R.O.B. Matchup Table

[DRaGZ]

and why is wario an even matchup?
i seriously thought that would be in ROB's favor

Grab release hijinks.

 

[Jamnt0ast]

hmm. i would say rob has the advantage on shiek because of lack of shiek being able to gimp, but samus... no

 

[Extremenerd]

ROB's matchup vs Lucas should be more onesided. Lucas is easily outranged, outcamped, and gimped. Lucas' main advantage in this matchup is PK Love (which I have been hit with MANY times) because it lasts so long. If he misses, it is hard to punish. However, PK fire is beat by laser, gets taken out by gyro, and even a well placed jab deals with it. Lucas' spike rarely kills a good ROB. It isn't strong enough. Lucas is easily gimped with a number of moves. Laser/gyro knocks Lucas out of his PKT2. Fair can take out PKT, making Lucas drop into Fall Special.

I would easily got 75:25 ROB

I also think Toon Link has a slightly bigger advantage over ROB. TL juggles ROB very easily, and his Uair dominates ROB's blindspot. TL triple jump is not easily gimped without a well placed gyro/laser. TL Diar also out-prioritizes one of ROB's best damage moves, Uair.

I would say 65:35 TL

 

[DRaGZ]

Extremenerd. Play some good Lucases and some good Toon Links, and then return.

I won't comment on the Lucas, but Toon Link is outcamped by R.O.B. at nearly every range. The only area he's not outranged is at long distance, at which they are even. And R.O.B. can get out of the b-air juggle very easily, at most TL will hit him twice.

 

[ipitydatfu]

those earthbound kids are very combo happy when their opponents are large, and not very good, not to mention that upB x_x

 

[Sudai]

FAir cancels Ness's Up-B, Laser(he loses control of it) or Side B(reflects but still a bad idea cause he can curve it around your arms) thwart Lucas' rather well. I'm assuming you're talking about them edgeguarding with the up-b cause if you mean their recoveries with it...lol.

 

[ipitydatfu]

yeah edgeguarding ness, personally i just run off the stage into it to cancel it out, lucas is a bit harder with my bad tactic lol.

i was just making a statement agreeing with Dragz about his statement to Extremenerd. shouldve quoted first tho

 

[Sudai]

Ah, I gotcha. You can still mess with Lucas by just throwing a gyro at him while he does it. If he hits the gyro during PKT2, it shortens his distance by half from where he hits it at..so throw it early and it either hits him further back or severely lowers his distance. It's awesome.

 

[ipitydatfu]

hmmm i see. thanks!

 

[Blackbelt]

Ah, I gotcha. You can still mess with Lucas by just throwing a gyro at him while he does it. If he hits the gyro during PKT2, it shortens his distance by half from where he hits it at..so throw it early and it either hits him further back or severely lowers his distance. It's awesome.

The problem with that logic is that Lucas doesn't need to use Pk Thunder to recover.


He has zap jumping, magnet pulling, and a very nice tether recovery.


He will rarely leave himself open for such a tactic.

 

[Sudai]

The problem with that logic is that Lucas doesn't need to use Pk Thunder to recover.


He has zap jumping, magnet pulling, and a very nice tether recovery.


He will rarely leave himself open for such a tactic.

Oh, I know that you can't just do that and it'll work every single time, but ROB has the tools to force Lucas into that position on a regular basis. ROB's aggressive edge guarding beats out Lucas' predictable recovery. I could go into detail on how ROB can effectively force gimp Lucas nearly every time, but I don't feel like going through all that. (Do know though, I'm not talking at ******** low percents. I'm talking 70-80% at least. ROB -can- gimp Lucas that low, but it takes a lot more effort and a lot more luck to do. After 70% or so, though, ROB should be able to consistently gimp a Lucas)

 

[soloSHADOWROB]

My Bowser hasnt lost to any ROB player =]
Id have to argue the Bowser vs. ROB one tho lol
Bowser does surprisingly well against him
As for everything else it seems fairly accurate to me, dont let everyone else see this tho cuz the yare gon try and argue their opinion lol.
I agree with everything except the Bowser one til further info =]
lol

 

[BoTastic!]

Maybe the Rob player is bad?

I agree its not that one sided, but bowser is easy.

 

[Sudai]

Bowser:

-**** near impossible to gimp.
-Up-B out of shield too good.
-Fire > Gyro
-Fire > Ledge Camping
-His grounded range is about as good as ours, his DTilt outranges FTilt too I think.
-He has grab release **** on us.

I could see Bowser vs ROB being close to neutral.

