PYP mafia! Game over!

[Thirdkoopa]

what games was moy scum in?

The complete absence of complex reads is puzzling because I always like what she presents

the thing that puzzles me (and I don't blame any of them for this; life gets in the way. That's why I'm saying at least a 24 hour extension would do us a lot of good) about this whole day phase - It's not the fact that our two lynch targets are bad or anything. I like how we were pretty much all in unison early on; Moydow or Maven and pressure Nabe and Soup some. (granted, some of that pressure Soup got was albeit late in the day, and that's partially on me for not writing down what specifically got me off about him)

The difference between this and Day 1 (hang me or Seph) is that... our targets aren't even here to argue with each other or argue with the rest of the thread. It makes the whole thing one big fat null read*

* = the null read being on what they think of each other; not them themselves.

 

[Pokechu]

Soup I see entirely where Nabe is coming from, his (soup) demanor reminded me of how blunt and honest he was during Mario Mafia where he did a claim of vig during the day and was just admitting that he wasn't invested in the game at all, during night he seemed genuine too so that's why I think soup v Nabe is town v town

 

[Pokechu]

Moy was scum in solely mutton mafia

She was a third party threat in GoT, she was active there and willing to get her hands dirty and take risks

 

[Pokechu]

Nabe I'm townreading because of how quizzical he is, he wants reactions and he's making the thread his notebook where he just puts his thoughts in

 

[Thirdkoopa]

hmm

okay, so,maven is your scum read. I'm curious who you think he's scum with if we're to assume Nabe v Soup as TvT

 

[Pokechu]

Fan I've always been a bit unsure of, he seemed like he wanted to understand my stance D1 but it could have been faked, I wanted to talk to him during Night but I never found the time RIP

 

[Pokechu]

1. shishœ
2. Vult Redux
3. Nabe
4. Maven
5. Pokechu
6. ThirdKoopa
7. Moydow
8. Fire Emblemier
9. Fandangox
10. Z25
11. J
12. Sephiroths Masamune
13. Kantrip

 

[Pokechu]

Hmmm assuming I stick to my reads Maven could only be scum chums with Shish, Vult, and Fan

Exactly why I need to do a full game reread but I'll try and piece something together now

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Iunno if giraffelasergun will do a first page update post but it'd be nice, like, in spoilers, something like this:

Spoiler

(11/13)
1. shishoe
2. Vult Redux
3. Nabe
4. Maven
5. Pokechu
6. ThirdKoopa
7. Moydow
8. Soup (replaces Fire Emblemier)
9. Fandangox
10. Z25
11.
12.
13. Kantrip

Dead (2/13)
Sephiroths Masamune Mafia Goon was lynched Day 1!
J Town Jailer was shot Night 1!

 

[giraffelasergun]

I don't know about everyone else, but, I'd love a deadline extension, personally, but I don't think we're going to get one. It's right before the weekend. giraffelasergun Is there any possibility at a 24 hour DE? I hate asking this, but, three of our biggest lynch targets are literally not able to be in here due to IRL obligations. If that wasn't the case I wouldn't ask for it but I feel it's important to at least give it a shot.
"

I'll allow it, but just this once.

Deadline has been extended until 6 PM 10/20/18

@Shishœ Vult Redux #HBC | Nabe Maven89 Pokechu Thirdkoopa Moydow Fandangox Z25 Kantrip

 

[Thirdkoopa]

okay, that takes a load off of my shoulders.

Hey Soup, Moydow, and Maven. Make this awesome and don't make us regret asking for this please <3

To everyone else - same goes for you. I'll tag everyone who hasn't seen it later tonight just so they know there's an extension since some might assume we have no extension.

 

[Maven89]

I'm just a harsh and critical person. Life isn't a easy road bro.

A few things to mention are, you haven't ever cleared yourself up about what you meant. I have yet to see a post where you do. Also, I never went after your vote, what are you talking about? All I said is you have been playing very defensively and I dislike it when people freak out over small interactions like you have done. I feel like you have very poor reading comprehension and I'm starting to think you're dumb or scum. Especially with your many excuses you've given. You give an excuse that you didn't know the roles at first. You gave an excuse that you are always defensive. You just gave an excuse that you just misspoke in the post I quoted.

I’m rereading while waiting for my car to be fixed, I’ll get to my post when I’m at home, but after reading this post for the first time I understand why Seph was lynched. This post was gross

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

#HBC | ѕoup since that tag is missing.

 

[giraffelasergun]

#HBC | ѕoup since that tag is missing.

