PYP mafia! Game over!

[Pokechu]

There's something called a joke

I wasn't even accusing you of OMGUS, I was accusing myself, that's why I said I'd vote you and make a wall LOL

 

[Fandangox]

There's something called a joke

Well Im sorry I didn't get it since the other 2 posts seems to suggest the opposite.

 

[Z25]

Wow it’s been a slow day. Although one thing is clear.

with the way this argument is going and the points raised. It’s fan or pokechu.

Sorry fan but I think your the likelier pick.

If not you pokechu can be viewed pretty differently.

Vote: fan

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I really don't have much to say, but, Fandangox, we're out in PoE. If you want, make more of a case on why you're town. Make more of a case on who else is scum. I made my point before and I don't have much to say but I'll go back and read.

Wait what did Third mean by this?

*sigh* the PR's can coordinate together at night, ergo, even if I was scum, there's still only a 50/50 chance at most that, with the bus-driver around, I'd be actually able to hit a PR.

Since the dayshot will probably be used on you or Dooplissity, it means that only the Bus Driver is left. I purposely told them "You don't have to/can lie about the night actions you send me". I even told them I'd be fine with just about anyone as the Daykill as long as it's not me or the PR hitting the other PR.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

with the way this argument is going and the points raised. It’s fan or pokechu.

wait

what

granted, if Chu's the last scum, that'd be one hell of a bus.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Fandangox brought up an interesting suggestion, so, just hang on tight everyone while I grab Moy and Seph's reads lists.

 

[Z25]

wait

what

granted, if Chu's the last scum, that'd be one hell of a bus.

Well it’s just a thought might not lead anywhere. But I’ll be re reading stuff if the game goes on

 

[Thirdkoopa]

#410

TOWN
4. Maven: He feels like he has town's best interest at heart with his posts in the pregame. And although I disagree with him on the role choices, I feel like he had no ill intent. I also feel like he's willing to change his viewpoint on Nabe, and that's a good thing.

TOWN LEAN
9. Fandangox: Is similar to Maven, but I haven't really seen his presence as much as Maven's until recently.

#436

4. Maven - I agree with him that a jailer is quite likely and poisoner would have been a bad choice if that is the case, and I'm fine with his push on Nabe and subsequent reconsideration thereof. Not seeing anything too bad here.

9. Fandangox - I think his pushing against Nabe is fine and I agree with his reasoning for doing so, I also don't like Nabe not just saying what he's hinting at so I'm fine with anyone trying to get more meaning out of him. Leaning town.

Maven is Town on Seph and Neutral on Moydow. Fandangox is a Leaning Town on Seph and Moydow

Pokechu is also on the town reads list on both of these. I know where I stand, and, I know where others stand. Looking at these reads lists again really make me doubt Z25 or Shish as the last scum (but WIFOM etc)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Well it’s just a thought might not lead anywhere. But I’ll be re reading stuff if the game goes on

I think the day shot will be very telling.

Interestingly enough regarding Fandangox and Moydow: For a manufactured reads list, they probably tried to separate theirs (unless they had no coordination) - This is WIFOM for a Fandangox-Town and we have a bit of mislynches/misfires to burn through, but, if they did coordinate it, I have this feeling they wouldn't both put Town Lean/Town Lean on him.

On the other hand, Maven wasn't really questioned until Day 2, so Maven/Fandangox/Etc could have just been listened twice as town so people would have had a unanimous "Town" read that they all agree on without question.

It's all wine though. Scum make reads lists that are manufactured. I'd like to see what everyone else thinks of it.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

If anything, I think #410 and #436 practically solidify Z25 as Town for me. That means, fmpov, Z25/me/the two PR's are clear. we have this in the bag.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't like analyzing Mafia's "reads lists" too much because it delves way too easily into "but what if they knew I knew they knew I knew they I knew...". I'd be more inclined to analyze their interactions more than anything.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't like analyzing Mafia's "reads lists" too much because it delves way too easily into "but what if they knew I knew they knew I knew they I knew...". I'd be more inclined to analyze their interactions more than anything.

