Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[FancySmash]

I didn't think Geno was shown off as a Spirit, was he? I'm not an avid Geno supporter, but I really don't think he's out yet... If I'm wrong, correct me. I did see the icon with his face, but does that mean he's out?

The icon isn't a Spirit, so no. To be fair, even if he does have a Spirit, King K. Rool also has a Spirit.

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure so I decided it was better to bring it up rather than neglect it. He has a better chance than some of the other spirit characters, even if that was a Spirit Icon (Octolings are out due to no more echoes).

 

[AirMac1]

Wow! My reaction for World Of Light is one word:AWESOME!

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

The icon isn't a Spirit, so no. To be fair, even if he does have a Spirit, King K. Rool also has a Spirit.

He was shown off as a lobby player icon, we don't know if those are spirits or not.

Okay, thank you for the clarification everyone. And bringing up King K. was actually pretty important, because that means that characters shown off as spirits are not necessarily deconfirmed. However, with the "no echoes" being a thing, that puts a tighter grip on those characters (naming Dixie Kong off the bat) who were shown off as spirits that have a chance to make it in as DLC. Piranha Plant makes things much easier for characters such as Bandana Dee though. No longer is "he's a goomba with a hat" going to cut it when we have a basic enemy from the very first level of Super Mario Bros.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So for DLC speculation, who benefits? Who doesn’t?

Up



Third Parties: Having to negotiate in advance means these all benefit. With each one coming with music and a stage, third parties as a whole get a solid boost in their chances. I would put stock in Namco, Square, and Capcom for this out of our existing ones. Capcom is super friendly w Nintendo right now, and Namco and Square have viable reps. For Namco I would focus on Lloyd, Solaire, and Heihachi. For Square, Sora, Geno, Lara, and Erdrick reign here. Capcom I would go Monster Hunter or Dante. As for outside companies, the four that I would focus on would be Ubisoft, Microsoft, Activision, and Bethesda. Indies that are not shovel knight still stand a Chance, with Sans now being the front runner imo.

Bandana Dee: surviving the apocalypse puts him in good shape, easily the best shape for a first party character.

Ballot: Honestly I feel it will have some play, at least for one or two characters Ridley and K Rool came from it at least, I feel we could see someone like Rayman or Banjo.


Down

Echos: only echos we will get will either be dlc season 2 pass bonuses or with a new character as dlc. As such, echos candidates like Funky go down.

Advertisement: I feel Sakurai took the Corrin controversy to heart. He went out of his way to deconfirm Rex. I feel that this would heavily hurt Gen 8 and Three Houses,


Limbo

Assists: honestly I could see this going either way. Waluigi has a solid shot for DLC given the tantrum thrown by certain parts of the fan base. If ATs are up for promotion, Isaac, Ashley, and Skull Kid come to mind.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

TCT~Phantom , if you're on, do you have any idea what these next coming days will look like for Smash speculation and DLC ratings?

 

[Sari]

Ok so when I wrote my previous comment I didn't actually see the Direct since I was in class when it happened and just posted my thoughts after seeing the summary of what happened. Now that I've actually seen it, I'll post my individual thoughts:

Pros:

• Ken and Incineroar look surprisingly enjoyable.
• Piranha Plant made me a bit salty but after getting over it they look kind of fun. I think my initial reaction to it would've been better if I saw the reveal during the Direct.
• World of Light looks really fun (reminds me of FighterZ's story mode).
• Spirit mode actually seems somewhat enjoyable. Basically another version of event match.

Cons:

• So many deconfirmations (Skull Kid and Isaac hurt the hardest). Also RIP Grinch leak.
• The way they handled the overall character reveals of Ultimate in general was HORRIBLE. Love or hate Incineroar, he doesn't seem like the kind of character you get hyped for to round out the roster. K. Rool should've been saved for last.
• Again while Piranha Plant looks fun I'm still a bit salty atm over it.
• All-Star mode has been reduced to multi-man melee.
• No stage builder.
• No trophies.

I give it a 40% satisfaction rating. Decent but very disappointing.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Oh yeah, my reactions...

Spoiler

That's it, really. I was personally rather fine with what we got. Piranha Plant was announced at the perfect time; he could only work as a free additional download. I would have liked to see at least one of the official DLC though and have them revealed, even if we couldn't see gameplay. PP could not be the final character revealed, but he couldn't have come in the DLC package. Ken and Incineroar were expected and anti-hype. A ton of characters purged. Spirits better be able to come back and have a chance at DLC.

Nominating for DLC: Quote x5

 

[Mayoman]

I'm left pretty disappointed.

Ken was always a given, no problems there. He's honestly way more interesting than I expected. Incineroar, however.... Listen, I don't have anything against the people who like him. Nobody deserves to be harrassed over their preferred fighters.

But... Goddamnit. I really do hate the thing. It's yet another Fire Starter, bipedal, looks like a damn furry, is built like a fighting type... The list goes on. I would truly rather have no pokemon at all. Incineroar is one of my honest to god least favorite Pokemon, let alone Starters. So disappointing to see. I have no idea why GameFreak has doubled down with this being the mascot of Gen 7 when Rowlet and Mimikyu are so much more popular. Grass will apparently always be the redheaded stepchild of the Starters and that just sucks.

To add to that, Shantae deconfirmed is rough. I really feel for the Isaac fans too. So many favorites decimated today... All to make room for a bloody generic Mario enemy. Which while hilarious, feels like it's in really poor taste in light of all the surrounding deconfirmations.

AND no Stage Builder! Left with a really sour taste. I'm definitely gonna buy, but this does stifle my excitement a bit.

I agree 100% about your statement on Incineroar. It is stupidly unfair how both Fire and Water get two reps each while Grass only gets 1, which may I remind you isn't a final evolution, but a middle evolution, the least popular of an evolution line of a starter. It kind of represents the importance of Grass type in GF's eyes.

It also pisses me off how there has never been a Pokemon generation where the Grass starter was the most popular one out of it's trio. Sure you can say that Serperior is the most popular Gen 5 starter but the Gen 5 starter trio is widely regarded as the worst one in Pokemon so I don't know if that counts.

