Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[I.D.]

4 times as many as Geno

 

[Opossum]

How the hell is four games somehow not a lot when the numbered entries only go up to three.

Come on now.

 

[Malo Mart]

yeah, 4 games that are veerry important to the series so id say down playing them is a mistake

I'm not exactly downplaying them. I know that even the tiniest little things in KH are considered canon and I believe you that those games are integral to understanding the series' story and whatnot. My reason for saying KH doesn't have much presence on Nintendo is because no matter how important those games are, they are still a small amount in the grand scheme of things. Doesn't help that the most recent one was a while back in 2012 and we've got nothing since. That could be seen as a hit to Sora, but I'm not gonna hold that against him either way

 

[AugustusB]

Haven't done this since....I forget haha.

Geno, the Puppet Wonder
Chance: 50%
I have certainly said if a second pass happens, Geno's chances skyrocket. I have gone on record in the Geno Thread as "He is happening". I will do an honest rating on this however. It all comes down to what "rules" are put in to this new pass. Byleth helped with the "Franchise already in Smash will not get a new Rep" rule being destroyed. Geno being a Mario character owned by Square is...confusing. About this new pass, will we follow the same formula of new characters without Spirits? Is being a Spirit PNG even a disqualifier at this point? No one knows. I will say I feel confident that it is happening, but will take the L if we see another Square character show up.

Want: 100%
He is a freaking Swiss army knife that just happens to walk and have emotions. I feel he represents a part of Mario history NOT heavily represented in Smash yet (Other than the Paper stage and Spirits). I played SMRPG last year and loved it.

Sora, the Heart, Light, Dark Boy
Chance: 50%
Sora is in such a weird place as well. Disney owns him, but Square makes him. I think it would take nothing but a miracle for the companies involved to make it work. However, Hero had a lot more studios to talk with and they got in, so...not impossible.

Want: 100%
Sora would be awesome in Smash! Kingdom Hearts is one of my favorite game series (even though 3 did not sit well with me) and is certainly up there for me. Not having any Disney characters could work, but it would kind of be weird without Donald and Goofy helping in his FS.

Predictions:
Heihachi: 50%
Nightmare: 50%

Nominations: Do not know who has been done yet...
Breath of the Wild 2 Ganondorf x5

"Wait, you want Geno AND Sora!?" Yeah! Why not both!? WHY DO WE ARGUE!? Lets drop the off topic talk gang, eh?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

How the hell is four games somehow not a lot when the numbered entries only go up to three.

Come on now.

There is more KH "spin offs" then there are Numbered games pfff. The most important one in the group being a damn mobile game that just recently explained how one could time travel

 

[Gryphon827]

Geno

Chance: 5%

SMRPG has been a dead IP for over 24 years now, and as we've seen from Corrin, Hero and Byleth, Nintendo prefers to use these DLC slots to advertise upcoming/recent games. I highly doubt that Nintendo will release a new SMRPG game at any point in the future. The only way he could potentially get in is if Sora/Nintendo get tired of all of the manchildren crying over their irrelevant character not being in the game and shovels him in just because.

Want: 0%

If I could put a negative number here, I would. I hate everything about Geno as a character, and honestly can't think of any character that could deserve a spot on the roster any less than him. He's a badly written character from a 24-year-old trainwreck of a game. The only people that actually want him are either old people who have never played any video games other than SMRPG and the Smash games, or literal babies who think "He HaS mAgIc, ThAt'D bE cOoL".

Ok, Geno hate-rant over, let's move on.

Sora

Chance: 50%

While KH3 didn't release on any Nintendo consoles, previous games of his have; Banjo was in that exact same scenario when he got put in. Also, while Disney is relatively strict, Square Enix has gotten one of their characters in in the past, so it's not entirely impossible.

Want: 25%

Never played a KH game in my life, but I don't hate him (unlike Geno).

Nominations
If we haven't talked about her yet, then Viridi (from KI:U) x5; If we have, then abstain.

Edit: Apparently voicing your opinion in a thread about voicing your opinion is considered "trolling/bait." The moderation on this site is absolutely flawless with no abuse of power at all.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Geno

Chance: 0%
The one thing Geno has going for him is a dedicatd and vocal fanbase. How big it is is actually fairly ambiguous... not like it matters at this point. Geno was rejected once during a time when it'd have made more sense to include him and no reasons were given, unlike Heihachi or Dixie Kong. That basically means there was no one reason to reject him and it simply didn't work out. Today, those reasons likely haven't changed and Geno only exists within a smash community anymore. You don't hear talk of Geno within the Mario fanbase, he's become largely irrelevant to them, souring the one good point Geno had.

