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Ghirahim
Want 60%
Chance 12%
I feel like Graham has the best chance of any new Zelda character other than maybe Tetra but I don't think we will get one.
Ghirahim was a somewhat memorable character from Skyward sword, but if we do get a Skyward Sword character, I want the Groose to be let loose.
Brain Age Stage
Want: 50%
Chance 30%
I think this has a decent shot, Brain age is an in-house Nintendo game, which seems to give it higher chances of getting stuff into Smash Bros. I could see them doing interesting things with it, but I can't say the concept thrills me.
I think Impa has the better chance given that she also plays a role in Skyward Sword and is also the most important character in Zelda left for newcomers given how she recurs a lot. Though we can't use 1-game only as an excuse given ( is debatable given that she's basically only here because Sakurai worked on Uprising).
Really don't care at all about Brain Age to rate it.
I think Impa has the better chance given that she also plays a role in Skyward Sword and is also the most important character in Zelda left for newcomers given how she recurs a lot. Though we can't use 1-game only as an excuse given ( is debatable given that she's basically only here because Sakurai worked on Uprising).
Really don't care at all about Brain Age to rate it.
Ghiriham:
Chance: 7%.
Want: 15%. I'll just quote what I said last time here:
Chance: I never thought he had a chance. He’s a villain we probably will never see in a Zelda game again…save for maybe Hyrule Warriors.
Want: I wouldn’t be opposed to see him playable in Hyrule Warriors, but for Smash...no. I can barely even remember the guy.
I'm slightly more fine with an inclusion after seeing him in HW...but still don't really want him, especially over regulars in the series.
Brain Age Stage:
Chance: 30% Why not.
Want: 80% One thing I look for in unreped, modern stages is if the series will be remembered 7 years from now. Electroplankton? Ha, not really. Pictochat? People remember the stage more then they do the actual app.
Brain Age has been around since the DS era and most likely is here to stay, so its a stage concept I'd be completely fine with. Sort of want it too, just as much as a Miiverse stage.
Ghirahim
Chance: 0%
I don't think Sakurai will be adding any more Zelda characters other than Ganondorf (or Ganon), but it wouldnt be a one off villain. It would probably by Impa.
Want: 0%
I don't really want him over the other potential Zelda reps.
Brain Age Stage
Chance 60%
With the 3DS having its own stages, this series has a good shot. It's aided by its strong international sales.
Want: 100%
The 100% is for my 100% dedication towards helping kids learn better. If we can trick them by playing a level in Smash, I'm all for it.
Bayonetta: 1.29%
Inkling: .59%
Nominations:
Shulk AT x15
(this should finish off my extra nominations)
He is a recent character from the most recent home console installment of one of Nintendo's most popular franchises, and Smash 4 already has Robin, Lucina, and Greninja. I think it could go either way at this point.
Want: 100%
Ghirahim would be one of the more unique additions to Smash Bros. If he were excluded, then I would feel furious! OUTRAGED! SICK WITH ANGER!
Not really. I would respect Sakurai's decision like any rational human being would.
Ghirahim
80% Chance
100% Want
I believe the trophy quiz theory, seeing as Rids is all but confirmed we are at 3/4, with only 1 left, Zelda. Ergo, a Zelda Newcomer is likely. Ghirahim brings more directly to the table then Impa, his main competition. Therefore, he is more likely.
Brain Age Stage
55% Chance
100% Want
WHAT?! 65?! ARE YOU CRAZY?!
HE'S NOT EVEN IMPORTANT TO THE SERIES! HE'S JUST THE FLAVOR OF THE MONTH! HIS POPULARITY IS TOO NEW! THEY'RE ARE WAY MORE ICONIC CHOICES!
Ahem. Let me explain.
Turn your heads to Mario and Pokemon, please.
Now lets take a good look at those series' newcomers...
Interesting...
It appears the other 2 of Nintendo's main series have received characters that are unimportant in the grand scheme of things...
They're also very new, and represent the most recent major installments of the series...
They've become extremely popular, but only recently.
And they both beat:
View attachment 12857
Toad and Meowth.
The next most iconic choices from the series. Looks like that doesn't matter as much as some of you think, eh?
So for the main 3,
in one corner we have the new "hot" characters in their time of fame, but aren't all that important:
And in the other, we have boring generic little characters that look unexciting for a fighting game, but are important and iconic:
SNORE.
Sakurai wanted to give Galaxy/3d World a character, even though we all called it unnecessary.
Sakurai wanted to give Pokemon X/Y a character, even though we all called it unnecessary.
So what else have we been calling unnecessary? Oh yeah, that's right. A Skyward Sword character.
We have our WWHD character, we have our OOT3D character, we have Twilight Princess designs.
It's time for a Skyward Sword character.
And he is incredibly popular. He's done the best out of any Zelda character on any Smash poll I've ever seen. And I see him pop up on Miiverse about... well I'd say he seems to be about #7-10 most requested on there.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ZnX9Z7Xf8glYI8m8fkCFI622q2InLTi-fLCDnhTsKhs/viewanalytics
A youtube poll that shows his popularity.
There's a new major, loved Zelda character in each prominent title.
-Sheik (OoT)
-Skull Kid (MM)
-Tetra (WW)
-Midna (TP)
-Ghirahim (SS)
These are the 5 that after the main 3, appear to the most popular among Zelda fans.
These are the characters that actually got developed, and were interesting. That's why they have fans.
You can even go check the SmashBoards poll to see that Ghirahim is the leader, followed by Tetra/Midna/Ganon, followed by Vaati, followed by Impa/TIngle.
In 1 game he's made a larger impact on the series than Tingle has in multiple appearances.
Ah, but then there are those who doubt a Zelda newcomer altogether.
Well, we've just rated Mewtwo as very likely, we're going to do the same for Jigglypuff.
Remember Brawl's data?
And the SSE late additions?
Toon Link was a last minute clone. They had 5 Mario characters and 5 Pokemon character, yet 3 Zelda characters, and this is most likely why we got last-minute clone Toon Link and data for Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik, Sakurai does want the main 3 equal.
All I have to say is...
