Queen of the Underworld: Medusa's Secret Hideout

[Ikanger]

It showed a Medusa statue.

Yeah but Medusa is a common enemy in the Castlevania games for as far as I know. I feel like it's hardly a hint.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

And Medusa's Head is a cult enemy of Castlevania, too.

You know... can we discuss how Medusa seems to be a "low priority" amongst the community, even as an Echo fighter?

I believe that people tend to just not focus on Kid Icarus content because there's no new KI game. After all, the future of a serie is taken in account when adding characters and such (probably why Lucas was low priority for Smash 4).

But... It's not that Nintendo didn't released games since the last Smash (I mean we have Splatoon now, and Snipperclips music!) but if the project started in 2015 for Smash Ultimate, then KI:U isn't that old. Anyway, a new KI character is in all honesty not a priority, I can understand that. We can hope that popularity, Sakurai bias and even echo / semi-clone potential goes in the favor of our goddess, though!

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

And Medusa's Head is a cult enemy of Castlevania, too.



I believe that people tend to just not focus on Kid Icarus content because there's no new KI game. After all, the future of a serie is taken in account when adding characters and such (probably why Lucas was low priority for Smash 4).

But... It's not that Nintendo didn't released games since the last Smash (I mean we have Splatoon now, and Snipperclips music!) but if the project started in 2015 for Smash Ultimate, then KI:U isn't that old. Anyway, a new KI character is in all honesty not a priority, I can understand that. We can hope that popularity, Sakurai bias and even echo / semi-clone potential goes in the favor of our goddess, though!

Alot seems to be in favor of our goddess actually.. Kid Icarus is a already established series in which has yet to have a villain, and it seems Sakurai has been focusing on adding villains.

 

[Machete]

it seems Sakurai has been focusing on adding villains.

I... wouldn't really say this, honestly. K.Rool and Ridley were massively popular requests since forever, and Dark Samus was a popular character, more Metroid representation was often asked, and she's an easy echo. 3/9 isn't really focusing on adding villains, it's just that Smash lacked villains and thus were popular requests.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I... wouldn't really say this, honestly. K.Rool and Ridley were massively popular requests since forever, and Dark Samus was a popular character, more Metroid representation was often asked, and she's an easy echo. 3/9 isn't really focusing on adding villains, it's just that Smash lacked villains and thus were popular requests.

Its just that the Kid Icarus series lacks its villain so it needs Medusa added

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Let's be cautious about the "villain theme". Especially after the bundle of cuteness that Isabelle is. We only have a third of the newcomers that are villains, and they were indeed popular requests.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Let's be cautious about the "villain theme". Especially after the bundle of cuteness that Isabelle is. We only have a third of the newcomers that are villains, and they were indeed popular requests.

I thought Isabelle was the Animal Crossing villain no?

I will not accept Medusa's chances to be ruined because of these worthless fans and what they believe to be popular, she doesnt need them.. Heels win titles without the popularity of these hypocrites like those so called fans and so can Medusa!

( Basically trying to say, popularity does not matter )

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I thought Isabelle was the Animal Crossing villain no?

I will not accept Medusa's chances to be ruined because of these worthless fans and what they believe to be popular, she doesnt need them.. Heels win titles without the popularity of these hypocrites like those so called fans and so can Medusa!

( Basically trying to say, popularity does not matter )

Popularity does matter, especially with the ballot, but see it like this: Medusa's chances are Medusa's chances, not Ridley's or Isaac's. Super Smash Bros newcomer selection isn't a game of Musical Chairs.

There is priorities and such, but... If a character gets in, it's not to the detriment of another. MAYBE inside a serie (K.Rool may hurt Dixie chances, for example. Enphasis on "may"). But other than that... Medusa is still the villain of the original KI. No more, no less. If she gets in, it's because of her own merits more than anything.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Popularity does matter, especially with the ballot, but see it like this: Medusa's chances are Medusa's chances, not Ridley's or Isaac's. Super Smash Bros newcomer selection isn't a game of Musical Chairs.

There is priorities and such, but... If a character gets in, it's not to the detriment of another. MAYBE inside a serie (K.Rool may hurt Dixie chances, for example. Enphasis on "may"). But other than that... Medusa is still the villain of the original KI. No more, no less. If she gets in, it's because of her own merits more than anything.

I really really want Medusa in Super Smash Bros Ultimate and I really hope it happens.. No matter what, I will always include Medusa on my most wanted characters lists because I want this to happen.