I'm not going to get into strengths, weaknesses, statistics and all that jazz because i'd be here all day, but point being, Grass deserves better than this, and it's a shame a fully evolved starter of it's type has to miss out on such a great game with a phenomenal looking adventure mode. Let's just hope things get better for Grass in Gen 8.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I agree 100% about your statement on Incineroar. It is stupidly unfair how both Fire and Water get two reps each while Grass only gets 1, which may I remind you isn't a final evolution, but a middle evolution, the least popular of an evolution line of a starter. It kind of represents the importance of Grass type in GF's eyes.

It also pisses me off how there has never been a Pokemon generation where the Grass starter was the most popular one out of it's trio. Sure you can say that Serperior is the most popular Gen 5 starter but the Gen 5 starter trio is widely regarded as the worst one in Pokemon so I don't know if that counts.

I'm not going to get into strengths, weaknesses, statistics and all that jazz because i'd be here all day, but point being, Grass deserves better than this, and it's a shame a fully evolved starter of it's type has to miss out on such a great game with a phenomenal looking adventure mode. Let's just hope things get better for Grass in Gen 8.

99.9% Guarantee that the fully evolved Gen 8 Grass starter gets into Smash. The .1% comes from the chance that it is missing all of its limbs and uses the same model (and recolored sprite) as Garbador.

 

[Starbound]

I think the character in the best spot for DLC is Elma.

We have XC1 and XC2 content (and a lot from both), but none from XCX. Plus her game came out when the project plan was finishing so she was totally on their minds.

Plus that robot arm gun is still MIA with the current fighter lineup.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

DLC, don't quote me, will be Geno, Bandana Dee, Elma, Impa, and a RH rep.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Here is what I currently have in mind for our final days.

11/2-11/3 Satisfaction Ratings
11/4 Favorite Days of RTC
11/5 Most Hype/ Least Hype Moments of Speculation
11/6 Most Hype/Least Hype Character
11/7 Will there be a season 2 of DLC?

Simple stuff, gives time to get our final affairs in order. Might add one more day on. From this point onward, we go into DLC unless this forum gets locked which I doubt.

TCT~Phantom , if you're on, do you have any idea what these next coming days will look like for Smash speculation and DLC ratings?

.

Gonna end the day now. Feel free to get your reactions in, time for satisfaction ratings. Rate your satisfaction ratings for Incineroar, Ken, and Piranha Plant. Feel Free to post them for Spirits and World of Light as well.

DLC, don't quote me, will be Geno, Bandana Dee, Elma, Impa, and a RH rep.

Not enough Third Parties. We are getting mainly third parties imo.

 

[aarchak]

I think the character in the best spot for DLC is Elma.

I think Lloyd is on top now. Sure, Elma has a strong chance, but Lloyd was requested far more than her, and is from a more popular series.
Also, TCT~Phantom are we doing noms still or do we wait?
Anyways,

Ken
Satisfaction: 100%
I love what they did with him, totally gonna play him a lot. I quite like Ken, and no leak disappointment is going to stop me.
Incineroar
Satisfaction: 100%
He looks incredibly cool, and I absolutely adore his side special. Going to try him out and see how much I like playing as him.
Piranha Plant
Satisfaction: 80%
Now that the salt has subsided, I think it's actually a really interesting character with a cool moveset. Hopefully people start to feel better about it as I do. It's really a shame too, it's such an interesting fighter pick, but one that works very well.
Spirits
Satisfaction: 100%
I still feel like the only one who liked this mode from the start. It looks actually incredibly fun, and the fact that there is NO GACHA SYSTEM makes me very happy. I feel like I'm going to enjoy this for a long time.
World of Light
Satisfaction: 100%
This is the adventure mode I've been wanting for a long time. Combine it with Spirits, and I'm hooked. Give me this game now.

 

[FancySmash]

I agree 100% about your statement on Incineroar. It is stupidly unfair how both Fire and Water get two reps each while Grass only gets 1, which may I remind you isn't a final evolution, but a middle evolution, the least popular of an evolution line of a starter. It kind of represents the importance of Grass type in GF's eyes.

It also pisses me off how there has never been a Pokemon generation where the Grass starter was the most popular one out of it's trio. Sure you can say that Serperior is the most popular Gen 5 starter but the Gen 5 starter trio is widely regarded as the worst one in Pokemon so I don't know if that counts.

I'm not going to get into strengths, weaknesses, statistics and all that jazz because i'd be here all day, but point being, Grass deserves better than this, and it's a shame a fully evolved starter of it's type has to miss out on such a great game with a phenomenal looking adventure mode. Let's just hope things get better for Grass in Gen 8.

To be honest, Venusaur is my favorite of the Kanto starters. Heck, I think he even has the best mega, though I do like my defensive mons.

As for the satisfactions...

Ken
50% - I don't play Street Fighter. I don't often find myself playing as Ryu. But he's an echo, so I'm not gonna complain. Kinda odd that he made it but not Shadow, but I guess that's hardly Ken's fault.

Incineroar
0% - Oof, I'm gonna get a lot of flack for this. I really... just didn't want a Pokemon this time around. We got PKMN Trainer & Pichu back, did we really need a newcomer? On top of that, a newcomer that they arbitrarily picked because it's (I'm assuming) gonna be in the anime? They caught lightning in a bottle once with Greninja, expecting to do the same again was foolish of them. Incineroar is far from the least popular Pokemon of Gen 7, but he certainly wasn't the most popular. Rowlett/Decidueye, Mimikyu, some Tapus/UBs, heck, even Lycanroc who's quadrupedal is more popular. They randomly picked a starter I assumed to be put in this game, or worse, they passed over the Decidueye because of Pokken including him. I guarentee that Incineroar isn't gonna be as popular years down the line. And take this from someone whose favorite Pokemon and main in this series is JIGGLYPUFF! I know my character isn't nearly as popular as it used to be. That's just how it is with Pokemon. I think Smash should refrain from adding more Pokemon unless they really find that the current generation has someone as popular as Jigglypuff used to be. I'm 100% certain that if Puff weren't in Smash 64, she wouldn't be here now. As for the moveset, meh. I don't find it too terribly interesting. Wrestling moves. That sums it all up.

