Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Dee Dude]

I mean Bowser Jr and Rosalina aren’t even connected in anyway so of course they didn’t appear in each other’s trailer.

Dixie and K.Rool are enemies who’ve fought each other twice.

This ain’t a detraction against her, just my doubts.

 

[BirthNote]

I mean Bowser Jr and Rosalina aren’t even connected in anyway so of course they didn’t appear in each other’s trailer.

Dixie and K.Rool are enemies who’ve fought each other twice.

This ain’t a detraction against her, just my doubts.

Truth be told, Bowser Jr.'s involved in Rosalina's problems just as much as his dad. She reached out to Mario for help because Bowser and his son robbed her for fuel, stranded her in space and condemned the Lumas to starve. And in Galaxy 2, she's captured by them.

 

[Makai Wars]

Dixie Kong:
Want: 300%
I'm not even a huge fan of DK or anything like that, but the fact that Dixie is somehow not in at this point is a crime.
Chances: 70%, I think her being an echo would be a huge disservice to the character but I wonder if she would get a full on trailer? Anyway for DLC I consider a lock.

Shantae
Want: ∞

Chances: ?????????
I don't know myself. Sometimes I'm like "it's delusional to think a western indie character has any chance whatsoever" and then another part of me is like "but there's so much stuff pointing to it, she HAS to be in, that chair was purple!"
I don't know anymore, at this point I just want Wayforward to come out and deconfirm her already so I can stop hoping

 

[Dee Dude]

Truth be told, Bowser Jr.'s involved in Rosalina's problems just as much as his dad. She reached out to Mario for help because Bowser and his son robbed her for fuel, stranded her in space and condemned the Lumas to starve. And in Galaxy 2, she's captured by them.

Fair point, same along with the DS/Ridley connection.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Dixie Kong:
Chance: 33%
Not impossible, but I'm losing faith in the best Nintendo girl not currently on the roster by the day

Want: 100%
Yo, is that a motherflipping Nintendo All Star? Put her in already Nintendo. Ridley? All Star. K. Rool? All Star. Inkling? All Star. Isabelle, HUGE All star. With most the uniques/non echoes being big names, Dixie would fit right in, and frankly should have been in last game. Honestly consider her and Toad the biggest names not currently playable, and that's a wrong I want to see righted.

Shantae:
Chance: 5%
It's not impossible either, but not happening. Shovel Knight got an assist. She could get an assist. Wayforward not discussing doesn't automatically equal playable, she could be an assist and that's the surprise, or even a trophy. Alternatively it could mean nothing at all.

Want: 0%
Her games are fun and she's a cool character. She doesn't warrant one of the limited roster spaces though.
She's not a big Video Game name, her first game was a flop, other games needed crowdfunding to just get the chance to get made which screams to me 'not important' enough. No idea why I'm seeing such high chance scores from her fans, it just seems a little delusional when even big names like Bomberman only ended up as an Assist Trophy.

 

[Opossum]

Double zeroes to Shantae. If Shovel Knight could only amount to an Assist, I doubt an indie is getting in. He was the best bet. Also not a fan of her.

Reinhardt trophy x5

 

[smileMasky]

Dixie Kong
Chance:75%
With echoes being easier to put in I think she has a chance.
Want: 50%
Never played DKC2 but I don't mind her

Shantae
Chance: 0%
Shovel knight is an Assist trophy there is no way an Indie rep with equal qualifications get in. As an assist ok but not playable.
Want: 50%
Played riskys revenge beat it it was an ok game.
Nomination Django x5

 

[JIrish780]

Dixie Kong Likelihood: 75%
Dixie Kong Want: 50%

Even with K. Rool potentially siphoning off votes, she almost certainly got a decent amount of support to be considered, and she might wind up as a Chrom-style echo where she has a few differences from who she's echoing but not enough to reach Isabelle levels. If she doesn't make the base game, she's very likely being saved for DLC. That being said, I'm honestly neutral on her, at least until I know how she's getting in in terms of move set. A non-echo Dixie is much more appealing to me than an Echo.

Shantae Likelihood: 50%
Shantae Want: 100%

I *LOVE* Metroidvanias, and the Shantae series is one of the most consistently good ones on the market. I would love to see her included among the protagonists of the games that pioneered the style. At the same time, while there's a lot of smoke going on with regards to WayForward, I don't know if the proverbial fire causing the smoke is a base roster character, a DLC character (my personal bet/hope), an Assist Trophy or what. Only time will tell, it seems.

No nominations, can't think of anything right now.

 

[a smart guy]

Dixie Kong
Chance: 40% Isabelle puts a big wrinkle in speculating characters who fit best as semi-clones. We now know they are possible, instead of just echoes. We might not get any more besides Isabelle, but Dixie Kong is the top of this category.
Want: 70% I think she would fit well, and it's nice to have more female representation. She already has a base model in Diddy Kong, so she wouldn't be that much work to put in either.

Shantae:
Chance: 1% Given the evidence of a NDA, I believe Shantae is in Ultimate. However, I think she's in Ultimate as an assist trophy. She's a good character, but I don't think Sakurai would make her a full character.
Want: 30% Another character I have no attachment towards. I would be happy for her fans, and more female representation wouldn't be bad.

Nominations: No More Stages x5
Personally, I think the magazine made a typo, so I want these nominations to keep counting.

 

[FancySmash]

Huh, haven't played this game in a while... might be fun to jump back into it.

Dixie Kong
Chance: 66.667%
Dixie's chances are in a weird place. At first seen as likely for Diddy's echo akin to Ridley's K. Rool and Dark Samus' Dixie, Isabelle has now turned the tables on us. Semi-clones are still being added to the roster, and Dixie could work perfectly for that. So, how would she be incorporated, if she's incorporated at all. Three possibilities exist for Dixie's Smash debut, with 2/3 of those landing her a spot. So, the chance score reflects that 2/3 chance.
Want: 50%
To be brutally honest, we got K. Rool, anything else would just be a bonus. I don't object to seeing her, but I'm not dying to see her either. Completely neutral here.

