Ranking moves in Characters (Round 21: Discussing Down-Special)

[Funbot28]

Ok here is the preliminary list for Jabs:

Spoiler: Jabs

Discuss!

 

[Wintermelon43]

Ok here is the preliminary list for Jabs:

Spoiler: Jabs

Discuss!

*Sees Jigglypuff and Villager's spot*

Thank god this is the first version.

Jigglypuff's jab isn't bad at all dude. Jab 1 combos into other moves such as dash attack, and it isn't really flawed either; both hits properly connect, its frame data is fine, etc. The only big problem is horrible range really.

This entire list is pretty bad though....... like pretty much every other list on here, but I won't comment on them, I'm waiting for when we make a list for all of them and then I'll list my problems with all of them.

 

[Fenny]

Something to note about Bayonetta's jab: It has bullet arts which are part of the move. It's something to consider.

That aspect of jab also happens to be outclassed by bullet arts dtilt, which does twice the damage in one sitting.

The quick 20% is nice but in hindsight, when her most basic combos do more damage than that anyway that's kind of meh by her standards. Not to mention the other function of a jab, as a quick get off me/combo starter option, is filled to perfection by Witch Twist. Her jab is pretty much outdone by almost all her tilts and specials.

 

[arbustopachon]

If Robin's jab is A tier then get the Zard on that tier. Zard's jab has similar range but is safer due to lower endlag. If we compare Fafs Zard has 23/26/34 vs Robin's 32/35/36/41. This makes Zard's jabs much better for mixups and jab resets. Robin jabs do have more active frames tho.

Zard's jab3 has similar kill power to robin's gentleman, also zards's jab combo deals 1% extra damage.

Finally Robin needs to have charges left on his tomes in order to finish his jab combo, and his jab enders expend his tomes charges. Zard's jab combo does not reduce his ability to recover.

Also i think falcon could go up and villager down.

 

[TheColorfulOrca]

-> C or D tier, for reasons previously explained.
-> B Tier, for reasons also previously explained.
-> D or F tier, for reasons yet again previously explained.

-> C or B tier. I have no idea why the most useful or Palutena's grounded moves is sitting in D Tier. It is a good jab. The first hit acts as a safe poke, and also combos into a grab or dash attack. It is essential for Palutena's ground game, filling the role of her tilts (FTilt). While the rapid jab may not be too special, the utility of the first hit alone should move it up at least a tier.

-> C Tier. It's one of those "rapid jab only" type of jabs, which is unfortunate, since having a gentleman jab would help him a lot. The rapid jab, while boasting quite a bit of knockback, is incredibly easy to get out of before the final hit lands. It's not especially fast either. It's not really that good of a jab.

-> B Tier. Yes, it is quite slow on start-up, but the fact that it can reliable deal up to 20% cannot be ignored. It's also one of the hardest jabs to SDI out of, making it even better. It can even be reliably cancelled into DTilt, FTilt, or WTw after the first three hits. It's a jab deserving of B Tier.

Also, why is so high? I don't know a whole lot about the jab, but it seems like a slightly better version of Peach's jab, which is C Tier. I think it could be moved down a bit.

 

[Fenny]

Villager's jab is a kill confirm, that's why.

Jab to axe kills. If you DI out and jump away, he can also Uair you. If you DI out and end up air dodging into the ground, axe or fsmash. It's also really safe on shield because it's disjointed, fast and he can continue it for as long as he pleases.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Don't move Bayo or Zelda. Palutena probably just squeaks into C. Samus might squeak into D tier at best, the second hit being useless so often keeps it down.

 

[kendikong]

Zard should be in A with Bowser (Bowser has more range, but zard's comes out much faster). Zard's jab is his best move in his entire moveset. It is just overall extremely solid in speed, power, and range. I have won many matches with good players by doing nothing but jab out of shield.

Although it doesn't true combo into anything, jab 2 can lead into an usmash or an up B finisher.

And one more thing. At low percents, jab 3 can lead into a 50/50 combo into fair. And jab 3 sends the opponent is such a perfect position that even if they air dodge, they land in front of zard with landing lag, allowing zard to reset another jab combo.

EDIT: On another note, Jigg and palutena's jabs are too low. Both of their Jab 1's lead into grab with a high success rate.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Move Zard's Jab to S. This thing is far too fast and safe for the range it has to warrant anything lower. Being able to mix it up with grab and dash grab is just icing.