On top of that, he's already a spirit and it stands to logic that Sakurai made spirits of characters who are never going to become playable. Those who could've been may have been withheld, possibly to be released at a later date in a Spirit Event (e.g. Resident Evil, Astral Chain...). Those were circumstantial evidence. Then you have iconic status (while not as important as gameplay, it's still important and Sakurai never denied this fact) which Geno doesn't have... We're talking DLC pass where Geno has to compete with the likes of Dante who pioneered a whole new genre. Marking an entire generation of players. Forget it, Geno will never make it in as DLC. Base roster is another story, one we know about for this game, still unclear for the next one.

Want: 0%
I played and loved SMRPG years ago. Geno was my favourite character then. Now, I'm sick of hearing about him and sometimes I find myself projecting that frustration and hate on Geno himself. I just wish people would stop force-feeding us more Geno "leaks", "theories" and whatnot all the damn time (not necessarily in this thread but in other places). I've no issue with supporting a character you like but I've seen Geno fans acting entitled, belittling others supporting other characters etc... and of course, they (both sides actually) refuse to actually listen, birthing the same tired "debates" over and over again. This is toxic behaviour. I support Riesz, Isaac, Amaterasu, Eggman and plenty others but I won't shove it in everyone's faces. Ugh, sorry... this topic irritates me every time.

Sora

Chance: 60%
Kingdom Hearts is a massive and very well-known franchise. There may be some issues when it comes to licensing but that's not what could stop Sakurai. You know what could stop him? Preventing him from using a design he likes or a moveset he feels represents well the character. He admitted fearing to have to cancel the Pac-Man fighter project if his concept hadn't been well-received by Namco. He didn't want to use the latest Pac-Man design after all. Anyway, that's the biggest negative to Sora's chances I can see. Disney is known to have meddled in KH3's Frozen storyline and check youtubers etc adhere to their vision. If they try to cast those chains on Sakurai, Sora simply won't be in.

Want: abstain
His moveset could be interesting, could even include some Chain of Memories (with the card system) but I'm not really a fan of the franchise. I don't hate or even dislike it mind you. I just don't give it much mind is all. Hard to voice a want then, wouldn't you agree?

Predictions:
Heihachi - 38%
Nightmare - 3%

Nominations: Segata Sanshiro x10

I think there was a pretty obvious reason to reject him both times: obviously SE's two biggest franchises had to get in first. Now that that's out of the way, things are certainly different.

Who exactly from Square-Enix (or Nintendo) is going to make that first move?

Uhhh, Sakurai? The guy who publicly stated he wants Geno in?

Aight, I'm dumb dumb. Guess I'm abstaining from my nomination then

You can edit those too.

 

[I.D.]

Uhhh, Sakurai? The guy who publicly stated he wants Geno in?

If you believe Sakurai's words, he's not the one picking the DLC characters.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If you believe Sakurai's words, he's not the one picking the DLC characters.

Yeah and neither are the guys over at Rare. Honestly I fail to see your point, Microsoft is very much a special case as they are competitors. With other companies Nintendo already has a business relationship, so they'd just get in contact through normal means. Sakurai even stated he went to Square Enix to negotiate characters thinking it wouldn't work out, so clearly there doesn't need to be anyone smoothing things over for deals to succeed.

 

[SSGuy]

Geno

Chance: 5%

The only way he could potentially get in is if Sora/Nintendo get tired of all of the manchildren crying over their irrelevant character not being in the game and shovels him in just because.

Want: 0%

If I could put a negative number here, I would. I hate everything about Geno as a character, and honestly can't think of any character that could deserve a spot on the roster any less than him. He's a badly written character from a 24-year-old trainwreck of a game. The only people that actually want him are either old people who have never played any video games other than SMRPG and the Smash games, or literal babies who think "He HaS mAgIc, ThAt'D bE cOoL".

Ok, Geno hate-rant over

Is it possible to maybe make a post without insulting a fanbase? There is an abstain feature for a reason and based on your post it seems like you know absolutely nothing of the character or the supporters that you are ridiculing.

Same has been said with Banjo, Ridley, K.Rool etc so it isnt like I am offended by your ignorance. I'm just giving you a fair warning on how to not look like a fool.

That is all I will have to say so we don't go off topic. But it would be best to regulate posts like these so we don't dive into ignorant hate campaigns in this thread.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Geno
Chance: 1%
Even if Spirits could be upgraded, I'm not sure if Geno would be the one. Nintendo has at least two or three other candidates that could be a Spirit/AT upgrade and have demand (Waluigi, Isaac and Rex). As for SE, they have 2B, Lara Croft and a few others, so despite Sakurai liking the character, I don't think he'd be the first choice. Geno's hopes lie in an upgraded Mii Costume that better represents him.

Want: 100%
It really bugs me that none of the Mario RPGs have significant representation in Smash besides the Paper Mario stage and a handful of Spirits. Mechanically, they could bring a lot of interesting things to Smash, plus the fact that Geno does stand out from the rest of the Mario cast and has an interesting fighting style.

