Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[JCKirbs]

You can tell how many people here don’t know anything about Doom if they think the rip and tear stuff is a staple to the series. More people need to play the original Doom.

Well, that's awesome because now I sound like a hypocrite lol

 

[cmbsfm]

Even the original Doom (By that I mean the game released in 1993) had no shortage on the blood. Mortal Kombat aside, it was probably the game filled with the most blood back in those days. Again, the Demons and Zombies you faced (Not to mention Doomguy himself if you weren't careful [or probably tried to take on the Cyberdemon without the BFG on hand]) regularly exploded into a bloody mess if dealt enough damage. It's tame by today's standards, but there is no doubt that the blood and gore was ALWAYS there. (Note: I am NOT counting Wolfenstein. That game was a reskinned Doom, without the blood and gore.). Doom has always been a bloody, violent game, with foul language being pretty common too.

Yeah of course it had blood. But that’s no problem considering the original Doom isn’t anywhere near as violent as the Bayonetta games. The common issue is that people keeping saying he’s not Doomguy if he’s not ripping his opponent’s heads off or punching through them, when that’s a new mechanic in the series that was never in the original except through a mod. Plus, there’s nothing stopping them from incorporating glory kills in a creative way but tone down the violence a bit.

 

[Nquoid]

Yeah of course it had blood. But that’s no problem considering the original Doom isn’t anywhere near as violent as the Bayonetta games. The common issue is that people keeping saying he’s not Doomguy if he’s not ripping his opponent’s heads off or punching through them, when that’s a new mechanic in the series that was never in the original except through a mod. Plus, there’s nothing stopping them from incorporating glory kills in a creative way but tone down the violence a bit.

But I wouldn't say the selling point of Bayonetta is the gore. Doom has always been seen as the violent game, even back in the 90s. Whilst the 90s game are comparatively less violent, they were definitely controversial and the series has leaned into that over the years, leading to the Glory Kills in modern Doom. Hell even in Doom 1 your health bar is your face getting increasingly more bloodied.

Gore is intrinsic to Doom as much as being the originator of FPS gameplay. I'm sure a lot of people want it, even its going to be toned down. But I do wonder if some Doom fans will turn their nose up at it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

But I wouldn't say the selling point of Bayonetta is the gore. Doom has always been seen as the violent game, even back in the 90s. Whilst the 90s game are comparatively less violent, they were definitely controversial and the series has leaned into that over the years, leading to the Glory Kills in modern Doom. Hell even in Doom 1 your health bar is your face getting increasingly more bloodied.

Gore is intrinsic to Doom as much as being the originator of FPS gameplay. I'm sure a lot of people want it, even its going to be toned down. But I do wonder if some Doom fans will turn their nose up at it.

I mean, I turned my nose up at 2016 Doom because it took the false perception of what Doom is and made into an actual game. Doom without the needless gore is Doom to me. I don't think gore was ever intrinsic to Doom like it is to Mortal Kombat (before 2016 at least).

 

[Sonsa]

Ayo, I'll weigh in a bit on Phoenix Wright, the other two I don't think are very likely for this fighter pass, but hey, anything's possible, and I hope people are happy and I'm sure Sakurai and the team hopes for the same. Anyway,

Phoenix Wright!
Chance: ...tsk, at least 60%
Seems most people are worried about Resident Evil cause it's all big and successful, and hey, whoever wants a Resident Evil character, good luck, I'm sure they could get creative and make em fun. But personally, I've just seem way more fan demand for Wright than any Resident Evil character. I kinda bet Wright got more votes on the official ballot than Leon or Jill combined, and I think that's because Resident Evil gets plenty of spotlight already, and Smash doesn't really feel like home for them? Phoenix has wayyy more exclusivity with Nintendo and is considered a DS icon! Yeah, Leon's Resident Evil 4 was big on the gamecube, but Phoenix is so exclusive that sooo many people I talk to get surprised when I say he's a 3rd party, a Capcom character, they always figured he was Nintendo! They've updated their site now so I can't get a source ugh, so I guess take this with a grain of salt, but I remember an official Nintendo UK site highlighting characters, Mario, Link, Kirby, etc, and Phoenix Wright was there as the only non-Nintendo character because he's family, he's that close, Smash is home! Seeing Banjo get in from pure fan demand and Nintendo being home for them, I just don't worry about Resident Evil as competition much, from my limited perspective, I just see Phoenix get way more fan hopes than any Resident Evil character, on fan polls (which, you can't take too seriously, but they're all we have) one's from reddit and source gaming with huge numbers and attempting to reach as wide of an audience as possible, Phoenix gets in the top 10 and I don't see any Resident Evil rep rank, like, at all...!

As for other competition, eh, Dante seems to have been deconfirmed, twice counting the Kamiya poll, which I do, and Monster Hunter already got the best representation in could in Rathalos. Amaterasu is even more niche than Ace Attorney, and even then I think she's been deconfirmed by the Kamiya poll too. She'd be cool though! And for those that don't know, a couple weeks after DLC was finalized Kamiya tweeted a poll asking his fans who they'd rather have in Smash and the poll included Dante, Amaterasu, Viewtiful Joe, and Wonder Red. It got taken down like a day later cause he got annoyed by some replies, but I believe if any of those characters were in, he would have gotten a call before he put the poll up, and even if what was finalized was "one of those characters" than why wouldn't they just use the ballot, and the poll wasn't even allowed to finish, it just seems like Kamiya didn't get a call and was curious that day.

So, if we get a Capcom character, I really believe Phoenix is the number one choice, and for overall competition, he's a great choice with no problems! Sora is a big want that I'm sure did great on the ballot, but Disney owns him entirely and can be scary. A Mortal Kombat character usually isn't as fun when they can't be as violent, people still make fun of MKvsDC. Seems like the honest competition left is Crash, umm, maybe Lloyd Irving, aaand...umm...well, I mean...I don't want to be naive, but I guess that's it. And hey, people like Sora still have a shot, but y'know, just harder to say! Other cool characters like Layton also have a shot, but (from what I've seen) aren't really close to Phoenix's fan demand? The only competition (from what I've seen) at Phoenix's level is like...Crash aaand...I mean, yeah, that's about it I thiiink...everyone else is either deconfirmed, a spirit, an assist trophy, and hey, there's no solid rule that assists and spirits can't be DLC, but y'know...

Smash also prioritizes bringing in unique characters, and no one can fight like Phoenix! While we already have people that shoot guns or swing swords, Phoenix actually has a lot of potential and could have a totally fresh moveset! I've had people wonder how he'd fight since he's a lawyer, and I remind em of Isabelle and Wii Fit Trainer! Isabelle is also, like, just a mayor's assistant? And Wii Fit Trainer is just trying to have and give a good work out! Phoenix would be out on the field just lawyering, trying to provide evidence that makes a strong case! If anyone wants to see some possibilities, I made a biiig concept vid for Phoenix here, with timestamps and everything, so skip around to see what you want to see if you want! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybB1fpE8maY Phoenix also offers fun stage possibilities (but it's GATTA be some form of the courtroom) and lots of iconic music! Be careful exploring it though, you might look up a great Ace Attorney track and see youtube recommendations like "Case 5 final boss breakdown" with a very revealing thumbnail, sooo, maybe listen to the music in some incognito mode or something, maybe delete history haha, Ace Attorney is my favorite series and the story is a huuuuuge part of it, I'd hate to ruin it for anyone!