 

[Machete]

Its just that the Kid Icarus series lacks its villain so it needs Medusa added

You could argue that about a lot of franchises. Ridley and K.Rool were monsters in terms of popularity and significance, you shouldn't extrapolate from them to support any other villain. Dark Samus is the closest case, but again, more Metroid representation in general was a huge request, she was the second most requested Metroid character, and she is the main villain of the Metroid Prime trilogy, which was, again, tremendously significant and critically acclaimed. And she is an echo. If there was indeed a focus on adding villains, we could've seen Black Shadow, Porky, the Black Knight, King Boo, Skull Kid, Akuma, Dark Matter, DJ Octavio... I am aware some of these are rumored to be in the game as well, but up until we actually see them, we can't use them as arguments in favor of Medusa., because without them, you can't argue that these characters got in because they are villains, since they got in because they were extremely popular. This has been said both at E3 and in Famitsu columns. Even if one wants to argue that a possible story mode would be good for a villainous character, one just has to remember that Brawl had a rather lengthy story mode and had just three clearcut villains in it (Wario, Ganondorf and Bowser). A story mode doesn't necessarily mean more villains are gonna make the cut.

Since Medusa would be an echo, if there's one villain newcomer you have to compare her to, if you have to, is Dark Samus. And again, not the most favorable comparison. There was clearly an outcry for more Metroid representation (and arguably, more western representation/something from Retro Studios), whereas the immense amount of Kid Icarus content in Smash 4 was criticised by some, and Dark Pit was the most reviled newcomer. Dark Samus was the sole reasonable newcomer from Metroid after Ridley, whereas Medusa would have competition in the form of Hades and Viridi (Medusa triumphs here thanks to her legacy status and especially being the closest one to Palutena, but it's worth pointing out nonetheless). Let's not forget that Sakurai is the one who chose not to make Medusa the main villain of Uprising.

What I am trying to say is that Medusa has her pros. She is an easy echo, and one that could get pretty creative thanks to Palutena's missing specials, should they choose to use them. She comes from one of Sakurai's babies. She's got legacy. She brings a character archetype there's none of. And she is a woman, something that Sakurai addressed they wanted more of (this was in Smash 4, but it's nonetheless good for her). But, she is not as popular as the other echoes, the villain status hasn't been mentioned as a factor with any of the other villain newcomers, and her series is arguably too minor for another character. She's got things going for her, but she also has things against her, and I don't want people to get overexcited.

At the end of the day, Sakurai will do whatever he wants, and if when deciding the roster he decided that Medusa was a good inclusion, then we'll all celebrate. But let's try to be realistic.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

People still forgetting Sakurai Bias is on Medusa's side?

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

You could argue that about a lot of franchises. Ridley and K.Rool were monsters in terms of popularity and significance, you shouldn't extrapolate from them to support any other villain. Dark Samus is the closest case, but again, more Metroid representation in general was a huge request, she was the second most requested Metroid character, and she is the main villain of the Metroid Prime trilogy, which was, again, tremendously significant and critically acclaimed. And she is an echo. If there was indeed a focus on adding villains, we could've seen Black Shadow, Porky, the Black Knight, King Boo, Skull Kid, Akuma, Dark Matter, DJ Octavio... I am aware some of these are rumored to be in the game as well, but up until we actually see them, we can't use them as arguments in favor of Medusa., because without them, you can't argue that these characters got in because they are villains, since they got in because they were extremely popular. This has been said both at E3 and in Famitsu columns. Even if one wants to argue that a possible story mode would be good for a villainous character, one just has to remember that Brawl had a rather lengthy story mode and had just three clearcut villains in it (Wario, Ganondorf and Bowser). A story mode doesn't necessarily mean more villains are gonna make the cut.

Since Medusa would be an echo, if there's one villain newcomer you have to compare her to, if you have to, is Dark Samus. And again, not the most favorable comparison. There was clearly an outcry for more Metroid representation (and arguably, more western representation/something from Retro Studios), whereas the immense amount of Kid Icarus content in Smash 4 was criticised by some, and Dark Pit was the most reviled newcomer. Dark Samus was the sole reasonable newcomer from Metroid after Ridley, whereas Medusa would have competition in the form of Hades and Viridi (Medusa triumphs here thanks to her legacy status and especially being the closest one to Palutena, but it's worth pointing out nonetheless). Let's not forget that Sakurai is the one who chose not to make Medusa the main villain of Uprising.

What I am trying to say is that Medusa has her pros. She is an easy echo, and one that could get pretty creative thanks to Palutena's missing specials, should they choose to use them. She comes from one of Sakurai's babies. She's got legacy. She brings a character archetype there's none of. And she is a woman, something that Sakurai addressed they wanted more of (this was in Smash 4, but it's nonetheless good for her). But, she is not as popular as the other echoes, the villain status hasn't been mentioned as a factor with any of the other villain newcomers, and her series is arguably too minor for another character. She's got things going for her, but she also has things against her, and I don't want people to get overexcited.