 

[Ffamran]

I should learn how to make short, but detailed explanations of stuff... Falco's jab should be in F-tier. The only things good about jab 1 and jab 2's frontal coverage, rapid jab being able to cancel at the ledge which is a situational, but nice thing, and that jab 1 is frame 2. Everything else about it, mostly its connection issues stemming from possibly its high transition frame and probably rapid jab's currently unknown frame data outside of its pitiful 0.4% damage, but also its high recovery on jab 1, 19 frames, jab 2, 23 frames, and rapid jab finisher, 34 frames, makes it one of the worst jabs in the game as it effectively becomes a hit confirm for almost every character to punish if not outright KO him and any from floaties to fast fallers can jump out of his rapid jab and rapid jab finisher.

Samus's should be in D-tier at least, but I would like to argue it's a C-tier jab or rather "Ftilt". Samus's jab isn't a "good jab" in terms of being able to combo into itself or having high knockback if it was just a single hit, single input jab, but more of a good poke helped by Samus being tall, its fast startup, 3 frames, and low recovery, 14 frames. If anything, her jab is more like a real life boxer's jab than a Smash jab and it's more like a "weaker, but faster Ftilt" while her Ftilt is a "stronger, but slower jab".

Lucario's, assuming his reliably connects even with its short hitbox, low damage, slow startup, whatever, would still be a better jab than Falco's since it does one thing almost all jabs do outside of Samus's because of how they designed hers, how they intended hers to work, and that's connect. Falco's fails to do that in its key moments. Particularly, jab 2 to rapid jab and rapid jab to its finisher not the mention rapid jab itself dropping people. Lucario's should automatically be D-tier just because of that despite being slower and having lower total damage compared to Falco's minimum number of hits, but it still would have something over Falco's: reliability. Also, with Aura, I'm going to assume Lucario's jab is going to do more damage, so... yeah. Falco's jab should be F-tier by itself with Lucario being in D-tier.

Other things: why is Luigi's jab not in B-tier with his brother (and Doc)? It's basically the same jab... It's actually better since Luigi's has slightly lower recovery, has higher set knockback, and in total damage, Luigi is going to do 10% to Mario's 8%. Luigi can reliably jab 1 to grab for a mixup and even with his nerfed, post-patch D-throw, Luigi can do still do some major damage with his throw. The only thing his brother has over his jab is that Mario can use jab to reset while Luigi can't and that's probably because of the higher hit angles on Luigi's.

With Cloud -- compared to Ike, I don't see it as special and more like Shulk's meh jab --, (Dr.) Mario, PAC-MAN, and Sonic being in B-tier and them having kind of run of the mill jabs -- I don't really see what so special about theirs --, shouldn't Greninja, the Pits, Sheik, and even Peach be in B-tier then? Or would it make more sense for them, the ones in B-tier, to drop down? Also, ZSS's jab's only noteworthy thing that I know of is that it's frame 1. That's pretty much it; it doesn't have a lot of range, it doesn't have low recovery -- jab 1 has 20 frames, jab 2 has 23, and jab 3 has 28 frames of recovery --, it doesn't have Little Mac's recoilless property, it doesn't do a lot of damage -- 1.5% + 1.5% + 3% for a measly 6% when most jabs do ~9% --, or anything else. ZSS's jab starting out high and linear are considered problems for her since ZSS is tall and her jab can whiff on certain characters mostly if they're crouching. Then again, problems for many other characters who don't have arcing jabs. Anyway, the only reason I see ZSS's jab being so high up is solely because of its 1 frame startup, but that's not enough. That alone without anything else special like Little Mac's being recoilless, Pikachu's being transcendent if I remember correctly, or something like Lucina and Marth's ability to mixup with a Side Smash for a KO doesn't speak to me as an amazing A-tier jab, but an average C-tier jab that happens to be frame 1.

Finally, I would like to advocate for Fox's jab being A-tier. It's one of the best rapid jabs in the game. It's not the ultimate, clearly S-tier jab lock machine it was pre-1.1.0, but 1.1.0 made it a much better rapid jab. It's fast, it links well, and the finisher connects quickly. The only other rapid jabs that come to mind as being as good would be Bayonetta, Corrin?, Duck Hunt, Mewtwo, Mr. G&W, Palutena, Robin, Rosalina, maybe Sheik, and Triple D, but that's just rapid jab, a part of many jab combos.