I couldn't figure out how to do that you must be a wizard

 

[Vult Redux]

Is there anything anyone wants me to weigh in on?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Is there anything anyone wants me to weigh in on?

there's a lot to weigh in on between the four main people of discussion

Even if you've already said your peace and have nothing else to add, when they post, you know we'll have a lot to work with.

 

[Z25]

I'm caught up and read into maven and moy's posts.

I think I have a good read on where to go. But before I specifically post thoughts, any things that I should look at and post my thoughts on?

 

[Kantrip]

I'm happy to finally see some initiative from Nabe. His points on soup look reasonable. I think soup's treatment of me is off, as well. We agreed on Moydow and he talked about Seph's flip giving info to help read me, but then he also claimed Seph's lynch wouldn't give us info and heavily implied he thought Seph was town. I thought it was strange when soup said he doubted Seph vs Koopa was TvT considering his actual stance was that Koopa was scum and Seph was town, specifically. He never seemed to really entertain Seph scum, and when he eventually decided to change his read on Koopa, he decided TvT WAS possible after all and went for a completely different lynch right before deadline.

The part of all this that confuses me is: Why would he switch Koopa to town right before deadline and get off the wagon? That could be what got Seph lynched, and I don't see scum taking the gamble of evening up the wagons like that, especially considering I talked about switching while soup was there.

However, coming in swinging for Maven toDay after promising to hardbody Moydow with me is also weird. Especially cuz he said we mindmelded on Moy after I said I would call her scummier on a Seph scumflip.

I still think Moydow is the play toDay, and imo she should claim. Any strong objections to this?

 

[Z25]

Ok looking through the posts. Moy isn't playing exactly the same as usual, but she isn't playing the same as she did as scum in past games.

I honestly am starting to think Moy is genuinely unable to put as much time in due to life and wouldn't prioritize lynching her yet.

Imo her posts are like Nabe's atm. Just contributing enough to try and contribute and seem active. So it could go either way.

My points towards Maven still stand though.

With the extension I hope all our targets can be more active and we can sort things out better.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm caught up and read into maven and moy's posts.

I think I have a good read on where to go. But before I specifically post thoughts, any things that I should look at and post my thoughts on?

Nabe vs Soup, at least. Though, my post on Soup is a bit fruitless without a response from Soup yet.

Also Soup, apologies if I went a bit too hard on there, just, Seph's posts against Z25 really personally got to me that day.

 

[Z25]

Nabe vs Soup, at least. Though, my post on Soup is a bit fruitless without a response from Soup yet.

Also Soup, apologies if I went a bit too hard on there, just, Seph's posts against Z25 really personally got to me that day.

I'll look over soup vs Nabe and see what may be up then.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I still think Moydow is the play toDay, and imo she should claim. Any strong objections to this?

At this moment in time, I have no problems with Moy being the play, but I don't think it's my #1 play today.

If I had a gun right now, I'd Soup or Maven, personally, but that's because it'd give us more information on the other two while Moy is hard to go by.

Here's a question, especially with Moy: Based on what Moy flips, where do you suggest we go?

 

[Kantrip]

Oh also Koopa I saw you mention something so I just want to reiterate something from D1: I never claimed you vs Seph wasn't TvT. My stance was always that you weren't SvS based on your back-and-forth, but that I scumread both of you to a degree. TvT was still a possibility, I just thought the probability was high of one of you being scum since I found you both scummy to some degree at the time.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

There's definitely some misconstruing happening in part of what I've did, and in situations like this I don't want to sit and create an audience about what I was thinking earlier because it's been explained enough on my part. I know who I want and for me this extension didn't really need to happen

Will however respond to Nabe

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Oh also Koopa I saw you mention something so I just want to reiterate something from D1: I never claimed you vs Seph wasn't TvT. My stance was always that you weren't SvS based on your back-and-forth, but that I scumread both of you to a degree. TvT was still a possibility, I just thought the probability was high of one of you being scum since I found you both scummy to some degree at the time.

Gotcha. I think looking back towards the tail end of that wagon has some answers. I really want to go back and look at that interaction for myself; I'll do so in just a sec.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

There's definitely some misconstruing happening in part of what I've did, and in situations like this I don't want to sit and create an audience about what I was thinking earlier because it's been explained enough on my part. I know who I want and for me this extension didn't really need to happen

Will however respond to Nabe

this extension did need to happen. At the very least, we won't lynch Moy without a claim. Had we, say, entertained what Vult had yesterday, we would have lynched the Town Jailer w/o a claim.

Let me shorten down what I said for you then: My concerns lay in order of Ignoring Everyone Else's Cases (trying to brush them off) > Finding Seph Town > Finding Me Scum

I'm sure you'll answer Finding Seph Town through your posts to Nabe, but, I am highly curious over the everyone else's cases part.