Shantae
Chance: 8%
I... don't' know why I randomly went with eight, I just feel that the number works here. Shantae's chances certainly seem poor. Shovel Knight is the elephant in the room. At only an assist trophy, what chance would Shantae have? Well, it actually depends on who you ask. Some say it means she won out between the two of them. Some say that assist trophy, like Shovel Knight, is also all she can hope for. Regardless, Shovel Knight is a fellow indie, and his only making assist status... certainly doesn't help her. As for Wayforward's behavior... beats me. Perhaps she didn't make the cut and they don't wanna talk about it, perhaps she is in, I haven't a clue.
Want: 25%
Eh, I can't say I'd be too mad at her inclusion, but... at this point I think I'd prefer to limit third parties a much as possible. Sorry, it's just that I prefer more first party choices this late in, especially with two front runners (Banjo and Geno) also being third party.

Nominations
TBH, I've joined this game so late this time around I don't think I'll bother with 'em. I'm sure that most choices have already been done at this point.

 

[Makai Wars]

Shovel Knight is a fellow indie, and his only making assist status... certainly doesn't help her.

I keep seeing this argument and it baffles me. Shovel Knight was a year old multiplat with a single game and no expansion by the time the project plan began. Shantae is franchise that's been running since 2002 with every game debuting on Nintendo and staying exclusive for at least ~2 or 3 years with the exception of HGH. Shovel Knight getting AT'd has no bearing on Shantae's chances.

 

[colder_than_ice]

Dixie
Chance: 40% - Dixie seems to have everything going for her. She’s a popular character, easy clone, and she was part of the forbidden seven. I consider her be one of the top 5 most likely newcomers. I’m still trying to keep my chance ratings low, I’m only expecting 2-5 more characters and there’s just over 20 who I believe are possible candidates.
Want: 70%

Shantae
Chance: 6%?? - This one is extremely hard to rate as I have no way of knowing how Sakurai feels about making an indie character playable. I agree that Shovel Knight being out the way certainly helps her chances a little.
Want: 20%

Nominations: Edelgard x5

 

[smileMasky]

I keep seeing this argument and it baffles me. Shovel Knight was a year old multiplat with a single game and no expansion by the time the project plan began. Shantae is franchise that's been running since 2002 with every game debuting on Nintendo and staying exclusive for at least ~2 or 3 years with the exception of HGH. Shovel Knight getting AT'd has no bearing on Shantae's chances.

Let me ask you this how many cameos has shantae been in compared to shovel knight. How many people know shantae than shovel knight? Sure she has history. But what about status compared to both. She could make it in but that's not very likely.

 

[BirthNote]

Fair point, same along with the DS/Ridley connection.

Cool, I'm glad my "Um actuallies..." didn't come off as hostile.

 

[FancySmash]

I keep seeing this argument and it baffles me. Shovel Knight was a year old multiplat with a single game and no expansion by the time the project plan began. Shantae is franchise that's been running since 2002 with every game debuting on Nintendo and staying exclusive for at least ~2 or 3 years with the exception of HGH. Shovel Knight getting AT'd has no bearing on Shantae's chances.

I do apologize. The problem more seems to be not Shovel Knight's being an assist trophy... well OK, it's part of it, but some of it seems to stem too from us maybe seeing the two shown off together since they're both indie characters.

I do think I remember an indie showcase, I rather expected her to be revealed there if she was in...

 

[Misery Brick]

Dixie Kong
Chances: 74%
Dixie Kong is the only notable DK character that's not included in Smash as of yet. She's Diddy's partner and possibly considered as important as he is to the overall series.
She's one of the actual likely characters to make it into this iteration of Smash, given the advent of semi-clones and echo fighters.
After seeing the differences that both Isabelle and Chrom have, it seems like a no brainer to have her in this iteration.
However, there are very few characters entering the game this time around, so that could be a shot against her especially since she hasn't been acknowledged in Smash outside of a few trophies. Not to mention, getting scrapped and not appearing after Brawl if we go off the "forbidden 7".
Regardless of that though, Dixie is one of the few iconic characters left from the 10 orignial franchises, and may finally get her due in Ultimate.

Want: 90%
I mean, after all, it's Dixie Kong. There's not much I can really speak on her about that hasn't been already said, but it'd be great to have the core DK characters all finally in Smash.

Shantae
Chance: 45%
This might seem absurdly high to some people, but let me preface with this:
Characters are judged on their individual merits, and they are not in competition with one another.
Anywho:
Shantae is one of the oldest and most relevant indie characters today.
Her first game predates many popular pickings, such as Shovel Knight or Quote, and has close ties to Nintendo for the majority of her history. After all, her game that finally broke away was HGH.
Not to mention the fact that she holds a good amount of popularity both in Japan and the West. Despite her not being found at the top of the charts, she still managed to sell very well and stay relevant after every iteration.
Also, WayFoward also had a heavy campaign cycle to get Shantae into the game during the ballot, it garnered a mass amount of attention and could have caused her to become a strong contender for the series' pickings.
However, Shantae still suffers from the fact that she's a western indie character.
Outside of Smash 4 trophies and Shovel Knight in Ultimate, Nintendo doesn't really recognize these as they are generally much harder to negotiate given the nature of home regions.
Not to mention, Shantae may cause a worry for ratings given her attire and dancing. This is a minor observation though, that could possibly be rectified.
All in all, Shantae definitely does have a shot at being a fighter on the roster. However, it's not a clear one and she may be passed up in favor of others given the factors that surround her.