Did they even interact with Fandangox much? I know Moydow didn't really interact with anyone so we can just about throw that all out. (If anyone wants to look at the ISO again and correct me, gopher it)

I'm not really looking at the reads list here though - I brought up those points for their 'reasoning' as well. Looking at how Seph interacted with Z25 is awfully similar to how Seph interacted with me. Looking at Moydow still attempt to invalidate his VT claim after Seph had already retracted his claim on Z25 being Town. The short version is, they were still trying to cast shadows of doubt on it. Even during Seph's and my Walls o' Doom (About #420~ and #470~ you'll find that whole section there) he still tries to throw Z25 under the rug.

I've played Scum often. I know the difference in setting up a lynch target vs setting up a bus. Nabe had a point to make at how they thought I was going to be the Death Day 1. What I'm saying is: Z25 isn't really worth an option to consider unless the game ends before Day 4 in my opinion.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I've played Scum often. I know the difference in setting up a lynch target vs setting up a bus. Nabe had a point to make at how they thought I was going to be the Death Day 1. What I'm saying is: Z25 isn't really worth an option to consider unless the game ends before Day 4 in my opinion.

Typo: Unless the game doesn't end today/tonight and we make it to Day 4.

 

[Deleted member]

Did they even interact with Fandangox much? I know Moydow didn't really interact with anyone so we can just about throw that all out. (If anyone wants to look at the ISO again and correct me, gopher it)

I'm not really looking at the reads list here though - I brought up those points for their 'reasoning' as well. Looking at how Seph interacted with Z25 is awfully similar to how Seph interacted with me. Looking at Moydow still attempt to invalidate his VT claim after Seph had already retracted his claim on Z25 being Town. The short version is, they were still trying to cast shadows of doubt on it. Even during Seph's and my Walls o' Doom (About #420~ and #470~ you'll find that whole section there) he still tries to throw Z25 under the rug.

I've played Scum often. I know the difference in setting up a lynch target vs setting up a bus. Nabe had a point to make at how they thought I was going to be the Death Day 1. What I'm saying is: Z25 isn't really worth an option to consider unless the game ends before Day 4 in my opinion.

I can't say I remember much from D1 off the top of my head but I don't remember Seph interacting with Fandangox. Making a quick view over his posts(didn't open ones that didn't seem to be replying to anything directly), it seems they were mostly with me, you, Vult, Z25, Maven and Nabe.

 

[Fandangox]

My interactions with Seph where basically me asking why he thought our back and forth on the role vote discussion where more productive than with Maven's. When my and Maven's points about RB+RC, and subsequently our arguments about it were pretty similar.

 

[Fandangox]

My interactions with Seph's start at page 5 for pre-game if you wanna read that

 

[Deleted member]

Ah thanks, I was mostly looking at D1 rather than D0, will check those later.

 

[Vult Redux]

with the way this argument is going and the points raised. It’s fan or pokechu.

Would you lynch pokechu over Shishoe?

 

[Kantrip]

Fwiw Fandango, I do have reasons for scumreading you. I've done another reread and I am even more confident you will yield scum.

The reason no one's laying out a case on you is because there is no opposition to you being the last scum, and no one (especially you) is bringing any particularly compelling evidence to the table for it to be anyone else.

I'll give the bullet points though because I think it's beneficial for the rest of town to see and respond to in case you're not the last mafia.