It's also weird for me to see people referring to Geno as a "side character" when he's a main party member that you need to use for a good while before getting Bowser and Peach, even if for some reason you ditch him afterwards. I get it - it's an old game, but for the love of god, people, at least try to understand what a side character actually is. SMRPG is a good game and represents how the old relationship between Nintendo and Square used to be.

Sora
Chance: 70%
Popular? Check. Recently in everyone's minds? Check. Sakurai likes the series and knows the people who work on it? Check. Have some of the people at Square and Disney said they'd be okay with it? Check.

Sora is arguably the only character, imo, that has practically everything in his favor. There are points about Disney being stingy and evil, but most of these are based on conjecture and anecdotal evidence, with very little application to how Sora can or can't make it. Considering all I said above, I honestly think that Sora is a "when, not an if". Sure, that when might not be in Ultimate, but it's still a when.

Want: 100%
Having played most KH games and feeling Sora's acrobatic swordplay firsthand, not to mention how much I... well, actually like the series, Sora is my most wanted. And of all my most wanted picks, he's the only one that would really make me cry/scream like crazy. I really hope Sora makes it in Ultimate, while everyone is still here.

Predictions
Heihachi: 54.2%
Nightmare: 13.6%

Nominations
[Rerate] Travis Touchdown x 5

 

[I.D.]

Honestly I fail to see your point

My point is that if you believe what Sakurai has said about both fighters passes, his power is limited to a veto system that he can use to reject characters he doesn't think he can make work in Smash and that he is otherwise uninvolved in the selection process.
And even if he was I don't think it helps that much considering he already got permission to use Geno in Smash twice: first time he just made a mii costume and the second time he made him a spirit.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Is it possible to maybe make a post without insulting a fanbase? There is an abstain feature for a reason and based on your post it seems like you know absolutely nothing of the character or the supporters that you are ridiculing.

Same has been said with Banjo, Ridley, K.Rool etc so it isnt like I am offended by your ignorance. I'm just giving you a fair warning on how to not look like a fool.

That is all I will have to say so we don't go off topic. But it would be best to regulate posts like these so we don't dive into ignorant hate campaigns in this thread.

I'd already reported them, I recommend that you do the same and move on.

My point is that if you believe what Sakurai has said about both fighters passes, his power is limited to a veto system that he can use to reject characters he doesn't think he can make work in Smash and that he is otherwise uninvolved in the selection process.
And even if he was I don't think it helps that much considering he already got permission to use Geno in Smash twice: first time he just made a mii costume and the second time he made him a spirit.

Licensing does not grant you unrestricted use of a character. Just because he got the license to use Geno as a Mii Costume doesn't mean he got the license to make him playable. Plus, it's a matter of resources. Even if he did want to make Geno playable, he could have simply not been high enough priority at that point.

It's a pretty poor argument because it can be made for any character that didn't make it into Smash before. "Oh, Sakurai could have added X in Brawl and he didn't, that must mean he can't or doesn't care"

 

[AceAttorney9000]