Want: 78%
Shantae could very well lend herself to an extremely interesting fighter, given her transformations and different powers she gets from across the series.
I'd think she would fit right at home with the cast, and believe it's warranted given her history with the company.
While I personally don't think she's going to make it in for the base roster, I'd be more than happy to welcome her.

Nominations:
Chorus Kids x5

 

[Zoljinx_]

I don't think I've done this before... I'll take a whack at it.

Dixie Kong:
Chances: 40%
I have my doubts on her appearance, especially as an echo. say you took everything from a character, leaving nothing but a black silhouette of that character, if you can still identify that character apart from the character they are echoing, I don't think it works that well. most, if not all echo fighters have near identical silhouettes to their counterparts, (see Marth/Lucina, Samus/Dark Samus) and Dixie i feel differs too greatly from Diddy to be an Echo fighter. which leaves her as a new character, which personally, I can see as more likely. but don't know how popular she has been in the past regarding smash bros. all this said, I do think she has a decent chance of making an appearance.

Want: 50%
I'm not much of a fan of Dixie, though I was a big fan of the old Donkey Kong Country games, so I have that nostalgia for her. if she's in, I'll be happy, but i wouldn't miss her if she wasn't there.

--------------------

Shantae:
Chance: 40%
Much like Dixie, I have my doubts, and i would have probably put this lower if not for the incredibly oddball evidence that Shantae has in her favor. the possibility of an NDA/NCC, the key phrasing in the "Jammies mode", it all screams tin foil conspiracy. Wayforward did actively campaign for her, and to see nothing from them after their initial enthusiasm of the idea comes off as strange. and personally i can actually see her being picked over Shovel Knight for one reason: she has international appeal. Shantae was around long enough to have grown fanbases outside of the US, at least enough for fan demand for localizations, as well as having some merchandise here and there made. and last i heard, Shovel Knight hasn't really picked up steam in Japan. i feel like that would be enough to give her an edge. that said. the smash community is a bit of an echo chamber, and I have no clue how people outside of the smash community supported her during the ballot period. with characters like this, i feel they are niche when it comes to the average fan, and the part of the fanbase that don't speculate like we do here would have most likely gone for more obvious choices. so it's up in the air on how loud her fans were, and whether it was loud enough for Sakurai to notice.

Want: 75%
I love the character, despite only playing one of her games, she's always been a lingering character in the back of my mind that makes me think she's a good character for smash. the character has loads of potential to be a fun addition, and I'd love to see how Sakurai and the smash dev team would have her play.

Nominations: Abstain.

 

[Shinuto]

Let me ask you this how many cameos has shantae been in compared to shovel knight. How many people know shantae than shovel knight? Sure she has history. But what about status compared to both. She could make it in but that's not very likely.

You act like WF has been trying for cameos and been getting turned down when the opposite has been true. Indie Pogo and Blade Strangers both requested her and got turned down.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Abstaining from Dixie Kong

Shantae

0% chance

If you follow my posts, you know why. But let me elaborate, for base game shantae screams not a big enough deal to get in. Right now, she had a fan base, but I would argue she’s just notcut out for it.

60% want

Replaying HGH made me want her more. Still not a huge fan but her fans are ok.

Day over GoodGrief741 can I have a noms list for the next week, also Hilda and Impa.

 

[Sari]

Princess Hilda

Chance: 70%
I think she has a pretty decent chance of appearing as Zelda’s echo. Although she is not talked about too much, she has two big points in her favor:

The first is that Zelda’s design is straight from ALBW, so they already have something to base her model off of since they look incredibly similar. I'd even argue that Hilda looks more like her non-echo counterpart than the rest of the currently revealed echos do (aside from maybe Dark Pit).

Spoiler

The second is that none of Zelda’s alts make reference to Hilda:

And no, that 6th black alt is not based on Hilda in the slightest. There are a lot of differences between the two like Hilda having red eyes, a green belt, a red gem on her crown, much darker hair, etc. If anything it is more based on the dark Zelda alt from SSB4.

Sakurai obviously looked towards ALBW when making Zelda’s design in Ultimate, so he most likely saw Hilda in the process and how similarly she looks to Zelda. In a series where color palettes have been used to make a character look like someone else from their games (Lucas’ Claus alt, Captain Falcon’s Blood Falcon alt, etc.), it feels odd for Zelda to not have the most obvious color palette reference they could’ve done. When Samus was first shown in Ultimate, she was noticeably missing her Dark Samus alt from SSB4 and we all know how that turned out.

The idea of Hilda being a Zelda echo also makes complete sense lore-wise since Hilda is literally Zelda's Lorule counterpart. Their moves would be the same for the most part, with Zelda's down-B Phantom being replaced with either Yuga or Ravio (or just a completely new move altogether). As for incorporating Hilda’s staff, they can either remove it completely or give it to her and let her borrow some of Palutena’s tilts (I’d prefer the latter). It might seem farfetched to some, but as seen with Dark Samus’ general floating animations they can easily tweak some of Zelda’s animations a bit to suit Hilda.

EDIT: Since people are saying Hilda isn't popular enough to be an echo, remember that basically no one requested Richter. Also for what it's worth ALBW is one of the most highly rated 3DS games of all time. Not to mention Hilda's use of her staff could help differentiate herself from Zelda.

Want: 100%
I absolutely loved ALBW and Hilda is easily one of my favorite Zelda characters. Her motives for her actions were justifiable and I loved how her story ended. As said before she could function as a Zelda echo while possibly also incorporating some of Palutena’s moves such as her tilts that user her staff.

-----

Impa

Chance: 35%
She is a pretty popular request and could possibly work as a Sheik echo given they use her SS or Hyrule Warriors design. I’m not sure if they’d actually go through with it though.