A Mario newcomer was, for the most part, doubted. Many saw it as 50/50, but a lot just thought it was unlikely.
A Pokemon newcomer was considered pretty much a definite no because of Brawl + Mewtwo.
People would say there's no one as important as the main 4 Mario characters.
And there's no Pokemon nearly as prominent as Brawl+Mewtwo.
Look at what happened.
Also, the Zelda items don't hurt a Zelda Newcomers chances at all.
Why? Pokeballs.
Yep. So stop saying that.
I don't think the Fi trophy theory means much, but it exists too.
Want: 100%
I used to only somewhat want him before Midna was an assist, but now he has my full attention. Gimme.
Zelda's biggest mistake Tingle:
Chance: 5%
Honestly, he's not even as important as people make him out to be.
I know I just called him important and iconic, but let's review his appearances.
Majora's Mask (2000) : He sold you maps throughout the game. A bunch of maps. His dad was a Guide at the Swamp Tourist Center. And that's it.
Oracles of Ages (2001) : He floats in place the whole game in an hidden area. When you finally manage to get to him, he gives you 1 chart. And if you ever go back to him, which you probably didn't, he can expand your Seed Satchel. Seriously, that's it. It's basically just a cameo.
Wind Waker (2003) : You have to walk aimlessly around an island just to rescue him from a random jail cell, then he gives you the Tingle Tuner and a map, and later in the game gives Link a chart. This is his biggest appearance, yet he doesn't even crack the top 5 most important characters in the game. Link, Aryll, Tetra, KORL, Ganondorf. I could argue another 5 characters are even more important than Tingle in Wind Waker. The thing about Tingle is, he's never even close to being a main or vital character, has not been developed as a character, and does not have a canon moveset that can be translated to Smash Bros from Zelda games, but I'll keep going.
Four Swords Adventures: If you leave too many Force Gems around, he takes them. That's it.
Minish Cap (2004) : Pretty much every random NPC from the series so far showed up in this game. And you could fuse Kinstones with every one of these characters. So Tingle is one of those. Yep, pretty much just a cameo.
Appearances since Brawl-time.
Phantom Hourglass (2007) : He isn't actually in this game, there is a poster of him though.
Spirit Tracks (2009) : He isn't actually in this game, there is a statue of him though.
Skyward Sword (2011) : He isn't actually in this game, there is a doll of him in a hidden room though.
Huh. Looks like he hasn't appeared since 2004. Cool.
Yea, Nintendo sort of went Tingle-crazy for 5 years. But stopped. And he has been reduced to a recurring cameo.
Oh... the remake?
Yea, Wind Waker was re-made. That's why we have Toon Link.
Do you seriously think that a remake that didn't even do that well is enough to justify both a clone and an unpopular newcomer?
It's not.
Wind Waker got it's character. It's not like there is a separate toon side-series. It's part of the Zelda series.
Oh, the Tingle series. Forgot about that. How about we take a look at that.
So here's a look at Tingle's poorly-selling Japan-only series
Released in 2006. Cool. This is the only one that wasn't Japan-only. The first one. I wonder why?
Balloons just like Balloon Fight, eh? Not so unique when Villager already stole those. This released in 2007.
"Too Much Tingle Pack is a Tingle DSiWare app that was released exclusively in Japan on June 24, 2009. It includes several applications like a calculator, a little dancing Tingle image, a fortune teller, a timer, and a coin-flipping minigame. The game can be downloaded for 500 Nintendo Points. It is currently only available in Japan, as DSiWare is region-locked."
Wow. It's not even a game.
"Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love was released in Japan in August 2009, and has yet to see a European or American release. Similar to Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland, the game starts with an ordinary, 35-year-old man. While he watches a sales program on television, the man learns of a book that is deemed to make its readers popular amongst the ladies. He orders the book, but he gets sucked into the world of a picture book when he opens it and transforms into Tingle. He learns that the only way to get out of the book is to dance with the princess of this world, which is the main goal of the game. The game is a parody of the The Wizard of Oz, where Tingle meets three friends, Kakashi, the scarecrow, Buriki, the tin-woman, and Lion, the lion. Together, they follow the yellow-brick road, and advance from page to page. Unlike the previous installation of this series, this is a point-and-click game. This game was also developed by Vanpool using Nintendo's permission."
I swear. Whoever made this was high.
In his series, he collects women. And I heard it was called something like "too sexual" for a western release. I have no idea what this means, or it's considered this way, but I'm too scared to try any of these out. Or at least the one we actually got.
And not being shown as an assist means nothing. They didn't show every assist. That's why I didn't bump up my score for Isaac or Ray.
They didn't show that many.
Buuut... It's interesting that both Skull Kid and Midna are Zelda assists, but not Tingle...
MY TINGLE THEORY:
questions:
Why does Skull Kid not use the Moon? I thought he'd be a Snorlax clone, not a Palkia clone.
Why are there 2 Zelda assists that aren't Tingle? Where's Tingle?
Now that Jungle Japes is returning from Melee, what other Melee stages will return?
Now that Skull Kid is an assist, what other Majora's Mask content might we be getting?
All can be answerd with one thing.
Great Bay is returning from Melee.
That's why Skull Kid can't use the moon, it appears in the background of that stage.
That's why Tingle's not an assist, he appears on that stage.
Makes perfect sense to me. Majora's Mask was seriously under-represented in Melee and Brawl, and has just received a random popularity spike upwards do to the nasty Zelda cycle.
Want: 0%
Like most Zelda fans, I hate Tingle. He's my least favorite videogame character.
Predictions:
Tetra: 7%
3 Zeldas and 2 Links?
No.
However, she is the #2 most likely of the series still.
Toon Zelda: 3%
Same as above but worse cuz clone unable to transform into the actually important and loved version of the character.
Impa: 2%
Cuz Sheik.
She never stood a chance though.
She's recurring, like Tingle. But doesn't actually do anything, like Tingle.
She has no fanbase, however I do want her 80% if she were unique with gimmicky time-based magic.