Want: 0%
I hate Phoenix. Pffft, nah, nah
100% He's been my most wanted since after I found about him after Brawl, before Smash 4. When I saw Megaman I figured maybe DLC, but Ryu first of course, but maybe now's the time...! I really hope it is! If not...oh well, hope whoever the last two are make people happy, they've done a great job so far and I'm really happy for the Joker, Hero, and definitely Banjo fans! I have no personal attachment to any of em, and Joker isn't really my style, but he's fun enough to play, and these other two look great too! And they'll be fun to fight too, especially when their passionate fans are using em! Anyway, my hopes for Phoenix have been high since November, there's no lowering em now! I'm ready to see a Leon trailer and say congrats to his fans and try to shake off whatever feelings come along with that, ready to experience what Isaac fans went though...!

Anyway, it's fun to organize my thoughts and feelings like this and read how all yall feel too, hope this ramble was fun for readers too!

 

[UberPyro64]

Doom Slayer:

Chance 70% - Honestly, one of the likeliest newcomers. With multiple teases, from Phil Spencer, one in regards to Smash, one in regards to Doom for Nintendo fans, and just an all-around major icon, I think he's going to be ripping and tearing his way into Smash very soon. Not a guarantee considering he still has competition, but I feel very confident about him.

Want: 90%. Only do I want Gordon Freeman more. Nothing quite reaches 100% now that Banjo & Kazooie are in. I'm perfectly satisfied with the current roster, but there is still a handful of character that I'd love to see.

 

[Geassguy]

Guys, Doom was on GBA, with green instead of red gore, and even then it was severely reduced. Guess what, it was still Doom.

Doom works great with gore, that's why Brutal Doom is so popular and the new games went where they went. BUT, as many others have said, as nicely as the gore goes with Doom, the GBA port more than proves it's not integral, no more than it is to Bayonetta.

Doom has plenty of silly, break-the-gravitas moments, so seeing him punch pikachu and use nintendo items, to a real fan, would not be out of place at all, and actually quite hilarious and amazing. Any good Doom fan knows the series doesn't take itself THAT seriously, it just doesn't, you carry around frickin 7 heavy weapons and a ton of ammo and yet run like a cheetah for god's sake.

 

[Neosonic97]

Guys, Doom was on GBA, with green instead of red gore, and even then it was severely reduced. Guess what, it was still Doom.

Doom works great with gore, that's why Brutal Doom is so popular and the new games went where they went. BUT, as many others have said, as nicely as the gore goes with Doom, the GBA port more than proves it's not integral, no more than it is to Bayonetta.

Doom has plenty of silly, break-the-gravitas moments, so seeing him punch pikachu and use nintendo items, to a real fan, would not be out of place at all, and actually quite hilarious and amazing. Any good Doom fan knows the series doesn't take itself THAT seriously, it just doesn't, you carry around frickin 7 heavy weapons and a ton of ammo and yet run like cheetah for god's sake.

I mean, OBVIOUSLY Doom's not COMPLETELY serious (we are talking about a guy who went and killed a huge portion of Hell's population three seperate times and can do crazy things like outrun his own rockets after they've been fired), but violence and crude language have been a part of Doom's identity since the start. Not a defining feature by any means (At least until the 2016 reboot), but the violence definitely was always there. Even the cutscenes don't spare on the nasty stuff (Like at the end of the first game, where you see a picture of the head of Doomguy's pet rabbit, Daisy, impaled on a stake).

On top of this, one particular part of Doomguy's arsenal (and perhaps the most iconic of it all) DEFINITELY would be something too problematic for Smash. I mean, it's literally called the Big ****ing Gun 9000, and even with the abbreviation, I just don't see THAT making it past the radar. And the BFG is Doomguy's most iconic weapon.

One thing I will say though that is if he DOES get in, they BETTER use the original version of At Doom's Gate.

You know the one.

 

[Geassguy]

I mean, OBVIOUSLY Doom's not COMPLETELY serious (we are talking about a guy who went and killed a huge portion of Hell's population three seperate times and can do crazy things like outrun his own rockets after they've been fired), but violence and crude language have been a part of Doom's identity since the start. Not a defining feature by any means (At least until the 2016 reboot), but the violence definitely was always there. Even the cutscenes don't spare on the nasty stuff (Like at the end of the first game, where you see a picture of the head of Doomguy's pet rabbit, Daisy, impaled on a stake).

On top of this, one particular part of Doomguy's arsenal (and perhaps the most iconic of it all) DEFINITELY would be something too problematic for Smash. I mean, it's literally called the Big ****ing Gun 9000, and even with the abbreviation, I just don't see THAT making it past the radar. And the BFG is Doomguy's most iconic weapon.

One thing I will say though that is if he DOES get in, they BETTER use the original version of At Doom's Gate.

You know the one.

Dude... violence is in Bayonetta too, yet she's still there. A ****ing giant demon head comes out and very violently eats her enemies. Gore and violence are not synonymous (the bunny head is gore btw, and wasn't in GBA Doom), and plenty of fighters come from violent series. You could argue zelda is violent for goodness sake.

Also The BFG has never been refered to by what those letters stand for in any of the games, that would not be an issue, it's just the BFG.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I mean, OBVIOUSLY Doom's not COMPLETELY serious (we are talking about a guy who went and killed a huge portion of Hell's population three seperate times and can do crazy things like outrun his own rockets after they've been fired), but violence and crude language have been a part of Doom's identity since the start. Not a defining feature by any means (At least until the 2016 reboot), but the violence definitely was always there. Even the cutscenes don't spare on the nasty stuff (Like at the end of the first game, where you see a picture of the head of Doomguy's pet rabbit, Daisy, impaled on a stake).

On top of this, one particular part of Doomguy's arsenal (and perhaps the most iconic of it all) DEFINITELY would be something too problematic for Smash. I mean, it's literally called the Big ****ing Gun 9000, and even with the abbreviation, I just don't see THAT making it past the radar. And the BFG is Doomguy's most iconic weapon.

One thing I will say though that is if he DOES get in, they BETTER use the original version of At Doom's Gate.

You know the one.

I don't see the problem, BFG is just three letters.

 

[Nquoid]

Dude... violence is in Bayonetta too, yet she's still there. A ****ing giant demon head comes out and very violently eats her enemies. Gore and violence are not synonymous, and plenty of fighters come from violent series. You could argue zelda is violent for goodness sake.

Also The BFG has never been refered to by what it stands for in any of the games, that would not be an issue, it's just the BFG.

The violence in Bayonetta and zelda arent comparable to Doom though. Doom has always been one of the most violent games of each era it's in. Doom was as controversial as Mortal Kombat in the 90s. And they've only doubled down on it over the years.