 

[Yonder]

I agree with Ffamran , Luigi's jab is definitely B tier material. Probably a spot above Mario's for the reasons mentioned by him. Also, Luigi can still pull jab to up b on the unsuspecting player, and of course jab to grab. The jab is one of Luigi's fastest ground moves, if not the fastest and consists of a lot of my damage racking on the ground that's not from a grab. C tier is criminal.

 

[HoSmash4]

Jabs all being underrated

 

[Goombo]

This is the third time now someone mentions Sheiks jab as underrated. Isn't it commonly seen as a really bad move? What exactly is good about it?


Clouds jab could probably move down. It has absolutely zero mixup potential and isn't special in any other way.

Greninja on the other hand has a lot of nice mixup possibilities after both jab 1 and 2. Belongs into B Tier in my opinion.

 

[ARGHETH]

This is the third time now someone mentions Sheiks jab as underrated. Isn't it commonly seen as a really bad move? What exactly is good about it?

Frame 2 and jab 1 and 2 both have a FAF of 18, which lets it lead into a whole bunch of stuff. Rapid jab's bad, though. B tier at least.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I approve of Lucario's position in F because I struggle to think of something just as bad. Samus should be D. A jab that is only effective under specific scenarios is a bad jab indeed. It can also miss low targets which is relevant for jab locking. God bless any samus trying to jab a Pikachu or kirby that just landed near her. I also think Villager is too high because Jab 1 to Axe is exclusive to fast fallers at kill percents. Others can shield or double jump. Plus it misses if your jab connected at max range, and a whiffed axe leads to a massive punish. Still a fantastic jab both for him and comparatively. I also might drop Mario to C. Its sakurai angle means it pushes targets rather than knocking them up for a mixup into tilts, grabs, etc. Luigi and Doc have an upward angle while also dealing more damage than Mario does. So all that's left for Mario is its frame 2 startup, and I like the standard set for frame 2 jabs being at least C tier by default.

Also robins jab1 and 2 endlag are kinda on the slow side for frame 4 jabs. Jab1 has 24 frames of endlag and jab2 has 26.

Just want to point out that Robin's 24 is actually among the highest for jab 1s. He's tied for third with Cloud. Assuming endlag as calculated after the last active hit frame on the jab 1, there's Lucario, Palutena, and Peach at 25. And Dedede is king at 26 (his jab 2 is safer but still takes way too long to come out). I guess Metaknight is technically the worst, but he lacks a jab 1 at all, and it's immediately prevalent how bad that is.

Robin's ability to kill with jab is frankly amazing and unmatched by other jabs, but the problem is getting them to connect at those high percents. His jab 1 and 2 both have knockback growth, and assuming you're not a fast faller or heavy weight, you can sometimes escape wind jab's finisher with no inputs. That's absurd. And you can't delay wind jab after jab 2 to alleviate the issue. And fast fallers unsurprisingly can escape with upward DI and double jumping. And if Robin has rage, forget it. Fire jab has a better hitbox that you pretty explicitly need to be a floaty to escape with DI, and it has about as much killing power as Levin Fair when both are used at a ledge (levin Fair has a more upward launch angle).

Zard should be in A with Bowser (Bowser has more range, but zard's comes out much faster). Zard's jab is his best move in his entire moveset. It is just overall extremely solid in speed, power, and range. I have won many matches with good players by doing nothing but jab out of shield.

Although it doesn't true combo into anything, jab 2 can lead into an usmash or an up B finisher.

And one more thing. At low percents, jab 3 can lead into a 50/50 combo into fair. And jab 3 sends the opponent is such a perfect position that even if they air dodge, they land in front of zard with landing lag, allowing zard to reset another jab combo.

Zard's jab does not compare to Bowser's range, endlag, or setups. With Bowser, the only 50/50s are dependent on matchups and whether you hit them with the farthest hitbox. And even then, you have to have explicitly studied Bowser's jab to have any odds of escaping without luck. Plus if Bowser finishes the jab combo when blocked, he can continue to jab mindlessly and catch block punishes even when poorly spaced. Literally the only thing better about Zard is 3 less startup, yet is still slower to come out than a dodge. That's the appeal with frame 1 and 2 jabs, they're as fast or faster than your dodge options and can turn around a pressure scenario while being less committal.