1. Palutena - 95.23% chance LITTLE MAC - 88.11% chance
2. Pac-Man - 81.24% chance MEWTWO - 74.24% chance
3. Shulk - 69.73% chance
4. King K. Rool - 68.75% chance
5. Chrom - 68.72% chance
6. Mii - 55.70% chance
7. Dixie Kong - 49.04% chance
8.Takamaru - 46.06% chance
9. Isaac - 43.07% chance
10. Ridley - 33.02% chance
[collapse=Zelda chart] Ghirahim: 24% Impa: 8%
Tetra: 7.6% Ganon: 7% Vaati: 1.4% Toon Zelda: 0.01% Cia: 100%[/collapse] Ghirahim:
Chance: 24%
I think he's the 11th most likely character. I don't think he'll happen, but I do think he has the best chance out of any Zelda newcomer because he's the new "hot" character and is the most requested. He's pretty much the new Sheik. And is on par with Rosalina and Greninja for series importance, current prominence, and overall popularity.
Plus, I think he'd be the most unique of the choices left, except maybe Vaati- who I find to be the least likely of the viable Zelda candidates.
I wonder what his chances as DLC would be...
Want: 100%
Impa:
Chance: 8%
I think she's the 20th most likely character.
Hyrule Warriors doesn't help much. However, she looks to have a central role, possibly part of the plot, and not just 1 of 9 playable characters.
Despite being very recurring, she's not all that iconic or well-known. (or at least she wasn't before Hyrule Warriors)
Not requested, ever.
Doesn't do much in any game she's in (almost an exception- Skyward Sword, possibly an exception- Hyrule Warriors)
With Hyrule Warriors, she's now at 9 appearances out of... 17? That's pretty good compared to Ganon's 10, Tingle's 6, Tetra's 2, and Ghirahim's 1. Still not as notable as any of them though.
Want: 90%
Which is too bad. People need to finally give her the recognition she deserves. If she was as popular as Sheik she'd be a shoo-in. Maybe Hyrule Warriors will get her close to there. If it does DLC seems very possible.
-I agree with a lot of my old arguments still.
And I suddenly feel confident in a Zelda newcomer. I don't know if it's the Hyrule Warriors Hype, or the Fire Emblem reveals, but it makes so much sense to me right now.
And well, I have new arguments too.
Nintendo is definitely without a doubt pushing Skyward Sword (and Ghirahim), and spreading awareness of Ghirahim
HOW:
-Smash content
--items/ item designs
--character alts/color swaps
--Skyloft as a stage (any more?)
--music
--trophies
-Ghirahim's Theme
For some reason, this has been showing up everywhere lately.
EX: http://youtu.be/ghEhI4CJjAM (Play Nintnedo - Announcing Nintendo @E3 2014)
-And that's not the only official Nintendo video recently with Ghirahim/SS prominence
EX: http://youtu.be/NVVmWBHD2mY?t=5m23s (Nintendo Minute -- Kno' Yo' Nintnedo)
-And obviously, Hyrule Warriors.
Not only will Ghirahim be a villain, but he will also be playable along with Fi. As Skyward Sword will be one of the 3 games majorly represented in Hyrule Warriors. It also has it's DLC, stages, and items just like TP and OoT- 2 of the 3 games getting character representation in Smash.
I know TP didn't get a new character in Brawl, but it at least got the designs of the main trio. I mean, it had WW to compete with, which got a character and was planned potentially 3. Also, the roster was chosen for Brawl before TP was out so they would have had to pull a Greninja and base a choice off of design. It worked out well with Greninja, but who knows what could have happened if this type of selection had occured multiple times? Greninja was a lucky pick...
The difference now is that SS was not too late, but certain game was.
Now, I think Skyward Sword is deserving of a representative. And we already know we're not getting versions of the main 3 from SS so they still count as TP representation if anything
You can "one off" this and "never appear again" that but just look at our newcomers so far (and the rest of the Gematsu Leak- to those who believe it). Representing all of these new games, regardless of previous importance and what may come in the future. (Rosalina, Greninja, Palutena, Robin, Lucina)
And y'know what else they all have in common? They all had a stage from the game they represent revealed before they were confirmed.
Rosalina- Mario Galaxy
Greninja- that X and Y stage on the 3ds I can't rememeber the name of
Palutena- duh, Palutena's temple
Robin/Lucina- Arena Ferox
[Same goes for the rest of our 1st party characters not revealed on the day the game was revealed
Little Mac- Punch Out
Mii Fighters- Find Mii, Tomodachi Life]
You know what else they have in common (except Palutena)?
They aren't all that important, but they sure are popular.
Check the polls. They are. And Ghirahim definitely fits that group. He is important to the game he's in, just like everybody else here, but in the grand scheme of things... he isn't the MOST important...
And with the exception of Lucina (who is a special case and you should all know why by now)
They're all unique. And Ghirahim is the most unique Zelda contender along with Vaati (who I barely consider a contender for various reasons that are irrelevant on this day) at this point. You all see his uniqueness, right? Surely seeing him playable in HW reminded everybody of his abilites, which I will touch on a bit later.
Now, it seems very plausible we are getting a Skyward Sword character, right?
Well, when I think Skyward Sword characters, I immediately think of the title name referencing his sword, so basically, Fi. And her opposite, Ghirahim. But there is a character that had a less prominent role in the game, that's had multiple small roles- Impa. Impa is suddenly being considered a big contender, which she is now, but just like when she used to be, it's for the wrong reasons. Here is what I posted in the Ghirahim thread earlier explaining why there is no competition between Ghirahim and Impa: "Impa wasn't popular enough until Hyrule Warriors. I could see her have being planned to be a Sheik alt, makes as much sense as Lucina, and once she was confirmed for HW and all of this excitement over her started up, Sakurai might have thought "hey, Sheik is really popular competitively too, maybe I should give her the same treatment I gave Marth"
And then we have Impa as a Sheik clone getting the Lucina treatment.
And this has no affect on Ghirahim, as Sakurai has already said he doesn't care about "amount of reps per series" (I believe)
So either he was already added before her, or he's not in.
And of course the Sheik clone thing isn't 100% either, I see them both as major DLC candidates assuming there are ones."