Yes Zelda and Bayonetta have violence and blood, but Bayonetta isn't as violent as something like God of War. Bayonetta 1 got a higher rating than 2 because of sexuality (and related violence). But if you go to YouTube you don't find montages of the best and goriest kills and what not. You do for games like MK and Doom though.

 

[Geassguy]

The violence in Bayonetta and zelda arent comparable to Doom though. Doom has always been one of the most violent games of each era it's in. Doom was as controversial as Mortal Kombat in the 90s. And they've only doubled down on it over the years.

Yes Zelda and Bayonetta have violence and blood, but Bayonetta isn't as violent as something like God of War. Bayonetta 1 got a higher rating than 2 because of sexuality (and related violence). But if you go to YouTube you don't find montages of the best and goriest kills and what not. You do for games like MK and Doom though.

...so? Youtube montages don't mean anything, cerrtainly not to the devs I assure you.

Again, Doom on GBA, very minimal violence, still Doom. Doom has been done before with minimal gore and a level of violence comparable to any other series in the game, and it could be easily done again.

 

[Nemuresu]

The violence in Bayonetta and zelda arent comparable to Doom though. Doom has always been one of the most violent games of each era it's in. Doom was as controversial as Mortal Kombat in the 90s. And they've only doubled down on it over the years.

Yes Zelda and Bayonetta have violence and blood, but Bayonetta isn't as violent as something like God of War. Bayonetta 1 got a higher rating than 2 because of sexuality (and related violence). But if you go to YouTube you don't find montages of the best and goriest kills and what not. You do for games like MK and Doom though.

Dude, Bayonetta literally smacks demons with giant limbs that come out of portals. She rips them apart and smashes them to the ground with blood splatter included.
If that's not as bloody as Doom, then what is it?

 

[Nquoid]

...so? Youtube montages don't mean anything, cerrtainly not to the devs I assure you.

Again, Doom on GBA, very minimal violence, still Doom. Doom has been done before with minimal gore and a level of violence comparable to any other series in the game, and it could be easily done again.

But they do speak volumes about the public perception of those games. When a new Bayonetta comes out, people aren't looking to see what new kill animations there are. And the game got less violent between 1 and 2. Yes Doom on the GBA had the violence toned down. But also, is that anyone's favourite version of Doom? Like no one is shouting out for the GBA port of Doom are they?

Dude, Bayonetta literally smacks demons with giant limbs that come out of portals. She rips them apart and smashes them to the ground with blood splatter included.
If that's not as bloody as Doom, then what is it?

Because that blood isn't presented the same. Maybe part of it is the visceral nature of it being an FPS, but the gore in Doom is a lot worse. It also helps that Bayonetta does that arcade-y thing of the enemies fading away after you kill them. Whilst in new Doom, once you kill an enemy, whether you've just them or done an incredibly violent glory kill, those bodies (or more likely chunks) stay.

Doomguy would probably be really cool. He is a gaming icon. But that doesn't change the perception that a lot of people have of him being a violent character from a violent series. Joker, Snake and Bayonetta have all been in adult rated games. But even if those characters commit gross violence, that violence is not synonymous with the average person's perception of those series.

 

[Sid-cada]

Bandanna Dee

Chance - 2.5% - Out of all the remaining Nintendo characters not in Smash, I think he's one of the most likely assuming we don't go promotional. Maybe it's just my optimism speaking, but seeing how popular he is and how he's not quite in it gives me some hope. However, he's still a spirit, and just doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the enable as of now. I don't see him any time soon.

Want - 100% - My most wanted newcomer. Been a huge Kirby fan, seeing him get in just feels right at this point. At the very least, it will prove that Sakurai truly isn't biased against representing Kirby games he has made.


Phoenix Wright

Chance - 40% - It's a hard call between him and some Resident Evil Character. I think it's fairly obvious that third parties are going to dominate the fighter's pack one. I honestly can't tell who should get in between them, but I think Sakurai ,might find more potential here? I don't know.

Want - 75% - Not exactly enthused, but I do feel that he at least deserves some acknowledgement. At the very least, I think I can have a more fun move set with him rather than any Resident Evil character.

Doom Slayer

Chance - 30% - I guess if there was a chance for another company to get in he's likely. I feel that they can keep the violence aspect okay as long as he isn't literally ripping and tearing his enemies apart; once that's done the most violent thing he can do is pull a chainsaw to the face, and Corrin already does that. Doom's legacy as the OG shooter gives him some legitimacy to him. Still, we don't know what sort of gymnastics Sakurai plays with his rules and what he considers too mature ("Yes, it looks like Joker uses guns, but it's okay, because they are just very realistic fake guns! They only work because the Persona-universe makes you think you are taking damage! Bayonetta's guns are magic, so they're okay too!). Still, he has a decent chance at appearing.

Want - 60% - Not too enthused, but I can respect his inclusion. Being the FPS while also being on Nintendo (and everywhere) gives him enough cred, but I don't care overly much.


Nominations

Cadence X5

 

[Nemuresu]

But they do speak volumes about the public perception of those games. When a new Bayonetta comes out, people aren't looking to see what new kill animations there are. And the game got less violent between 1 and 2. Yes Doom on the GBA had the violence toned down. But also, is that anyone's favourite version of Doom? Like no one is shouting out for the GBA port of Doom are they?

And who cares? Bayonetta is still a violent character. Her games being rated M was the very reason people hesitated the idea of her being in Smash to begin with. But guess what happened in the end?

Because that blood isn't presented the same. Maybe part of it is the visceral nature of it being an FPS, but the gore in Doom is a lot worse. It also helps that Bayonetta does that arcade-y thing of the enemies fading away after you kill them. Whilst in new Doom, once you kill an enemy, whether you've just them or done an incredibly violent glory kill, those bodies (or more likely chunks) stay.

Enemies fading away means jack in these games. You still kill them in really sadistic ways and that's what matters the most. You're implying that people keep looking at those dead bodies, even though they, just like in any other game, move on to the next enemy. You gotta have some real morbid curiosity or joy if you really want to look at corpses in a video game.

Doomguy would probably be really cool. He is a gaming icon. But that doesn't change the perception that a lot of people have of him being a violent character from a violent series. Joker, Snake and Bayonetta have all been in adult rated games. But even if those characters commit gross violence, that violence is not synonymous with the average person's perception of those series.

The Smash fandom loves to put restraints on to what characters can happen all the time. But aside from non-video game characters, none of them have any real influence on what's included.

 

[Nquoid]

And who cares? Bayonetta is still a violent character. Her games being rated M was the very reason people hesitated the idea of her being in Smash to begin with. But guess what happened in the end?

Enemies fading away means jack in these games. You still kill them in really sadistic ways and that's what matters the most. You're implying that people keep looking at those dead bodies, even though they, just like in any other game, move on to the next enemy. You gotta have some real morbid curiosity or joy if you really want to look at corpses in a video game.

The Smash fandom loves to put restraints on to what characters can happen all the time. But aside from non-video game characters, none of them have any real influence on what's included.