• Geno
  • Chance - 80%
    • Most of the arguments I've seen against Geno can easily be shot down with a counterargument. He's an irrelevant character from an old game? So was Banjo-Kazooie, who were only in a slightly better position (they still got appearances in other games like Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing and Minecraft, but they were still from an old and dead series that hadn't had a new entry since 2008), yet still managed to get into Smash. He's owned by Square Enix? Stingy as they may seem, they've already shown that they're willing to play ball with Cloud and especially Hero. Square Enix might have other characters they'd want in Smash? That's technically true, and probably the argument that holds up the most, but again... Banjo-Kazooie made it into Smash over the likes of Steve and freakin' Master Chief, two characters that Microsoft had every reason to consider over the bear and bird. Granted, I doubt Geno would be chosen over a Final Fantasy character or Dragon Quest character... but those two are already in the game, meaning two of Geno's biggest obstacles on the road to being playable Smash are already out of the way. Not to mention, it bears reminding that the reason Smash ended up getting Cloud as its Final Fantasy character was because Sakurai himself wanted him. Not Square Enix, Sakurai. And considering Sakurai has also stated his desire to make Geno a full playable character since Brawl... really, the only reason I could see Geno not being playable is if Square Enix decides to be exceptionally stubborn this time around and insist that he stay a Mii Fighter costume or Spirit, which is definitely (and sadly) a possibility (hence why I think only 80% is the highest chance Geno has).
  • Want - 75%
    • I'll admit, my first exposure to Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars wasn't through playing it as a kid on an original SNES... it was through stumbling upon the "Rawest Forest" viral video in the late 2000's and (though I didn't realize it at the time) Geno's cameo in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, and then later through playing the game via the Wii Virtual Console release during my teenage years. So I don't have the same kind of "nostalgic" love for Geno that a lot of fans have... regardless though, I think Geno would be a damn fine addition to Smash. For one, he represents a part of the Mario franchise that has little content in Smash right now (the Mario RPG sub-series), and would be the perfect opportunity to bring in much more fantastic content from those games. Super Mario RPG alone has plenty enough content for Geno to come with a stage, a minimum of seven (heh) spirits, and a minimum of eight music tracks (hopefully remixed). Imagine if Sakurai went the extra mile and included not only that, but also more content from the Mario & Luigi series and the Paper Mario series. Gameplay-wise, while I see Geno being a more "straight-forward" character like Banjo (which isn't a bad thing, mind you), he could potentially bring in the "timed hit" mechanics that have been a staple of the Mario RPG games. How the developers would implement the mechanic, I don't know, but my guess would be something like Dante's moveset in the Marvel vs. Capcom games, where performing a certain attack then pressing the attack button again would result in another attack (if you played Marvel vs. Capcom 3, you may know what I'm talking about). Finally, Geno's inclusion would be nothing but beneficial for all parties involved. Smash fans finally get a long-requested character, Sakurai finally gets to include a character he's wanted to make playable since Brawl, Nintendo gets plenty of DLC sales and some good will for making fans happy, and Square Enix gets a free share of the DLC profits with no effort on their part. Overall, Geno's inclusion would be a win-win situation all around.
• Sora
  • Abstain
    • I'm not very familiar with the Kingdom Hearts series. All I know is that it's a crossover between Disney movies, Final Fantasy, and its own original cast of characters, with a story that's very confusing to the point of being a meme. Not only that, but Sora is technically owned not by Square Enix, but Disney... which I don't think is a big obstacle preventing Sora's inclusion, so much as it's a wild card that makes Sora's chances "unpredictable" (I hope that's the right word for what I'm getting at). It just raises so many questions...
      • Would Sakurai and the developers be willing to negotiate with Disney?
      • If he was, would Disney be willing to cooperate, or would they micromanage the hell out of Sora's development?
      • Would the developers include Disney content and characters like Mickey, Donald, Goofy, Winnie the Pooh, Pirates of the Caribbean, Sleeping Beauty and Maleficent, Hercules, Atlantis, etc.
      • If not, would they barter with Square Enix to include some more content from Final Fantasy, or would they just have original Kingdom Hearts characters and content?
      • Would they at least be willing to reference Disney content with stuff like Sora's Keyblade, or would they scrub anything Disney-related off of everything?
    • Basically, to me Sora's chances are a big fat question mark. I do think it would be cool if he got in (he's a highly fan-requested character from a popular series who would make a lot of Smash fans happy), but as to whether or not he can or will get in... I can't definitively say.

 

[JarBear]

Geno

Chance: 50+%

Once Season 2 was confirmed in September, that did increase the odds for Geno's chances due to his missing Mii costume, Season 2 not being tied to the base game's development like Season 1 was, base Spirits have been edited, SMRPG music take downs, and Sakurai's personal public bias. I am still being cautious about it, but his chances are looking better than before. The biggest thing to see is if any Spirits will get promoted or any of the "missing" mii costumes become a fighter. Right now everything is on the table.

Want: "Over 9000!"

Big Mario RPG fan and have been riding the Geno be Playable Train (TM) for awhile. Despite from being a "side" character from one game, you can't deny the popularity of him getting into Smash for over the years. I guess for me he would represent the relationship between Square and Nintendo once had, as well as the beginning for RPG style games for Mario.

Sora

Chance: 50-%

This one, I am just not too sure on. On the one hand, there is an article that shows Disney would be a-ok with Sora being used ... which sounds great for his chances ... but then again Sora has only been used once outside of Kingdom Hearts game but it was for a very short time. (Anyone feel free to correct me or tell me what game it was ... I can't remember.) On top of that, Sakurai wants to use just Video Game characters ... which Sora certainly is, but you got the whole Disney and crew who are not. Granted, If Sora was in Sakurai could simply NOT reference anything Disney ... but would that be strange? I dunno, Sakurai can do just about anything, so he would make it work.

Want: "Sure, why not?"

I've played the first two games a long time ago. I thought it was fun. I pretty much just stick to Nintendo games since, well, I don't have much free time and Nintendo is closer to my heart than other systems (Nothing against any of them) So i've pretty much purged my other systems years ago. Anyway, with Sora, he is a popular character and has some good demand. I am not personally attached to him, but he would be a welcomed addition to the roster.

 

[OffBi]

Geno

Chance (90%)

I truly believe that he is coming, i mean come on. His mii costume wasn't revealed with Hero, and there is no other Square character standing in their way, since none of them have such fan support as him (Yeah yeah, sora and all that, but we'll talk about that latter). There is no way in hell that they will put the character as a premium mii costume since that seems to be only reserved for indies so far. And i strongly believe that a lousy png would stop Nintendo from upgrading a fighter. Plus, there is so much evidence pointing to them that it's hard to ignore.