Piranha Plant
Qπ% - What's that? My rating makes no sense and is incredibly random? You say that I just picked a letter and greek symbol just to catch people who are reading this off guard, just for the sake of being random and unpredictable? Good. That's Piranha Plant in a nutshell. I suppose you could say I should be thankful that he killed the 'goomba with a hat' argument for Bandana Dee, but that should've never been holding him back anyways (plus I don't think this will stop people, it'll only enrage them more). If you really need a rating though... 20%. I'll at least enjoy some of the jokes he brings to the table, and I'll give him this, he looks interesting.

Spirits
10% - Look, we all know not to beat around the bush. This is stickers + event matches + attributes from Smash 4. Nothing worth hiding for over two months. That's all I really have to say that I didn't say earlier.

World of Light
N/A - TBH, we only got a small glimpse of it. I think the best way to get actual feelings for it would be to play the game. I'm afraid I must refrain from giving my satisfaction on it for the time being. If it makes anyone feel any better though, the cutscene shown was nice. Sonic wasn't fast enough to save Pikachu...

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Gonna get mine out of the way.

Ken: 90%

This is how echos should be. The level of care put into Ken is amazing. He plays like he does in Street Fighter, with all his own little quirks. He has the smae style that makes him cool. I am very happy with him. I just wish we got Akuma instead. But that is such a minor nitpick when he is just done so well. I tried to play Ryu in Smash 4, and will try to play Ken in Ultimate.

Incineroar: 75%

Lycanroc was in my top 5. That alone was going to make Incineroar an uphill battle. but damn did he pull it off. He honestly has so much detail put into him it makes me smile. He poses after each attack, he plays his heel role so well. He also has one of the best reveal trailers of all, up there with Ken (poor Isabelle got shafted by this imo). Honestly if I was not such a huge Lycanroc supporter, he would be much higher.

Piranha Plant: 60%

I like joke characters, but this one... the timing felt bad. I just saw several characters I wanted deconfirmed, and then the salt poured in when I saw Isaac, Shadow, and Black Knight as assists. So when i see we are getting a bonus, I was hoping for something to appease me. Instead we got this thing. It honestly feels partly spiteful to me tbh, like Sakurai is saying he can do what he wants by choosing the most out there idea possible. Part of me likes that, since it seems fine. I know friends who love the little guy, so I am a bit merciful here.

Spirits: 50% Chance

I am torn. On one hand this mode looks like it will have a good bit of replay, which I like. I know some people think it may be dumb, but I feel I could easily sink some hours into this. On the other hand, I miss trophies a lot. Honestly I liked the Trophy gallary so much, it was a highlight for me seeing everyone who gets a cameo.

World of Light: 99%

If the overworld was more interesting, this would be a 100. But damn was this cool. The trailer was perfect, though I wish that maybe only the original 8 survived instead of just Kirby. Seeing bosses confirmed for this has me excited, I want to fight tons of them. I hope there is a boss rush, which I can see them keeping secret until you beat WoL. Overall this looks cool. I just hope the bosses are tons of fun.

Just for fun, Imma order each newcomer from fav to least fav.

Everyone is Here
K. Rool
Ridley
Simon
Inkling
Ken
Richter
Dark Samus
Incineroar
Chrom
Isabelle
Daisy
Piranha Plant


aarchak While we are not doing noms right now, please list characters you think should be rated for DLC. I am making a fixed schedule, and once we start that we will be doing noms as well.

FancySmash no need to worry about flack. It is your opinion. If you do not like Big Cat, that is fine.

 

[NineS]

10/10 with all of it.
Except online.
That one worries me.

Piranha plant is 1,000/10 though.

 

[Ridrool64]

Incineroar gets a 95% Approval from me. I don't think we needed a Pokémon that might become a dated inclusion, and that's literally the only thing stopping him from the coveted 100%. Hot-diggity-damn does he kick massive ass.

Ken gets an 80%. He's fine, and I liked using Ryu in Smash 4, so I imagine that Ken will be fun to use as well. Not much to say, Vergeben took a lot of the air out of the room and Ken was leaked about a million times so. Can't say I didn't see this coming.

Piranha Plant gets an Abstain. I really can't talk about this guy because I don't know. What I do know is that he came at the worst possible time.

Spirits & World of Light (grouped together since they're part of the main deal): 80%, formerly a 50% before the video at the end. Absolutely the best thing for Event Matches to become, I'm unsure as to why so many people thought we were getting Subspace 2. Plus, as long as there's enough story, it can be as light as it needs.

I guess believing the Grinch Leak was fake and being open to what Spirits was before heading in made me less disappointed. I'd be ****ing furious (0, 80, 0, 0) if I thought Grinch and Subspace 2 were a thing.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Alright then, let’s go.

Ken: 100%
Thank God for Ken. He’s an iconic character, with a long history, he deserves to be in. In these dark times he reminds me of what Smash is: a clash of gaming titans.

Incineroar: 0%
Can’t say the same of Incineroar. Blatant Pokémon tokenism sucks. There are 10 bleeding Pokémon. They didn’t even manage to pick a Pokémon popular with either the Pokemon or Smash fandoms. He won’t age poorly because there’s nowhere for him to drop. But hey, his moveset looks neat, and he is a heel, so he’s supposed to be hated. But I guess I can’t really bring myself to hate him, not when he have...

Piranha Plant: -infinity%
If it has to be a 0%, then bump my Incineroar score to 5, because he doesn’t deserve to get lumped into the same category. This is not a character. This is not a what the **** character. This isn’t in the same category as important reps like ROB, Wii Fit Trainer or Game & Watch. This is just a surprise for surprise’s sake. It wasn’t a character for anyone. In a game that allegedly sold itself as a game for the fans, it diminishes the fans and the game itself. It mars the entire series with its inclusion. This is Mario Kart, Pink Gold Peach level stupid.

Spirits: 20%
Have to say, given how much they hyped us with this, it being Event Matches + stickers is incredibly disappointing. I can see myself playing this, but I can also see myself getting bored quickly.

World of Light: 80%
TBH, this was the glimmer of hope at the end of such a ghastly Direct. The initial cutscene is amazing (so is the song), but finding out later that there won’t be more like it was heartbreaking. I also don’t really know what’s the difference between this and regular Spirits mode. Which, frankly, given they had 40 minutes and did jack **** with them, should have been better explained. But I was super charmed by watching tiny Ness and PT walking around the map.

BONUS: Trophies are gone
0%
What the ****

Overall Direct score: 10%
I mean, they really dropped the ball with this game’s marketing. In the three months after the August Direct they only planned to reveal 4 characters? They planned to start with Ridley and end with Piranha Plant?!