It's not about the character just being violent though. it's about how that violence is presented on screen. Resident Evil is a franchise that I think is very likely to end up in Smash. It's a game that is incredibly violent. But it's also a game where that violence feels less a part of the series identity. I know that's all subjective, but that's what the question of this thread is. What subjective reason do you think xyz character can get into Smash, and for a lot of people Doomguy is that step too far. Especially in a franchise which gave Snake all explosives and has to hand wave away that Joker and Bayonetta aren't firing bullets. Would you be happy if Smash couldn't have Doomguy with his Chainsaw or Shotgun?

An enemy exploding into a cloud of dust versus an enemy that ragdolls onto the floor and moves when you walk over it sticks with you. That is, on a fundamental level, more gory than what Japanese arcade-y hack and slash games when enemies just disappear. It's not about about morbid curiosity or joy. It's the fact that the developers programmed in something that makes the violence more realistic because there are actual corpses. That is a conscious decision on their part.

Just because people think that Doomguy is too violent doesn't put any restraint on you wanting him. It does mean that some people will think he's less likely. Clearly you don't, so more power to you.

 

[Geassguy]

An enemy exploding into a cloud of dust versus an enemy that ragdolls onto the floor and moves when you walk over it sticks with you. That is, on a fundamental level, more gory than what Japanese arcade-y hack and slash games when enemies just disappear.

None of the enemies in any Doom game ever did this upon death. In fact they often in fact do the latter; disappear immediately (DOOM 2016: everything but blood burns away within seconds, same with Doom 3, but with less blood).

 

[Nquoid]

None of the enemies in any Doom game ever did this upon death. In fact they often in fact do the latter; disappear immediately (DOOM 2016: everything but blood burns away within seconds, same with Doom 3, but with less blood).

Isn't that only after you've cleared an area? I've not actually played if since 2016, but in my head I just remember a lot of bodies and blood hanging around.

It is definitely true of the 90s Doom games. But that's partly different technology. And I would imagine Bethesda would want Doomguy to be Doom Eternal.

Like if he does make it onto the pass, it would be Smash Bros x Doom Eternal

 

[Neosonic97]

None of the enemies in any Doom game ever did this upon death. In fact they often in fact do the latter; disappear immediately (DOOM 2016: everything but blood burns away within seconds, same with Doom 3, but with less blood).

Amongst the original Doom games, only the GBA port did that. Otherwise the gibs of whatever unfortunate demon got hit by your Rocket Launcher/Plasma Gun or was anywhere near the impact of your BFG just stays there.

Also Doom 3 was a very different game than the rest of the series (Notably in the fact that it's very story-centric, moreso than any other Doom game)

 

[Geassguy]

Amongst the original Doom games, only the GBA port did that. Otherwise the gibs of whatever unfortunate demon got hit by your Rocket Launcher/Plasma Gun or was anywhere near the impact of your BFG just stays there.

Also Doom 3 was a wildly different game from the rest of the series.

That's still not "ragdolls onto the floor and moves when you walk over it", that's just some sprites that are completely stationary after animating, and there were no gibs. Some enemies would, yes, get utterly shredded by a rocket but there were no individual gibs spawned like in Quake 2, Doom was a much simpler game. There wasn't even blood splatter, just sprites.

Edit:

Isn't that only after you've cleared an area?

Nope. They disappear almost instantly in 2016.
(Source: put almost 400 hours into it, some just recently today)

 

[Neosonic97]

That's still not "ragdolls onto the floor and moves when you walk over it", that's just some sprites that are completely stationary after animating, and there were no gibs. Some enemies would, yes, get utterly shredded by a rocket but there were no individual gibs spawned like in Quake 2, Doom was a much simpler game. There wasn't even blood splatter, just sprites.

You get what I mean, though. And this is 1993, meaning the closest thing we got to what gibs would be like in Quake 2 is, again, Mortal Kombat. (To say nothing about the fact that Doom released a full four years before Quake 2, and its sequel 3 years before, so obviously graphics were worse and the hardware at the time probably couldn't handle that level of gore). Doom would be second place (amongst the era of gaming it came about, anyway). Maybe gore would be a better term since it is still showing the unfortunate fool explode into a bloody mess or be shredded by a hail of bullets.

 

[Peripuff]

Wow, I seemed to have stumbled upon a Phoenix day, guess I should say something

Chance: 50%
If you were to ask me to make a prediction on who the last two characters in the pass, Phoenix would probably be one of them, but that's mostly because I have no idea who else would be in. Capcom has such a wide variety of characters with so many fans that I have hard time seeing none of them get in, but that also means that Phoenix would have a lot of competition in terms of just Capcom characters. Ace Attorney does appear to be a popular series however, and Spirit of Justice is a fairly recent game, so he definitely has a shot, I'm just not entirely sure how strong it is.

Want: 100%
I love Ace Attorney with a passion. Phoenix Wright is my 3rd most wanted character after two characters who would not be in the fighters pass because they would either have to be an echo (Kasumi) or they were deconfirmed (Sora). Ace Attorney is so much fun and I would really like to see the kind of moveset Sakurai would make for him, especially after seeing what MvC has done.

How ironic that I saw this thread while listening to the Ace Attorney OST

 

[Geassguy]

You get what I mean, though. And this is 1993, meaning the closest thing we got to what gibs would be like in Quake 2 is, again, Mortal Kombat. (To say nothing about the fact that Doom released a full four years before Quake 2, so obviously graphics were worse). Doom would be second place (amongst the era of gaming it came about, anyway). Maybe gore would be a better term since it is still showing the unfortunate fool explode into a bloody mess or be shredded by a hail of bullets.

I acknowledge the level of gore that was indeed present, but I have also played Bayonetta and I really don't think Original Doom or Doom as a whole is worse than that, I just don't.

So, therefore I don't think he's any harder to implement than she was.

I would even argue Japan isn't completely apathetic/uncaring to the series, there's enough fans of Classic Doom over there that they made an entire, 32 map megawad, not really a small feat. IMO all that really matters is Sakurai's feelings on it, and so far he seems pretty positive towards it.

 

[Neosonic97]

I aknowlege the level of gore that was indeed present, but I have also played Bayonetta and I really don't think Original Doom or Doom as a whole is worse than that, I just don't.

So, therefore don't think he's any harder to implement than she was.

I would even argue Japan isn't completely apathetic/uncaring to the series, theres enough fans of Classic Doom over there that they made an entire, 32 map megawad, not really a small feat. IMO all that really matters is Sakurai's feelings on it, and so far he seems pretty positive towards it.

It's likely the difference in presentation. My thoughts are that, at the time of Doom's release, the hardware couldn't really handle that level of gore. (The comics are canon to the games, so Doomguy punching a hole through his commanding officer's chest over being ordered to open fire on unarmed civilians is a thing, so Doom was always meant to be pretty violent at least). There's probably a good reason as to why Brutal Doom didn't come about until 2010- 17 years after the original Doom's release.

I mean, even prior to Doom 3, where the ultraviolence started running rampant, Doom was steadily getting more gory. For instance, Doom 64 actually made it so that some demons' guts just spilled out of them.