Want: 65%
Impa is easily one of the most important characters in the Zelda series so she is long overdue to appear as a fighter. That said, if she were to be an echo of Sheik then I wouldn’t be too excited since I don’t really like using Sheik. If she somehow makes it I hope she’s a bit more on the unique side.

-----

Nominations:
Kyo Kusanagi x5

 

[Cabbagehead]

Hilda
Chance: 55%
Want: 10%

With Zelda being an amalgamation of her A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds designs, this is the perfect opportunity for a Hilda Echo. As far as a unique newcomer, I don't see it happening, but Hilda is certainly in a position much like Black Knight where, if there's ever been an ideal time for them to slip through the cracks and make it onto the roster as an Echo, it's exactly now.

My score for Hilda is rather low because, outside of Zelda's design, there isn't really any information for or against her inclusion. The possibility is there for her to make it in, but I can't definitively say that she's happening/not happening.

I can't say I want her very much, though. I wouldn't be mad at her inclusion, and I'd be happy for her fans, but considering the Zelda roster thus far is six Triforce wielders, with half of them being clones of someone else, I want something to switch things up a bit. The Echo prospect doesn't irritate me in the slightest, but I would be perturbed that both one-off Zelda characters are literally just Zelda twice (well, disguised Zelda and Dark World Zelda) when they could be so much more interesting.

Impa
Chance: 50%
Want: 75%

As a character, Impa is one of the core Zelda characters who isn't in Smash (it's truly a tragedy that Impa and Ganon both continue to get the shaft like this, considering how integral to the series both are). Much like Ganon, Zelda, and Link, Impa isn't a character, so much as a lineage with an integral part in Hyrule's history. She has served as both Zelda's guardian and a sage of wisdom to Link throughout the years, so it's safe to say that she is important. If she were to make it into Smash, it shouldn't be much of a surprise to Zelda fans, especially since she appears in both Ocarina of Time and Breath of the Wild, two of the best-selling Zelda games.

I have a hunch that Sakurai has heard the fans' demands for a more robust Zelda roster. Sneaking in Impa as an Echo/semi-clone of Sheik would be an easy way to switch things up a bit. But other than that, there isn't really anything to point to her inclusion, or deduct points from her likelihood score. It's literally a case of Sakurai deciding whether or not to leave the Zelda playable representation as it is.

Since Impa is one of the few non-Triforce wielders who has a part in the greater Zelda story, I would be pretty happy with Impa. I wouldn't be quite as excited as Skull Kid or Mipha, but the latter is never happening, so it's either Skull Kid or Impa. Or both. That's the best outcome.

 

[NintenRob]

Going forward, I'll be ignoring all leaks and theories.

Hilda
Chance 15%
She makes sense, but the series has more significant characters, even characters who would be an echo.
Want 40%
Would rather have Ravio if we get ALBW echo. But I'd still be OK with it.

Impa
Chance 55%
Going into this game, there were two characters I fully expected to be costumes of another, Daisy and Impa. One is an echo, I expected the other to go the same route. Of course the closer to release we get, the less time there is for a reveal. She could also be unique.
Want 80%
She just makes sense, she's not my first Zelda choice, but she's probably number 2. I won't give up Skull Kid yet, but I also want Impa


Nominate no more stages x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

THESE CHARACTERS ARE LOCKED DOWN, NOMINATIONS FOR THEM ARE OBSOLETE

September 21: Jin Kazama (Tekken)
September 22: Ninten (Mother)
September 23: Terry Bogard (Fatal Fury/The King of Fighters)
September 24: Gardevoir (Pokémon) & Concept: Reinhardt Gets a Trophy (Double Day)
September 25: Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)
September 26: Django (Boktai)
September 27: Nathan Drake (Uncharted)

Nathan Drake pulled a bit of an upset, hopping past Rowlet and Hanafuda character and stealing that last spot. Guess there’s no honor among thieves, huh?

The new top seven consists of Hanafuda character, Rowlet, Disconfirmed characters as DLC, Fire Emblem spear user, Thwomp, Linkle and Ray.

Spoiler: Nominations post-Dixie Kong/Shantae pre-Impa/Hilda

Concept: Hanafuda Character x282
Rowlet x280
Concept: Disconfirmed Characters as DLC x256
Concept: Fire Emblem Spear User x245
Thwomp x226
Linkle x225
Ray (Custom Robo) x222

Over 200

No More Stages x216
Amaterasu x206

200 - 151

Balloon Fighter x190
DeMille x188
Concept: More than five unique newcomers (excl. Ridley/Daisy/Inkling) x185
Papyrus x180
Rick/Coo/Kine x174
Concept: Metroidvania-like Adventure Mode x172
Fjorm (Fire Emblem) x170
Louie x165
Tsubasa Oribe x160
Concept: All-Star Versus x158
Snip & Clip (Snipperclips) x155
Fire Emblem Three Houses Protagonist x155

150 - 101

Concept: Octopath Traveller Character x150
Item: Beast Ball x149
Concept: Punch Out Newcomer x145
Barbara the Bat x132
Project Zero/Fatal Frame Protagonist x132
Stage: Poke Floats x130
2B x126
Dovahkiin x125
Reimu Hakurei x125
Guzma (Pokémon) x120
Klonoa x117
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x115
Concept: Pikmin Newcomer x115
Pokemon Trainer (Gen 2) x114
Gooey x110
Zeraora (Pokemon) x110
Raiden (Metal Gear) x105
Edelgard x105
Susie Haltmann x104
Daroach x102
Tora & Poppi x102

100 - 51

Concept: Ken Masters alt Costume for Ryu x96
Viewtiful Joe x95
Concept: Only 4-6 newcomers for base roster x90
Chorus Kids x77
Frank West x75
Veronica x73
Yu Narakumi x71
Black Knight as a boss character x70
Silvally x69
9-Volt x67
Item: Breidablik x65
Toon Zelda x64
Endou Mamoru x62
Concept: Historical Character x60
Slime x58
Concept: Shin Megami Tensei Character x56
Concept: Wars Characters x53
Takumi (Fire Emblem) x51