Basically, Hyrule Warriors was too late to influence the initial roster of Smash. And nobody wanted Impa before she was revealed for Hyrule Warriors, except as a Sheik replacement. And still, that was very few. Only lately has she become popular, meaning that all she can be now is Sheik's Lucina or DLC. She really didn't have enough merits before Hyrule Warriors to be noticed by Sakurai. I wouldn't be saying this if our newcomer selection was of less popular recurring characters like Toad, Ganon, Anna, Waddle Dee, Meowth, Tingle, Cranky Kong, etc.
But that's not what we have.
But also, this also works the other way around, as FE got both a unique character and Lucina. So Ghirahim does not hurt the chances of clone Impa, and he does not care about series balance through characters. So if Mario just got Rosalina and Zelda got both Ghirahim and Impa, well that's fine by Sakurai.
(a lot of what I said here could be tied into the trophy theory but I'm not going to use that until I believe it, even though it is suspicious that Tiki's trophy had a song tied to Robin, who was originally THE Fire Emblem newcomer, and Pseudo Palutena was an obvious hint... and I'm pretty sure Kihunter had Ridley's theme, who I still believe will be playable, and Fi and Ghirahim are opposites, so they tie in together, I've also heard that his theme was tied into the Ballad but I'm not sure... it's intereseting but that's all I can say about it atm)
So whats holding him back?
Sakurai not having many trailers left. Although this doesn't hurt villains as much due to the possibility of a villain trailer.
But I don't want to become so certain about something anymore.
Takamaru's deconfirmation was like a slap in the face...
But I did realize something about Takamaru, he's a swordsman that mainly fights with projectiles and magic, and uses teleportation- he doesn't use his sword too often. Who else does that sound like? Ghirahim. Yea, maybe they were kind of competing... and I shouldn't have been pushing for both. Oh well, that's a very small increase for Ghirahim imo.
A few of my chance score now all gravitate towards 50% after that slap in the face from Takamaru's assist. The highest I'll rate a non-Gematsu character atm is Ridley at 51%
Chance: 49%
I'm feeling shaky on his chances, last time we rated I had almost given up, but Nintendo won't stop shoving Skyward Sword in my face, giving me hope.
Please don't get Takamaru's fate...
Want: 100%
Please...
The moveset potential is amazing.
He's a great, memorable villain.
We need more villains, and a Zelda newcomer, and a Skyward Sword character.
It would just be perfect, so I have to give it a perfect want score.
I'm not sure why Solo Sheik says hi in a post about Ghirahim, when she's a returning veteran that's been a character since Melee, who counts just as much as a character now as she always has in Sakurai's eyes, but you can tell her Ghirahim says hi back ;P I also have reasoning on why Ghirahim and Impa aren't in competition in my rating post, it's bolded so it's easy to find if you want to check it out.
Ghirahim:
Chance - 25%. Makes the most sense to me as a Zelda newcomer, but I don't know that we'll actually get a Zelda newcomer. And there's the trophy quiz theory; he's the most closely related to Fi.
Want - 100%. Has potential for a diverse moveset, not just sword(s) but magic and summoning abilities too. A villain, which we're lacking. Cool character design in general. Sakurai pls.
Brain Age stage:
Chance - 10%. Haven't heard much about Brain Age recently.
Want - 10%. Seems like it could get a bit too gimmicky for my liking.
Because I know you guys were waiting for me to arrive to rate Ghirahim, huh?
Demon Lord Ghirahim:
Chance: 50%.
Note: If you say or suggest my rating is biased, then I really don't care anymore, because frankly, for some people, me giving him a 5% would be considered bias on my part because I make it known I support this character. As such, I will not entertain that notion. My rating I'm giving is honestly higher than I feel like he deserves at this point.
Anyway, I think Ghirahim has the definite edge over the remaining competition. In fact, I would honestly say the most likely Zelda newcomer is a toss-up between Debbie and Tetra. Let's tally some quick pros for reference:
Ghirahim
+ Is popular + Has been featured in two recent games (Skyward Sword, Hyrule Warriors) + Has a lot of source material for a moveset - May not appear again
Tetra
+ Is popular + Recurring, has appeared in a recent game (Wind Waker HD) - Is technically another form of Zelda ? Has little source material for a moveset, but archetypal character so creating one is easier?
Say I'm lying by omission and roll your eyes if you want. Anyway, if these are true, Ghirahim has the edge.
So let's assume that if we get a Zelda newcomer, it's Ghirahim.
However, what are the chances of that?
That's the important number, and quite frankly, I don't think it's that high, especially without DLC. Zelda noticeably did not receive a proper newcomer in Brawl. All we got was Toon Link, who you could say was replacing the Young Link from Brawl.
So with that in mind, it's clear the priority for representing Zelda with characters was including the Triforce trio. And not to mention, one of those incredibly prominent characters is still a semi-clone of a completely unrelated character, something fans of Ganondorf and Zelda in general have been upset with for 12 years and counting.
Additionally, there's less than two months before this game is released. If almost every veteran comes back, we've already got a roster at around 48-ish characters (too lazy to count). Considering how every newcomer is likely accompanied by a trailer and revealed before release, and how Sakurai said they are almost done with the newcomers, leads me to believe we've got one or two trailers remaining.
There are a LOT more characters with priority over Ghirahim.
Shulk, Ridley, Isaac, King K Rool. All characters with more merit than ANY Zelda newcomer.
So, my final score for Ghirahim's chance, and a Zelda newcomer in general, is 50%. The 50% factors in the possibility of hidden newcomers and DLC newcomers.
Want: 1000000%.
I love Ghirahim. I've loved him ever since I joined this site. I love his design. I love his boss fight. I love his theme during the boss fights.
But most importantly, I think his charisma, moveset potential, I think is something that couldn't be brought to Smash Bros. by anyone else. So I would super thrilled if he was actually included. I don't care if he's a semi-clone of Sheik either. I just want the character.
That's it! Have a nice day!
Brain Age Stage: Chance: 25%. Tough call. It's a prominent DS game, that's for sure. However, it's not prominent anymore, which is fairly important. Plus, it might be hard to make work in a feasible manner. You can't have a stage too gimmicky, after all.