Want (100%)

I like them, they'd be such a good addition. A nice way to represent nintendo's wackier side from back then.

Sora

Chance (0%)

I'm sorry to anyone who likes the character, but he is unlikeliest than any other Square character (yeah, even Gex of all characters). Some could argue that he is a Disney character, but that doesn't make things any better. I'm pretty sure that nintendo wouldn't want the mouse in their game that is for GAMING history, not ALL history

Want (eh...%)

Ehh, i'm not really that interested in this character.

That's my Ted talk.

 

[Opossum]

I'm pretty sure that nintendo wouldn't want the mouse in their game that is for GAMING history, not ALL history

This point really doesn't hold any water when you consider Microsoft's more of a computer software and hardware company than a gaming company.

 

[OffBi]

This point really doesn't hold any water when you consider Microsoft's more of a computer software and hardware company than a gaming company.

I'm sorry, what
Why does that matter
That has zero correlation than having a Disney character in smash

 

[Aerospherology]

This point really doesn't hold any water when you consider Microsoft's more of a computer software and hardware company than a gaming company.

Nintendo is a Hanafuda company

 

[axel_]

GENO

Chance: 75%

Ignoring whatever you think of Spirits, there is no doubt Geno is the only character left that people actively talk about. With how much attention Super Mario RPG got from Nintendo in the past decade, including its inclusion on the SNES Classic and even both Geno and Mallow being Spirits, I think it's entirely possible for Sora LTD and Nintendo to want Geno to come as a fighter.

Want: 100%

Alongside Master Chief, Geno was one of the first characters I actually wanted in Smash and I think Smash is what opened me to the wider world of video games. One of the first games I learned about after Brawl was Super Mari RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, so I think I owe a lot to Geno.



SORA

Chance: 30%

One word: Disney. I really think the thing that really holds Sora back from Smash is Kingdom Hearts' ties to Disney, and maybe Sakurai feels like Sora can't be represented well without it in the same way Mai couldn't show up because of her naturally lewd nature.

Want: 50%

Sora's an okay character, and I've seen that he can work great in Smash thanks to things like SSF2, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near my wanted list.


NOMINATIONS: Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear) and Reimu Hakurei (Touhou)

 

[Lord Woomy]

Geno
Chance: 70%-75%

I rarely give any characters much higher than this because sometimes Nintendo can baffle us and prove us all wrong (Even right before E3, I was still around 80%-85% on someone like Banjo, for example lol). I feel like there's been too much going for Geno recently. His missing Mii Costumes, those odd DMCA take downs of 2 SMRPG songs that are heavily associated with Geno, and some leaks to go alongside it, I feel like he does have a lot of evidence going for him that can't just be discounted with "he's a spirit". I also highly doubt Sakurai would stop himself from adding a character just due to a spirit, it never stopped him in 4 with trophies and I don't think it will now either. A lot of arguments against him just feel to me like they're... I dunno trying too hard to disprove everything? I dunno, it's hard to explain but not much has really made me turn my head in terms of counter arguments.

Want: 100%

Yeah, I'm admittedly very biased here (I have a Geno hat in my pfp after all). He seems really cool, SMRPG is a really good game and in Sakurai's own words "He'd be perfect for Smash." I love this lil puppet lol.

Sora
Chance: 10-15%
Yep, here's where we get controversial. I know Sakurai doesn't exactly work in terms of a complex system of rules about which characters can be added or not, but I still feel like his Disney association may really hold him back. If they add Sora and try to be completely faithful then they'll at least have to add some small amounts of Disney content to Smash, something I don't think would be an easy thing to swallow for Nintendo or Sakurai. If they added no Disney content with Sora, then it'd feel really unfaithful to the character and Sakurai seems to try and give series' the most faithful representation he can. I feel as if he's stuck in between a rock and a hard place here. Not to mention, I just feel like his evidence has never been really that compelling to me. I understand he's relevant and popular but that really doesn't make a character any more likely. While relevancy can help a bit, it really doesn't make me feel anymore compelled to think he'll be in. Banjo got in over Steve after all.

Want: 5%
Bias strikes again! I've never played KH before and if he is in, that really gives me dread that Disney content could make it in Smash which I just am really not a fan of. I just really have no connection to this character and I feel like they could really mess it up personally.

 

[TriggerX]

I'm sorry, what
Why does that matter
That has zero correlation than having a Disney character in smash

I believe what Opossum is trying to say is that your argument doesn't make any sense considering Microsoft isn't a video game company either, yet we still got Banjo.

I have to agree with Opossum as well. Both Sony and Microsoft are such large companies whose focus isn't just on gaming so to count Sora out merely for being owned by an entertainment company is a little hypocritical.
Technically Mortal Kombat is owned by Warner Bros, so are they not video game characters?