- Your persistence on Nabe all game to the detriment of anything else causing you to be on neither of the D1 wagons and to not be on Moydow
- Your claim that you were wrong on your Moydow and Seph reads when in actuality you had Moydow as null-scum D2 and just floated her at the convenient 3rd spot in your lynch list to be able to distance without being forced to bus
- Your questions looking like good and reasonable scumhunting but not going anywhere i.e. Your questions to me which you reiterated multiple times while I answered them more of less the same each time and at the end of it you just dropped it and called me town. IMO my answers weren't satisfactory if you were pursuing the angle it seemed you were, but then again I was surprised I didn't get more heat for not switching to Seph
- Reading Seph's and Moydow's reads lists, you are a very convenient townread for both of them almost entirely due to your Nabe push, yet both of them also thought Nabe was town. To their credit, they gave the same treatment to Maven but I get weird vibes from the interactions between you and Seph into conveniently calling each other town, and in general all reads between you and the flipped mafia look safe and convenient

 

[Kantrip]

@Shishœ Pokechu Z25 agree/disagree? If you Fandango is town and you have to pick one person to chance the whole game on being the last scum, who you betting on?

 

[Fandangox]

Page 14. Chu's reasoning for voting deph is a quote from Third. #576 This is a minute before the deadline.

However Chu also convices Soup to drop off the Moy wagon in his #564 #570 and #587 ultimately saying he's ok with Moy.

Chu doesn't show up again till #732 where once again he says Moy is in character with her usual play. This is before a re-read.

Now at this point Chu starts to flip flop on Moy

#738
#749

Starts to not feel so good aboyt Moy.

However #755 and #756 ends up town on Moy.

On Maven:

Third points out on #569 that Seph's read on Maven flip flopped. Its worth noting that the same happened to Maven's Seph read despite having him as scum.

See Maven's #401 for when his stance on Seph changed. #446 Says Seph no longer pushing Z25 when that'd be the easy misslynch is why he is now town-reading Seph.

After that #648 Maven says Seph unvoting Z25 would make sense if they were scum, but I have already pointed out some of Seph posts on why I think it is unlikely both of them are aligned.

After that Maven promises a big post, but then says he got Ill and that's kind of the last we saw of him until he votes Nabe in #867 despite expressing he isnt as strongly about it (or any of his reads) anymore: #824

That's about it, I know I'll obviously be the lynch today, so after my flip the only thing I ask you guys is to actually ****ing discuss with each other who is likely to be the next scum rather than defaulting to Chu, Maven or whoever based on my Flip and PoE like you did today with me.

 

[Deleted member]

Fandangox
Can you link me to a post where Seph directly replied to a post of yours?

@Shishœ Pokechu Z25 agree/disagree? If you Fandango is town and you have to pick one person to chance the whole game on being the last scum, who you betting on?

It seems you're more arguing for him being Scum in that post, no? Or am I misreading it completely?
If Fandango is Town then I'd go back into looking into Maven.

 

[Kantrip]

Fandangox
Can you link me to a post where Seph directly replied to a post of yours?

It seems you're more arguing for him being Scum in that post, no? Or am I misreading it completely?
If Fandango is Town then I'd go back into looking into Maven.

I am. I'm asking if you agree with my points and if you also think Fandango is scum.
And then I'm asking on the case that he is not, who is? Do you think Maven is scummier than Fand?

 

[Deleted member]

I am. I'm asking if you agree with my points and if you also think Fandango is scum.
And then I'm asking on the case that he is not, who is? Do you think Maven is scummier than Fand?

I'm not really sure on either way, you do raise some good points but this is just process of elimination at this point. I don't think Maven is(or was, I forget he has been replaced) scummier than Fan but, again, we'll just be trimming down the list until we bingo it.

 

[Fandangox]

@Shishœ

#176 Me

#182 Seph

#196 Me

#201 Seph

#203 Me

#207 Seph

#210 Me

I think that's all of our pre-game interactions.

 

[Z25]

Would you lynch pokechu over Shishoe?

Atm not sure, but i think I would lean towards keeping shishoe alive first.

@Shishœ Pokechu Z25 agree/disagree? If you Fandango is town and you have to pick one person to chance the whole game on being the last scum, who you betting on?

They aren't bad points but could also mean nothing. Depends on how well coordinated mafia was.