50 - 25

Rhythm Girl x50
[Rerate] Spyro x45
Hilda (The Legend of Zelda) x40
Concept: Unique newcomer with low support (less than 20 supporters on Smashboards) x40
Concept: Xenoblade newcomer x40
Earthworm Jim x39
Adeleine x39
Xurkitree (Pokémon) x38
Stage: Ultra Space x35
Assist Trophy: Chun-Li x35
Leo (Fire Emblem) x35
Donbe and Hikari (Shin Onigashima) x34
Sans as a boss character x30
Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong x25
Blacephalon (Pokemon) x25
Master Chief x25
Kyo Kusanagi x25

Under 25

Concept: Break the Targets & Board the Platforms stage builder x20
[Rerate] Concept: Zelda newcomer x20
Box Theory x20
Concept: DLC character pass x20
Sub-Zero x17
Concept: Modern Kirby Stage (Post Kirby Air Ride) x15
Concept: Custom Moves return x15
Concept: Custom Alternate Colors x15
Alexandra Roivas x15
Kat & Ana x15
[Rerate] Cranky Kong x15
Concept: Cross series Echoes x15
Big Boss x15
Ryuhi (Flying Dragon) x10
Metal Sonic x10
Dr. Lobe (Big Brain Academy) x10
Cross (Xenoblade Chronicles X) x10
Break the Targets x10
Protector (Etrian Odyssey) x10
Concept: Dragon Quest content x10
The Prince (Katamari) x10
Volleyball Girl (NES Volleyball) x8
Stage Builder x8
[Rerate] Excitebiker x6
Zeke (Xenoblade 2) x6
Stage: Gyromite Stage x5
Nia (Hyrule Warriors) x5
Concept: Valve Newcomer x5
Concept: SR388 Stage x5
Concept: Playable Indie Character x5
Blaze the Cat x5
Alm x5
[Rerate] Octolings x5
[Rerate] Gengar x5
Yandere Chan (Yandere Simulator) x5
Concept: Team Rocket as a Pokémon Trainer Echo x5
Cooking Mama x5
Playable Master Hand x5
Joker (Persona) x5
Pam (Stardew Valley) x5
Captain Syrup x5
Concept: Return of Palutena’s Guidance/Codec Calls x5
Concept: Free DLC characters x5
Jin (Xenoblade) x5
Concept: Assist Trophy DLC x5
[Rerate] Black Shadow x5
Doshin the Giant x5
Stage: Mute City Melee x5
[Rerate] Lloyd Irving x5
Stage: Melemele Island x5
King Hippo x4
[Rerate] Ayumi Tachibana x4
Concept: New Yoshi item x4
Black Mage x4
Concept: WarioWare newcomer x2
Concept: F-Zero newcomer x2
Diskun x1
Item: Wumpa Fruit x1
Birdo x1
Quote x1

Takumi finally gets past 50 noms, if only barely.

Kyo Kusanagi reaches 25 nominations.

Our new challengers are a rerate of Lloyd Irving, and two stages, Mute City Melee and Melemele Island - try saying that three times out loud - each with 5 nominations.

Strider_Bond00J Incineroar has indeed been rated, so I counted your nominations as being for Mute City. However, if you so choose, you can nominate Incineroar for a rerate.

Finally, the 103 stages thing. Not a lot of people seemed to care enough to give feedback. To be honest, I feel like ignoring what Corocoro published is pretty much cherry-picking what info we want to believe.

However, there is debate to be had, even if it is just typo-or-no-typo. If I were to keep No More Stages, it’d basically be out of respect for NintenRob , who diligently nominated the concept almost singlehandedly.

I’d like to hear TCT~Phantom ’s thoughts on the matter before making my final decision.

 

[NintenRob]

I stand by my 103 stage nomination. CoroCoro isn't perfect and there's no reason to believe it has access to information like this. The article was about the Smash Direct, it should only have information we already know, that's all it does have aside from 108.

In one way or another, the article was a mistake.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You know what the Zelda series needs most? More clones. Evidently it doesn't have enough...

Anyway...

Dark Zelda/Zeldatoo

Chance: 25%
Want: 0%

Ugh. No.

I didn't hear Hilda's name until her LttP/LBW dress was shown, and now it seems everyone wants a Hilda echo. Why? Hilda wasn't even important enough to get into Hyrule Warriors; she's a tertiary antagonist at most, and really does nothing to solve the "Zelda is too cloney!" problem. I'd actually prefer if echoes didn't end up being majorly the 'Ooh, let's put in a Dark and Edgy version of every character!' grouping. Except Link, of course...Dark Link's not even getting the Alph treatment here...

Anyway, Hilda would have been a really obvious pallette swap - it was one of Zelda's first ones she got in Warriors, so it's odd that she didn't get it here. Especially since the OoT pallette and the default are really similar (though now that we have Green Yoshi and Fuzzy Green Yoshi, those differences are a bit moot).

As I said, Hilda as another Zelda is completely uninteresting to me. She doesn't display Zelda's abilities in her own game (then again, neither does Zelda), and she is featured only in one game as a side character. There are other one-offs with much larger fanbases that didn't spring up just becuse people saw what Zelda was wearing this round.

If I could choose any Zelda echo, I'd take Twili Midna as a Zelda echo instead. Twilight Princess sold much more that LBW, Midna's had a dedicated fanbase since her inception, and she even showed up with both forms in Hyrule Warriors (with both being important in the main and Linkle stories respectively). Twili Midna could be shrunk down a bit to match proportions, and then it would be a simple matter of making the attacks have darkness effects and making the summon a Twilight Beast. Plus we no longer have any TP representation in the main cast anymore, so...