Also, dedicated Doom Fans can do some crazy stuff. Hell, a few users on the ZDoom forums made a particularly crazy 5-episode mod (34 maps total) that made Doom cross over with, of all things, Touhou Project.

 

[Geassguy]

It's likely the difference in presentation. My thoughts are that, at the time of Doom's release, the hardware couldn't really handle that level of gore. (The comics are canon to the games, so Doomguy punching a hole through his commanding officer's chest over being ordered to open fire on unarmed civilians is a thing, so Doom was always meant to be pretty violent at least). There's probably a good reason as to why Brutal Doom didn't come about until 2010- 17 years after the original Doom's release.

I mean, even prior to Doom 3, where the ultraviolence started running rampant, Doom was steadily getting more gory. For instance, Doom 64 actually made it so that some demons' guts just spilled out of them.

This is still, also, all violence perpetrated against frickin Demons man, not other, thinking, loving, people like Mortal Kombat, and I do think that is an important distinction. Doom has by far the most "acceptable" targets you could possibly have, literal demons that are mindlessly evil.

Guess what the other Smash fighters are? Not that. This is why I also think people that wanna see Doomguy disembowel Nintendo characters to be utterly dumb and completely missing the point of both Doom and Smash (Doomguy doesn't kill innocents/non-demons).

Doom is you vs evil, Smash is heroes against other heroes (and some villains/side characters too).

Doomguy/slayer wouldn't be fighting demons in Smash, so the level of violence and gore of his series, which is all in relation to the enemies of the series, would not appear, it's as simple as that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The violence in Bayonetta and zelda arent comparable to Doom though. Doom has always been one of the most violent games of each era it's in. Doom was as controversial as Mortal Kombat in the 90s. And they've only doubled down on it over the years.

Yes Zelda and Bayonetta have violence and blood, but Bayonetta isn't as violent as something like God of War. Bayonetta 1 got a higher rating than 2 because of sexuality (and related violence). But if you go to YouTube you don't find montages of the best and goriest kills and what not. You do for games like MK and Doom though.

You know what game was also at the forefront of 90s video game violence controversy? The Resident of Evil Creek. Though you might know it better as Resident Evil.

But they do speak volumes about the public perception of those games. When a new Bayonetta comes out, people aren't looking to see what new kill animations there are. And the game got less violent between 1 and 2. Yes Doom on the GBA had the violence toned down. But also, is that anyone's favourite version of Doom? Like no one is shouting out for the GBA port of Doom are they?



Because that blood isn't presented the same. Maybe part of it is the visceral nature of it being an FPS, but the gore in Doom is a lot worse. It also helps that Bayonetta does that arcade-y thing of the enemies fading away after you kill them. Whilst in new Doom, once you kill an enemy, whether you've just them or done an incredibly violent glory kill, those bodies (or more likely chunks) stay.

Doomguy would probably be really cool. He is a gaming icon. But that doesn't change the perception that a lot of people have of him being a violent character from a violent series. Joker, Snake and Bayonetta have all been in adult rated games. But even if those characters commit gross violence, that violence is not synonymous with the average person's perception of those series.

When a new Bayonetta comes out people are absolutely looking forward to the new torture animations.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Never thought I'd come back to this game again, but if it's for my boi Phoenix Wright, I'd be happy to revisit this again.

Bandanna Waddle Dee:

Chance: 20%
Want: 75%
A bit brief - but I'm willing to accept the possibility that BWD's chances for the Fighter Pass might be limited if the Spirits deconfirm characters for a Fighters Pass 1. However, I think BWD is definitely the next in line when it comes to a new Kirby character. He's adorable and popular amongst fans and could bring a new weapon type that is not represented in Smash - lances/spears. And hey, Lances beat Swords in the Weapon Triangle, so I'm all for DeeLC to put those no-good Sword-bois in their place.

But in all seriousness. I'm all for Bandanna Waddle DeeLC. He's not super high on my priority wishlist, but I'd love to see him since I feel it's about time Kirby got a new friend in Smash Bros, so I'd be happy to see him.

Phoenix Wright:
Chance: 67%
I'm willing to bet that there is a Capcom character in the Fighters Pass at this point. The real question is who is it going to be? They may have decided to go with the juggernaut that is Resident Evil, since the franchise helped to codify many of the conventions for the survival horror genre, and decided to choose someone like Leon thanks to his connection to Nintendo via Resident Evil 4 and being relevant thanks to Resident Evil 2 Remake. Or they might have decided to go with a Monster Hunter as a late arrival DLC to complement Iceborne and the Rathalos' current inclusion in Smash as a Boss/Assist Trophy. Or they could throw us for a loop and go for a different Capcom character entirely - Amaterasu, Viewtiful Joe, Morrigan... However, this is Phoenix's RTC day, so what's the evidence that supports his case to be in Smash Bros?

The Ace Attorney series has a long-standing connection to Nintendo ever since it's debut on the GBA back in 2001, and even more so when the Trilogy was translated and ported over to the Nintendo DS. Ever since then, the series has always had close ties to Nintendo, even if Phoenix has also appeared on other platforms like PlayStation, Xbox and the like - especially since Trilogy was ported to current consoles.

Wright's also proved himself to be a decent combatant in other games as well - Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 comes to mind immediately, as well as Project X Zone 2, so Sakurai can easily go over these games as well as come up with his own version of Phoenix Wright if he's part of the Fighters Pass - be it stuff like making the Magatama and Psyche-Locks a recovery move ala Joker's Grappling Hook, collecting items as evidence, and of course, the all-important...

There's plenty of stuff available for Sakurai and the team to try and make their own version of Phoenix Wright for his appearance in Smash Bros, but I guess there's also the concern of coherency across his kit which might make him a bit all-over-the-place in Smash; and they might instead to go with a Capcom character who's seen plenty of combat in their games like the ones I mentioned earlier. However, I think Phoenix has a decent chance of being in Smash Bros, but probably a bit beaten out by characters like Leon or the Monster Hunter.

Want: 1000%.
So far - Joker and Banjo-Kazooie have blasted me to the moon and back in terms of hype. I never thought I'd see either of them in this game at all, but nope, here they are. If you ask me, there's pretty much one other character that can do that again for me, and that's none other than Phoenix Wright. I love these games so much. The stories in each game and the wacky cast of characters, the music and the great dialogue always providing a lovable dosage of courtroom drama each time.

As someone who mained Phoenix Wright in the days of UMVC3, I'd freak out as much as I did with Joker and Banjo if they revealed Phoenix Wright for Smash Bros. If he does make it, I'm probably not going to ask for anything ever again.

KNEE DEEP IN THE DOOM
Chance: 70%
Banjo-Kazooie have proved we can have Western third-parties in Smash, the door's opened up to a large number of iconic Western guests at this point. Be it Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Master Chief, etc. Today is Doomguy/Doom Slayer's day, so he's up on the block.