-> C or B tier. I have no idea why the most useful or Palutena's grounded moves is sitting in D Tier. It is a good jab. The first hit acts as a safe poke, and also combos into a grab or dash attack. It is essential for Palutena's ground game, filling the role of her tilts (FTilt). While the rapid jab may not be too special, the utility of the first hit alone should move it up at least a tier.

It's really not consistent. Most jab to grabs from her land due to lack of MU knowledge. If you're a fast faller or heavy weight, mash jab. If you're a mid to lightweight, mash double jump. Knockback scaling and rage can rarely change up the possibilities making them choose a bad option, but that's it. And it's not a safe poke, it ties for the second most endlag of any jab 1 with Peach and Lucario, and it's one of the slowest jabs to boot making her vulnerable on startup. Zelda's is a safe poke once you get past the vulnerability on startup.

 

[kendikong]

Zard's jab does not compare to Bowser's range, endlag, or setups. With Bowser, the only 50/50s are dependent on matchups and whether you hit them with the farthest hitbox. And even then, you have to have explicitly studied Bowser's jab to have any odds of escaping without luck. Plus if Bowser finishes the jab combo when blocked, he can continue to jab mindlessly and catch block punishes even when poorly spaced. Literally the only thing better about Zard is 3 less startup, yet is still slower to come out than a dodge. That's the appeal with frame 1 and 2 jabs, they're as fast or faster than your dodge options and can turn around a pressure scenario while being less committal.

The 3 frame difference is huge. There are many times I'm playing as Bowser and I'm fighting a fast and safe character like Greninja, Shiek, or Fox and I'd wish he had a faster jab like Zard that would of hit those characters when Bowser's jab wouldn't.

 

[Flamegeyser]

I think Mario and Luigi should be in A tier, and Falcon in S.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Trying to find a justification for Ike, Pac Man, and Cloud in B. All of them are frame 4 jabs with no potential for mixups that I've seen or heard of. Cloud in particular has some of the most endlag of any character on jab 1 making it very unsafe, but all three have repeatable jabs by holding the button

The 3 frame difference is huge. There are many times I'm playing as Bowser and I'm fighting a fast and safe character like Greninja, Shiek, or Fox and I'd wish he had a faster jab like Zard that would of hit those characters when Bowser's jab wouldn't.

So then...? It deserves the same spot as Bowser because it has a small fraction of what Bowser has but comes out three frames faster? I don't see the argument. Bowser's as high as he is because it's the most threatening to get hit with while being fantastic for low commitment poking. Any Bowser main will tell you that landing jabs on a speedy character isn't abnormal, it reaches so far that they tend to run into it as they expect some kind of lag from the previous jab.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Trying to find a justification for Ike, Pac Man, and Cloud in B. All of them are frame 4 jabs with no potential for mixups that I've seen or heard of. Cloud in particular has some of the most endlag of any character on jab 1 making it very unsafe, but all three have repeatable jabs by holding the button

As I said in my bit, Ike can mix up the timing a fair bit between his jabs + combat walk allows him to use his jab to apply more pressure than the standard jab can. Higher side of jab damage range, Jab 3 stuffs attempts to jump out of a delayed Jab 2 -> Jab 3

-shrugs- Its bottom of B/Top of C area.

 

[arbustopachon]

I dunno if Zard's jab should be A or B. But Robin's should be right next to him, wether that means dropping Robin to B or sending Zard up. Also throwing support for Samus and Luigi.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Eh, still think Zelda's jab can scratch B, Kirby's is......ok I guess, Peachs is....not good, like I am hesitant to say it should maybe be lower, but I guess it's fine.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Sheik's jab is an amazing move, its just not the best move in her entire set. Once again, stop saying that something is good just because its "one of the best moves for them". That doesn't make it good, it makes the character bad

Her jab is frame 2, jab 2 can confirm into a grab and can be used in mixups for ftil/dtilt. Her rapid jab is also very reliable and safe most of the time. The same thing applies to Fox's jab

 

[Litany]

I think ZSS' jab is too high. While it is frame 1, many characters have frame 2 jabs that offer much more reward (such a Ryu, who can confirm into Shoryuken). Her jab only does 6%, and doesn't have any special properties other than its speed, which even then is a marginal difference compared to others'.