As for most likely scum, maven 1st, and I have some eyes elsewhere but I'll need the results form today to form a better conclusion.

 

[Deleted member]

@Shishœ

#176 Me

#182 Seph

#196 Me

#201 Seph

#203 Me

#207 Seph

#210 Me

I think that's all of our pre-game interactions.

Hmm... Seph seems genuinely trying to convince you in these, something he wouldn't need to do with a teammate.

Thirdkoopa Kantrip what do you two think of these interactions?

 

[Vult Redux]

Vote: Fand

I really do think between him and Maven we win.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Dayvig, shoot. I don't know if Giraffel hasn't been on yet (also plz don't announce yourself) but, if you haven't sent in a shot, do so now just in-case you don't live tonight.

That's about it, I know I'll obviously be the lynch today, so after my flip the only thing I ask you guys is to actually ****ing discuss with each other who is likely to be the next scum rather than defaulting to Chu, Maven or whoever based on my Flip and PoE like you did today with me.

We will if the game makes it to Day 4. I promise. as long as I'm alive

 

[giraffelasergun]

Fandangox, Vanilla Townie, has been daykilled! It is still day 3 and deadline is at 6 pm on 10/23/18!

Dooplissity Kantrip Pokechu @Shishœ Thirdkoopa Vult Redux Z25

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Goddammit.

Vote: Dooplissity

If it's not him we have a busser one our hands.

 

[Z25]

Goddammit.

Vote: Dooplissity

If it's not him we have a busser one our hands.

I’m surprised it wasn’t him actually.

I’ll have to re read the thread tomorrow but for now I want a vote down:

Vote: Doop

 

[Z25]

I’ll be looking over some posts so that if doop isn’t it I can see where a good start from here would be.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

If it's not Doop, from my point of view (fmpov), this would mean one of the following:

This would mean that Pokechu bussed in a Hammer, which he didn't have to, and risked the entire game based off of Seph's bus in an effort to look super townie so nobody would consider him as a lynch option until later in the game

Or Z25 bussed Seph very early because it was clear that they wouldn't get along w/ each other from the get go and Z25 wanted to throw Seph hard under the bus. (honestly the only theory I can come up with in particular)

Or Kantrip meant to bus Seph and didn't get the chance to because of his teacher (or was lying about that) and proceeded to bus Moy.

Or Vult brought up a case to look incredibly Townie so he could lead a lynch on his scum buddy - thinking it would get no traction and thus preparing WCS as a Bus and Best Case Scenario as a reason to use it later to be town.

Or Shish bussed (and encouraged me to vote) Seph in an effort to look more townie

Any of these options are all on the game if Doop isn't it. I think we should start talking about all of them, start questioning each other, and yes - That does even include me. Grill me hard with all of your questions and I will try the best to answer any and all of them.

Obviously I included the PR's in here because, I don't know how much the Mafia knows, but they don't need to know who's who if they don't w/ the rolecop yet.

 

[Fandangox]

Im sorry Nabe

and Ganbatte, Town-kun

 

[Kantrip]

Maaaan.

I just don't know which type of bussing I buy if it's not Maven/Doop.

Vult - Literally started the wagon's momentum and actively encouraged people to join him on Seph both at the beginning and right before deadline. This would have to be a coordinated and pre-planned hard bus and I find it very unlikely.

Z25, Shish - Both joined due to Vult's encouragement. Both said they didn't necessarily see it (and Shish said he was a bit iffy on Vult's pushiness), but ultimately they both stayed on it the whole time. Z25 more passively and Shish more actively as the Day progressed. I suppose I could see either of these but it's strange to me that they joined the wagon more as sheep to Vult's case to add to the pressure and had an easy back-door to change their read on Seph considering they didn't hard commit to scumreading him. Probably the two most likely of the bunch, though?