Doom has left quite the legacy, being the codifier of many First Person Shooter conventions alongside Quake and Wolfenstein 3D, and has a surprising connection to Nintendo, the original game with an SNES port, Doom 64, both DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal on Switch and slated for Switch release respectively... So yeah, Doomguy qualifies for the Nintendo appearance part. It also helps that Doomguy's parent company Bethesda seem to be on good terms with Nintendo, with many of their IPs on the Switch (even if they've demonstrated utter incompetence with stuff like Fallout 76, but that's not on Doomguy and id Software), so

There's of course the matter of how do you translate him to Smash Bros - What with Doom being a very gory and violent franchise. However, there are of course a number of counter-arguments - Bayonetta proves you can tone down a character while still keeping them faithful to character, and Ridley has no problem with viciously impaling people on his tail. There are several ways to make Doomguy feel visceral and brutal while still staying true to his roots. Give him some of the more futuristic weapons to avoid the real-guns issue (Pistol, Plasma Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Combat Shotgun), give him the Chainsaw for Smash attacks, and work the Glory Kills into his throws like a brutal punch, stomp, close-range shotgun blast, etc...

Doomguy has no shortage of moveset potential when it comes to Smash Bros thanks to his diverse weapons available to him. I guess what might hinder him is that the First Person Shooter genre is a relatively niche market in Japan, but now that Banjo has broken the Western guest barrier, I think there's no better choice for a new Western character like Doomguy.

Want: 85%
Rip and tear until it's all done. I was pleasantly surprised by how good DOOM 2016 turned out to be thanks to the gameplay and solid campain, and it looks like they're continuing that with DOOM Eternal. (Not a big fan of Doomguy's Steve impression though - kinda want to turn it off after having become sick of Steve lol) So yeah, I'm all up for Doomguy joining the fight in Smash Bros. He'd be an awesome inclusion.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Bandana Dee

Chance: 10%

I don't see any first party characters making it into this fighters pass from what we have seen so far. Plus Sakurai did say that every dlc character is going to have a unique spirit board and I don't think there are a lot of spirits left to accompany Bandana Dee aside from the ones already in game. I'm keeping him at a 10% because he is extremely popular and also Sakurai bias could happen.

Want: 55%

I'm not a Kirby fan but I have several friends who are Kirby fans so it would make me happy to see him get in even if I have no personal attachment to the character. Plus he has a spear which is awesome.


Phoenix Wright

Chance: 80%

This is going to be very debatable, but I think Wright is the most likely Capcom rep. He has a long history with Nintendo, the trilogy recently got ported to Switch, he was in MvC3 so there is already a precedent for a moveset, and he would be a very unique character. A Resident Evil character gives him heavy competition but the thing is that I struggle to see how unique they can be. For example, at least in terms of Leon he mainly uses a handgun and a knife, just like Joker and sakurai would want every dlc character to feel unique. Plus Wright would be easier to fit in with the Smash aesthetic better I feel. There is also Dante, but up until recently there was never a DMC game on a nintendo console and even then it was announced about 5 months after the dlc line was chosen and while I'm not in a position to know how long negotiations like that last for, I doubt it took 5 months to get dmc on switch, meaning Nintendo probably did not know DMC was coming to Switch by the time they chose the dlc characters. That hurts his chances quite a bit. And Amateratsu is arguably more niche than Ace Attorney, meaning that Wright is in a great position and while he still has competition from other japanese characters like Ryu Hayabusa and Professor Layton, he still has a pretty good shot and I have a feeling this is his chance.

Want: 100%

The Ace Attorney games are my favorites games aside from Smash Ultimate. There is a lot of potential for spirits and Wright would definitely be a what the heck character with a lot of wacky abilities. Not to mention, THE MUSIC. Hearing Cornered in the game would be freakin awesome. I love all of the pursuit, objection, and announce the truth songs and if we could get a decent mixture of all them that would be amazing. I want Wright so badly. Please make it happen Nintendo and Capcom.


Doom Slayer

Chance: 80%

Doom Slayer is one of the most likely western characters and I do believe we will be getting one more western character. He has a history with Nintendo, particularly with Doom 64 and now Doom and Doom Eternal on Switch. Bethesda was one of the very first companies to support the switch, even showing Skyrim in the Switch reveal trailer. This shows that Nintendo and Bethesda have a pretty good relationship. The only other Bethesda character that would give Doom Slayer a run for his money is Dragonborn, which has a varied array of weapons and abilities that could make him unique, even compared to the Dragon Quest hero. However, at the moment Doom is more relevant and plus Doom has the benefit of being a highly influential shooter series with the original game popularizing the fps genre. He also has competition from Spyro, Crash, Rayman and an Assassin's Creed character. However, Activision doesn't seem to be as close to Nintendo and as for Ubisoft, you would think they would get a character by now, but no. Rayman has a spirit which hurts his chances majorly and someone like Ezio would struggle to stand out against all the other sword wielders. This puts Doom Slayer in a great spot and makes him one of, if not, the most likely western character.

Want: 100%

I love Doom and Doom Slayer would be a completely fun and badass character. And of course you can't forget about the music which is the most metal thing ever.

 

[Geassguy]

To all the Phoenix Wright supporters: I hope he gets in, for real. I think he would be a great addition, and if MA BOI gets in, my gut feeling is that he'd be balanced out with another Japanese-centric pick like DQ and BK, and Wright would be a dope, zany pick to round out the pass, much like Doom Slayer but in a different way.

 

[NeonBurrito]

Coming back in here to discuss each character, because all three characters are characters I'm pretty interested in.

Bandana Waddle Dee

Chance: 1%

I'm reasonably certain that the Fighter's Pass isn't going to contain any first parties and especially not any first parties with a spirit. However, I do feel like in the case we were to get a non-promotional first party character, he'd very easily be one of the first in line.

Want: 90%

I have reformed my ways. While I was previously a rather staunch member of the "He's just a Goomba with a hat!" community, a recent playthrough of a whole bunch of Kirby games and really just following the Kirby community in general has really made me like the little guy. Plus, the fact that I'm pretty sure he's shown up in more Kirby games then Meta Knight within the past decade makes me genuinely want to go as far to say that he's probably the "most deserving" first party character that still isn't in the game.

His moveset is practically already built for him, being able to pull from the Spear ability from Return to Dream Land, his own moveset in Star Allies, his parasol moveset in Battle Royale, and if they really wanted to get crafty, they could easily pull from other Waddle Dee abilities, the Staff ability from Star Allies, and any transformations he had in Rainbow Curse. I've always been a fan of the more cartoonish characters of the cast, and Bandana Waddle Dee would certainly fill that bill for me. I think a "short stature, large range" character is something Smash Bros. could really use that it doesn't already have.

Phoenix Wright

Chance: 20%

I think he's definitely one of the most likely characters for the Fighter's Pass, because I believe that a Capcom character has a rather solid shot and it's pretty much either going to be Dante, Leon Kennedy, or him. I don't think he's the most likely of the bunch, but his ability to stay relevant through even just simple ports of his original trilogy and his immense popularity certainly give him a stake in the matter.

Want: 85%

Similarly to Bandana Waddle Dee, Feenie was never really a character I never cared much for until I really sunk my teeth into the Ace Attorney franchise a few months back and I fell in love with the series. Whether it be the characters, the setting, or especially the music, the Ace Attorney series, especially the first three games, are really something special.