At the end of the day, Sakurai will do whatever he wants, and if when deciding the roster he decided that Medusa was a good inclusion, then we'll all celebrate. But let's try to be realistic.

Medusa would be the first female villain.. That will be neat.. And Im sure Sakurai is bias for Medusa being added.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Medusa would be the first female villain.. That will be neat.. And Im sure Sakurai is bias for Medusa being added.

Actually she'd be the second. Dark Samus is the first whom I always assumed was genderless.

 

[Machete]

People still forgetting Sakurai Bias is on Medusa's side?

I mean, that's a positive, but he is the one who chose to replace her as the main villain. She may have it, but not as significantly as the other KI characters already in the game, I think. Still a positive, though.

Medusa would be the first female villain.. That will be neat.. And Im sure Sakurai is bias for Medusa being added.

Dark Samus is the first female villain on a technicality, but yes, Medusa would be the first actual unequivocal female villain. She's got the sidetit to prove it.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Actually she'd be the second. Dark Samus is the first whom I always assumed was genderless.

First, Dark Samus is indeed genderless

 

[Admiral Pit]

Hmm, quite the activity.

I'm still not sure about Medusa being an echo in the first place. She doesn't have a shield like Palu does, but rather has nails, and we've seen her potential moves in her boss battle, which of course she can be so much more. Alas, I'll be pretty glad if she does make it in for sure, that or Phosphora has the best chances for a new KI rep in my eyes, but obviously I hope both make it in.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hmm, quite the activity.

I'm still not sure about Medusa being an echo in the first place. She doesn't have a shield like Palu does, but rather has nails, and we've seen her potential moves in her boss battle, which of course she can be so much more. Alas, I'll be pretty glad if she does make it in for sure, that or Phosphora has the best chances for a new KI rep in my eyes, but obviously I hope both make it in.

She can be a semi-echo in the same vain how Isabelle is to Villager.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Echo is still a possibility (transform the shield attack as punches and voila) but Isabelle is a proof that semiclones still exists, so we can hope for the best!

On the other hand, this also helps Viridi. So again, we kinda are back to square one.

 

[Machete]

Hmm, quite the activity.

I'm still not sure about Medusa being an echo in the first place. She doesn't have a shield like Palu does, but rather has nails, and we've seen her potential moves in her boss battle, which of course she can be so much more. Alas, I'll be pretty glad if she does make it in for sure, that or Phosphora has the best chances for a new KI rep in my eyes, but obviously I hope both make it in.

Would it really be that much work to change the, like, two shield attacks of Palutena into claw attacks?

Chrom holds his sword in a normal grip despite Roy's reverse grip and Dark Samus has a completely different stance and dodge.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Echo is still a possibility (transform the shield attack as punches and voila) but Isabelle is a proof that semiclones still exists, so we can hope for the best!

On the other hand, this also helps Viridi. So again, we kinda are back to square one.

Actually more like change the shield to a her shadow claw attack.. It is a dash attack.

None of Palutena's moves really translate well into elemental forces of nature moves if you look at it from a certain point of view.. Also Viridi never fights, she just talks all the time.

Palutena and Medusa have both been seen in battle.

One thing I do wonder about Viridi is if she would replace Magnus as a assist.

Semi Clone is very possible, especially for a character who could have been at first intended as a echo... Maybe this could happen with Medusa?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

None of Palutena's moves really translate well into elemental forces of nature moves if you look at it from a certain point of view.. Also Viridi never fights, she just talks all the time.

Indeed, it's complicated to translate many moves of Palutena as Nature themed attack (although a vine as an UpSmash work well in my opinion) but Viridi as a semi-clone gain access to Palutena's B-moves, and some are generic enough (she can grant them to Pit, remember), and this gives room to be creative with the nature theme.

But yeah, Medusa have a boss battle, and this therefore give references for a Smash moveset, and this is something I love about Smash. And this have interesting moves too, we don't have "humans" with claw attacks if I'm correct... Or snakes on the head to begin with.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Viridi also doesn't have the height and structure to match Palutena. Medusa does. Their attacks and status' are also opposites. Light and dark.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Indeed, it's complicated to translate many moves of Palutena as Nature themed attack (although a vine as an UpSmash work well in my opinion) but Viridi as a semi-clone gain access to Palutena's B-moves, and some are generic enough (she can grant them to Pit, remember), and this gives room to be creative with the nature theme.

