• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Radical's Radical Kingmaker { ASSASSINS WIN SOME RADICAL TIMES }

SlickWylde

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
2,846
3DS FC
1349-5237-9158
Intersting analysis. What do you make of those who do have her as their strongest town-read? I find it funny because you say nothing has caught your attention/nothing you can remember, but quite a few people have said the opposite (Mainly being Myself/Gheb/Zalak to name a few)

Her opinions to me stand out more than over half the player list so I would also like to know who does stand out to you in knowing their reads.
Well, then it appears I have not done my homework. Unfortunately my mind and spirit are impaired at the moment from ingesting an alcoholic beverage (several, actually), so I will re-read and re-evaluate my opinion on her tomorrow. I didn't realize anyone else had strong opinions on her. I must have skipped over something.

As far as my other reads, I will wait to post till I reassess the situation.

Goodnight, friends. (and frenemies)
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
Intersting analysis. What do you make of those who do have her as their strongest town-read? I find it funny because you say nothing has caught your attention/nothing you can remember, but quite a few people have said the opposite (Mainly being Myself/Gheb/Zalak to name a few
Ftr, I never actually called Sang a town read. All I said about her at some point was that despite her low post count I had a better grasp at where her head was at than what some of the people who had posted more than her at that point were thinking. For all it's worth, neither do I still believe that to be the case anymore nor do or did I ever have an explicit town read on her.

When I talked with Gheb about Generic, I was actually more concerned with the way Gheb was defending him than the fact that he was defending him. I didn't like the way he used to word "argument" to describe Maven and my interaction, and I felt like he was saying because Maven wasn't an easy target because he was "winning the argument", when IMO, it was a pretty good opportunity for scum to jump in and accuse Maven of strawmaning.
You're still nit-picking to an almost unbelievable extent. You have a problem with how I used the word "argument"? Seriously? You made a proposition, Maven called you out on it and then Generic built a case on it. And somehow the fact that I chose the word "argument" to describe that exchange is problematic now and links me to Generic? I don't see why anybody would buy that.

You keep mentioning that Maven was "strawmaning" over and over ... have you not realized by now that you're the only one to make that argument? Nobody else sees it that way. Nobody - n.o.b.o.d.y. - in this game except you [and maybe Generic? Dunno if he still thinks so] has talked about or even acknowledged that Maven has "strawmaned" anything.

Also, remind me again - if Maven wa actually strawmaning something and Generic rightfully - as you would say - called it out, how come Generic is the one you want executed and Maven seems to not be an issue to you at all right now?

It just doesn't add up at all.

:059:
 

SlickWylde

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
2,846
3DS FC
1349-5237-9158
i will list all of my reasons... ranked from most significant to least significant.

1. After our first interaction, he left me with the feeling that he may have been intentionally twisting my words. It felt kinda forced, and I don't think Maven actually expected me to suggest not discussing the players at all. I know he thinks I'm a scum player with at least a fair amount of talent, so I dunno, I just don't feel like he'd actually think that was the meaning of my words. When you first read it, did you interpret my plan as meaning "we shouldn't discuss the players at all"? This could just be my bad wording, and that's the main reason I'm not going after Maven right now.

2. His only big push is against Generic, someone who wanted to get Maven lynched. I don't expect a tremendous amount of content from the players early on, but Maven hasn't posted a reads list either. He doesn't seem that focused on scum-hunting.

3. his town slip looked like it was more likely to be a fake town slip, just because the scum team is called the ASSASSINS, and assassins do a lot of killing. This one is #3 on the significance list for a reason though.

Reading over that again though, I did find something troubling by GENERIC...


generic is among the people to like this post by maven, but....

he later uses the same post to call maven out on strawmaning

This is the post that raised my cackles the most for Zalak. I don't appreciate arguments where people use "likes" as evidence. In my opinion, it's not only a flimsy argument, but also confusing, because there are a plethora of reasons why this could have happened. He could have changed his mind, like you have- (several times).

#HBC | J #HBC | J Your current thoughts elude me. Can you give me a short synopsis on your top three scum reads.