Want: 50%.Indifferent. I would like it if Pictochat from Brawl was moved to the 3DS version (like Green Hill), though.
Yeah finally we're rating two ideas that come from games I played :D
Ghirahim chances: 28 %
Characters like Lucas or Robin proven that being a one-shot character isn't a huge deal to become playable in Smash Bros. Also, given that Skyward Sword is the last console Zelda game, the only one released after Brawl, and that it's the first Zelda in the official chronology, a Skyward Sword rep isn't that unlikely. Ghirahim wouldn't be that irrelevant due to being a recurring character in that game, and he also has a somewhat important revelancy in The Legend of Zelda canon history: he wants to resurrect his master Demise, and eventually do it, but Demise is defeated and his hatred for Hylia is the reason why Ganon always reincarnate in Zelda games, due to Ganon being the reincarnation of Demise himself according to Hyrule Hystoria. For all those reasons, Ghirahim is nothing irrelevant IMO and would be a solid pick for a sixth Zelda rep, plus the moves he uses as a boss in Skyward Sword promise a good moveset potential.
The main argument against Ghirahim is the possibility of not getting a Zelda newcommer. Even though I absolutely hate to use the argument of « character slots » against a character from a specific franchise, it would be kinda weird to see both Zelda and Pokémon with more characters than Mario (assuming Mewtwo returns), or Zelda with more characters than both Mario and Pokémon (assuming Mewtwo doesn't return). But after all if Sakurai really wants to include Ghirahim as playable I'm sure that he wouldn't care that much after character slots after all, plus we already have a Mario newcomer. Even though Ghirahim's one-shot status doesn't mean that his chances a close to zero, that kinda prevents him to be considered as a shoo-in like widely speculated characters such as Shulk or Ridley.
About Hyrule Warriors, I don't exactly know how Ghirahim's chances are affected. Yes, Hyrule Warriors proves that Ghirahim isn't forgotten, but on the other hand, Hyrule Warriors is another all-star crossover (a game with The Legend of Zelda characters and Dynasty Warriors gameplay), and seing a new playable character in both games would be weird IMO. Actually Hyrule Warriors is the main reason why I feel that The Legend of Zelda series will not get a playable newcomer in SSB4. But the most likely situation is that Hyrule Warriors is completely irrelevant to SSB4 due to being a spin-off and releasing too late for Smash standards, so I'll just assume that HW doesn't affect Ghirahim's chances at all.
Ghirahim want: 48 %
He's a solid pick for a sixth Zelda rep and would be a cool addition with good moveset potential, but he's not a priority for me, I want Mewtwo and Isaac first. Also even though Ghirahim himself is kinda memorable as a character the game he comes from, Skyward Sword, wasn't exactly awesome compared to previous console Zelda games such as Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask or Twilight Princess in my opinion. Also if I can't play as Ghirahim in SSB4 I can just use him in Hyrule Warriors anyway.
Brain Age stage chances: 15 % and want: 0 %
With stages based on games like Nintendogs or Tomodachi life it looks like "casual" series, not represented by playable characters, get some representation as stages. For Brain Age... please no, I didn't enjoy this game and I don't know if a stage based on it could work without being too gimmicky.
Predictions:
Bayonetta: 3,68 %
Inkling: 1,22 %
Nominating:
Playable newcomer: Magikarp x4
Concept: non-Fire Emblem franchise with exactly four playable reps x1
Brain age stage: Okay let's get this one over and done with.
Chance: 15%
To be honest I'm really just not too sure but this rating seems reasonable enough for me.
Want: abstain
Fabulous DemonLordGhirahim: Chance: 60% *Ahem* okay, to start off let me say that I do not believe Ganondorf is in any way in jeopardy of being replaced by Ghirahim. Honestly, I think he’s going to be revealed on the Hyrule Warriors release.
With that aside, here’s my reasons for why I believe Ghirahim stands a very decent chance.
Though who’s to say Zelda will get another rep at all and why Ghirahim? Well To start off Zelda in general is getting a lot of representation (more on that in a bit) and since some other the fan favourites like (being Midna and Skull Kid) deconfirmed then that instantly gives Ghirahim an edge. The only character I think stands a shot other than Ghirahim is Impa but unfortunately she doesn’t seem too likely to me (if Hyrule Warriors came earlier it would be different). We’ve already seen that recency can is a big boost if Greninja, Rosalina or Robin are any indication. And since Ghirahim is the only person I think stands much of a chance from Skyward Sword he doesn’t have much competition. I’ll explain more on that more later.
Sakurai said “more than a few” items from Zelda will be from Skyward Sword. I’d take that as an indication to expect a lot. When else has Sakurai stated something like that before? And we’ve already seen this happening with the beetle and gust bellows. Heck, the Smash Run enemy octorok, the heart container and fairy bottle are the design’s from Skyward Sword. Link even gets an alt costume of his clothes in SS. So yeah, Zelda is getting a lot of representation and most of it is taken heavily from Skyward Sword. Now here's something that most people don’t really believe but personally, I think the trophy quiz theory is true. Psuedo Palutena was obviously teasing Palutena, Tiki was Robin and/or Lucina and since I think Ridley is in who was hinted with King-Kihunter then Fi must hint Ghirahim. I don’t see why people think Psuedo Palutena was hinting Palutena and Fi wasn’t for Ghirhim. Allow me to educate you.
Fi is sort of an anti-Ghirahim or Ghirahim is an anti-Fi. You can see it easier here
.
Basically, both of them are a spirit for a sword.
To be honest, I wouldn’t really believe in the Trophy Quiz theory if there wasn’t so much pointing towards a Zelda newcomer.
Now there's that Nintendo E3 video. Practically all the songs in that video was one of Ghirahim’s themes. What’s with that?
Also, notice that the Ballad of the Goddess remix that plays in the Skyloft stage has a bit of Ghirahim’s theme in it.
It’s a bit difficult to make out but it plays around 1:50.
Here’s Ghirahim’s theme that plays in Skyward Sword.
So yeah, he has a lot more going for him than any other Zelda rep.