But yeah, Medusa have a boss battle, and this therefore give references for a Smash moveset, and this is something I love about Smash. And this have interesting moves too, we don't have "humans" with claw attacks if I'm correct... Or snakes on the head to begin with.

And some of the movement from Medusa in that boss battle somewhat mimiced Palutena's style.. Except Medusa is slower, which would make sense for her to be slower and more powerful.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Viridi also doesn't have the height and structure to match Palutena. Medusa does. Their attacks and status' are also opposites. Light and dark.

Yeah, Viridi doesn't work as an echo, only a semi-clone. And Medusa is indeed linked to Palutena.

And some of the movement from Medusa in that boss battle somewhat mimiced Palutena's style.. Except Medusa is slower, which would make sense for her to be slower and more powerful.

Well, we have warp to begin with!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah, Viridi doesn't work as an echo, only a semi-clone. And Medusa is indeed linked to Palutena.

Even a semi-clone I can't see. Viridi is the Goddess of Nature. She'd have plant-based attacks or such something that isn't comparable to Palutena.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Even a semi-clone I can't see. Viridi is the Goddess of Nature. She'd have plant-based attacks or such something that isn't comparable to Palutena.

Well, you know... Even if it's an "error" of Smash, we had the king of thieves, Ganondorf, as a clone of a futuristic racer, Falcon. Except for the build, they have nothing in common, and yet...

As a semi-clone (think Lucas or Wolf), Viridi can have new tilts and aerials, where plants grow and all. And Medusa can her claw, poison, snakes, uppercut and all. Look at Isabelle, she can be seen as a semi-clone, but the party-popper have nothing in common with a bowling ball!

Viridi would obviously require the same kind of creativity that was need for characters like Ice Climbers or Rosalina, who had ice and space themed attacks respectively (strangely, both are "dual fighters").

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Yeah, Viridi doesn't work as an echo, only a semi-clone. And Medusa is indeed linked to Palutena.



Well, we have warp to begin with!

Yep and plenty of other attacks too!

Even a semi-clone I can't see. Viridi is the Goddess of Nature. She'd have plant-based attacks or such something that isn't comparable to Palutena.

Or she'd have a moveset based around her big mouth lol

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well, you know... Even if it's an "error" of Smash, we had the king of thieves, Ganondorf, as a clone of a futuristic racer, Falcon. Except for the build, they have nothing in common, and yet...

As a semi-clone (think Lucas or Wolf), Viridi can have new tilts and aerials, where plants grow and all. And Medusa can her claw, poison, snakes, uppercut and all. Look at Isabelle, she can be seen as a semi-clone, but the party-popper have nothing in common with a bowling ball!

Viridi would obviously require the same kind of creativity that was need for characters like Ice Climbers or Rosalina, who had ice and space themed attacks respectively (strangely, both are "dual fighters").

Fairly good points there. Even then I don't see her chances as she's already a stage hazard.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Fairly good points there. Even then I don't see her chances as she's already a stage hazard.

Yeah this is another problem for Viridi entirely. Especially when ST Link is replaced by Alfonzo when any Link is on the stage, even when it doesn't look at all like ST Link.

And Viridi is part of the stage, not a little extra like Dedede on Dreamland 64. She may only appear as a projection, but it's still her who send the reset bomb. I guess she could also just not appear if she was playable, and on the stage, but that would be kinda weird to me.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah this is another problem for Viridi entirely. Especially when ST Link is replaced by Alfonzo when any Link is on the stage, even when it doesn't look at all like ST Link.

And Viridi is part of the stage, not a little extra like Dedede on Dreamland 64. She may only appear as a projection, but it's still her who send the reset bomb. I guess she could also just not appear if she was playable, and on the stage, but that would be kinda weird to me.

Now don't get me wrong though. I personally wouldn't oppose Viridi at all but I much prefer Medusa especially to balance out the Kid Icarus roster with 2 uniques, 2 echos and two lights and two darks.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Yeah this is another problem for Viridi entirely. Especially when ST Link is replaced by Alfonzo when any Link is on the stage, even when it doesn't look at all like ST Link.

And Viridi is part of the stage, not a little extra like Dedede on Dreamland 64. She may only appear as a projection, but it's still her who send the reset bomb. I guess she could also just not appear if she was playable, and on the stage, but that would be kinda weird to me.

Yeah seems Viridi kind of needs to be there in the backround to do the reset bomb so..