I hate doing this, but after re-reading the thread, I've amended my thoughts on some players.

I initially had Spak as my second scum pick, but I no longer find him very suspicious. I'm thinking one of the three of Maven/Generic/Gheb is scum, but I don't think 2/3 of them are.

My initial impression of Sang not posting anything significant was blatantly incorrect, I will read better in the future. She has posted several great posts. I have gone through and given likes to people who I believe contributed to the conversation. A "like" doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the entire post, but I appreciate the fact that it moves this along.

SangfroidWarrior SangfroidWarrior I've heard your thoughts on specific individuals, (I believe you have a scum read on Maven?) but can you give a synopsis of your top two or three scum choices?

Spak Spak If Zalak turns out to be innocent, who would be your next choice?
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
This is the post that raised my cackles the most for Zalak. I don't appreciate arguments where people use "likes" as evidence. In my opinion, it's not only a flimsy argument, but also confusing, because there are a plethora of reasons why this could have happened. He could have changed his mind, like you have- (several times).

#HBC | J #HBC | J Your current thoughts elude me. Can you give me a short synopsis on your top three scum reads.

I hate doing this, but after re-reading the thread, I've amended my thoughts on some players.

I initially had Spak as my second scum pick, but I no longer find him very suspicious. I'm thinking one of the three of Maven/Generic/Gheb is scum, but I don't think 2/3 of them are.

My initial impression of Sang not posting anything significant was blatantly incorrect, I will read better in the future. She has posted several great posts. I have gone through and given likes to people who I believe contributed to the conversation. A "like" doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the entire post, but I appreciate the fact that it moves this along.

SangfroidWarrior SangfroidWarrior I've heard your thoughts on specific individuals, (I believe you have a scum read on Maven?) but can you give a synopsis of your top two or three scum choices?

Spak Spak If Zalak turns out to be innocent, who would be your next choice?
Next choice at this point would be Maven, but I'm fairly sure Zalak is scum.

Execute: Zalak

R RadicalRat We have entered Twilight.
 

SangfroidWarrior

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
370
Location
Maryland
Spak, we had a few more days!!! I haven't been able to post just yet but I'm catching up now. How long do we have for Twilight?
 

RadicalRat

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
423
Twilight lasts until I post a satisfyingly flavorful flip.

Probably a few hours.

Everyone, Zalak included, is allowed to speak at this point.
 

SangfroidWarrior

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
370
Location
Maryland
I thought it had been changed to Sunday because of Slick coming in. Also, I didn't know we were allowed to post during Twilight. Some games don't allow it, and it's been a while since I've played so I wasn't sure if things had changed.
 

RadicalRat

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
423
I thought it had been changed to Sunday because of Slick coming in. Also, I didn't know we were allowed to post during Twilight. Some games don't allow it, and it's been a while since I've played so I wasn't sure if things had changed.
For our purposes, consider Twilight the gathering of the Town to watch the public execution of Zalak. You may mingle and converse, while Zalak is also free to shout from his chopping block.
 

Kaladin

Stormblessed
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
1,167
Location
Earth
NNID
Toobu_me
I have a few minutes, if someone wants to give me a summary of whats going on I can probably start playing, or at least post a bit now.

Why was Zalak killed?
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Oh, didn't catch that. Can we extend Twilight to the end of Sunday so we effectively have the time back?
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
That's not how it works haha. Your execution is like a hammer. The damage is done and we will live with the consequences.

Also >mfw generic starts posting AFTER execution is done and before Sunday.
 

RadicalRat

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
423
Oh, didn't catch that. Can we extend Twilight to the end of Sunday so we effectively have the time back?
No.

With the execution already decided, giving the full deadline would serve little purpose but idle chatter.

You have until I post the flip in two or three hours.
 

Kaladin

Stormblessed
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
1,167
Location
Earth
NNID
Toobu_me
That's not how it works haha. Your execution is like a hammer. The damage is done and we will live with the consequences.

Also >mfw generic starts posting AFTER execution is done and before Sunday.
Yeah, I noticed that. I almost didn't post because of how bad it would look, but there was a computer malfunction at school today, meaning I have less homework than expected.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
I immensely want to punch your slot into Oblivion.