And Lastly, he’s popular and has a wealth of potential. Just have a look at some of his cutscenes and battles. Hyrule Warriors even does a great job at showing how different he can be. He’s no generic swordsman.
Want: 100%
It probably shouldn't come as a surprise that he's my most wanted character.
I'm not sure why Solo Sheik says hi in a post about Ghirahim, when she's a returning veteran that's been a character since Melee, who counts just as much as a character now as she always has in Sakurai's eyes, but you can tell her Ghirahim says hi back ;P I also have reasoning on why Ghirahim and Impa aren't in competition in my rating post, it's bolded so it's easy to find if you want to check it out.
We might not get a Zelda newcomer, but if we get one it's Impa, Toon Zelda, Tetra or Ghriahim.
Ghirahim is frontrunnerish for the Zelda spot but hey that's just a theory a game theory thanks for watching it could just as well be none or Impa. Most preferably none
Want: 40%
Ehh it would be rather bitter if we get the Zelda newcomer that isn't in one of the games I played.
That said, his moveset would be cool, so that's something.
Final Smash: Dark Triforce Slash. Except Ghirahim is the sword and there's nobody to hold it.
Brain Age:
Chance: 15%
There's a chance.
Not a big one though.
Want: 100%
Just to scream the word Dr Kawashima doesn't like through the mic the whole time.
Want: Around 10%. Ghirahim is a bit too creepy for my liking, not to mention when he first appeared and stuck out his tongue at Link. *Shivers* He's a bit creepy, personally, but I am aware that he's quite a popular character. Can't say I've finished Skyward Sword, but the furthest I got was a little bit after the battle with The Imprisoned. Regardless, I'd say that if there is one thing, Ghirahim would make a bit more sense if he was a newcomer, cause that to me is a little bit more likely than Impa. (In my opinion, I think Sheik is the better choice, plus she is a veteran and a character of her own this time around.)
What I don't want is for him to be a replacement character for Ganondorf, but in the long run, I'd much prefer the King of Evil himself than Ghirahim.
Chance: I'm not sure, but I'd guess around 30%. If he does get confirmed, I'm sorry to say he might be my punching bag. My apologies to all future possible Ghirahim mains. If he turns out to be interesting, I might give him a go.
That's all from me today. I'm not interested in the Brain Training stage. I don't see how it would work.
Ghirahim:
Chance - 15%: I still think the trophy quiz thing was crafted in the dark depths of the Ridley thread as an elaborate straw grasp, especially because it occurred in the same direct as that shadow.
Want - 0%: He's not Tingle.
Brain Age Stage:
Chance - 40%
Want - Abstain: I don't care. Only stage I want/have ever wanted is PictoChat to be a past stage on the 3DS version.
Chance - 2.5% - I'd think Hyrule Warriors may have been a bit too late for the roster to be affected. Honestly, I'm still keeping my old score.
Want - 20% - As I shall repeat until the end of the game (boy, that's close), I would rather have a Toon Character rather than anyone else. Vaati or Tetra, take your pick.
Brain Age Stage
Chance - 20% - We've had weird stages before, but I'm not too certain this stage might even be possible What could even be used as platforms.
Want - 50% - I ... Uh... this is too weird for me to form an opinion on. An assist trophy, I'm all for but a stage? I have no words.
Predictions
Inkling - 0.34% - Way too new. Not many expect another Roy situation.
Bayonetta - 2.14% - Well, this should be interesting.
Chance: 5%
His only chance is if Ganon was cut, which is incredibly unlikely. I honestly doubt that the two of them could coexist in Smash. Ghirahim isn't too recent, but he doesn't have enough appearances to warrant the spot, we've already got a one-off Zelda character, and two would be too much. Yes he's in Hyrule Warriors, but that's a spin-off, games that Sakurai doesn't tend to look at very often, just look at how long it took to get a Paper Mario stage
Want: 0%
Never really been a fan of the "flavor of the month" characters in Smash. I get it with Pokemon, because there are no main characters other than Pikachu, and same with Fire Emblem, as there is always a large host of new characters in each game. I think 5 Zelda characters is enough, as it sits on par with (official) Mario representation, and most likely Pokemon, which are the three biggest Nintendo series
Brain Age Stage
Chance: 30%
What Wii Fit did for consoles, Brain Age did for handhelds. It drew in tons of consumers into the "health" genre of gaming. Brain Age is a big part of Nintendo history, and deserves some sort of representation. I'm not going to advocate for a playable Kawashima, but a stage seems like a good bet. The fact that it had a recent 3DS entry only helps it's cause. I personally have no clue what they'd do with it, but I never doubt Sakurai's creativity. They've shown a TON of stages so far, and I have to wonder just how many they will be able to cram into this game
Want: 20%
I was hooked on the original, but haven't played any thing from it since. It could be an interesting stage though, and I'd like to see what the do with it. Devil Kawashima stage boss?
Ghirahim
Chance: 10%
Still the same chance that I gave him before.
As I've mentioned on Agitha's day, I don't think that having a playable appearance in Hyrule Warriors doesn't help him at all. The Dynasty Warriors series tends to have overly large rosters and the franchise itself isn't that big. Coupled with the fact that Sakurai may have not known about this game before it debuted in December's Nintendo Direct makes me believe that Hyrule Warriors had no effect on Smash 4's development.
It's less of now and more of the future. Ghirahim might be a top contender if he continues to re-appear in future Zelda games, like the Wii U one. Want: 100%
Absolutely.
Brain Age Stage
Chance & Want: Abstain
Honestly, I don't really care.
Bayonetta Prediction: 1.48%
Promotion will save her, but that's it. Inkling Prediction: .13%
Want will definitely be high, but this is nearly impossible considering how new it is.
Well, I was called to action, but I've changed my tastes recently, unfortunately.
Ghirahim:
Chance: 20%
I really don't think a Zelda newcomer is happening at this point, or at least one who has an original moveset. I think Toon Zelda is more likely, but only because she can be an easy clone and she was considered before. At this point, I think Ghirahim is more likely to end up as an AT (however, it would certainly be a fabulousAT).