Anyway, as of now the Kid Icarus series stands at three characters.. Pit, Palutena and Dark Pit.. It somewhat seems lacking and if Medusa was added, it would balance it out, especially with the light vs dark theme with the series

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Now don't get me wrong though. I personally wouldn't oppose Viridi at all but I much prefer Medusa especially to balance out the Kid Icarus roster with 2 uniques, 2 echos and two lights and two darks.

Don't worry, it's the same for me! Medusa is one of my requested character after all, but I just want more Kid Icarus. And I like Viridi too!
It's the same with Zelda, I may want Ganon and Impa, but if we get Skull Kid... I would be happy nonetheless, as it's more Zelda content.

She kind of needs to do the reset bomb so she probably needs to be there

Technically, she is required for the bomb yes. But I suppose that a little change doesn't hurt. It's only in the background but look at the Great Bay: the 4 Giants push the moon back in the sky, something that they never really did, they only stop it.

Smash is full of references, but allow some changes when needed. There's many examples, like Inklings who don't need to be in their own ink to reload.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Don't worry, it's the same for me! Medusa is one of my requested character after all, but I just want more Kid Icarus. And I like Viridi too!
It's the same with Zelda, I may want Ganon and Impa, but if we get Skull Kid... I would be happy nonetheless, as it's more Zelda content.



Technically, she is required for the bomb yes. But I suppose that a little change doesn't hurt. It's only in the background but look at the Great Bay: the 4 Giants push the moon back in the sky, something that they never really did, they only stop it.

Smash is full of references, but allow some changes when needed. There's many examples, like Inklings who don't need to be in their own ink to reload.

Question, what if Medusa got Palutena's side taunt?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Don't worry, it's the same for me! Medusa is one of my requested character after all, but I just want more Kid Icarus. And I like Viridi too!
It's the same with Zelda, I may want Ganon and Impa, but if we get Skull Kid... I would be happy nonetheless, as it's more Zelda content.

Based on your avatar. I thought so anyways.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Question, what if Medusa got Palutena's side taunt?

That... Would be super weird actually If Medusa is going the sexy route, it would be something else.

Based on your avatar. I thought so anyways.

Yeah, hard to hide that I want Medusa, especially when you add the signature where she is "first" (I mean, I want Ashley and Medusa equally, so...)

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

That... Would be super weird actually If Medusa is going the sexy route, it would be something else.



Yeah, hard to hide that I want Medusa, especially when you add the signature where she is "first" (I mean, I want Ashley and Medusa equally, so...)

Tbh, I actually do find Medusa quite sexy.. But yeah it would be something else indeed. lol

Medusa is my most wanted character, others I would like.. I hope to see Isaac, Mona would be cool for another Warioware rep, and another echo I been thinking of is Hilda considering Zelda is in her LBTW attire.. Oh and I also would like Incineroar because he reminds me of the wrestler Kane.

 

[Deleted member]

I thought Isabelle was the Animal Crossing villain no?

I will not accept Medusa's chances to be ruined because of these worthless fans and what they believe to be popular, she doesnt need them.. Heels win titles without the popularity of these hypocrites like those so called fans and so can Medusa!

( Basically trying to say, popularity does not matter )

No, no, no. Everybody knows that loan shark Tom Nook is the true antagonist of Animal Crossing. Why, even Crazy Redd thought he was dirty, and that dude happily sells you forged paintings.

Just... try not to get too angry, okay? Passion is one thing; zealotry is another.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Tbh, I actually do find Medusa quite sexy.. But yeah it would be something else indeed. lol

Maybe something like leaning with a hand and taunting at the same time? Think Juri artwork from Street Fighter 5

Spoiler

Medusa is my most wanted character, others I would like.. I hope to see Isaac, Mona would be cool for another Warioware rep, and another echo I been thinking of is Hilda considering Zelda is in her LBTW attire.. Oh and I also would like Incineroar because he reminds me of the wrestler Kane.

Mona could actually be like Isabelle, but sharing a bike move with Wario. Isaac... To be honest I always found him a bit overrated, but the support he get is still amazing, and I would be happy for his fans if he gets in.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Question, what if Medusa got Palutena's side taunt?

LMAO the thought of Medusa pole dancing like a stripper.

In fact I'm actually even surprised having Palutena do that was allowed in the game...

 

[Machete]

Maybe something like leaning with a hand and taunting at the same time? Think Juri artwork from Street Fighter 5

Spoiler

Yes, I was thining that exactly. Medusa can be teasing, just look at how she talks to Pit when he's approaching her castle in Kid Icarus Uprising, but she's not the kind of teasing that would do a quick poledance and laugh. She'd be the kind to simply whisper something while leaning a bit. Medusa is meant to be bitter, not joyful. She wouldn't do a playful tease, she'd be more likely to be mocking in a way.