Not you as a person, but your slot because you know why.
 

Kaladin

Stormblessed
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
1,167
Location
Earth
NNID
Toobu_me
Soo... I'm gonna start reading, but if anyone wants to hear stuff from me ask directly and specifically, please.
 

SlickWylde

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
2,846
3DS FC
1349-5237-9158
I have a few minutes, if someone wants to give me a summary of whats going on I can probably start playing, or at least post a bit now.

Why was Zalak killed?
While he did seem like the most popular choice, Spak decided to kill Zalak somewhat suddenly, to the surprise of all.

If Zalak flips innocent, how does that shape our opinion of Spak? Confused, scared townie? Or opportunistic scum?

Spak seems like an intelligent person to me. If he were scum, and knew that Zalak was not, would he risk his reputation by suddenly killing him, knowing all eyes would be on him? (I've seen people do that on purpose as a defense).

General consensus?
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
I'm surprised but not surprised on Sparky's action.

Don't know if he derped to the pressure or decided to just lynch Zalak just cuz.

I think he would have not realized deadline either way but just executing Zalak without much from his own slot is what troubles me.
 

Kaladin

Stormblessed
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
1,167
Location
Earth
NNID
Toobu_me
While he did seem like the most popular choice, Spak decided to kill Zalak somewhat suddenly, to the surprise of all.

If Zalak flips innocent, how does that shape our opinion of Spak? Confused, scared townie? Or opportunistic scum?

Spak seems like an intelligent person to me. If he were scum, and knew that Zalak was not, would he risk his reputation by suddenly killing him, knowing all eyes would be on him? (I've seen people do that on purpose as a defense).

General consensus?
My overall opinion of Spak will form after I've read, but if Zalak flips town Spak would have to be pretty stupid scum if it was as abrupt an execution as you say.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
It wasn't abrupt but the timing ... could've been better to say the least.

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
Obviously I'm fine with the decision too ... it's just the circumstances that makes me question a number of things.

If he were scum, and knew that Zalak was not, would he risk his reputation by suddenly killing him, knowing all eyes would be on him?
That's kind of a stupid question tbh.

:059:
 

Maven89

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
3,830
Location
decisive games
Guess we could have waited for more from Sang, but I didn't see Spak being willing to really give more, and SlickWylde is basically saying the group consensus, which since he replaced in is null until some new stuff happens. I don't really feel there's that much more discussion to be had, especially since Generic claimed before he wasn't going to be here till Sunday. Though him suddenly popping up is..odd.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
I think he would have not realized deadline either way but just executing Zalak without much from his own slot is what troubles me.
I was a bit rushed and still thought the deadline was tonight and since I am going to be out tonight, I wanted to make sure that I didn't forget to post an execution.
 

SlickWylde

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
2,846
3DS FC
1349-5237-9158
Obviously I'm fine with the decision too ... it's just the circumstances that makes me question a number of things.



That's kind of a stupid question tbh.

:059:
I began writing an argument against you, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized you're right. It's not something that can be proved, and the answer is completely intangible.

I didn't see any real discussion happening, except for people posting their approval (which pretty much everybody approved of, and if he is scum, his partner isn't going to say "I disapprove!") which I didn't see much need for.

I'm more than interested to hear your thoughts on what we should be discussing at the moment.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
Guess we could have waited for more from Sang, but I didn't see Spak being willing to really give more, and SlickWylde is basically saying the group consensus, which since he replaced in is null until some new stuff happens. I don't really feel there's that much more discussion to be had, especially since Generic claimed before he wasn't going to be here till Sunday. Though him suddenly popping up is..odd.
Sang and Orbo should've been given a chance to speak up.

:059:
 

Zalak

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
1,632
Location
Washington
NNID
Zalak123
You keep mentioning that Maven was "strawmaning" over and over ... have you not realized by now that you're the only one to make that argument? Nobody else sees it that way. Nobody - n.o.b.o.d.y. - in this game except you [and maybe Generic? Dunno if he still thinks so] has talked about or even acknowledged that Maven has "strawmaned" anything.