Ninja Mentor

Chance: 25%
Want: 10%

At least she's recurring.

Still, Impa's looks have changed wildly between games, but everyone wants the Hyrule Warriors (by extention, the Skyward Sword) one. As much fun as it would be to see the 100+ year old granny from BotW fight.

Still, despite being one of the few recurring characters outside of Link/Zelda/Ganon, she's equally forgettable in each of her appearances. In most games, she's easily outstripped in popularity by the one-offs. Again, Hyrule Warriors did a lot to give her her own visibility, and I wager most people who seriously want her will give HW as a major reason (if they don't go for the "she's one of the only recurring characters!" one).

However, I can't see her getting her greatsword or infinitely superior naginata kits. If she got in, she'd most likely get in as an echo of Sheik, who's got a very generic totally Smash-original moveset. And that's disappointing.

Nom: Dovahkiin x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

Impa

Chance: 10%
Maybe if this was another game, but we are talking about Smash Ultimate. Her being one of the few recurring characters has little importance this time around. She does have her fans, but at best they weren’t really vocal until recently. She also doesn’t really have the best moveset potential outside of Hyrule Warriors. I don’t think she’d work as a Sheik Echo either, Impa’s much more buff. Her appearances switching between old lady and warrior doesn’t help, but at least Sakurai’s picking what game’s design he’s using for Zelda characters this time around.

Hilda

Chance: 1%
Literally the only reason people consider her is because Zelda’s using her ALbW look. She’s not a hugely popular character (or really popular at all). While she’s an interesting character, she has no moveset potential. She has nothing to differentiate herself from Zelda. She’s better off as an inspiration for a palette swap.

Abstaining from want because they’re both kind of boring picks for me, but I wouldn’t hate them.

Nominations: RayX5

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa:

Chances: 70%

She has a lot going for her. Indeed reoccurring is her best bet of getting in. As well as her being the most sensible newcomer from Zelda. Be it as a Echo Fighter or not. The fact all other Zelda character are from another game, and Skyloft being a stage helps a lot for Impa. As well as Sheik having a good move set to Echo, or at least to build Impa from. The ballot came during the time Hyrule Warriors was hugely relevant, and that game has been ported two times now. It’s been on all recent systems. So yes, she might even have gotten decent ballot votes in.

Want: 100%

One of my most wanted aside from Dixie and Isaac.

Hilda:

Chances: 15%

I mean the idea is cute. But she’s a one off and that hinders her chances greatly.

Want: 0%

 

[VexTheHex]

Impa
Chance - 35%
Want - 50%

Impa has some things going for her being one of the very few LoZ characters who can claim they have been in many games. She could end up a Sheik echo to beef up the roster, I rather doubt she could score anything better except maybe semi-clone. Part of me struggles seeing her beat out Skull Kid though since his popularity appears to dwarf her's at least around here. I wouldn't mind her, but I'm not rooting for her. If she took Sheik's kit and Sheik was cut going forward, I'd welcome that in the long run since I'm fine with only one Zelda and Link.


Hilda
Chance - 5%
Want - 0%

I guess she looks like a rather easy Echo like Dark Pit. That doesn't exactly excite me when the Echo literally looks like a recolor or gender bend. I hadn't seen her really brought up until now, so I'm pretty doubtful she has much fan demand. I feel there's many other still unconfirmed characters that could be echoes that would round out the roster better than edgy Zelda. I'd take Black Shadow, Medusa, Impa, Dixie, Louie, and others over her rather easily. Also I see many people complaining about Zelda not being that great of a kit, so I'm a little hesitant on the idea of cloning it.

Nominatons 5x Louie

 

[Artix]

Impa

Chance: 15%
With Skull Kid still around, I don't think Impa might not get in Smash, even if she does have a fanbase. She could work as an Echo of Sheik, but I highly doubt they would go for that, especially since Isabelle is not even an Echo of Villager. I could rate her higher than 15% if Skull Kid wasn't around, but unfortunately, that didn't happen...

Want: 85%
When it comes to Zelda characters, Impa is my most expected character to show up in Smash Ultimate, more so than Skull Kid. Her appearance in Hyrule Warriors should be enough to devise a moveset for her if they want her to be a semi-clone of Sheik. I wouldn't mind her getting in, but with Skull Kid still around, I lost hope that she will get in Smash.

Abstain on Hilda. I don't know much about this character.

Nominations:
Kyo Kusanagi x5

 

[BluePikmin11]

I could see Impa get in as an echo of Sheik, but it would not be because she is an important staple to the Zelda franchise, moreso because she has notable enough demand in the ballot. I do not think she is central enough to the Zelda games for me to see Sakurai give her more than echo treatment.

As for Hilda, maybe she has a decent shot, with the lack of a Hilda palette for Zelda. I'm not discounting anything anymore and being open to several possibilities. The missing Chrom color alt. for Ike. The missing Dark Samus alt. for Samus. The missing Big Boss palette for Snake. That indicates to me that we will be getting more echos than expected, with Hilda possibly being one of them. I suspect she would be in mostly because she would work as an easy echo for Zelda and nothing beyond that, not even fan-demand. I doubt her being a one-time Zelda character would affect her chances at all.

---------

x5 Hanafuda character

 

[skylanders fan]

Hilda
chance
40%
she could be echo for zelda but I also think other charcters need echos first before her.

want
100%
I would take her a extra charcter is a extra charcter and I am all for the echos.

impa
chance
20%
at first before we knew anything about the game I figured she had a decent chance now I doubt we will see her for awhile in smash

want
70%
she would be cool but I just don't see her as a echo I see her as a new original/semi clone.

nominating
box theory x5

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Impa
Chance: 75%
With how the way the Zelda series is gettin grepresented in this game I no longer see the inconsistant desings as an issue. It also leads me to believe how a new Zelda character is likelier than I thought. She likely had the highest ballot support out of all Zelda characters and would make for an easy Sheik echoe.