Also, Wario's jab should be D-tier IMO. It starts up on frame 8 (which is slower than Ganondorf's jab by one frame) and is not really useful with Wario's kit, due to not leading into anything and his D-tilt being faster (frame 5). Unlike other slow jabs such as Bowser or Ganondorf's, it doesn't have any special attributes.

Luigi's jab should be moved up to B-tier, similarly to Mario and Doc. They generally share the same attributes, and Luigi gets more reward off of jab cancelling than the other two (for the most part).

Ganondorf's jab is good where it is. It's a bit slow at frame 7 startup, but it's safe on shield if sweetspotted and has good range (very slightly shorter than his D-tilt). When used more like a glorified tilt, it's actually one of his most useful moves.

Samus' jab should be D-tier. Similarly to Ganondorf's, is more of a poking tool. However, Samus' jab is disadvanageous frame wise at lower percents and deals less damage, but can lead into followups at higher percents and has faster startup.

 

[kendikong]

So then...? It deserves the same spot as Bowser because it has a small fraction of what Bowser has but comes out three frames faster? I don't see the argument. Bowser's as high as he is because it's the most threatening to get hit with while being fantastic for low commitment poking. Any Bowser main will tell you that landing jabs on a speedy character isn't abnormal, it reaches so far that they tend to run into it as they expect some kind of lag from the previous jab.

You're clearly underestimating what a 3 frame difference makes. I think you're comparing them too directly without any consideration to their startup. Bowser's is great as a poke and spacing move, but Zard's is a much better OoS option. They both have similar damage, but Zard's is faster at the cost of some range and slightly more endlag (Zard's can also spam jab on shield and characters tend to run into the 2nd jab combo). That's the tradeoff for faster startup.

Believe what you want about which is better, but I will make a point that Zard's jab is at least better than all the ones in B tier.

 

[Vyrnx]

Samus's is weird, It doesn't connect at sub 45%, but usually Samus's low percent combo game means the opponent is rarely there. It's still a flaw. As soon as jab starts comboing, there's an inescapable jab-jab-CS combo where regardless of where the opponent techs, they get hit. Jab 1 is frame 3, unusually fast for a heavy, and also some of the best range and lowest FAF of any jab 1. Past 45% it's a good get off me move and at high percents, jab 1 will force a tech chase with CS. The jab combo when it works also does 11%. Falling uair to jab 1 to fsmash is a true kill combo, and there are weird jab 1 mixups like jab 1 to dtilt / fsmash / grab. I would say C tier, better than several jabs in this game, but not amazing. If it connected sub 45 I would nominate it for B tier or maybe A. But alas...

Captain Falcon's is S tier and probably the best jab in the game. Fast, never whiffs, always connects, does solid damage, covers the ledge extremely well, low FAFs on all the first two setup jabs (which gives it a lot of mixups), kills at 150ish around the ledge, the rapid jab is active on tons of frames as opposed to other rapid jabs.

The only one up there with it is Mac's, which could potentially be better but not certainly. Another really great thing about Mac's jab is that if jab 1 clanks, the rapid jab will continue on through.

oh lol and luigi C-->S/A Freaking amazing jab. Fox's to A easily as well, could also be S--the former best jab in the game is still amazing. Villager's is not S or better than Luigi/Falcon/Fox/Yoshi/etc.

Yoshi's jab is also super good. Range, frame 3, very low FAFs on both kicks, puts them right in front of Yoshi and can force techs, and jab 1 combos into usmash, can mixup into other stuff like dtilt or another jab 1 because of its low FAF. Probably A tier

Oilmar's is also fast/solid, and combos into grab at almost every percent

Bowser Jr's from B to... F... Unbelievably awful move... Massive FAFs except on jab 1, terrible crappy awful rapid jab... It's an awful move and holds back Jr. so much.

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit's Jab seems pretty B-tier to me... Probably be C if it were restricted to the Rapid Jab, lol.

If we're talking solely about start-up then yeah it's not very good at f5 but it's plenty useful besides that. 9% total off a quite large f5 move, no spacing required, is pretty respectable. Sometimes there's connection issues but either Jab 1 links into the third hit or you can stagger the attacks so it's not a big deal. Smashes and grabs can be used as mixups for 15-20%, and they do a good job covering different options. Simply going from Jab 1/2 back to 1 is effective as well.