Honestly I don't know what you call a character that hasn't made any other appearances outside of a video game and was designed for a series/Brand that originated as a video game.

Whats crazy to me is that anyone here can say a character has a 0% chance. We've gotten overlooked characters like Joker and Terry in this pass alone. As well as 4 DQ heroes in one character.

 

[OffBi]

I believe what Opossum is trying to say is that your argument doesn't make any sense considering Microsoft isn't a video game company either, yet we still got Banjo.

I have to agree with Opossum as well. Both Sony and Microsoft are such large companies whose focus isn't just on gaming so to count Sora out merely for being owned by an entertainment company is a little hypocritical.
Technically Mortal Kombat is owned by Warner Bros, so are they not video game characters?

Honestly I don't know what you call a character that hasn't made any other appearances outside of a video game and was designed for a series/Brand that originated as a video game.

Whats crazy to me is that anyone here can say a character has a 0% chance. We've gotten overlooked characters like Joker and Terry in this pass alone. As well as 4 DQ heroes in one character.

What? No!
I said that he doesn't have a chance because he has characters like mickey and donald in their games and they can't be represented in smash.

 

[TriggerX]

What? No!
I said that he doesn't have a chance because he has characters like mickey and donald in their games and they can't be represented in smash.

Oh! lol must have interpreted what you said wrong.

I don't know why people seem to think that he would bring anything disney with him. Lol and even if he did, a key chain is what we are concerned about?

 

[Deleted member]

Predictions
Heihachi: 54.2%
Lloyd: 46.5%

We're predicting Heihachi and Nightmare tomorrow, so you probably want to change that prediction on Lloyd before the day changes.

 

[3BitSaurus]

We're predicting Heihachi and Nightmare tomorrow, so you probably want to change that prediction on Lloyd before the day changes.

Oooh, yeah, brain fart on my part. I saw another guy rating Lloyd, though...

I'll change it appropriately.

 

[Ninjaed]

I think there was a pretty obvious reason to reject him both times: obviously SE's two biggest franchises had to get in first. Now that that's out of the way, things are certainly different.

Like I said, there's no one reason. About other franchises getting in, there are still others from SE that would take priority. For other reasons, you can find counterpoints just the same. Since it's just speculation, definitive proof will never be given anyway so both sides are asking for the impossible (like when I claimed Riesz is the most popular Mana character even over Randi... maybe true maybe false, impossible to prove either way for either of them).

Still, all the points I see in favour of Geno are either circumstantial evidence that run on the assumption that Big N and SE want Geno to be playable (e.g. no mii costume yet) or the "Sakurai wants him" line, which is more like PR to me... not to mention irrelevant, since Sakurai was given a list and a veto right. If Geno wasn't in the list to begin with, tough luck. Because the thing is, those are irrelevant as I fail to see why Nintendo or Square Enix would approach the other with plans to make Geno playable. SE would sooner have 2B, Chocobo and others playable than Geno. Nintendo owns the game so they could add someone from any franchise they own if they so desire.

You could argue "for the fans" and Byleth's trailer does show they listen both good and bad ("another swordfighter" => nope, using the other Relics)... but the ballot already took place, we already got the fan requested characters. And they were in the base roster, not as DLC. Banjo & Kazooie were slightly different as Rare employees contacted Nintendo about them. You'd need the same from Square Enix but unlike Rare, that's not their only shot at putting a character in Smash... and knowing Square Enix, I really don't see them agreeing to have their one precious DLC slot taken by a Nintendo co-owned character they can do nothing with rather than the likes of 2B or Lara Croft. Also SE already got one rep, even the fact that they have another slot is questionable.

I could go on, I'd prove nothing in the end and neither would those who disagree. This is just how I feel and think, hence my score.

Oh! lol must have interpreted what you said wrong.

I don't know why people seem to think that he would bring anything disney with him. Lol and even if he did, a key chain is what we are concerned about?

Doesn't matter if it's as insignificant as a key chain. Disney wouldn't agree to not being represented at all with that character, and if they don't agree there's no way Sora can get in due to their veto rights.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Geez, for a character that hasn't been relevant for roughly 20 years, Geno really is popular to talk about, huh? Never played his game, so I don't understand the appeal, but it's honestly quite fascinating to watch the debate.

 

[TriggerX]

I'm sorry, what
Why does that matter
That has zero correlation than having a Disney character in smash

Like I said, there's no one reason. About other franchises getting in, there are still others from SE that would take priority. For other reasons, you can find counterpoints just the same. Since it's just speculation, definitive proof will never be given anyway so both sides are asking for the impossible (like when I claimed Riesz is the most popular Mana character even over Randi... maybe true maybe false, impossible to prove either way for either of them).