Want: 50%
Don't get me wrong: Ghirahim is one of my all-time favorite Zelda characters, and in my opinion, by far the best Zelda villain. His flamboyant personality is absolutely hilarious, and he somehow managed to pull off being a complete over-the-top diva and a creepy and intimidating figure at the same time. The main reason why my want score has dropped so low is because of one thing: Hyrule Warriors. The main reason why I supported Ghirahim in Smash before is because I saw this as my only chance to play as my favorite Zelda villain. Now, he has been confirmed as playable in Hyrule Warriors, and I think he fits better in that environment. At this point, I don't care if Ghirahim gets in or not, just as long as I get Dixie Kong and K. Rool first.
Ghirahim's Chances for landing a spot on the roster: 45 percent
Pros: High level of personality and memorability
Plenty of Moves gearing toward a strategic defensive play-style
Was in latest game and Hyrule Warriors and is now a known entity in the Zelda Universe; chances of appearing again
Cons: Chances of not appearing again
Sword/magic play-style already done with Robin
I think Ghirahim's chances boil down to Sakurai finding a theme or mechanic that really makes Ghirahim pop or he simply will not make the spot.
Okay. It's time to do this. I'd like everybody to note before I start that I just recently played my first Zelda game by using my Mario Kart 8 game on the Wind Waker HD. So if I get a few things wrong when talking about Zelda characters, give me the benefit of the doubt. Correct me, because I'd like to know, but don't be offended.
Ghirahim:
Even though I've never played Skyward Sword, I've seen lots of stuff on the internet about it, and even though I've heard some mixed opinions on the game as a whole, everyone seems to like Ghirahim. And even from just viewing some clips of him, I can see why. Sure, he's evil, no denying that, but there's a certain flair he has the just makes him interesting. Also, he has some really cool powers.
But, now I have to be negative, don't I? Ghirahim is from Skyward Sword, the latest installment of the Zelda series. And while for most other franchises, this would be a huge boost to his chances, this is Zelda, a franchise so timeless and grand that this rule has never really applied to it. We wanted Skull Kid when Majora's Mask was big. We wanted Vaati when Twilight Princess was big. And now we want Ghirahim now that Skyward Sword is big. But we didn't get Skull Kid. We didn't get Vaati. And I suspect we won't get Ghirahim.
Also, I hear the 1-game rule thrown out a lot, and I heard somebody else say that it's no longer relevant because of Robin and Lucina. But I feel like Fire Emblem has more of an excuse for this, because their entire cast changes almost every game. Marth was only in two Fire Emblem games, Ike was only in two Fire Emblem games, and Roy was in one (zero from when he was in Melee). Plus, I think since it's Awakening, it gets away with it to an extent, since Awakening is pretty much the magnum opus of the Fire Emblem series. And if you look at Skyward Sword, almost nobody tells me that Skyward Sword was the pinnacle of the Zelda series, no matter how much they told me they liked it. So, if they were to break their pattern and add in a character specifically from one game, I doubt they'd do it now for Ghirahim.
Also, I'd like to think that the Zelda series is great the way it is. We have the Triforce characters, Link, Zelda and Ganondorf (which, I'm 99.99% certain he'll be returning, whether or not he's gotten a moveset overhaul is unknown), we have Sheik, who represents the most popular game in the series as well as being a Smash veteran and competitive icon, and we have Toon Link, who is still Link, but also represents the Zelda games that feature his art style. We have the main Zelda cast, and anything else at this point would seem like unnecessary excess. It'll be weird to add a Skyward Sword rep for no reason other than to do it.
Let's see, what else before I finally give my scores? Hyrule Warriors is too recent for it to have made a difference. The trophy quiz thing could be for Ghirahim, or it could be just a theory, or maybe even for a new Ganondorf moveset, since it will act like a new character. If they're doing a villains trailer, they're probably putting Ganondorf in it, and two Zelda villains in one trailer that would also include other people seems weird. I think that's it. Let's do scores.
Chance: 5%
Want: 20%
Alright, everyone. Thanks for coming. Grab a toy in the gift shop on your way out.
...
What's that? A whole other thing to talk about? Fine. I'll do this quick.
Brain Age:
Chance: abstain
Never thought of the idea. Don't know how to rate it's chances.
Want: 50%
I really like Brain Age, but it sounds like it'd be quite a wacky stage, and I honestly don't care much about it.
5 more nominations onto Sonic 3DS stage (Not Green Hill Zone). I'm getting close, folks.
Note:
Y'know what just occurred to me. I said earlier that the first Zelda game I played was Wind Waker HD. I said I never played Ace Attorney. I spent the past few days saying, "never played it, abstain chance no want". I recently decided I finally had to shell out some money so I could play Mega Man 2 for the first time (in a playable form anyway, the iOS port is god-awful). I never played Xenoblade, or a Metroid game, or anything by Square Enix. I didn't finish Fire Emblem Awakening.
I need to play some video games.
Before you commence your shopping spree, remember Smash is coming soon ... wouldn't want to buy a bunch of games to then spend hour upon hour playing Smash instead.
Also, play Earthbound, Mother 3, Kid Icarus Uprising, Rhythm Heaven, Pikmin 3, Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze, The Mysterious Murasame Castle and Fire Emblem (Rekka no Ken) while you're at it. You know, in case you haven't played those xD
My ratings
Ghirahim
Chance - 6%
I want a lot of villains now, and with time constraints and less character slots, I prioritize a lot of other newcomer villains as more important that fabulous here.
Ridley, K. Rool, Porky, and Hades being the ones I definitely would want to see before any series gets two villains. Also wouldn't mind Black Shadow. Or heck, Wii Fat Trainer. Huh, I guess I really don't see Ghirahim as much of a priority anymore.
Want - 50%
Eh. He'd be ok I guess, my want for him has dropped considerably over time. Not as enthused about another Zelda rep, and if one happens I'd love for it to be Tetra. But really, I'd be ok just with a revamped ganondorf and no Zelda newcomer.
Brain [st]Age
Chance - 15%
idk how to rate stages. It could happen, this series was big for the DS.