Not saying it's in Bowser's favor but 70:30 in ROB's favor is a bit much. I personally think it's closer to 60:40.

 

[BoTastic!]

Bowser is hard to gimp?

 

[DRaGZ]

Bowser's Up+B has surprising amount of priority. Also, his d-tilt isn't just long, it's massive, so your usual f-tilt spacing at medium range won't always work, you have to scooch in a bit closer and use d-tilt instead, which generally isn't as effective for getting him off your back.

Gyro still works, but not as well as one would like while he's on the stage. So the majority of your spamming will be with lasers.

However, in the air, R.O.B. beats the **** out of Bowser.

 

[Sudai]

Not only is Bowser's up-b very strong priority wise, it is also slightly disjointed on the outsides. This means FAir gimping won't work. DAir gimping was never easy in the first place. Good luck gimping a smart Bowser.

 

[Jamnt0ast]

there is no discussion with the bowser matchup LOL.

Long Range: Lasers + Gyros

Medium Range: Ftilt outranges EVERYTHING

Close range: dsmash and jabs.

Air: None of bowser's moves are fast enough to withstand WOP -> Reverse B-UP -> Bair. EASY gimp

 

[Sudai]

Medium Range? Bowser outranges ROB using his DTilt

Air: Up-B is faster than all of ROB's aerials, out prioritizes all of them, and is disjointed.

 

[Jamnt0ast]

uhm... Bair ***** Bowser's up B, Bowsers Dtilt is MUCH slower than rob's ftilt, and fair chain is faster than bowsers up b.

 

[Sudai]

You obviously haven't played any good bowsers.

 

[Jamnt0ast]

i have lol

 

[Sudai]

Then you should know proper DI + up-b beats out FAir chains.

 

[soloSHADOWROB]

Idk Id have to say its 60:40 ROB's favor but its not ****
I powershield all of ROB's projectiles just cuz . . . . well the muuuh ****er is my character i know when to lol
I know how to DI properly against ROB and how to punish him =]
Id say its debatable
and as for the ROB players . . . some of them sucked but some of them are hella good

 

[jjvirus]

I dont even know why we're arguing over ROB vs Boswer. Bowser gets WOP'd like crazy, he is outranged on the ground for sure, and Bowser's air play isn't even comparable to ROB's. Bowser <<< ROB ^_^

 

[frdagaa]

A bowser can win, but ROB's got the advantage. Ok, cool beans, next.

 

[DRaGZ]

I think the problem is people underestimating characters just because they are lower tiered, which isn't a smart thing to do..

 

[jjvirus]

I think the problem is people underestimating characters just because they are lower tiered, which isn't a smart thing to do..

How is that being done here...? We goin by straight fact, and thats all there is to it

A bowser can win, but ROB's got the advantage. Ok, cool beans, next.

Yah..lets move on.

 

[DRaGZ]

How is that being done here...? We goin by straight fact, and thats all there is to it




Yah..lets move on.

A match-up discussion is based on straight fact, but the conclusions are often drawn on opinion. People are overlooking certain facts just for the sake of their conclusions. I think the problem is people are thinking about how hard they think it is before actually considering the aspects of the match-up first, i.e. trying to prove a hypothesis. A scientific process is inapplicable to something like a match-up discussion because a match-up discussion is based on what we know and match results, not something which can be easily scientifically evaluated.

Long story short, some people are only going by the facts they want to see and hear, not all of the facts that we know.

 

[jjvirus]

True. But either way I'd say most people who have been posting on this thread know what they're talkin about rather than be biased in any way.

 

[BoTastic!]

Mario easily gimps Bowser with cape.

Rob gimps better than Mario does. Bowser isn't the easiest to gimp, but he's no G&W.
I don't know about 60:40. idk maybe 65:35. I may be wrong.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Bowser has some release grab stuff, which is a 100% safe + free Ftilt (aka KO) set-up. His UpB Oos also beats ROBs dsmash Oos iirc with it's invincibility frames

 

[PhantomX]

Wario has grab release hijinks on ROB? I thought they were even b/c of being able to juggle + farts offstage.

 

[DRaGZ]

Wario has grab release hijinks on ROB? I thought they were even b/c of being able to juggle + farts offstage.

I meant R.O.B. has grab release hijinks on Wario...

Wait, what did I just say? o_O

I must not have read that correctly when I responded, lol.

Yes, you are correct. R.O.B. is even/slight advantage because of the grab release crap but Wario outplays him in the air.