Main thing though, relative to Marth's namely, which is similar, is that it's wonderful out of a walk. Pit's walk isn't trash like Marth's, and the first move allows you to slide. (Note that in order to get a useful effect you need to hold forwards and press an attack stick diagonally, easy tech.) So you can walk at somebody, Jab 1 and then Jab 2 to cover a lot of space with a basically non-committal option with good damage to boot. Since Jab 2 halts momentum it's easy to space if necessary. Also note that any slidey tech is compatible with the move, including the recently discovered step dash. Actually there's the potential that it can true combo into Usmash from a step dash, though take it with some salt because I literally haven't labbed it at all yet.

Also I don't think ZSS's is that good since start-up is literally the only thing going for it. Past that, the damage is meh, endlag is meh, range is meh, and I believe it has linking issues. I'll gladly take my f5 Jab, thank you very much...

 

[Nemesis561]

Bowser jrs jab def needs to be lower... Its hot garbage the opponent always falls out of it leaving jr vulnerable... Its awful and only has the rapid jab function

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yoshi and Peach both have extremely good jabs. Very solid one-two hits with pretty good range for its little startup time and great frame data through and through - not a lot of startup lag, pretty low ending lag as well and both characters' jab 1 have good mixup potential.

Both are A-Tier jabs.

 

[Flamegeyser]

I think ZSS' is fine, since it makes landing with a hitbox (AKA nair, zair, or fair) even more dangerous since you have to either wait out a jab or not get the punish.

 

[Vyrnx]

ZSS's isn't S tier, but the fact that it's frame one is really, really important and does make a huge difference. Also just the sheer number of mixups Nairo and Marss get off of it... Jab one also combos into up b. If it were below A tier, it would be odd.

 

[TheSausXL]

It's also good to note that C.Falcon, Fox, and Little Mac have the ability to throw out a continuous hitbox with their jabs by holding the button. This allows them to neutralize a lot of projectiles as well as some approach options in addition to applying excellent ledge pressure. Best 3 jabs in the game arguably.

Edit: Add ZSS to the list. Her jab also moves her forward quite a bit, so jabbing on shield almost always results in a cross up. She does, however, lack a multi hit and the ability to cancel other moves from her jab reliably.

Edit 2: Wow there's actually quite a few who can do this that I didn't realize. Ryu and Cloud can do this too. You have to spam the button with Ryu tough, and it can confirm into Shoryuken. Cloud's isn't too useful.

 

[TalTal The Eighth]

Ness' jab should be a bit lower. It can jab reset and has decent startup, but it's pretty bad outside of that.

 

[Ffamran]

Hopefully not too late, but here's rapid jab frame data for the discussion. Kind of a long explanation of where I got it: http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-...ive-impressions.429826/page-595#post-21389906. Just thank A_Kae is all I can say; I just converted hex numbers into decimal from the raw data dump A_Kae gave me.

Spoiler: Smash 4 Rapid Jab Frame Data

Character|Damage|Angle|BKB|SKB|KBG|Hit Lag|SDI
|0.3%|8° / 172°|0|7|100|x1.0|x0.6
|2%|74° / 92°|20|0|20|x1.0|x0.8
|1%|85° / 75° / 90°|15 / 15 / 8|0|50 / 50 / 30|x0.3|x0.7
|0.9%|361° / 94°|8|0|40|x1.0|x1.0
/|0.8%|25° / 120°|0|18 / 4|100|x0.8|x1.0
|0.5%|60°|0|4|100|x1.0|x0.7
|0.8%|66° / 85° / 270°|0|22 / 9 / 6|100|x1.0|x0.4
|0.4%|30° / 50° / 70°|0|3|100|x1.0|x1.2
|0.7%|60° / 85° / 78°|18 / 14 / 20|0|20|x1.0|x0.4
|1%|361°|8|0|40|x1.0|x1.1
|1%|20° / 20° / 68°|0|60 / 20 / 2|100|x1.0|x1.0
|1%|55° / 68° / 80°|0|6 / 4 / 2|100|x1.0|x1.0
|0.7%|86° / 361° / 361°|0|0|50|x1.0|x0.8
Giga |2%|86° / 361° / 361°|0|0|50|x1.0|x0.8
|1.2%|60° / 84°|8|0|30|x1.0|x0.6
|1%|70° / 89°|14|0|30|x1.0|x1.0
|1%|75°|0|10|100|x1.0|x1.0
|1%|74° / 40°|0|5 / 10|100|x0.5|x1.0
|0.8%|60° / 110°|10|0|20|x1.2|x1.0
|1%|80°|14|0|30|x1.0|x0.8
|1.7%|74°|0|20|100|x1.0|x0.8
& Luma|1.2%|50°|15|0|100|x1.0|x1.0
|0.8%|50° / 60° / 70°|14|0|20|x1.0|x1.0

 

[Routa]

Jabs, eh?