Still, all the points I see in favour of Geno are either circumstantial evidence that run on the assumption that Big N and SE want Geno to be playable (e.g. no mii costume yet) or the "Sakurai wants him" line, which is more like PR to me... not to mention irrelevant, since Sakurai was given a list and a veto right. If Geno wasn't in the list to begin with, tough luck. Because the thing is, those are irrelevant as I fail to see why Nintendo or Square Enix would approach the other with plans to make Geno playable. SE would sooner have 2B, Chocobo and others playable than Geno. Nintendo owns the game so they could add someone from any franchise they own if they so desire.

You could argue "for the fans" and Byleth's trailer does show they listen both good and bad ("another swordfighter" => nope, using the other Relics)... but the ballot already took place, we already got the fan requested characters. And they were in the base roster, not as DLC. Banjo & Kazooie were slightly different as Rare employees contacted Nintendo about them. You'd need the same from Square Enix but unlike Rare, that's not their only shot at putting a character in Smash... and knowing Square Enix, I really don't see them agreeing to have their one precious DLC slot taken by a Nintendo co-owned character they can do nothing with rather than the likes of 2B or Lara Croft. Also SE already got one rep, even the fact that they have another slot is questionable.

I could go on, I'd prove nothing in the end and neither would those who disagree. This is just how I feel and think, hence my score.


Doesn't matter if it's as insignificant as a key chain. Disney wouldn't agree to not being represented at all with that character, and if they don't agree there's no way Sora can get in due to their veto rights.

.
What makes you think Nintendo wouldn’t be ok with that? It’s weird that anyone thinks that the Mickey symbol on his weapon would be such an issue for Nintendo in the first place.

Honestly if he did get in, I personally think they would just leave it there. Just doesn’t seem like a big deal.

smash bros is such a casual game, that the die hard fans make up the minority. The only ones who care about Disney’s involvement in this game are die hard fans, which makes up the minority of people who actually bought it. The majority probably doesn’t care about a Mickey Mouse symbol.

 

[GoodGrief741]

but then again Sora has only been used once outside of Kingdom Hearts game but it was for a very short time.

From my recollection, he's been in both Final Fantasy Brave Exvius (that's probably where he was timed, as it's a gacha) and World of Final Fantasy (in the latter as free DLC).

I'm sorry to anyone who likes the character, but he is unlikeliest than any other Square character

Care to explain why?

If they add Sora and try to be completely faithful then they'll at least have to add some small amounts of Disney content to Smash

No they don't.

I've never played KH before

Yeah, I can tell.

What? No!
I said that he doesn't have a chance because he has characters like mickey and donald in their games and they can't be represented in smash.

So they can just... Put Sora in without Mickey or Donald. Super easy.

 

[OffBi]

From my recollection, he's been in both Final Fantasy Brave Exvius (that's probably where he was timed, as it's a gacha) and World of Final Fantasy (in the latter as free DLC).

Care to explain why?

No they don't.

Yeah, I can tell.

So they can just... Put Sora in without Mickey or Donald. Super easy.

They literally CANNOT include sora without the disney characters, it's not that easy as you think.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

They literally cannot NOT include sora without the disney characters, it's not that easy as you think.

Sora was included in World of Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy Brave Exvius without Disney content.

If they add Sora and try to be completely faithful then they'll at least have to add some small amounts of Disney content to Smash, something I don't think would be an easy thing to swallow for Nintendo or Sakurai. If they added no Disney content with Sora, then it'd feel really unfaithful to the character and Sakurai seems to try and give series' the most faithful representation he can.

They included Cloud without Tifa, Barrett, Sephiroth, and any FF 1-6 characters, they included Terry without Mai, they included Dragon Quest without the DQ3 and DQ4 heroines. They can include Sora without Disney content.

I'm sorry to anyone who likes the character, but he is unlikeliest than any other Square character (yeah, even Gex of all characters). Some could argue that he is a Disney character, but that doesn't make things any better. I'm pretty sure that nintendo wouldn't want the mouse in their game that is for GAMING history, not ALL history

Bias strikes again! I've never played KH before and if he is in, that really gives me dread that Disney content could make it in Smash which I just am really not a fan of. I just really have no connection to this character and I feel like they could really mess it up personally.

What? No!
I said that he doesn't have a chance because he has characters like mickey and donald in their games and they can't be represented in smash.

Oops.

 

[3BitSaurus]

They literally CANNOT include sora without the disney characters, it's not that easy as you think.

Where was that written, exactly? I don't remember that point ever coming up from Sakurai, Nintendo, Disney or SE.

And considering Sakurai straight out says that people should stop asking for non-VG characters, I think he would have said something if that was really the case.