The whole inclusion of Piranha Plant kind of points to Sakurai not wanting to do this anymore. Hey, let’s give the man his rest, he’s more than earned it.

 

[Ben Holt]

I hope to hell that we get way more than 5 DLC characters. Please give us three or four more DLC packs.
As of right now, World of Light will make or break this game. The roster is too small. All veterans returning SHOULD have been expected. Cuts should have NEVER happened. To blame the lack of trophies, custom moves (supposedly), and newcomers on bringing back veterans is a poor excuse. Don't cut characters in the first place. All-Star Mode has been botched to hell. A glorified Endless Smash.
If World of Light is a flop, then this game is a flop. Should have just been Smash 4 Deluxe at that point. Smash Run was fun. Events were not on par with Melee, but still fun enough. Master and Crazy Orders were fun, especially the latter with its risk/reward system. Even trophy collecting was fun. If the new World of Light doesn't hold up, I may have to rate this as the second worst Single Player in Smash history. And Smash 64 had a reason to be comparatively bad. If we don't get ample DLC to at least have a complete-feeling roster (Grinch leak was fake, but it FELT COMPLETE), then perhaps it is time to pass the torch, Sakurai. It ALL hinges on World of Light.
This Direct absolutely KILLED my hype. No one wanted generic-ass Incineroar over the actually cool and unique Decidueye or even fan-favorite classic, Blaziken, if it had to be a Fire Starter. As much as I like Piranha Plant as an unorthodox fighter, it just feels insulting that it got in over Mario characters like [Captain] Toad, Geno, Paper Mario, Waluigi, or even underdogs like King Boo, Wart, Birdo, Glydon, Mario Kart Racer (shamelessly plugging my own unorthodox character idea) or just Petey Pirhana. If he can fit in a Kart, he can be scaled down like Bowser and Ridley.

You may have guessed by now, but I give this Direct a 2/10 at best. I pray for quality DLC and a good World of Light to save this game.

 

[zeonie888]

Satisfaction rating...

Ken: 90%

Incineroar: 100%

Pirahna Plant: 100%

Spriits: 45%

World of Light: 100%

Other: 15%

Overall: 75%

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Satisfaction

Blond Ryu: 30%
I've never played Street Fighter, so there's really no nostalgia value in having him on the roster. I wondered back in Sm4sh why he wasn't a Alph-style costume for Ryu in the first place, but here he is. And he's also breaking every rule of "echoes need to have the same stats and moves" - I thought he was unique for a bit.

Bara Tiger: 85%
I wasn't originally on any Pokémon train (except Squirtle and Mewtwo returning), but with all of the Vergy talk, I did start to like him. Especially for the potential memes. And he really does look great.

Deku Baba: 40%
Not even mad. Would not have picked it, even as the 'generic Mario enemy' rep (that would have been Hammer Bro), but I'm still laughing about it. I guess it helps that Ridley and K.Rool are both in, Squirtle and Mewtwo are returning, and Tails and Dovahkiin are both pipe dreams. I do feel bad for the supporters of the characters who did get shot down today though and had to see a literal potted plant instead of what the Grinch promised, though (even though personally I'd take PP over Geno any day)
Also - I'd have loved to see that staff meeting.
Sakurai: Ok, we should add a Piranha Plant to the roster!
Staff: Petey Piranha? He might be a bit too big.
Sakurai: No, a generic Piranha Plant.
Staff: ...
Sakurai: ...
Staff: ...Sir...?
Sakurai: Did I stutter?

Spirits: 50%
Looks decent, but I fear how much this is replacing. I liked Trophies, so just getting basic artwork is nowhere near as cool, especially seeing the fighter/Final Smash/item/assist trophies in HD and playing with them in the photo gallery. However, if the spirits jpgs come with a short bio like the trophies had, I'd actually be fine with it.

World of Light: 75%
I need more info, but that song is glorious. Great cinematic to get into it, but very disappointed that Kirby ended up the savior...again. At least make the original 8 survive. Still, if this mode has tons of replayability, I'll be happy.

Biggest Excitements From the Direct and Treehouse: Seeing K.Rool in action (that dThrow and uSmash!), Pichu's Team Aqua band, YL has 64Link's intro, and Incineroar's kit
Biggest Disappointments: All Star is just a generic 100-man Smash, no more trophies

Order of Newcomers by how hyped I am:

 

[aarchak]

No one wanted generic-*** Incineroar over the actually cool and unique Decidueye or even fan-favorite classic, Blaziken

You're allowed to have your own opinions, but I'm gonna stop you there on that one. Post-attack posing, wrestling, expressive Incineroar is generic, but Blaziken, a Fire-Fighting type with little personality and only a basic martial arts theme that many Pokemon have done and are doing is a better pick? Please explain your logic to me there.

 

[DjinnandTonic]

I am so disappointed that we only got 3 newcomers today. And none of them were very exciting...

I was trying to keep my hopes tempered, but somehow it all ended up disappointing despite my thoughts back in 2015 that Smash 4 was basically perfect...

That's the mark of truly poor presentation/advertising. I was already satisfied yet due to how they built hype and overpromised and underdelivered, I am now somehow completely soured on a thing I loved.

*sigh*

I guess I should start with my thoughts on what I want out of a Smash Roster:
Either we need to have EVERYTHING, or we need to curate it to the more nebulous 'most deserving'.
Smash 4 did a great job of cutting out a lot of the lame character choices while retaining a predominantly well-known and diverse cast of characters!
Smash Ultimate promised EVERYONE IS HERE and basically overreached.

I'm okay with not having Isaac/Geno/Decidueye/BandanaDee/Impa/Shantae/Springman/Rex/whoever so long as we've got some sort of criteria for how we're choosing our representatives. But when you throw in random Piranha Plant but leave (literally any named Mario character left) on the cutting room floor, it really throws your priorities into question.

For me, I don't really get attached to non-characters. I need a proper narrative to develop any level of interest in a character. Smash does a decent job of assigning personality through clever animation, but it's surface-level at best. I kinda hate veterans like Game&Watch, ROB, Miis as it is... Piranha Plant is somehow worse. It's a funny concept for like a minute, but then the reality of how 'lol im so randum' it is sinks in...