Want: 50%
Assuming she'd be an echoe I'd be fine with her.

The prince x5
GoodGrief741 you might have skipped over one of my posts cause I'm pretty sure I've nominated the prince four times by now.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Abstaining from Hilda

IMPA
Chance: 25%
Want: 25%

She's not the most popular pick, and Skull Kid makes more sense, but she would probably come next after him. She also has an interesting moveset to work with, and she's a Sheikah, with tons to take from. Her moveset can revolve around her Hyrule Warriors incarnation.

Nominations: Xurkitree x5

 

[zferolie]

Wow there was A LOT of arguing about shantae. She's that polarizing huh. Surprised fist fights didn't break out. Shame. I admit I probably over rated her chances, but thats my bias speaking.

Anyway, the new rates!

Hilda(Echo of Zelda I assume)
Chance: 15%
Her literally being a pallete swap of Zelda, plus no color scheme for her seen, gives her a chance. Plus she is an easy echo to do build wise. However, I think her biggest con is relevancy. She was in 1 game. Why pick her as a zelda echo if we will only be getting 1 echo a franchise per game(said that to clarify Luzina was an echo last game and chrom is an echo this game) While I wouldn't mind her, there is another possible Zelda series echo that has a much bigger role in zelda history.

Want: 50%
I wouldn't mind her. she's cute, and I like her color scheme, but thats really it.

Impa(Echo of sheik)
Chance: 70%
If we are getting a zelda rep this game, its gonna be an echo. Mario only got an echo(maybe Geno will count as a mario character but thats a special case), and FE only got an echo. Zelda has enough unique reps that an echo will be fine to add. And Impa is the last big name of the series not to be added. Big name because she has appeared in multiple Zelda games, and is as key of a character to the lore as Link and zelda and Ganondorf. Her being an echo of Sheik makes complete sense as she is the head of the sheikah tribe and thus trained Sheik. She would fight the same, maybe slightly slower and a bit more power, to show she is more of a master of the fighting style.

want: 70%
Impa would be a cool addition. While I would love for her to use the Hyrule Warriors design, I think the 2 likely ones are her OoT design, or her Skyward Sword Design, as thats the only 3D zelda game not to have a design reped in this game other then the stage. Sheik I think is still sporting her what if she was in Twilight Princess Design.

Nom: Once again Donbe and Hikari x5. Someone has to keep pushing them

 

[Firewolf73]

Impa
Chance: 30%
Want: 50%
She could be a a Shiek echo with a different weapon and maybe not as fast. At least the Zelda franchise would get a new rep and SS Impa was pretty cool so I would be happy with her inclusion.

Hilda
Chance: 30%
Want:100%
I feel like Impa and Hilda have equal chances. Hilda could use moves such as summon Yuga, use her staff for taunts, upside down triforce, teleport and summon the purple tentacles/vines to trap her foes. I also like her design and she’s gotten significantly more popular after e3 and revelation of echo fighters.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

GoodGrief741 , I hate to be a pain, but you still have yet to make Stage Builder into a [Concept]. Sorry about that...
Also still me being a pain, you might want to remove Hilda from the nominations list, as she is being rated right now...

HILDA

Here we have a one-appearance villain who kind of looks like Zelda as she appears in a Link between Worlds. Nothing too special besides that fact; I personally believe that she has no chance as a unique fighter, and a slight one at that as an Echo. I did some research into her, and she isn't even a main villain. She just looks like Zelda, and that's the only reason why we are voting for her. I also wanted to check to see if she was an alt costume of Zelda, and she ISN'T EVEN IMPORTANT ENOUGH FOR THAT! (I did find out while searching for Zelda's alts that Galacta Knight has been de-confirmed, as he has been recreated as an alt of Meta Knight. The source material was honored so much that they completely redesigned the previous Galacta Knight alt to make it better match how he did in the first game, facial slit and all. RIP Galacta Knight, would've loved to have you as an Echo, but you and Hilda both suffered the same fate as one-time villains. At least you are interesting to look at and have an echo move set potential. Anyway, back on topic.) In terms of chance, there isn't that much to say. Nintendo doesn't seem to care for her, she certainly isn't that popular of a character in terms of support as an addition to Smash, and I hadn't even heard of her before Zelda was shown to use her Link between Worlds model. I have to stop at some point to give her a...

Chance: 10%

In my opinion, I can agree that there are characters who would not been done justice unless their given a completely unique move set. Then there are some that I would like to be unique, but would immediately settle for them to be an echo if given the chance. There are a small amount of characters that I want ONLY to be an echo. Hilda is the very first (and only) character that I want as an alternate costume only. And she was de-confirmed even for that! (At least Galacta Knight got represented as an alternate costume) I feel like having her as a color alt (to differentiate from a model alt such as Alph and the Koopalings) would actually be better for Zelda, as it would honor Zelda's source game by a character who looks similar to her as an alternate color costume. But, that is not the case. She is not unique enough to be an echo, when we still have characters like Isabelle, Dixie Kong, Dry Bowser, and Impa still left in the open. I'd be fine with her though... wouldn't be too mad. Ah well. You aren't that wanted though Hilda, so...