 

[Malo Mart]

I'll just say real quick that even though I made it clear I'm not the biggest Sora fan, he absolutely doesn't need to have any Disney movie characters coming alongside him. There's plenty of options for his stage and Spirit Board that are original to Kingdom Hearts, and even the little Mickey keychain can be changed to a Smash symbol or be removed entirely. So even though I'm very much against non-vidya game content in Smash, I'm totally ok with Sora joining the fray.

 

[CannonStreak]

Sora was included in World of Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy Brave Exvius without Disney content.

They included Cloud without Tifa, Barrett, Sephiroth, and any FF 1-6 characters, they included Terry without Mai, they included Dragon Quest without the DQ3 and DQ4 heroines.



Oops.
View attachment 261054

Though I did not want to get into this, if I may, Mickey and & Donald and Mickey Mouse on the Game and Watch was at a time when Smash Bros., and Sakurai's rules for it did not really exist. This was before then. Plus, you don't see any Disney games listed on the NES, SNES and beyond, do you? Just because they were on the Game and Watch system doesn't mean they are that important to Nintendo. Plus, Nintendo probably made the games themselves, which is why those two games are on there, rather than Disney making them. It;s probably an explanation why those two games are on there to begin with. Even though I could be mistaken on that part, the rest of what I said is what I believe still stands. Plus, Mr. Game and Watch uses stuff from other Game and Watch games for his moveset. When was he ever using something from those Mickey and Donald and Mickey Mouse?

Plus, Sora appearing in other games, mostly Final Fantasy games here, is different from Smash Bros., which is a crossover event. I am sure the Final Fantasy games did not have to include everything from Kingdom Hearts to make Sora appear. Still, the Disney characters are what makes up most of Kingdom Hearts' identity, and by extension, Sora's. Thing is, if Disney characters were not added along with Sora, there would be some confusion, as in, "Where are the other characters from Kingdom Hearts/Donald/Goofy/Mickey?" It may work in some Final Fantasy games, but it would be much harder to do for a big gaming crossover like Smash, which is a celebration of gaming more than anything cartoon or western based like Disney. It's not impossible to do, but it would be much harder, as I said, compared to some Final Fantasy games.

 

[GoodGrief741]

They literally CANNOT include sora without the disney characters, it's not that easy as you think.

Hey, this is verifiably false!

Still, the Disney characters are what makes up most of Kingdom Hearts' identity, and by extension, Sora's.

I take it you're never played Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Though I did not want to get into this, if I may, Mickey and & Donald and Mickey Mouse on the Game and Watch was at a time when Smash Bros., and Sakurai's rules for it did not really exist.

And yet it appeared in Brawl anyway, as you can see in the picture.

Plus, Sora appearing in other games, mostly Final Fantasy games here, is different from Smash Bros., which is a crossover event.

They're both crossover events.

I am sure the Final Fantasy games did not have to include everything from Kingdom Hearts to make Sora appear.

And the Smash Bros games don't have to include everything from Kingdom Hearts either. See my quoted response below.

Still, the Disney characters are what makes up most of Kingdom Hearts' identity, and by extension, Sora's. Thing is, if Disney characters were not added along with Sora, there would be some confusion, as in, "Where are the other characters from Kingdom Hearts/Donald/Goofy/Mickey?" It may work in some Final Fantasy games, but it would be much harder to do for a big gaming crossover like Smash, which is a celebration of gaming more than anything cartoon or western based like Disney. It's not impossible to do, but it would be much harder, as I said, compared to some Final Fantasy games.

I already addressed this.

They included Cloud without Tifa, Barrett, Sephiroth, and any FF 1-6 characters, they included Terry without Mai, they included Dragon Quest without the DQ3 and DQ4 heroines. They can include Sora without Disney content.

Another one of my past quotes below.

There are plenty of original characters and content in Kingdom Hearts that can make up enough content as is, the Disney stuff was always just a side part anyway. It's not like the Subspace Emissary where every character is essential to the story, the vast majority of Disney characters are just NPCs and minor background characters. Like others have said before, if Terry can be there without Mai, and Cloud can be there without Tifa, Barrett, Aerith, and Sephiroth, then Sora can most definitely be there alone, or with just Riku, Kairi, Roxas, etc.

 

[OffBi]

They included Cloud without Tifa, Barrett, Sephiroth, and any FF 1-6 characters, they included Terry without Mai, they included Dragon Quest without the DQ3 and DQ4 heroines. They can include Sora without Disney content.

The Disney content is completely different from the other ones that you mentioned. The FE is because of Square, Mai because of good boys and girls, and heroines because DQ8 and DQ11 heroines were completely nonexistent, so why include them.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The Disney content is completely different from the other ones that you mentioned. The FE is because of Square, Mai because of good boys and girls, and heroines because DQ8 and DQ11 heroines were completely nonexistent, so why include them.

And the Disney content can be excluded because of Disney. It's not different at all.

 

[OffBi]

And the Disney content can be excluded because of Disney. It's not different at all.

It's very, VERY different.