it in this game....Seeing what IC's currently do in Brawl I think we should ban it.

With that said...the reasoning by the creator of this thread is just....wtf.

 

[KirbyKaze]

So what you're saying is that a character can be bracket-****ed by another (better) character's existence but they're still too good and need to be nerfed.

If we were banning things based on frustration induced on others, HBox would have been gone a long time ago. That's just not how we do things around here. On that note, you all should know I'm pretending the stage list legality discussions never happened so don't even try to call me out on that one.

Have a nice day everyone!

 

[All_Characters]

For legality, what's the difference between wobbling and the freeze glitch?

 

[stelzig]

Freeze glitch doesn't auto-rack up damage to keep going so you can't put a damage cap rule to prevent stalling. I'm sure you could think of some other rule, but yeah that's at least 1 difference.

(it also isn't in PAL hehehehe)

 

[Walbytamer11]

In all honesty, I'm on the edge about it. Certainly wobbling is what puts IC's on that spot in the tier list, right? Regardless it just totally destroys the other players momentum.

If it weren't for the scarcity of IC's I think that people would be more against wobbling. Evo certainly opened peoples eyes.

 

[JKJ]

Wobbling should be legal. This debate should not exist.
We do not ban strategies just because they are lame/boring. IC's already have an insane grab game without Wobbling. They don't need Wobbling to be exceptional characters, especially against spacies, where they can already 0-Death CG without Wobbling. The legalization of Wobbling just further unlocks an (by the standard of other top tiers) underpowered character's already-potent grab game. Don't get grabbed vs IC's. That's it. If you get grabbed by IC's as a spacie, you should expect to die regardless of Wobbling's legality. If you are a floaty, IC's never really had very effective punish tools on floaties before wobbling; legalizing it just allows the character to do what it is meant to do, which is to punish heavily off of grabs. Don't get grabbed. Keep them separated. That has always been the vs. IC's game plan, Wobbling just makes getting grabbed a bit more dangerous than it already was. If you play effectively vs. IC's, you shouldn't get Wobbled. Wobbles' setups into Wobbling are extremely advanced, and he is just a very talented player.

 

[All_Characters]

It wouldn't be too hard to make some kind of stall cap, actually i'm pretty sure freeze glitch is a lot faster than wobbling.

To illustrate how in reality both are the same (I think)

Freeze glitch should be legal. This debate should not exist.
We do not ban strategies just because they are lame/boring. IC's already have an insane grab game without Freeze glitch. They don't need Freeze glitch to be exceptional characters, especially against spacies, where they can already 0-Death CG without Freeze glitch. The legalization of Freeze glitch just further unlocks an (by the standard of other top tiers) underpowered character's already-potent grab game. Don't get grabbed vs IC's. That's it. If you get grabbed by IC's as a spacie, you should expect to die regardless of Freeze glitch legality. If you are a floaty, IC's never really had very effective punish tools on floaties before Freeze glitch; legalizing it just allows the character to do what it is meant to do, which is to punish heavily off of grabs. Don't get grabbed. Keep them separated. That has always been the vs. IC's game plan, Freeze glitch just makes getting grabbed a bit more dangerous than it already was. If you play effectively vs. IC's, you shouldn't get Freeze glitch. Wobbles' setups into Freeze glitch are extremely advanced, and he is just a very talented player.

 

[MrHazuki]

I don't think anyone who practises wobbling can relate, but for the rest of us it is a good article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship.
Ban it.

 

[JKJ]

It is quite ridiculous to equate wobbling to bad sportsmanship. A tactic that is effective, and does not make a character overpowered or broken when allowed, should not be banned, and are not unsportsmanlike. Ledge-grab limits should also summarily be dismissed, however impossible ledge camping may make the vs. Puff or vs. Sheik matchups as specific characters. It is not game-breaking. It does not make the IC's move up in the tier list. If they are kept separated, it can never happen, and they should always be separated if you are in control of the match. If you are in a position vs IC's where they trick you and net a grab or techchase you and net a grab, you deserve to die as you are in a disadvantageous position. It is tantamount to getting grabbed by Sheik on FD (as most viable characters), or getting CG'd by anyone. Getting grabbed by a Fox (as a spacie) on FD should result in death, but there is no call to ban that chaingrab. Marth netting a grab on a spacie should convert to death on FD, but there is no call for a ban there. Sheik netting a grab on most stages against most high tier characters should result in death (or close to it) if the Sheik capitalizes with a tech chase properly, but nobody is banning Sheik's CG. If we ban wobbling, I would impose a ban on all chaingrabs, for it is nothing more than the best chaingrab in the game.

 

[Ezzee]

I don't think anyone who practises wobbling can relate, but for the rest of us it is a good article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship.
Ban it.

Really? Sportsmanship? It's not even that great. Getting grabs is harder at a high level of play, and the conditions have to be perfect for someone to wobble you. It takes both of them and Nana has to be close for it to work. I couldn't put an exact number on it, but less than half of Wobbles grabs ended up in Wobbling. Nana often wasn't close enough or she was dead and killing Nana isn't incredibly hard considering she's a Level 3 CPU. If it really was that good (or cheap as you would say) then everybody would be switching to IC's, but they aren't. It's an iffy at best tactic that takes a very good player to make it work at a high level as trying to protect Nana isn't easy. I would say you're the bad sport here by complaining about something that just because you can't play against it.

 

[Engo]

Close plz. Nothing that hasn't already been discussed will come of this.

 

[Beat!]

I don't think anyone who practises wobbling can relate, but for the rest of us it is a good article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship.
Ban it.

"A sore loser refers to one who does not take defeat well"

Sounds about right.

 

[JKJ]

What?
Except for that one time I remember Wobbles threw his controller vs. SilentSpectre.... idk what you're referring to

 

[Beat!]

I was talking about people who oppose wobbling, not about Wobbles, lol.

 

[JKJ]

Oh, ok. Sorry for the confusion.