I'm okay with you requoting yourself/trimming it down to the important parts.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Your post says that Koops v. Seph was not Town v. Town in your eyes, but you voted for Moydow an hour later. You said to Kantrip in 493 that thinking of their interaction as TvT was "not productive", which was a half-hour after your initial post. It's true that your Moydow vote came apropos of nothing, but that suggests to me that you wanted not to be on the lynch, which at the time was looking like Koops. Right before your post, Koops suggested that Seph was setting up lynches, and Shish said "just vote Seph, he's scum." Nothing in your posts that whole page suggest to me a reason for your Moydow vote there.


But according to you in post 529 (the post I quoted), information gain from a flip should be black magic. I'm saying that you discredited that idea when it wouldn't have benefited Seph. Of course I agree that you should form conclusions from people's posts, that was the focus of most people saying my Day 0 discussion was useless.


It's just that in the post of yours that I quoted, you seemed to have a direction in mind with Kantrip. Specifically:

Saying that you think that tidbit will become important later (after the Seph flip?) seems like you're saying it will be important for a specific reason.

You're right though, I didn't. I offered an alternative that I felt was more appropriate spice and I came into the thread nearly hours before deadline hit, would it have better for me to commit on either? Probably, but I didn't see it like that and when I made my Seph thought I was initially feeling OK about his tone, but then I had nothing else to show elsewhere. I really really do not like repeating myself, and I feel like SWF meta is this constant bartering phase where I will dish out my reasoning and someone will always tell me it's not enough. This is boring and flat to me: What do you think about Maven/Kantrip? I'm more interested in about what you think about others isntead of me cause I know I'm town and I believe I can convince you from doing what is best for it, which isn't circular logic

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Also, just for the record, Soup, I'm not really interested in saying "that's not good enough" bartering - That's not going to help piece together the puzzle for me. I'm more interested in why you thought their reasoning wasn't worth it enough for you to change the vote, and, I'm willing to accept basically any answer that isn't "They didn't have cases"

 

[Kantrip]

At this moment in time, I have no problems with Moy being the play, but I don't think it's my #1 play today.

If I had a gun right now, I'd Soup or Maven, personally, but that's because it'd give us more information on the other two while Moy is hard to go by.

Here's a question, especially with Moy: Based on what Moy flips, where do you suggest we go?

I don't think Moydow and soup are scum together. I think in a situation where one scummate is going down, it doesn't make sense for this hypothetical team to have soup put Moydow as his biggest scumread if they're about to head into Day 2 down their third mate already. For that reason, I would feel better about soup on a Moydow scum flip. I would probably look at Nabe first, and then Maven.
On a town flip, I would look at soup more.

I also have in my notes that Maven and Nabe are unlikely partners. I think that was because of Seph's readslist having them both in solid town next to each other and I find it unlikely he did that with both his mates. I also think there were interactions between Nabe and Maven that made me doubt they were scum together. For that reason, a Maven lynch kind of does with Nabe what a Moydow lynch does with soup.

Where I'll be lost is if scum isn't contained within those four.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

My position on Kantrip is not developed to satisfaction, it's purely gut unlike Moy/Maven. I have nothing I want to present towards it and instead I am keeping cursory glance, and like I said before (lol) I definitely wanted to hear opinions about him that would be willing to provide insight. A lot of people keep saying "why don't you have a case" or "why don't you have this thing" but that's not how things actually work, least not from where I'm standing.

Also, just for the record, Soup, I'm not really interested in saying "that's not good enough" bartering - That's not going to help piece together the puzzle for me. I'm more interested in why you thought their reasoning wasn't worth it enough for you to change the vote, and, I'm willing to accept basically any answer that isn't "They didn't have cases"

Fake pressure, sometimes convienient lies can lead to conveinient truths. I wanted to keep you on your toes because thats what pressuring is all about unless you want me to outright say "I AM PRESSURING YOU FOR INFORMATION THIRDKOOPA DO NOT BE ALARMED IM NOT REALLY SCUMREADING YOU ANYMORE".

 

[Kantrip]

I am with Nabe and wanting to know what you meant when you said Seph's flip would give insight on reading me.

Also when you said you doubted Seph vs Koopa was TvT, did you really mean it? Or was that part of the fake pressure too? Did you actually think they were both town the whole time?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I am with Nabe and wanting to know what you meant when you said Seph's flip would give insight on reading me.

Also when you said you doubted Seph vs Koopa was TvT, did you really mean it? Or was that part of the fake pressure too? Did you actually think they were both town the whole time?