Moveset wise, I definitely think he could easily be one of the most unique characters on the roster, because he's already been an incredibly unique character in a traditional fighting game before. I would also absolutely kill to see an Edgeworth echo fighter, even if Apollo would make more sense. However, even if his moveset was incredibly bland and forgettable, it'd still be worth it just to get some Ace Attorney music tracks in the game. I'd absolutely kill to get songs like Lying Coldly, Cornered, or Wanting to Find the Truth in the game.

Doomguy / Doom Slayer

Chance: 5%

I don't think he's as likely as some make him out to be, but it isn't because of his violent tendencies. In fact, I'd go as far to say that Doom's main appeal isn't the blood and guts, but rather the high-octane, fast pasted, run-and-gun gameplay, and I think that a potential Doomguy inclusion would do something very similar to Bayonetta. Get rid of the blood and guts, but keep the core gameplay ideals of their origin games in tact.

The problem I think lies within how in the case that Nintendo approaches Bethesda to talk Smash, I really think they would rather go with Dragonborn from Skyrim instead. Not only does Skyrim have a much stronger following in Japan than Doom does (source), but Skyrim itself was also used as one of the very first titles to promote the Switch. I don't think Doomguy is impossible, but I really do feel like Nintendo would rather go for Dragonborn.

Want: 60%

However, Doomguy would absolutely be a pretty great character inclusion. He undeniably deserves a spot among gaming's best, as he is the godfather of the most popular gaming genre of the past decade or so, and I'm sure that Sakurai and the Smash team would do a fantastic job at replicating the fast-paced nature of the Doom series in his moveset. Plus, Doomguy would bring in some great music tracks with him as well, whether it be the classic tunes or Mick Gordon's modern remixes.

He's not a character I'm absolutely dying to have, unlike the first two characters I've previously discussed in the post, but I absolutely wouldn't be against his inclusion in the slightest.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Bandana Dee:

Chance: 5% - Crazier things have happened, but at this point any first party characters are looking unlikely, and even if we do get some I don't think Bandana Dee would be near the front of the pack. Alas, it looks like our little friend will have to wait yet another game to get his chance.

Want: 75% - Anything Kirby would be a plus for me at this point, but at the same time I feel like Bandana Dee pretty much just has to take priority, a combination of demand as well as his 4th wheel status in Kirby makes him the logical next pick for the series. I also think he'd likely be a very simple character while still bringing something unique to the table (his spear), and I far prefer those type of characters over gimmick ones. He's not a character I'm desperate for mind you, but I think he'd be a very good addition.

Phoenix Wright:

Chance: 30% - I think he has a solid chance, which I consider 30% to be with some of the competition around, and he is probably the most likely Capcom character. I don't really put much stock in the Mii Costume theory, so I don't think a Capcom character is a guarantee, it's like a 50/50 for me.

Want: 40% - Never played the games, so while he'd probably be unique, it'd be hard for me to get hyped for him, especially if he took one of only two spots left. At least he could be fairly unique though.

Doomguy:

Chance: 45% - I think Doomguy is one of the frontrunners, not just because of Bethesda's previous comments, but also just Doom's historical impact, there's very little doubt in my mind that whenever we get a proper FPS rep, Doomguy will be the first. 45% probably looks bad on paper, but there really aren't many characters I'd give more than that.

Want: 60% - He would make my little brother very happy, and that'd be enough reason for me to be happy with his inclusion.

 

[ZTurtle]

Bandee
Chance: 5%
I love this little man so much, but at this point I don't see him happening. While I don't think that "third-parties only" is a hard-and-fast rule, I do feel that Dee doesn't fit with the precedent they've been setting. Reggie said that Joker is emblematic of the DLC this time around and for me that tells me that the DLC characters are big names, and so far that's been true. Four heroes from the legendary Dragon Quest series, and Banjo-Kazooie, a platforming icon from the N64 days and one of the most requested characters for so long for Smash.

As highly requested as Bandana Dee is, I just don't see him making that splash that I think they want to create with these DLC characters in the Fighter Pass. It almost feels like all the qualities he had going for him as the frontrunner for a new Kirby rep is now working against him, as he seems like too obvious a pick, along with him being from Kirby, a series already represented in Smash. If Nintendo's goal was to make waves with these DLC characters, I honestly don't think they would have chosen Dee.

That said, I've adopted a never-say-never attitude towards many aspects in Smash, which is why I gave him a 5% in case some miracle happens.
Want: 100%
After K. Rool, Dee was the only character that I needed to be 100% happy with the roster (and don't get me wrong, this roster is fantastic, but from my perspective, it doesn't feel quite complete without Dee...), and that hasn't changed. I love this cute little Waddle Dee that trained to become most likely the most powerful member of his race that can keep up with Kirby, and I think he just makes such a complete team with Kirby, Dedede, and Meta Knight, hence why I want to see him on the roster so much. While I've lost hope for his chances in Ultimate unless a 2nd pass comes to be, my desire to see him in one day remains.

Phoenix Wright
Chances: 50%
I could see it. Pheonix and the Ace Attorney series as a whole, while still relatively niche and not the most major, is still prominent and recognizable, if only for the legendary OBJECTION! That said, because it's not the biggest, I'm not sure if it will ultimately come to be. I'm not sure if Capcom would gun for Pheonix if they had a choice, but I guess if there's a new AA game on the horizon it could happen.

Want: 80%
After Joker seemed to indicate that most, if not all the characters in the Fighter Pass would be major 3rd party picks (and thus making Bandana Dee seem rather unlikely) Phoenix was one of the characters I turned to to hope for. I love the Ace Attorney series, and if MvC is any indication, Pheonix would be a unique, amusing, and interesting pick. I'd be pretty happy to see this humble lawyer throwing it down in the court of Smash.

Doomguy
Chance: 50%
Doom is notable for its impact on the FPS genre I believe, so I could see Doomguy happening. I don't know a lot about the series, so I'm not sure to what extent his violence would have to be toned down. His very much M-rated content is why I'm hesitant to give him higher, but it's within the realm of possiblity.

Want: 15%
I've never been a fan of FPS games. And call me a wimp if you want, but those super gory sort of games just aren't my thing. I can respect the legacy and impact of the series, but I have no interest in seeing it in Smash. Some of my friends want to see him though so I gave him a few points for that.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Seems to be a lot of interesting debates going on here... (reminder to keep it chill )

I'll pitch in for Bandana Dee because I can. (Busy with graduation and crap, which is tomorrow.)

The Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen of the Dees.
(He still is number one!)
Chance: 1%
Want: 95%

He may be #1 of all the Waddle Dees, and for the next best Kirby rep, but that 1 he has for his chance score is not a good 1. The two big problems that killed his chances are that he has a spirit, and the fighters pass seems to be all third party so far. His chances aren't a complete zero, because he isn't an assist trophy, but he'll most likely not happen this time around. Which is a shame, because he's now my 4th most wanted character (previously 5th), and my 2nd realistic most wanted. Bandana Dee is a character with an easily implementable moveset that's perfectly fit for Smash. The potential is right there, and the Goomba with a hat argument is a waste of time thanks to Piranha Plant, the literal definition of "generic enemy", which Bandana Dee isn't.