Want: 7.5%

IMPA

Ah, Impa. You who have been reliable appearing in each Legend of Zelda iteration under new forms. You deserve your place, be it as an individual fighter (which may not be likely being this close to the release of Smash Ultimate) but you do have a very high chance at becoming a Sheik Echo. If it were up to me, I would personally make Sheik an Impa Echo, but alas, I cannot. Even though Hilda would simply be a pallet swap of Zelda, even she wouldn't be Echo worthy. Impa, with her own model, would be a great addition as an Echo. Impa has been an integral party of plenty of Legend of Zelda games, often serving as the mentor. I, like most people, would have her appear as she did in Skyward Sword, as it is the most popular model that is associated with "fighting". By this, I mean not BotW's model, but to each their own. While Sheik is a Hylian (Zelda) merely disguised in the form of a male Sheikah, Impa is pure Sheikah, the exact race that Zelda was trying to match when disguised as Sheik. Because of the two's relation to the Sheikah, they both would have similar moves, and their move sets would be easily relatable. The only think that would need to change are the model, sounds, and animations. What I'm trying to say is that the general idea of what Sheik's moves are would also work for Impa. Impa is also the last "recurring" character throughout the Zelda series that has not been added. Sheik only appears in Ocarina of Time (not counting Smash, Warriors, or the OoT manga) I mentioned a quadrifecta of Kirby characters that needed to be included for Bandana Dee's rating, being Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, and Bandana Dee. The Legend of Zelda has a similar quadrifecta. Link, the hero. Zelda, the distressed. Ganon(dorf), the villain. Impa, the mentor. Sheik is not completely needed in this instance. Neither is Skull Kid, Midna, Tetra, Ghirahim, Vaati (remember when he was popular? Me too...) or any of the other highly requested Zelda reps, because there are plenty. Impa is the essential Zelda rep that truly represents the series as a whole. She was even mentioned in the OG The Legend of Zelda, the first game; this makes her one of the original four characters of the game, a title that not even Skull Kid has, who is probably Impa's closest competition right now in terms of a new Zelda rep. (Sure, she was really old in this game and not suitable to be a fighter here. Too late in her life. Skyward Sword is easily the best bet for her model.) Nintendo loves her enough to continuously give her an integral part of the Zelda series in most games from the earliest to the most recent. Because of this, and because she is the most suitable to have a spot, I believe that Impa has a chance of...

Chance: 85%

She is my favorite bet for a new Zelda rep, no doubt. Tetra is too similar of a design to Toon Link (generally. In terms of Smash, yes. In actuality, no, they are very different. They are both in the Wind Waker art style, which is too similar in comparison to the sheer amount of content and game representation in Super Smash Bros Ultimate) Toon Zelda is kind of unnecessary, but I guess could fill a small gap of Link<->Toon Link, and Zelda<->Toon Zelda. It is a very miniscule gap, and it could probably be left open. Skull Kid is very much the closest, appearing in either 2 or 3 games. (The third game is Twilight Princess, in which there is no conformation if said skull kid in question is truly the named Skull Kid, as skull kids are a "species" per say), but even he has appeared in less games than Impa's 8. Most other requested Zelda characters follow the same fate: even though the others may have "cool designs", none can compete with Impa's continuous representation within the Zelda franchise. It is, along with Skull Kid, the only characters that I feel can viably represent the Zelda series for what it is. Skull Kid may make a better original character, sure, but I want Impa as an Echo more than I want Skull Kid to be a new character. Because of this, Impa gets a...

Want: 92.5%

The noms have been made: Ray (Custom Robo) x5
Edit: If the consensus is that Ray will NOT be rated, then instead I will place: Amaterasu (Okami) x5

 

[BlueMagician]

Impa

Chance: 40%
She floats around the top 50 of requests, I think, so she might have caught the attention of Sakurai. She could have an original moveset, but if she's like Chrom and Dark Samus then an Echo is just as, if not more likely. Sheik's fighting style came from Impa, after all. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if she got skipped for some reason.

Want: 60%
After the BotW Champions she's my next wanted Zelda fighter. Not sure if I want unique or echo, I'd be fine with either.

Princess Hilda

Chance: 20%
On one hand, Zelda was changed to a primarily LttP-based design even though they introduced it as a LBW design; perhaps they had a reason for thinking it was LBW based. However we don't know how many pallet swaps there are available to select, so that we haven't seen her as a Zelda color isn't everything. (but then, Dark Samus...) Hilda probably didn't have much requests on the Ballot, and I'm not sure if they'll just add her as an Echo because they can. Once again, we have someone who might end up in a boss mode, though maybe not even as a boss.

Want: 50%
I like magic fighters and I think Hilda was cool in her own game. The more oppurtunity we have to make Zelda stronger, the better.

Nominations:
Rowlet x5

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

However we don't know how many pallet swaps there are available to select, so that we haven't seen her as a Zelda color isn't everything.

Quick interjection: Zelda was one of the few characters that was available to play as during E3, so we have seen her pallet swaps. I can verify that none of those designs for alternate colors are based on Hilda's design. You can find them by looking up "SSBU Alternate Costumes"

 

[Firewolf73]

Quick interjection: Zelda was one of the few characters that was available to play as during E3, so we have seen her pallet swaps. I can verify that none of those designs for alternate colors are based on Hilda's design. You can find them by looking up "SSBU Alternate Costumes"

I think he means there might be more that we haven’t seen or weren’t shown at the e3, like how the Ridley alt wasn’t shown there or the possibility that characters now have 12 costumes.

 

[Fire Tactician]

Hilda

Chance: 5%

I don't think she has the popularity to be prioritized over other Echoes, but Sakurai did obviously look at ALBW. Zelda's FS also could work suspiciously well was a Hilda painting one, but that's not enough for me to commit to her.

Want: 15%

There are better Echoes, but I'd personally enjoy Hilda more than Shadow or Ken.

---

Impa

Chance: 10%

Very popular character, but her changing design per game hurts her recognizability. As launch grows nearer, I'm starting to think that Skull Kid is more likely as a Zelda rep. You know what? Start Impa as an Assist Trophy in this Smash, use her in a new Zelda game, and then we'll talk about her next time around.

Want: 40%

She's iconic, so I'd love to have her. Would I use her? Probably not, but it'd be nice to have her.