I haven't really been on board with the whole 'Everyone is HERE!' idea since the beginning. I didn't really think we needed Roy back. Nor Pichu or Wolf. Pokemon Trainer is a cute gimmick, but Charizard was fine as a solo fighter. Getting Snake and Ice Climbers back, along with their unique movesets was pretty amazing though.

Echoes are an interesting concept - I like that they are considered 'nice bonus content' that doesn't take much development time. Especially for big-name characters that work well as Echoes of their original fighter. But at the same time, they'd also be the first things I'd cut to decrease the bloat of fighters that add basically nothing to the game. Or at the very least, ALL of the Clones would need to be Rebranded. Why are Pichu, Dr. Mario, Lucas, Roy, Wolf, Falco not repackaged as Echoes too? I dislike this inconsistency. I can't quite put my finger on why it bothers me so much, but I suspect it has something to do with how much presentation and representation matters to me...

World of Light's Story mode looks amazing though. The real saving grace of the Direct.

Satisfaction ratings:

Ken: 100%
Not a huge fan of Echoes, but I had been hoping for a Alph/Olimar-style Ken skin for Ryu since Smash 4. I'm happy he got represented. I would have been happier with a costume or an Assist if SmashU had a more focused roster, but this is the timeline we live in, so this was the best possibility for Ken himself.

Incineroar: 30%
I have complex feelings about this one. First, I wouldn't have cared that much about not getting a Pokemon at all. But getting overrepresentation of final-stage Fire Starters while we have 0 final-stage Grass Starters bugs me. (Similarly, I hate that we have no Axe or Spear-using FE reps, but 7 swordfighters...)
So yeah, I wanted Decidueye. He was awesome in Pokken. He had a sleek design. Ranged fighter. Winged Fighter. Grass Starter. GHOST TYPE! Evolves from the cutest pokemon in existence...
Incineroar is fine on his own merits, but muscled out Decidueye and that hurts a lot.
That said, I like cats. We don't have any feline reps in Smash, so that's cool. Big fan of pro-wrestling too, and a Heel fighter is a good villain rep.
If Gen 8 comes out and gives us another AMAZING Grass Starter like Decidueye AND that Grass Starter gets into SmashU as DLC somehow... then my Incineroar rating could easily turn from 30% to 90%. But the loss of Decidueye is deeply felt.

Piranha Plant: 10%
Would be zero, but I admit, it's kinda funny for a minute.
No narrative, nameless mook from the most overrepresented franchise that still had quite a few bigger name characters to choose from. It exists to show off how Sakurai can still surprise us. And that is a TERRIBLE reason to throw resources at a terrible idea. He's not even Petey Piranha, the ACTUAL named Piranha Plant character...
What's more, it's probably going to hurt Decidueye's OR a Gen8 Grass Starter's chances for getting in, due to being the big 'plant' rep now...
So... yeah, I hate this thing for ruining the chances of Toad, Waluigi, Petey Piranha, King Boo, every Paper Mario partner, Decidueye, potential Gen8 Grass Starter, and every other potential 'non-final-boss' enemy character out there.

*sigh* I want to be positive, but the salt is too strong...

 

[Ze Diglett]

Alright, now that I've had some time to sit on this thing, hopefully this won't be a totally scathing review.

Ken: Abstain
I really just cannot bring myself to feel one way or the other about Ken. He's an Echo, and I'm largely ambivalent towards those in the first place, he's been a shoo-in for a couple of months now, and he's from a series I don't care about. Really... meh.

Incineroar: 5%
Eugh.
There are... a couple reasons I was disappointed by Incineroar's reveal. The Grinch leak is the obvious, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. For one, I was just never a fan of Incineroar's design. I liked Litten, and it had the makings of a cool final evo, but then... it dropped everything I liked about Litten and turned into what might as well be another Fire/Fighting starter. Yuck. Furthermore, this game already had nine Pokemon as of E3, and the timing of the game's release really didn't support either Gen 7 or Gen 8 from a marketing standpoint. A new Pokemon just seems unnecessary to me at this point, and it really feels like they only added one because Pokemon. To top it all off, I'm really not liking how he'll play in this game, being legitimately slower than a potted plant and all. Speaking of which...

Piranha Plant: 99%
SPECULATION HAS CHANGED. BOW DOWN TO YOUR NEW BOTANIC GOD.

In all seriousness, I docked a % just for the bad reveal timing - following up a bunch of heavy deconfirmations with an actual potted plant might not have been the best move. But as for the character himself, I love him, I cherish him, and I hope to make him one of my mains. It's an incredibly stupid idea, perhaps the stupidest idea for a character possible, but that's exactly why I love it so much. It's a freaking potted plant! How can you be mad at that? Besides, Smash hasn't really had a full-fledged joke character before, has it? Let the man have his fun, he's only got so long.

Spirits: 10%
It's... just Stickers 2. And it's also what's replacing Trophies.
...what?

Word of Light: 70%
Eh, it shows promise. I'm not completely sold on it just yet, but I'm open to it being something extremely cool. That first cutscene alone adds, like, 10% by default, and this is probably a personal thing, but Galleom returning from SSE is pretty damn cool in my book. Now we just need Tabuu as the final boss for this mode to be truly perfect...

Overall, though... meh. Nothing about this Direct really jumped out at me other than the World of Light cutscene (and Piranha Plant, in retrospect), and I think I definitely left this Direct considerably less hyped than when I entered it. (They went over Options for something like 10 minutes, for Petey's sake!) Not good, not terrible, just underwhelming. Here's hoping the game's fun!

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Ken - 30%

I'm not a big Street Fighter Fan (I was a Kombat Kid), so I really don't care too much about Ryu or Ken. He seems faithful enough to his game and I'm happy for all you SF fans out there. He's just not my cup of tea.

Incineroar - 75%

Imma be real with you all, the only reason I was rooting for Incineroar to not show up was because it would instantly de-confirm the grinch leak and my boy Banjo... which he immediately did. But I'm not really going to hold it against him at all. I'm actually pretty glad how he turned out. I like how his wrestler aspect is played up moreso than his fire element and that they gave him a beastly edge to his fighting style. He also radiates charm and personality, which I like in a fighter. His clothesline attack and cross chop looks sick too.