Like mah boi said Swordspider's Jab is very similiar to that of a Link's. You can D-tilt between jabs along with dash grabbing. Ofc they aren't 100% true, but majority of the time they will work. The reward from doing full jab combo is eh overall so you are better off with using that D-tilt/grab in between the hits. Overall I find the B tier being the right tier for it.

As for Brawler's... First 2 hits deal decent damage and can be followed up with grab combo (if you choose to grab after 1st/2nd hit). You can jab1 -> jab1 if the opponent isn't prepared for it. D-tilt and U-tilt also work decently between the jabs. If you are really into mixups you can throw UU between the jabs. It is far from true, but in the heat of the battle people make mistakes. Reward from multihit is eh once again so you are better off with not using the finisher. Overall A/B tier jab.

 

[Sabre the Manectric]

I don't want to suggest any ranking, but I want clarification on why ZSS' is A tier.

 

[Esquire]

: This is also probably high B-rank. Jab is Frame 2, giving Brawler the second fastest jab in the game behind Mac and ZSS. Stuffs out a lot and is an excellent defense option against grabs. Jab 1 and Jab 2 are excellent cancels that can lead to various mix-up follow-ups, including a grab, DTilt, Jab 1 again, and Ultimate Uppercut (if guessed correctly). It would probably be high A if it wasn't for the fact that Brawler's rapid jab is pretty bland and can be SDI'd out of quite easily. High A for normal jabs, C for rapid jabs, so high B seem about right.

 

[ARGHETH]

I don't want to suggest any ranking, but I want clarification on why ZSS' is A tier.

Frame 1 Jab.

 

[MistressRemilia]

in C Tier? Is this some kind of joke? That jab's insanely good.

Okay so, Luigi's Jab 1 is Frame 2 with FAF of 19 and Jab 2 is Frame 3 with the same FAF. This data is definitly among the best in jabs & this is illustrated by Luigi's insane Jab 1 & 2 conversions. Luigi's ability to effectively cover many options, and how the lack of a fast reaction may lead into the infamously dangerous Jab 1/Jab 12 into UpB that will kill at dumb %. Similarly to this at low%, Jab Grab is fairly reliable as well, offering the same kind of insane reward. Luigi's jab most likely has the best conversions out there

 

[Pazx]

Luigi's jab is a contender for best in the game. Ultra fast, crazy mixup potential, also does pretty decent damage and the full combo pushes his opponent away CONSISTENTLY (eg. no multijab shenanigans) and gets him out of tricky situations for free.

Ryu's jab is also very good, as far as jab 1 goes he might have the best in the entire game as it's frame 2, FAF 16. That's considerably better better than all of Yoshi/Sheik/Luigi/Falcon/ZSS/Little Mac in one aspect or another, usually both, and we can't forget that it is a TSRK confirm as well. His heavy jab has some utility as well, it wouldn't be the greatest jab in on it's own but it makes for a good anti-air (I believe the leg is intangible?) and can kill near the ledge at higher percentages.

Fox's jab is also pretty underrated in the current list, same with Sheik, Samus and maybe Palutena. WFT's burial alone should be enough to move her up. ROB also has some mixup potential with his jab, but it's not an excellent move. Robin, Pac, Cloud, Ness, Zelda all look too high.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Doc's jab is better than Mario's for a lot of reasons. It's basically a worse Luigi jab which isn't bad. Connects consistently but unlike Mario, Doc's has WBKB and better angle in general so it allows for mixups at a bevy of %s including low %. Jab1 > Jab2 > Grab or Jab1 > Grab for instance work much better with Doc than they do with Mario. The only thing worse is the FAF but the better angle, higher damage, and greater mixup potential kind of alleviate this issue.