I just..feel like you were fence-sitting and there are some inconsistencies but the problem lies in the fact you acknowledge it, and I'm pretty sure if I'm reading this thread correctly you've been confronted on it. I don't think you can (or will) be the play therefore I'm priortizing, and right now I have a semi-case sitting on Moydow with a tinge of Maven. It's legitimately just 'we'll get to it when we have to' unless it somehow becomes absolutely necessary that we do

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Fake pressure, sometimes convienient lies can lead to conveinient truths. I wanted to keep you on your toes because thats what pressuring is all about unless you want me to outright say "I AM PRESSURING YOU FOR INFORMATION THIRDKOOPA DO NOT BE ALARMED IM NOT REALLY SCUMREADING YOU ANYMORE".

Good enough. Thank you for the clarification. I have no interest in pursuing this more at the moment but that may change.

Kantrip Agreed on Nabe/Maven and Soup/Moydow. The biggest headache if scum isn't contained in those four is it means either A) there was a busser or B) you and Fandangox are scum (which I'm also doubting).

I don't want to start crossing too many possibilities off the list, but, for now I think we can cross Nabe/Maven and Soup/Moydow as our last two off the list.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I did doubt Seph v Koops was TvT and I stuck to it, and if the following question is: "well why didnt you just vote Seph then" and its cause I didn't? I was OK with making my Moydow vote and letting Seph/Koops sort itself out and piecing it together afterward

 

[Vult Redux]

I still think Moydow is the play toDay, and imo she should claim. Any strong objections to this?

I don't.

The fact that Mow has like 7 posts in this game makes me feel especially comfortable getting rid of him D2. At least with Nabe and Soup we can read into their content and reassess D3. Mow probably will not have any significant developments any time soon.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

moy claims:
4 - (Kantrip, Vult Redux, Thirdkoopa, Soup)

moy doesn't claim/should NOT be the play (vote this if you 100% think Moy shouldn't be the play):
0

not voting: (not putting moy on here)
6 - Shishoe, Nabe, Maven, Pokechu, Fandangox, Z25

 

[Z25]

moy claims:
4 - (Kantrip, Vult Redux, Thirdkoopa, Soup)

moy doesn't claim/should NOT be the play (vote this if you 100% think Moy shouldn't be the play):
0

not voting: (not putting moy on here)
6 - Shishoe, Nabe, Maven, Pokechu, Fandangox, Z25

Well for now you can put me down towards not leaning towards moy.

I don’t think a full conclusion can be reached till we have more responses though

 

[Kantrip]

I did doubt Seph v Koops was TvT and I stuck to it, and if the following question is: "well why didnt you just vote Seph then" and its cause I didn't? I was OK with making my Moydow vote and letting Seph/Koops sort itself out and piecing it together afterward

I'll be honest, I thought you had Seph as town at the end of Day 1. Why were you asking people what would happen on a Seph town flip? You were actively trying to convince people that the Seph lynch wouldn't give us information, even though you yourself said that it would help read me, at the very least. And if what you say here is true, you should have had Seph as scum when you decided Koopa is town. I am not concerned with your vote. I'm just trying to understand where your thoughts were at that time because I don't understand why you went
1. Seph vs Koopa is TvS
2. I think Koopa is Scum, therefore Seph is Town
3. I'm changing my mind on Koopa and think he is Town, but Seph vs Koopa is still TvS
4. I don't think lynching Seph gives us information, let's lynch someone completely different

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'll be honest, I thought you had Seph as town at the end of Day 1. Why were you asking people what would happen on a Seph town flip? You were actively trying to convince people that the Seph lynch wouldn't give us information, even though you yourself said that it would help read me, at the very least. And if what you say here is true, you should have had Seph as scum when you decided Koopa is town. I am not concerned with your vote. I'm just trying to understand where your thoughts were at that time because I don't understand why you went
1. Seph vs Koopa is TvS
2. I think Koopa is Scum, therefore Seph is Town
3. I'm changing my mind on Koopa and think he is Town, but Seph vs Koopa is still TvS
4. I don't think lynching Seph gives us information, let's lynch someone completely different

1. Yes
2. Initially yes, but interacting with him on my own made me second-guess
3. Yes
4. That's not what I was implying, I was trying to goad Koops which in hindsight sure I was saying it but really that's up to you whether you believe me or not

 

[Kantrip]

Okay, I'll humour you. Again, I'm not concerned with the fact that your vote wasn't on Seph. Mine wasn't either. It's just that your words and actions both imply you didn't want to lynch him because you thought he was town, even after the point where you got off Koopa. If what you say is true, and you were just goading Koops, then did you actually think Seph was scum once you changed your Koopa read? Again, not interested in your vote. Just: Did you think Seph was a good lynch?