Piranha Plant - 60%

Oh boy, the main divisive pick, even moreso than Incineroar. To be honest, when I first saw his trailer in the direct I honestly believed that Sakurai was messing with us. Like, really? A PIRANHA PLANT!? After the initial shock, I gradually began to accept it. Even though there are other fighters that I would've wanted more, I'm not too against Piranha Plant. The part I like most about him is that he shifts types depending on attacks (i.e. spiky piranha for a smash attack and putrid piranha for a poison breath). I'm still a little iffy on him, but who knows, over time he might grow on me (heh)

Spirits - 30%

While I get making trophies have more of an effect on the game, this aint it. This just looks like a fusion of trophies and custom characters, which virtually nobody I knew liked in 4. The only thing I remotely liked were the different event matches, but even they felt off.

World of Light - 50%

When I first saw World of Light's cutscene, I thought "damn, this is awesome!" But the more I learn about it, the more I'm doubtful of this gamemode. In the Japanese direct, it's emphasized that apart from the intro cutscene, there aren't any other cutscenes of the characters interacting, which was the main thing I was hoping to see in this mode. Also the overworld looks a lot like smash tour, so that makes me quite skeptical. I'm going to hold off judgement until we see more of this mode though, I just hope it isn't as bare-bones as it looks right now, especially after how it was built up for two months.

Overall Direct - 55%

While not too bad and with some genuine surprises, it does leave a bit of a sour note compared to the August Direct and E3.

I'll also rank the newcomers from my favorite to least favorite:

Ridley
K. Rool
Incineroar
Simon/Richter
Dark Samus
Daisy
Piranha Plant
Isabelle
Inkling
Chrom
Ken

 

[TheCJBrine]

Incineroar IS NASTY:

100% - Awesome flaming heel breaks in and is ready to serve himself some fries with the gathered salt. He has cool moves and cool animations for when he hits opponents and even misses them, and seems fun to play. Though Decidueye was my starter, I've come to like Incineroar's design and he seems cool and funny as a heel

AmeriKen:

50% - He seems cool and was in a cool trailer with Incineroar, but I don't really care ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PIRANHA PLANT RUINS SPECULATION:

100% - If you thought Incineroar was a heel, you haven't dealt with this guy...gal...thing?! I'd still like a playable Goomba, but Piranha Plant was an awesome and hilarious surprise, and he...she...it is ready to drink your tears Hat Goomba argument has also been completely thrown out the window

Spooky(?) Scary(?) Spirits:

70% - I don't really care, but it seems cool and at least it gives us a way to play as some characters...kind-of?!

Hashi no Kaabii 2: Kirby our Savior:

100% - Everyone is Dead?! Kirby becomes the hero in an awesome-looking adventure mode, and this pink puffball being the hero seems perfect.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Can anyone explain to me what happened with All-Star Mode? Is that even still a thing?

Also I guess I’ll rate newcomers too.

Chrom
K. Rool
Ridley
Simon
Dark Samus
Isabelle
Inkling
Ken
Daisy
Richter
Incineroar

 

[Starbound]

Ken: 100%
Incineroar: 100%
Piranha Plant: 100%
All three characters look really fun and I can't wait to try them all, especially the plant.

Spirits/World of Light: 100%
I'm fairly sure these are the same thing given the same UI. But if Spirits is just a renamed Master Orders, then that's unfortunate.

No Trophies: 100%
I'm so glad this game focuses on cutting the fat that takes up so much development time.

Really my only complaint is how shoddy All Star mode is now but I knew it was probably getting gutted with the huge amount of characters

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Can anyone explain to me what happened with All-Star Mode? Is that even still a thing?

Form the way it went in the direct...it looks like it's just "100-man Smash but with the playable roster instead of Miis" It seems to have the same knockback scaling that causes them to die with one or two hits and then just keep popping up until the end.

Honestly, I'm really bummed about that. I wanted a proper All-Star mode, even if it would take about an hour per character.

And, with them not addressing any of the other traditional single player stadium modes...it looks like World of Light is gonna be it. Hope it's worth it.

 

[Rayleigh]

Satisfaction (Characters, Trophies, and Spirits): 100% (Add an extra 100% for that Mii Costume tho.)

I'm not a pessimistic kinda guy, nor am I the type to believe in anything without proof (Remember kids: A leak is a lie without confirmation). Ken was a natural thing coming, and to see him fight Little Mac in the ring was fun...but watching him get thrashed by everyone's favorite* Lucha-Lynx was a veritable treat...He taunts after every attack! That is the Sakurai Seal of Quality right there: that attention to detail and character authenticity is glorious. To see many fan favorites returning or appearing as assist trophies is mildly upsetting and I offer the affected groups my sympathy.

Pirahna Plant is hilarious, and reminds those people who talk about 'worth' that the game is, at its core, about being fun...you know, that thing that video games are and that Smash celebrates? This isn't exactly a Video Game Character Country Club or nothing; don't see no Golf Course or Equine Arena.

Replacing Trophies with Spirits was a wise choice; makes it easier to include more of them for less work, while also making that work relevant and useful in some way or form (character augmentation). Trophies were nice to spin around and look at, but...they didn't really...do anything. This, oddly enough, makes the notion of the assist trophy amusing as it is no longer a term used for differentiation. Also, remember kids: a character with a spirit does not exclude them from being playable. K.Rool was shown to have a spirit.

...And I guess this is the part where I remind everyone that Custom Robo isn't dead, I'm hyped for its return to Smash, and that I'm now maining Mii Gunner.


Satisfaction (Spirit Mode): 100%

Spirits Mode looks hype: it's essentially a fusion of Subspace and Event Mode, with a little bit of map exploration for added flavor. Not much else to say.

Satisfaction (Online): 100%

An interesting choice, making people work to get into the "Real" For Glory section. It works, I'd say, and also allows people to play different modes casually to boot!

Satisfaction (Overall): 100%

I'm an optimist in the end. For those who haven't gotten their characters yet, I hope that you'll keep the faith until the true and proper end...and then carry on to the next game if necessary!

 

[GoodGrief741]

Form the way it went in the direct...it looks like it's just "100-man Smash but with the playable roster instead of Miis" It seems to have the same knockback scaling that causes them to die with one or two hits and then just keep popping up until the end.

Honestly, I'm really bummed about that. I wanted a proper All-Star mode, even if it would take about an hour per character.

