Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[RT]

He still gets one, but if he's a stock ahead, he gets a slight debuff. Both stocks and percent matter.

 

[Flashing]

Oooooo didn't know that, thanks. Also does aura boost affect staling his moves at all? Or do his moves get stale just like any other character?

 

[Gah777]

Hey did y'all know ya got what us Wolves like to call a or "lightstep"? It's when you aim for the top half of a ledge, but instead of sweet-spotting and grabbing the ledge, you fall down. The thing is, as soon as this happens you are free to do any aerial action pretty much instantly. Just aim your up-b at the top half of a ledge. Did you know that?

 

[RT]

His moves still stale, but aura can usually make up for it pretty fast.

 

[phi1ny3]

@ Gah, we didn't know that was the terminology, but yeah we were aware of it, Trela does it a lot.

 

[RT]

It should just be called autosnap cancelling.

 

[Gah777]

oh I see. good to know.

Also, is dash attach>up-tilt a combo?

 

[Kitamerby]

If you hit with the late dash attack, then yes, it is.

 

[Psyco]

Ok, I just recently got back into Lucario. I was fighting a bit earlier and I've got a few questions now:
1. As soon as you use double-team, can it immediately counter, or does it take a few frames? (I know it doesn't counter for about the second half)
2. What happens when you counter a counter? For example, using double team on Marth when he uses his b+down move (sorry idk what it's called)

 

[phi1ny3]

No, it's not immediate (you'll occasionally hear a sound of the DT, but no counter will come out).

Most counters have a "stun" jacket, so unless it doesn't target you (only really applicable during teams) counters like Marth/Ike's will go through before you can counter them. You can however counter Lucario's, and maaaybe peach's "counter" moves.

Lucario's DT (Double Team) is a very situational move that's not nearly as rewarding as it should be for a counter, so if you can make it work, more power to you, but 8/10, there's usually more benefit from learning how to outzone/punish a move than to try to counter it.

 

[Psyco]

Ok, thanks.

 

[Zucco]

If I stay at the end of Olimar's grab range, and wait to throw an AS on either reaction to the grab or prediction that he will grab when I throw it, will it hit Olimar before he can shield? Basically I want to take the idea that we use against diddy(wait till he throws a banana and then throw an AS in his face) and apply it to Olimar.

 

[Psyco]

I don't believe Olimar can shield until after the pikmin he throws (when grabbing) hits the ground. So right after he attempts a grab is a good time, but there is only a small window of opportunity so you have to act fast.

 

[Zucco]

if he Fsmash/Dsmashes instead, the AS should kill it, so this strategy doesnt really seem like a bad idea to me.

 

[culexus・wau]

If I stay at the end of Olimar's grab range, and wait to throw an AS on either reaction to the grab or prediction that he will grab when I throw it, will it hit Olimar before he can shield? Basically I want to take the idea that we use against diddy(wait till he throws a banana and then throw an AS in his face) and apply it to Olimar.

YES IT'LL HIT HIM.

ESPECIALLY IF ITS FULL CHARGED.

unless some pikmin is walking towards him at the time, I've had that happen to me before it was hella gay.

 

[Zucco]

Excellent. I wouldnt risk throwing a baby aura sphere anyway.

Time to take a more grounded approach in this MU

 

[phi1ny3]

Good thing Pikmin are awful in priority (except purples )

 

[culexus・wau]

Excellent. I wouldnt risk throwing a baby aura sphere anyway.

Time to take a more grounded approach in this MU

the babies will hit olimar/kill fsmash and dsmash too lol.

 

[Psyco]

Ok, so I was fighting an MK the other day and he used Mach Tornado under me. So I used dair on the top of the Tornado and well... while using the attack neither me nor MK was hurt, but as soon as the attack ended I started getting hit by the Tornado. So Lucario can't hit MK out of his Tornado from above?

 

[D. Disciple]

Yes he can, takes a lot of spacing. When Flame and I were practicing ways to beat tornado when I visit him, I kept getting uair to work, and we got jab to work from time to time as well.

 

[RT]

Remember that dair doesn't hit directly centered below Lucario...you need to space it so that it hits MK in the middle and not the nado hitboxes.

