Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar should both be banned

[Grim Tuesday]

Yeah, mostly 3 with a little bit of 2.

I don't want Mario Bros legal necessarily, but I find it interesting that it can actually be argued to be legit and not fall under any ban criteria lawl

 

[Kantrip]

What is ban criteria? Arbitrary, right? A case-by-case basis is always better, in my opinion. Justify things as they are, and don't try to shove them into criteria.

 

[Pony]

Really? I mean.... REALLY???
For starters: Glidetoss, timed z-drops, timed reflectors (some chars), Airdodge-cancel toss, and items manipulation/position. Just the first ones to jump on the top of my mind.

calm your caps.
yeah, i meant mario bros. exclusive AT's.

it sounds like you're pushing for items to be legalized lol

 

[-LzR-]

I never found duelist fun at all. It was a really cool idea, but it's not really fun. What's actually fun is doing it with 2v2 Ganon teams where you have to upB each other to keep yourself alive

 

[Ghostbone]

calm your caps.
yeah, i meant mario bros. exclusive AT's.

it sounds like you're pushing for items to be legalized lol

Well, no stage has exclusive ATs as far as I know (PS2? Brinstar? I dunno), but Mario Bros. certainly utilises all the item ATs in unique ways, plus all the stuff you can do with the items is really interesting.

Also Duelist is amazing.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The only problem with items is that they can spawn at any time, anywhere.
Other than that, they offer a lot of gameplay changes that makes it actually pretty balanced.

I'm not trying to legalize neither items or Mario Bros, I'm just poking the hole in your argument.

 

[Akaku94]

Pretty sure Mario Bros. items start at the top and move down, just like in the original game... but I haven't played there in over a year, so I'm a little fuzzy...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The only problem with items is that they can spawn at any time, anywhere.

Wrong.

The first item will appear from either the top left or top right pipe 10 seconds after the match has started.

After that point, they appear in 5 second intervals from one of the top pipes.

If an item is thrown off-stage or disappears, a new one will spawn at the top pipes to take it's place almost immediately (within 5 seconds).

Their movement paths are also 100% predictable. The only random thing about the items is which pipe the come out of (top left or top right) and which hazard it is (Shellcreeper or Sidestepper). Both of those are easy to react to before the item even develops a hitbox.

 

[Akaku94]

^See^

Nothing overcentralizing/overbearingly random about the stage; the reason for banning is that it requires a completely different (and much shallower) set of skill.

 

[Life]

Grim, he's referring to general items not the Mario Bros stuff

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Oh.

Carry on, carry on, nothing to see here.

 

[infiniteV115]

I appreciate that the discussion in this thread is NOT about Brinstar/RC being banned.

 

[Pony]

I appreciate that the discussion in this thread is NOT about Brinstar/RC being banned.

i appreciate your contribution to the brinstar/RC being banned discussion. (telling people that they aren't talking about it)

 

[Ghostbone]

i appreciate your contribution to the brinstar/RC being banned discussion. (telling people that they aren't talking about it)

Cause you're totally contributing as well.

Spoiler

irony

 

[Akaku94]

...
...
...

So Brinstar's lava is completely predictable and avoidable...

(Failed Attempt to get conversation back on topic)

 

[Ghostbone]

Eh, it has a pattern, but it can be off by 10-15 seconds, and the level the lava rises to is random between a small distance.

 

[John12346]

Well, aside from that, keep in mind the whole screen shakes as a warning that the acid's going to rise.

You still can't tell how high it's going to end up rising, but it's something.

 

[Ghostbone]

Well, aside from that, keep in mind the whole screen shakes as a warning that the acid's going to rise.

You still can't tell how high it's going to end up rising, but it's something.

Mmm, the level it rises too doesn't really effect me, since I can just float, and if it rises above the middle platforms I can just stall it out, if not, it doesn't take long to get back down, but with other characters, it's the difference between having to try to get to the upper platform or not, but meh.

 

[-LzR-]

I think the fact it cannot be predicted how high the lava rises is the best argument against the stage.
At least you have plenty of time to prepare for it and start competing for the platforms and you know that the lava ha to completely lower itself before it can rise again.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I think you might be able to tell where the lava will go, although I could be wrong and won't deny there could be evidence against this that I haven't looked at.
Why take away stages like these from characters like G&W? I'm personally not going to read through the 67 previous pages, but surely someone has brought up the fact that MK isn't the only character who is good on these stages and CPs them.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't have anything against the stage and I go with the way of thinking that everything is legal until proven broken. MK did prove it broken, but he is soooo gone.

Also I haven't been able to tell how far the lava riser. If you can it would be too hard to tell the difference anyways.

 

[Ghostbone]

The level it rises to can vary, you can test this yourself if you want.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

That sounds like work =/
Maybe I'll fool around on it some, I think the speed of the acid can indicate where it's going, the squirming of that gross thing in the background could help (doubtful), and I believe there are auditory cues. I guess I'll try to take a look at all of this and do my best to prove these wrong. Null hypothesis = no cues

 

[Loxo]

Well, in my opinion now that Meta Knight is being banned there might not be a reason for banning Brinstar but I'm not sure about rainbow cruise, how come every moving stage is banned except for this one?

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Well, in my opinion now that Meta Knight is being banned there might not be a reason for banning Brinstar but I'm not sure about rainbow cruise, how come every moving stage is banned except for this one?

I would suppose it's something to do with the fact that Rumble Falls has random speedsups, and is vertical, punishing characters with poor vertical mobility badly, Mushroomy Kingdom has walkoffs and many walls appearing and disappearing, while Big Blue goes at too fast a pace for most people to manage(though I think this reason for BB isn't very good, but hey. that's me) and the possibility of camping the platforms and in general stalling because of that.

Rainbow Cruise is just less "vicious" on characters with poor mobility is my guess.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Rumble Falls and Big Blue both promote stalling, Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 just has a ******** design that messes with combat, Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 is fine and should be legal.

 

[Loxo]

Well, now that I think about it I thought of this: Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1: Near inescapable pits once you fall into one. Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2: Brick Roof makes it easy to prolong the match.Rumble Falls: Rainbow Spikes. Big Blue: Extremely punishing track though Bunny eared Sonic can run on it with no problem.

 

[Ghostbone]

Well, now that I think about it I thought of this: Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1: Near inescapable pits once you fall into one. Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2: Brick Roof makes it easy to prolong the match.Rumble Falls: Rainbow Spikes. Big Blue: Extremely punishing track though Bunny eared Sonic can run on it with no problem.

None of these are why the stages are banned.
MK 1-1: Constant walk-offs and walls.
MK 1-2: Same thing, plus 0% kills at the top
Rumble Falls: The speed up, and the choke point.
Big Blue: Circle Camping and broken platform camping.

 

[Sephy95]

I find Brinstar very nostalgic. Wouldn't want it banned even if it ment MK ****-age.