And, with them not addressing any of the other traditional single player stadium modes...it looks like World of Light is gonna be it. Hope it's worth it.

Oh come on! Really?

I thought Smash 4 had poor single player content, but this is ridiculous.

 

[Mario123311]

Satisfaction (Characters, Trophies, and Spirits): 50%

Klonoa isn't an assist or a spirit. And the fact Lloyd is no longer a Mii costume has me worried they are going to shoehorn him in as DLC. Namco loves shoving Tales down my throat while apparently only acknoledging Pac-Man's hayday. Because it's not like most actual fans wanted him in Smash 4 due to Pac-Man World giving him such an expansive moveset. -_-;;

I'm worried I won't get even a single song again either from the World trilogy.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

And I guess this is the part where I remind everyone that Custom Robo isn't dead, I'm hyped for its return to Smash, and that I'm now maining Mii Gunner

I was actually confused by Ray's inclusion as a costume... Ray MK III was an assist trophy back in Brawl, but now he is a Mii costume... is that considered an upgrade? Is it better for a character to be repped as an assist trophy or as a Mii costume? King K. was a Mii costume, but Little Mac and Isabelle were assist trophies. Ray being a costume was supposedly an upgrade viewed by many, but is it bad that I would rather see characters who couldn't be fighters as assist trophies instead? They look a lot better than costumes imo... Seeing Ray revealed as a costume seemed like a downgrade to be grouped with a bunch of basic Halloween outfits with a handful of specialized designs. Bad decision in my opinion, especially with Ray being a past assist. At least you can fight as him (?!), I just don't know why him and not someone like Isaac (even though Isaac was my most wanted fighter, I was really upset when he got purged, but why is he an assist and Ray is a costume when they came from the same circumstances?)

And the fact Lloyd is no longer a Mii costume has me worried they are going to shoehorn him in as DLC.

To be fair, I don't believe they showed any returning outfits. And they couldn't show every spirit, so Klonoa isn't out yet. I personally would be fine with Lloyd Irving as one of the DLCs though.

 

[Rayleigh]

<Ray Post>

Considering most people think that the removal of all Custom Robo content from the last game was tied to the inaccurate assumptions towards the copyrights (see links in sig for more)? Seeing Custom Robo return in this way is a substantial upgraded from Smash 4...and, even, Brawl, since there's more Custom Robo content of actual worth (trophies, as stated in my opinion, had no applicable gameplay value past their collection). Plus, the costume sets the stage for potential DLC (more on that in the Custom Robo thread) if the concept of Assist Trophies not being promoted mid-entry is verified as a truth.

It's all about keeping the faith, my friend.

 

[Starbound]

Oh come on! Really?

I thought Smash 4 had poor single player content, but this is ridiculous.

I legit don't know how you can say that when we have an elaborate adventure mode.

 

[Hinata]

Street Fighter Dude Who Looks American But Is Actually Japanese: 80%

I've always been a big fan of the idea of adding Ken, and god damn, Sakurai did him justice. The Shippu Jinraikyaku is easily one of my favorite Final Smashes, and Ken in general just looks like a better Ryu, which is 100% fine by me. Ken is a cool character, I like his moveset, and I'm hella excited to try him out.

Yes, Hate Me More, Your Hate Gives Me Power: 75%

Not my first choice for a Pokemon newcomer, but Sakurai made him look so fun. Everything about Incineroar's moveset perfectly encapsulates the heel, flashy wrestler he's supposed to represent. Sakurai has an uncanny ability to make any character look fun, and he really worked his magic on Incineroar. I'm very content. He might not end up being a main, but I'll sure as hell give him a shot.

A Goomba With A Hat Doesn't Seem So Farfetched Now, Huh: 90%

Taking 10% off because he just threw me for a loop when he was revealed, and it took me a good few hours to adjust to his inclusion. But once I did, goddamn does he look fun. He's an absolute waste of a character slot, and I love him for it. He's the perfect WTF character, and I've already made at least one of my friends accept a dare to main him for at least a month once the game comes out.

Stickers 2: This Time It's Personal: 20%

Eh. Looks cool, and like something I'll **** around with a bit, but I would've rather had trophies. At least it let Sakurai make a joke about Fiora being made of metal.

Kirby Star Allies: This Time With No Allies: 95%

Holy hell, that mode looks fun. It looks like some kind of top down platformer where you just occasionally fight some dudes, or even get into some boss fights. I can't wait to find out where Dracula is on this map and beat him up.

 

[Lord-Zero]

Satisfaction

Ken: 5%
- Meh. I really don’t care for him. He was a shoo-in for a very long time.

Incineroar: 0% (infinity negative numbers)
- My least liked Gen 7 Pokemon. If they REALLY wanted a character that had a wrestling theme, there were more popular options available from different series like the wrestler from the Rhythm Heaven series or even Zangief. This has Masuda’s fingerprints all over it. This thing isn’t even the most popular starter nor is it the star of the Pokemon anime currently airing. I take it Masuda will attempt to force it on people just like GF tried to do with Zoroark. Rowlet and Primarina are far more popular. Terrible fursuit design. I guess it’ll become my permanent punching bag for Training Mode.

“B-but look at its personality!” Zangief and the RH wrestler would’ve been able to pull the same thing.

“B-but it’s a HEEL!” I don’t care for it. This thing should’ve been DLC. That way I wouldn’t have to look at its face in the CSS.

Piranha Plant: 0%
- What...even...I appreciate the creativity but this thing got over far more requested characters and I find that a bit insulting. Waluigi fans in particular probably feel like crap now.

Spirit/World of Light: 5%
- Meh. At least I saw Tsubasa. I’ll have to get my hands on it to give it a better score.

Online: 2%
- I hardly fight online so it’s irrelevant to me.

The single player mode is even weaker than Smash 4’s. Sakurai blew his hype load way too early and crashed the train with Incineroar and a literal mook. Losing the regular trophies sucks. I was one of the few who actually enjoyed earning those trophies and then spend a while looking at them and reading around them.

Ken and Incineroar should’ve been revealed in September and then leave the Belmonts and K.Rool for last to end on a high note.

Overall: 0%
- Whatever hype I had died in the morning. Thanks Sakurai and Masuda.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I legit don't know how you can say that when we have an elaborate adventure mode.