 

[phi1ny3]

The problem is that lucario's dair has to connect with the last hit usually (the second hit is the strongest), on the actual hurtbox in the center (which if the MK's smart, is moving, btw), not the torndao's edges, so it's pretty eh. It's usually better just to try to get towards the center of the tornado (where the renewal of the hitboxes start, and where you have the most time to do something) and footstool the MK out (and hover near him when he's about to end to punish w/ dair/nair), or DT if you know the niche use behind it (not really recommended for beginning lucarios). Or you could just shield -> roll as soon as pressure on your shield has lifted. As of now, Lucario's best tornado killers are probably fsmash, AS, and usmash (at least from what I've noticed), all of which are too slow to pull off against smart MK tornado use. Just be glad Lucario's super floaty and doesn't get nado ***** as much as most of the cast (still is a pretty overpowered move though lol).

 

[Psyco]

Mkay, if you say so...

 

[phi1ny3]

Okay, so I finally found a "suitable" picture for the zoning thread, is anyone still interested in the idea?

I'm also thinking of a "uthrow" thread, I've been playing around with this move a lot and I totally love it lol.

 

[Psyco]

Zoning thread? Jeez I feel awfully stupid.

 

[phi1ny3]

naw, it's alright, you're kinda new, zoning is basically a component of spacing, it's understanding the transition and movement of favorable, neutral, and unfavorable parts of spacing.

 

[Psyco]

Ah, I see. And is this referring to spacing topics, or posts, or...?

 

[phi1ny3]

Spacing as a metagame concept. Basically where you want to be in some scenarios in popular MUs.

 

[Psyco]

Oh. (FAIL) I totally don't understand all the metagame and MU stuff. Uhh... I better skedaddle.

 

[phi1ny3]

It's good to ask questions though, nobody learns the concepts a competitive game overnight.

For example, let's say you've got a marth and a sheik fighting each other, what big advantage does marth have from a first glance? (rhetorical question) The biggest advantage are those long, disjointed hitboxes from a sword, all of which gain damage and power from the tip of the sword. You'll also notice that his moves when they get too close aren't so safe (especially on shield), not only that, but a lot of his moves aren't quick in startup or cooldown from underneath him. Now look at sheik, she's got a lot of relatively fast but short ranged moves, but is coupled together with quick and tight ground movement (she can use run and shield in tandem very easily), and juggles/punishes whiffs in the air really well. Taking this basic knowledge, where do you think Sheik will want to be to get the most damage on Marth? Where is Marth going to keep sheik to levy that strength of his while minimizing weakness?

 

[Psyco]

Oh, that helps a lot, thanks.

 

[JOE!]

what are lucario's Kill Moves? (besides Fsmash, Dair, Usmash and Fthrow )

 

[RT]

Force Palm grab, uair, AS, DT, nair, maybe utilt, Bthrow (near blastzones)...all aura dependent (minus bthrow), obviously. Anything else is almost always situational...like bthrow.

 

[phi1ny3]

Make sure you differentiate the tipper fsmash from the regular fsmash.

THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.

Also, I can say that FlameWaveK is right, dtilt is also a really high percent lol kill move (utilt/dtilt won't kill for aaaaaaaaaaaaages), albeit usually a bit weaker in killing (character dependent).

RT, you forgot dsmash and bair

 

[RT]

Dsmash is rarely used...I would put that under situational. But bair....FUUUUUUUUUUUUU-, you got me there. <_<

Dtilt...I've managed to kill people that are hanging off the edge, or trying to get up. It works if they don't have a safe getup from the edge or are planking and do it wrong.

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh yeah and double team lol. That move is garbage.

Hey dsmash ain't thaaaaaaaaat bad... Stauffy and I have both read rolls to kill with it ;P (they're recorded, too).

naw jk, it's pretty mediocre, but I still prefer it over usmash as a generic smash.

 

[RT]

Garbage, but it kills.

I've gotten dsmash kills too, but I would classify it under situational, because if you can kill someone with dsmash, you might as well use fsmash or AS, lol. Dsmash more for reading rolls, spotdodges or those stuck in helpless state.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Im use to playing pikachu so lucario Dsmash is just downright dissapointing. ._. Nice kill power though. I only use it if I can read the opponent real well, or just throw it out there randomly and still get kills. =p

Also the charging animation is awesome. :V

 

[phi1ny3]

Pikachu dsmash is merely okay (SDI is relatively easy on this move), definitely better than lucario's though.

MK dsmash is where it's at.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Yea, they get out of it like 99% of the time, but it still sends em away. Its a good GTFO move to reset your position. Lucario has the most ****** charging animation though. =p

MK's everything da bess. Except for Fsmash. :V