Pokechu - This would mean a last second bus when the wagons were tied and Pokechu very easily could have saved his partner by either joining the opposing wagon or just staying out of the thread entirely. One point in favour of this being possible is that Pokechu thought the risk was worth it and that Moydow and him could coast which would line up with the fact that Pokechu defended Moydow when pressure was on her. Considering soup was already onto Moydow Day 1 before the hammer, however, I'd be surprised if Pokechu went for this risky of a play.

Thirdkoopa - This would be some wiiild Day 1 distancing followed by some slick scumplay including getting PRs to claim to him and then not killing them for the added WIFOM. I am not ruling this out, but I want to trust my gut that I don't think the Seph vs Thirdkoopa interactions were SvS and Thirdkoopa has been by far the most proactive in terms of trying to figure things out as of recently.

I've gotta PoE this first because none of these options particularly seem likely to me whereas Maven's slot has nothing disqualifying him and there are some strange interactions between him and Seph.

Vote: Doop

 

[Thirdkoopa]

So, I'll start here. The obvious question of "Assume Dooplissity isn't scum" stands, but, I want to go a bit beyond that

Dooplissity - Where's your head at now that Fandangox has flipped? Assuming the game doesn't end upon your lynch (or hell, you can even argue it, since I know we're going by PoE) what would be your personal reads list?

Z25 - What are you positive makes you more town than the rest of the people on Seph's wagon? I know the arguments for you being Town, but, what makes you stand out? Furthermore, why do you find my theory (one that, keep in mind, I think is unlikely) about you bussing Seph because you knew you wouldn't get along with him unlikable? You were the least active one during the Seph push when we were pushing that if memory serves me correctly.

Pokechu - Why is it that immediately after Night 1, you became disassociated from the game? In a way that almost Scum would do - You were practically considered Cleared Town after Night 1 - A lot of people (my reads list included, which you saw) considered you as cleared town, ergo meaning, you wouldn't be a lynch option until later in the game.

Vult Redux - Why didn't you bus Seph? A lot of how you and Seph personally interacted with each other screams as something that wasn't trying to be a big case as it's clear the Mafia didn't expect it to go anywhere.

Kantrip - Any stance I prove about you wanting to switch to Seph is wine since you would have switched, so, here we go. Why did you immediately vote Nabe after the dayvig firing? Was it because of PoE or was it because of waiting for discussion?

@Shishœ - Same question to Pokechu as it was to you. I know you were less considered town, but you started to disassociate. I can't even remember any plays in particular you've done or you even being around for the Moy push much (I know you were around more than Chu) - You answered my Soup question adequately at least.

i'm at a headache and i'm going to have to re-read a lot; the ISO's in particular.

 

[Kantrip]

Thirdkoopa - Seeing that my read on Moydow was correct bolstered my confidence in the simple answer, which was a Nabe + Moydow scumteam that both tried to save their mate D1. I think I confirmation biased myself into that read a bit when I ISO'd Nabe with those goggles on, but I just thought he was the correct next play.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Kantrip Did you think that everyone else (bar me) was in unison for lynching Nabe, or did you not see the massive pile drive happening on him?

Keep in mind, I didn't want to lynch Nabe just yet because of the faulty BD claim and didn't know what to make of his post.

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip Did you think that everyone else (bar me) was in unison for lynching Nabe, or did you not see the massive pile drive happening on him?

Keep in mind, I didn't want to lynch Nabe just yet because of the faulty BD claim and didn't know what to make of his post.

Well I knew there was some degree of support. With 2 scum dead I wasn't even worried about whether there'd be resistance to lynches or not anymore because if there was there wouldn't be any concern of it being a scummate trying to divert the wagon.

So in a way I was surprised that it was so easy to swing it but it didn't bother me one way or another. I would've pushed more for it if I had to.

It's weird to be playing in a game where I feel like people are just fine with whatever lynch option is proposed, but I'm not complaining. Unless we lose, then I'll be mad that other people didn't pick up where my reads failed lmao