Heavy Weapons Guy x5

 

[NintenRob]

My first score in a long time, but I'm only here for one character

Bandana Dee 15%
It's not great. But I don't think Spirits Deconfirm, and I also don't think Nintendo characters are as 0% chance as people think. Look at Banjo. If it wasn't for him former strong ties to Nintendo (and the fact that h Ed use to be a Nintendo character), I don't think people would give a hoot about him for Smash. But he was, and now he's here. His whole trailer felt like a welcome home party. They're treating him like he's a Nintendo character again. It's small bit it's something.

Want 100%
Bandana Dee is my second most wanted behind Skull Kid. I love the Kirby franchise.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Seems to be a lot of interesting debates going on here... (reminder to keep it chill )

I'll pitch in for Bandana Dee because I can. (Busy with graduation and crap, which is tomorrow.)

The Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen of the Dees.
(He still is number one!)
Chance: 1%
Want: 95%

He may be #1 of all the Waddle Dees, and for the next best Kirby rep, but that 1 he has for his chance score is not a good 1. The two big problems that killed his chances are that he has a spirit, and the fighters pass seems to be all third party so far. His chances aren't a complete zero, because he isn't an assist trophy, but he'll most likely not happen this time around. Which is a shame, because he's now my 4th most wanted character (previously 5th), and my 2nd realistic most wanted. Bandana Dee is a character with an easily implementable moveset that's perfectly fit for Smash. The potential is right there, and the Goomba with a hat argument is a waste of time thanks to Piranha Plant, the literal definition of "generic enemy", which Bandana Dee isn't.

Heavy Weapons Guy x5

Congrats on your graduation!

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I'm not much active in this thread, I'm sure that I have missed the rating for a lot of characters I like, but well.

I wanted to come back because I've seen bandana dee in the title, sorry.

Bandana Waddle Dee
Chance: 10%
I think that spirits deconfirm characters, and it seems that all the DLC characters will be 3rd party... not sure about that, but so far it seems so.
But who knows... this fighter pass is being filled with characters I have absolutely no interest in, even characters that I considered impossible (such as Banjo kazooie), so a part of me is still convinced that this character can show up regardless of his chance.

Want: 0%
I'm sorry for the fans, but in all the Smash speculation, there's only one character that I dislike and don't want in Smash, and that's bandana waddle dee.
First of all, I simply dislike the character: the apparently weak guy that's instead very strong but he's too modest to admit... some may like it but I don't find this trope interesting at all.
Second, I think it would misrepresent what Waddle Dees are in the Kirby universe.
Waddle Dees are the inhabitants of Dreamland; they are everywhere, they are clumsy, paceful, and funny. Bandana Waddle Dee instead is often portrayed as this strong warrior with angry eyes... it's just, not what Waddle Dees are supposed to be; leave that attitude to Kirby.
Then, the 4th main character thing. He's not... actually, if you go on the Kirby official website, the main four characters are Kirby, Dedede, Metaknight and Waddle Dee... just Waddle Dee, not Bandana Dee. Regular Waddle Dee is the one that appears the most in Kirby games, regular Waddle Dee is the one that appears in 90% of the merchandise, regular Waddle Dee is the one that HAL continues listing as the 4th main character whenever they have a chance to.
Bandana Waddle Dee is just one specific version of Waddle Dee, not the main one. There are other Waddle Dees, there is Sailor Dee, Reporter Dee and his TV troupe, and several other types of Waddle Dees that occasionally appear in games or other media.
When you get the Hero from Dragon Quest, and he gets 4 different skins that represent different heroes (one of which is Bandana Goku lol), why should you limit Waddle Dee to only one version when you can represent all the variations Waddle Dee had in all the franchise's history?
Why would you limit the moveset to spear only and maybe parasol, when Waddle Dees have done several different stuff in the franchise, including driving cars and trucks, piloting mechs, building forts, building clumsy wooden gimmicks, woodcutting, and so... (they did it as a species, just not the bandana one).
I'm not against Waddle Dee in Smash, I'm against specifically Bandana Waddle Dee, since IMO it would just be a wasted opportunity to get a potentially more creative character. Nothing against getting Waddle Dee with several skins, one of which is the bandanna, that would be fine.
Anyway, before Waddle Dee, there are many other characters that I think are way more interesting and I would prefer to have them in smash:
Adeleine & Ribbon (my most wanted actually), Chef Kawasaki (playable, not assist), Galacta Knight, Daroach, Magolor, Marx, etc. So, Waddle Dee would be for me just a step backward in getting one of those more interesting characters.

Phoenix Wright
Chance: 40%
I don't know... really, I have this feeling that the series was more popular during the DS days, and now it's not much relevant anymore... but maybe it's just me. Anyway, a capcom rep is kinda likely and Phoenix Wright is one of the major characters from Capcom (other than the games being released on Nintendo consoles), so it can still happen.
Probably Resident Evil has more chances though.

Want: abstain

I have never played an Ace Attorney game, I know nothing of the character aside of the memes. So, I'm neutral.

"Doomguy", "Doom Slayer" or whatever he's called
Chance: 20%
I think we have got our only western rep in Banjo, and the heavy amount of gore in the series will probably play against his chance of being in Smash, not for the violence itself, but for the controversy around the series in a similar way as Carmageddon.

Want: 45%
If it was before E3, it would have been something like 20% or less. After that new trailer, I started to be interested in the series a bit. It's not just about gore, there are nice surreal locations and the art style is consistent and creative. Violence is there, it's exaggerated, but it's intentionally like that... I think the game doesn't take itself all that much seriously, I think the overexaggerated gore is at times used for humor too.
When I see a gun that transforms itself and becomes so big that covers half the screen, I know that this game is not taking itself seriously.
And that's part of the charm, at least for me.
If Doom guy comes to Smash, the gore would be removed offcourse, but I'd like to see him wield a gun that's bigger than himself, and do all those crazy stuff such as putting himself into an huge gun and shooting himself through the space as a human bullet (apparently he does it for real). That's the type of stuff that I expect form Doom guy, and the reason why my want rate is increased.
Though, he's still not one of my wanted characters, I'd just be ok if he's in, depending on how he's represented in the game.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Waddle Dees are the inhabitants of Dreamland; they are everywhere, they are clumsy, paceful, and funny. Bandana Waddle Dee instead is often portrayed as this strong warrior with angry eyes... it's just, not what Waddle Dees are supposed to be; leave that attitude to Kirby.

Kirby's also supposed to be a carefree lad, the 'strong warrior with angry eyes' is a Western marketing thing.

now it's not much relevant anymore...

Ace Attorney got released on every current console this very year, and its last original release was in 2017.

 

[Neosonic97]

I believe you're referring to the trope called American Kirby is Hardcore (Warning: That's a link to TVTropes! Click on it at your own risk!).

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I believe you're referring to the trope called American Kirby is Hardcore (Warning: That's a link to TVTropes! Click on it at your own risk!).

I clicked on this link and I have not left yet please send help.

Also the day will end tonight.