 

[JCaesar]

I disagree, I think ROB destroys Wario. Stand under a platform, shoot at him, and ftilt when he gets close. Not a **** thing he can do about it. In the air ROB's fair beats everything Wario has (except maybe Bite?).

The free release->usmashes (guaranteed kills around 100%) sure don't hurt either.

 

[PhantomX]

I think you need to play against a better Wario :\

One of ROB's blindspots is above him, Wario's staple move is dair. You guys love spotdodge to dsmash, we love to eat your dodge. Fair beats everything we have that isn't our super beastly airdodge [the airdodge is long enough to avoid a full nair](though I think it will trade hits w/ our fair [donno frame count for ROBs, Wario's comes out in 5]). Easy for us to get you offstage, fart is pretty much unavoidable when we do.

Also, odn't talk about platforms, those are a boon and a bane for you. Sure you can keep us away under one, but you get stuck above it and you better be ready to take a trillion damage from up airs (which also come out faste than your nair, dair, bair). Lastly, ROB is one of those characters that doesn't hold Wario into the air, so unless we mash to get out, you won't be getting those free upsmashes (we only jump break from your grabs on slants or if we mash as you're releasing, otherwise it's a ground break).

It's evenish b/c of your dominance on the ground. Once we pop you in the air you're hardpressed to get away.

 

[ipitydatfu]

I think you need to play against a better ROB :\

spot dodge downsmash is just a move to get away, our blindspots from above isnt as bad as you think. ftilt alone can cover anything above and towards teh front of us, not to mention our uptilts. our gyros can nkock you off your bikes, and we also have lazuh.

well if you dont break out upwards, we can just d-tilt to trip, and regrab.

your aerials might be fast, but we arent the types who rush in blindly without exploiting your holes from far away.

 

[PhantomX]

I think you need to play against a better ROB :\

spot dodge downsmash is just a move to get away, our blindspots from above isnt as bad as you think. ftilt alone can cover anything above and towards teh front of us, not to mention our uptilts. our gyros can nkock you off your bikes, and we also have lazuh.

well if you dont break out upwards, we can just d-tilt to trip, and regrab.

your aerials might be fast, but we arent the types who rush in blindly without exploiting your holes from far away.

Notice I said it's even, lol. I've played good ROBs. I know I may have made it seem like Wario can overwhelm ROB, but that's not how I intended it at all, I was just elaborating on some of the things he can do (which is sorta what you're doing now).

 

[ipitydatfu]

yeah you did >_<,

i took it too seriously there

 

[JCaesar]

Clearly spamming spotdodge is a bad idea in this matchup, just like in ROB vs Peach. It's not so crucial that ROB can't live without it, it just forces ROB to be a bit more mobile on the ground than usual.

That's exactly how I play vs Wario though: walk back and forth with ftilts/utilts whenever Wario tries to get in close. ROB doesn't really have a blindspot above him, though he's somewhat open from about 45-60 degrees up if he stays stationary. Ftilt can be angled upward and utilt has surprising horizontal range and can do major damage if you get caught in it and try to DI out.

Platforms are a great boost to ROB as long as he's grounded. I admit he can have trouble getting down vs Wario, but if ROB is getting overwhelmed he can fly to the edge where Wario can't do much to him. I would easily take Battlefield over FD in this matchup, just because ROB can make it frustratingly difficult for Wario to approach by just standing under a platform. Dair bombs are Wario's best approach vs ROB and platforms eliminate them entirely and force him to approach low where he gets massively outranged. If Wario SHADes in, follow the ftilt with a dsmash. Simple.

In the air, ROB is vulnerable from below, but from any other angle, ROB wins. Fair and bair are disjointed and high-priority enough to beat any of Wario's aerials. Same with uair, though I think a fastfalled dair might be able to break through, I can't remember.

I've played a lot of this match with Slikvik, one of the best Warios in MD/VA, and he refuses to use Wario against my ROB now because the matches were getting so one-sided.

JCaesar (ROB) vs SlikVik (Wario)
Smashville - some funny wheel combos early on
Yoshi's Story - fair and Wario's ftilt trade hits, be careful with that
Battlefield - ftilts and grab release -> usmashes, poor Wario, nothing he can do

That last match is what put him over the edge.

Maybe if Vik sees this (I know you search your name) he can add his 2 cents.

Oh and yeah, you're right about the grab-releases not working. He didn't know about it at the time. I don't think it makes a huge impact on the matchup though.

The trick is not playing Wario's game. ROB can force Wario to fight on his terms.

Thanks for discussing the matchup with us though Phantom