Also, remind me again - if Maven wa actually strawmaning something and Generic rightfully - as you would say - called it out, how come Generic is the one you want executed and Maven seems to not be an issue to you at all right now?

It just doesn't add up at all.
Gheb is twisting my words!

I still haven't made a finalized stance on Maven's strawmaning. I said it was my knee jerk reaction that he was strawmaning, but upon closer inspection, I could have just worded my ideas poorly.
 

SangfroidWarrior

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
370
Location
Maryland
Sorry for my extended absence. I had a lot of work I had to do and hadn't been able to check the thread as often as I had wanted. I should (keyword: should) be able to begin posting more after today because I have a few days of break and then a slightly easier week ahead.

I guess I'll just start with where my head's at in terms of the game and then respond to other people's questions. I had to skim a bit, so my advanced apologies for that, but I'm mostly caught up. Also, I had already begun formulating this when Spak made the execution notice, but I will keep everything in (mostly because I already wrote it and don't want to erase time I spent lol).

Since my last post, I think I've changed my mind on Zalak. I had him previously as a more or less null read, but his further actions have made me question him more to the extent that I feel he is more likely to be scum than townie. I'm unable to separate, in my own head, if this is because I actually do think that he is actually scummy or if the comments that others have made regarding his posts make me see them in a scummier light. I am inclined to lean more toward the former.

I'm not sure if this is still relevant, but I would like to clarify regarding the J/Zalak discussion of my views. While I did not explicitly say that I am fine with Maven's lynch, J is correct in his assumption. I would not be upset if Maven were lynched toDay because I believe he has said and done things that come across as scummy to me (moreso than Zalak's posts have, IMO), and that his flip would be able to give us a good sense of where to go toMorrow. But, I didn't have everybody on that list in my can-be-lnyched pool. Specifically, I was not, at the time, comfortable with a Zalak lynch (that has since changed).

I agree with whomever said this (I believe J?) in that I'm worried about Spak and his insistence on either being on the sidelines or generally not inputting too much and/or pushing for reads. Coupled with executing Zalak early (which may have just been an honest mistake, but idk right now), his comfort in following the town's desire seems off, to me. I want to see more from him D2.

SlickWylde SlickWylde Does this answer your question? I think he should still be looked at, but not only because of executing Zalak early.

Depending on Zalak's flip, I may want to look into Maven more. The uneasy feeling I have with his slot is just getting worse and worse. Specifically, I remember being very confused about why he decided to answer a question with another question and being vague. There's just this hodgepodge mass of Zalak/Maven/Generic that can't be separated in my head toDay.

In terms of my town reads, I am more or less comfortable with J (this makes me uneasy for the same reasons he has stated of me; he's scary, and has played me like a fiddle way too many times for me to be entirely comfortable). With Slick's current play I have a slight-town read (although I'm keeping him at a distance because of my previous read of his slot), and a leaning town read of Spak (which might change upon a reread and his actions toMorrow). Gheb I have a leaning town read as well, but he really makes me nervous because I never know how to read him.
 

Zalak

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
1,632
Location
Washington
NNID
Zalak123
Spak Spak

Why did you kill me? Yesterday it sounded like you were changing your mind, and Maven had not done much in terms of self-defense.
 

Zalak

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
1,632
Location
Washington
NNID
Zalak123
Your decision just doesn't seem to line up with what you were saying earlier.
 

Zalak

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
1,632
Location
Washington
NNID
Zalak123
Okay so, my investigation list goes

1. Generic (GET THIS GUY POSTING)
2. Maven ( I think I've already stated my problems with this guy)
3. Gheb (His criticisms of my play seemed either baseless, or slightly off. I believe there was an instance where he posted something like "you have no idea what you're talking about, i'll get to this later", and never got to it, but the memory is fuzzy. I really just don't like his attitude towards my slot. He never explained his problems with me in that great detail. Also if Generic turns out to be bad, I'd be slightly more worried about Gheb)
4. Orbo (Needs to post, badly)
 
Top Bottom