This elaborate adventure mode appears to be a bunch of glorified event matches with a nice little map tying them together. And this is coming from a person who likes the adventure mode. It’s hardly new ground for the series, and there doesn’t appear to be any replay value after unlocking the characters. Smash Run was more unique than this, and that was literally stolen from another game.

And what do we have beyond that? Classic Mode looks good (probably why it was revealed early). All-Star Mode is ruined now. Stage Builder? Special and Crazy Orders? Stadium Events? We saw none of that, so they’re probably gone. We don’t even have trophies to collect.

 

[Ben Holt]

You're allowed to have your own opinions, but I'm gonna stop you there on that one. Post-attack posing, wrestling, expressive Incineroar is generic, but Blaziken, a Fire-Fighting type with little personality and only a basic martial arts theme that many Pokemon have done and are doing is a better pick? Please explain your logic to me there.

Because Blaziken has real popularity. Incineroar has artificial popularity because TPC is trying to promote him so much, but the fans clearly prefer Decidueye. I'm not saying that Blaziken is unique in any way. He's just a far more popular Pokemon than Incineroar if they HAD to go with a Fire starter.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Time for my ratings on satisfaction and such for today:

Ken - 100%
I was honestly surprised by how much effort went it to making Ken a unique and interesting looking character as an "Echo." He seemed to break all the notions of Echo fighter we had previously with just how much he had going for him. I love his unique animations and moves, and honestly he might become preferred to Ryu. I know that he was pretty much a given character for so long, but they didn't butcher his design and gave him real care and attention. He's one of the few Echoes I seriously wanted and thought made sense, and he was definitely the best pleasant surprise of the Direct.

Incineroar - 75%
I really came in expecting to absolutely hate Incineroar. I didn't think we needed another Pokemon, I thought his design was pretty crap, and that running animation from the anime made him look absolutely horrifying...

And then I saw him today, and how Sakurai approached him as a character, and went, OK. Sakurai really focused on making him a wrestler Pokemon and that alone. The throw in the ring mechanic is actually really unique, and making him a bigger tank focused on throws and big hits make his personality shine more than I ever expected it would. To the point where I not only accept him, but am seriously interested in giving him a shot.

That said, I would have loved to have seen him taken further. I was really, really hoping he'd pick up a couple of more heel oriented moves where he played tricks (or just downright hit characters with a chair or something for fun). I'm glad they made him more unique, I just wish they went even further. And again, I just don't think another Pokemon was needed and he doesn't quite do enough to justify his place on the roster in my mind.

Piranha Plant - 90%
Does this character deserve to be in the game? Eh, not really. Is it a pretty rough slap in the face to all those people who were hoping for their favorites they've supported over the years? Definitely. Does that matter in rating my satisfaction of the character? Not really.

Sakurai loves his weird characters, and I'm glad we got one, even if I didn't necessarily want it in this way... I tend to love them, and the Plant doesn't seem to be the exception. I love the weird and zany move set, especially all of the weird little animations to make the Piranha Plant a fighter that can actually move and participate. Turning into Petey Piranha is great because it sort of gives me a character I like in that form to, so I'll allow it. Plus, taking influence from good Paper Mario games isn't a bad thing. Lots of better Mario characters around, but this weird little **** is kind of endearing.

Spirits - 40%
Beautiful cut-scene, interesting looking map, and the return of bosses is all great. Some neat challenges through modifiers is great as well. A glorified Event Mode that Sakurai seems to be making a huge deal out of? Less exciting... I don't know, I've commented on this elsewhere and I just wasn't really sold on the mode. It'll be nice to play through and seems to have some content, but it just looks like a bunch of matches, and it doesn't seem like we'll get more interesting cut scenes to expand upon the one we saw. It just didn't feel like a premiere mode to me, and that was probably the most disappointing part of the Direct given I had such high hopes and that they spent so much time on the mode...

Maybe it'll play better once I have the game?

Ranking the Newcomers - Final

1. King K. Rool - My number two most requested fighter coming into the game. And the attention to detail given to his move set incorporating all of the moves from his various appearances is just a thing of beauty.
2. Ridley - He was my number one coming into the game. His move set isn't quite as amazing as I would have hoped, but he does have a brutality to him that I enjoy and represents him well. Still super stoked to play him.
3. Simon Belmont - My most requested third party franchise was Castlevania, and he and the series look represented perfectly. The whip is exactly as I hoped it would be, and all the specials seem on point. Plus I have to rank him high for the wonderful music he brings.
4. Richter Belmont - See above.
5. Inkling - The most obvious pick coming into Ultimate, but a fully realized one that deserves a place in Smash with the unique techniques that they seem to have. Plus I love Splatoon.
6. Dark Samus - I love the attention to detail given to making Dark Samus feel menacing and unique from Samus. Exactly the kind of character I was hoping for from Echo fighters. Though, perhaps a little too beholden to Samus for it's own good.
7. Ken - A sensible Echo fighter with a lot of attention paid to his inclusion and helping to make the Street Fighter portion of Smash feel all the more complete.
8. Isabelle - She's freaking adorable and Animal Crossing definitely needed more reps coming into Smash Ultimate. I wish she was a little more unique, but she works well enough and I'm glad to see her around.

All of those characters I'm completely satisfied with. So here's the final few and I generally like them too:

9. Piranha Plant - See my analysis above. An interesting and weird pick for the series. I love how strange this character looks and plays, and while I'm a bit frustrated with it's inclusion, I'll still rank it well.
10. Incineroar - My least favorite unique newcomer, but one still well enough realized for me to understand his inclusion and see him as a fighter I'll enjoy playing perhaps in the future.
11. Daisy - She makes sense and she has some nice animations. I'm just also indifferent to her.
12. Chrom - I don't think Roy is necessary, and he Echoes him as another blue haired sword wielder from Fire Emblem. He might play more interestingly with Ike's Up-B and being devoid of Roy's Danger Close mechanic, but I also find him to be the least interesting/compelling part of the roster by far. Happy for his fans.

I see why all of these characters got in and I'm not particularly frustrated with the inclusion of any single one. While I certainly wanted more fighters of my choosing, I'm happy with the overall results now that the smoke is beginning to settle. Some were certainly much more hype worthy than others, but again, I'm generally satisfied with what we have. Especially with Everyone returning to the roster as well.