Want - 0%
Probably wouldn't play it much, even if tournament viable. Why fight here instead of on a stage like Arena Ferox that has kickass music? Idk, I guess I don't care for it much.
Predictions
Bayonetta - 2.3%
One of those newcomer expectations I simply just do NOT understand
Inkling - 1.2%
Way too recent
Brain Stage Chance: 80% Highly likely to happen even if Dr. Kawashima isn't playable. We already have a Nintendogs stage for the 3DS, I'd be pretty surprised if we didn't have one for Brain Age as franchise representation seems to be taken much more seriously in this installment. The series is a very popular series, and for people who say the series is not prominent anymore, we still have Concentration Training as one the recent installments that came out 2 years ago. Overall very likely to happen.
Ghirahim Chance: 15% The same as last time, I'm just going to say regarding Hyrule Warriors is that it's too recent and even if Hyrule Warriors content were in the game, it makes every Zelda character look important in the game, meaning it would increase Ruto's, Lana's, and Agitha's chances to be playable in the game, it really doesn't affect Ghirahim's chances at all. Ghirahim is probably going to end up being an AT like Skull Kid and Midna.
Brain Age: 70%
Given KI:U's reference to it I think it's very much fair game, it was a big deal for DS, and it was the first virtual consolde DS game... Heck, it given out free on Wii U virtual console in Europe, so I think it' safe to say it's still well in Nintendo's mind... the only issue is just how much competition there is for stages, but even then I think this comes pretty far up the pyramid.
Want: 50%
It wouldn't hype me, but it'd be cool to see, and the good doctor as a Boss would be amazing.
Ghirahim: 53.5%
And the main event... I previously dismissed him, but now, against myself, I'm actually thinking he's more likely than not.
I do think the Trophy quiz relates to something, but I can't rule out that it's a change to Ganondorf's move set (which I think is pretty 50/50 to happen, but would probably not be built up this way), or that it's Impa... And nor can I rule out that it wasn't relating to newcomers at all... So looking at that I'll say 60% it's got meaning and like 90% of that is Ghirahim...
54%
But this seemed way too high when I got there, so I tried another method of going through my thoughts.
So let's look at things another way... What about the trailer...? I 'now fairly certain we're getting a Villains trailer (80%), it just seems odd how many significant villains (Meta-Knight, Ganon, Wolf, Mewtwo, arguably Wario even) are left either as veterans or highly requested newcomers that I think are likely (Ridley, Bowser Jr, Black Shadow etc.)... so he would fit there... but he competes with Ganondorf for the Zelda slot in that trailer (similarly to how Wario and Jr are competing for that slot). I would normally say Ganondorf is the clear victor in that match up, but with Hyrule Warriors coming up so soon he could be revealed before then... and has a decent shot of it in fact, though this depends on if he's been changed or not imo.
I think 50% that Ganondorf has been changed and 90% that his changed moveset would not been revealed as a PotD for Hyrule Warriors. I also think there's a 20% chance of him being held back for the villains trailer even with his old moveset. That leaves only a 45% chance of him appearing in a PotD then in my mind... but that's still pretty decent. 55% chance he'll be unrevealed whenever the villains trailer happens, but since that seems most likely for the pre-release Smash Direct rather than the general August (Gamescom?) direct or a loose trailer there's a decent shot he'll be shown in the middle of that somewhere; say a third? There are a bunch of other veterans to show, but he's likely changed in this case.
This leaves only 37% chance of him being available for the Villains trailer, and I think Zelda would get a showing (90%)... As these are unrelated it's simple subtraction this time so 90-37= Ghirahim's chances....
53%
Heck even when I think that I have Bowser Jr at 80% and Jiggs+Mewtwo+Sceptile at ~40% Zelda seems really wanting of a character... especially given all the love it's been getting recently...
With two (three?) paths of logic getting me to such close answers I feel that I can't refute it... but I'm not sure I've quite grasped that I think Ghirahim is likely yet...
Want: 10%
I guess he'd be okay, but he seems to be a one shot, and I'm not a fan...
God-dammit why is he probably in?!
Bayonetta: 1.11%
Platinum are making an Xbone exclusive, and the Korra game they're working on is coming to everythhing but Wii U... that means they're not second party which was her main saving grace in getting into the game... some people will rate her far higher, but honestly she's not big enough to cut it as a 3rd party.
Inkling: 1.23%
I think some people will be quite generous, but there'll be a lot of zeros...
Playing Dragon Quest IV on my phone during commutes has gotten me excited again, sorry Wii Fit Meter, I'll try and finish you off later... Also I have unused noms, brilliant!
Want - 20% - As I shall repeat until the end of the game (boy, that's close), I would rather have a Toon Character rather than anyone else. Vaati or Tetra, take your pick.
Pros
+ Ghirahim theme playing in E3 preview
+ Most wanted Zelda character in Japan
+ Unique
+ abundance of Skyward Sword representation in Sm4sh
+ Trophy Quiz
Cons
- Sakarui saying he only has a few trailers left: I'm certain Shulk and a Rhythm Heaven character are both in this game and are likely to each get a trailer, and I don't know if that leaves room for Ghirahim.
- Sakurai comments on Chrom and how he wants to avoid another boring swordsman: Ghirahim would be anything but a boring swordsman, but regardless I think we've reached our quota on swords users.
- Zelda having a lot of characters already
- Ghirahim not being a recurring character
As for want, I love every inch of him and I'd be absolutely delighted to play as him.
Brain Age Stage- 75%
Want- 55%
Hugely successful series in terms of sales. I doubt a stage would be passed up given the inclusion of Wii Fit Trainer and a Nintendogs stage. I never played the games, but I guess a stage based on them would be interesting. I do hate stages that have a lot going on, though.
Bayonetta- 1.2%
Inkling- 1.2%
Theater Stage x10
@Groose
, on the day we rate this, could you change the title of the thread to include Paper Mario, e.g.: Rate Their Chances Day 299: The Theater Stage (Paper Mario) and other thing
The reason I'm making this request is because I know there are Paper Mario fans here that normally don't stop by this thread, but might if they see we are rating a Paper Mario stage.
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