Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[N. Onymous]

I wouldn't say that. Little Mac got a reboot on the Wii after his appearance in CR, and Takamaru ended up getting some exposure here and there (not a reboot, but it was still something). I don't think Captain Rainbow really doomed anyone. I was actually quite happy to see Lip in Captain Rainbow, as I found it to be a nice tribute.

I don't mean to argue, but Punch-Out Wii likely wasn't even conceived at the time of CR's release, and there haven't been any new Nazo no Murasamejou games in... ever. Remember, the whole theme of the game was "forgotten Nintendo characters". If you were in the game and your name wasn't Birdo, it was - for the forseeable future - a death sentence.

 

[Kapus]

Murasame Castle still hasn't gotten a new game yet, but it's still showing up here and there in Nintendo stuff, and many people actually see a sequel to be likely in the near future.

I'm not sure what your argument is in regards to Punch Out exactly. Little Mac appeared in Captain Rainbow and then later on got another installment in his series, showing that he's definitely still not dead. How's that a Death Sentence?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm not sure what your argument is in regards to Punch Out exactly. Little Mac appeared in Captain Rainbow and then later on got another installment in his series, showing that he's definitely still not dead. How's that a Death Sentence?

From what I've read, Nintendo actually showed interest on developing new Punch-Out around Wii's release, which means a new game planned for Mac pre-dated quite before development of CR. (I guess 2007?)
They also gave the idea for a developer that would best do well to the series' theme and gameplay concept, who also was developer from the West (Next Level Games).

IMO, it's more about if Nintendo has still interest on a series - so yeah, I think I agree that being in CR was basically a mark that Nintendo has no more interest to you (barring the "notable" NPCs, like Crazy Tracy or Mappo).
In anycase, the more apparent point is that CR might give some indications on what series Nintendo has decided to leave completely to dust, especially now that I found out that Mac got a new installment for the initial interest for a new Punch-Out-game!!

Man, doesn't that make Captain Rainbow every way an OPPOSITE of Smash Bros and it's popularity? I mean, a game that stayed Japan-only, bombed big-time, is pretty underrated, and has the characters labelled as "dead/forgotten/unviable to sell"... that's quite a feat.

 

[N. Onymous]

If playable is winning, and assist trophy is consolation, then wouldn't that make Captain Rainbow the booby prize? Poor Lip. : (

 

[LipFlare]

Hello again!

Man, doesn't that make Captain Rainbow every way an OPPOSITE of Smash Bros and it's popularity?

Yes it is! I thought of it also but it sliped my mind to write my reasoning down here.

At least will the not-so-little-Mac trophy inevitably refer to Captain Rainbow -a game which wasn't released in US/EU. And those who want to know what or who Captain Rainbow is may stumble across Lip (and her series[?]).

But who will be the "Captain Rainbow" of Nick-Captain Rainbow? Heh maybe Nintendo invented the graveyard series/genre Oo? Captain Rainbow as a virtual gravedigger?! *shudder* it gave me a chill.

Enogh of my silliness! I think that Captain Rainbow didn't handed out some "certifcates of the-forgotten-VGC"! I think also that Captain Rainbow was just a project of some apprentice developer from Nintendo right after the blueprints: Has a story and has (random) characters sponsored by Nintendo! I try to accept Captian Rainbow... somehow.

Well so far my thoughts again...^^ Have a nice time everyone!

LipFlare

 

[Kapus]

From what I've read, Nintendo actually showed interest on developing new Punch-Out around Wii's release, which means a new game planned for Mac pre-dated quite before development of CR. (I guess 2007?)
They also gave the idea for a developer that would best do well to the series' theme and gameplay concept, who also was developer from the West (Next Level Games).

That's interesting. Thanks for that bit of info.

But I still don't see how this shows that Nintendo doesn't have any more interest in the series. I can agree that they were showing off series that they had currently left in the dust, but I don't think that really means that they intended to doom those series forever or that they completely lost all interest in them. I mean, as you just said, Mac had a game planned before he even appeared as a character in Captain Rainbow, and Takamaru is still getting exposure and appearances here and there in recent times. Maybe I'm missing something, and if I am, do point out.

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm just grasping at straws here, but Captain Rainbow came out after Planet Puzzle League, which I firmly believe is the game that put the PDP series on the deep freeze we're having to slog through today. It's sort of like Paper Mario Sticker Star, in a sense. On its own merits it's perfectly fine, if flawed, but longtime fans savaged the thing for dropping something which made the series memorable in the first place. For Sticker Star it was removing the character development and simpliying the battle system, for Planet Puzzle League it was floatying up the physics engine and ditching the adorable fairy characters in favor of bland generic aesthetics. (Just because it works for Tetris...) One could argue that's half the appeal gone right there, especially in Japan - the panels didn't even pop ("pon") anymore, making the whole thing one big misnomer just to rub salt in the wound. It's not hard to imagine some people flat out refusing to buy the game because of the visual design.

Of course, it may have been in development before, and probably was, so what do I know.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So found Puzzle League DS on my beloved long-time budget electronics store. Bought it too for 15 €.
Funnier is that I remember also getting Tetris DS here for 10 € and Animal Crossing WW for 5 €.

Still supporting the series this way, I guess?

 

[FlareHabanero]

By the way folks, you can always try pushing for Lip as DLC.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

By the way folks, you can always try pushing for Lip as DLC.

Eeeh.... but would Sakurai and his team NOT want to use resources on DLC many wouldn't even bother buying because it's a character they don't know about (the majority of casual audience of Nintendo-fans) or would see as taking a "spot" for DLC?

And even then, I think pushing her for DLC wouldn't be as big of a support as say, more popular characters being shafted if the Gematsu-leak is any correction?

Fine.
I'm up for it.

 

[Sigran101]

I've always thought Lip would be a stupid choice, but I don't know much about her, and I don't want to be that guy who just randomly detracts characters, so I'd like to learn more about lip. What exactly does she do?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Like Dixie Kong and Alexandra (girl from Eternal Darkness), Lip has earned her place among the Nintendo female reps.

Even though her Lip Stick is being used as an item, Lip's puzzling moveset contributes a moveset that would be totally unique.

 

[Kapus]

I've always thought Lip would be a stupid choice, but I don't know much about her, and I don't want to be that guy who just randomly detracts characters, so I'd like to learn more about lip. What exactly does she do?

Umm...read the opening post of this topic?

And why would you think a character would be a stupid choice if you don't know much about them?

 

[N. Onymous]

I've always thought Lip would be a stupid choice, but I don't know much about her, and I don't want to be that guy who just randomly detracts characters, so I'd like to learn more about lip. What exactly does she do?

This is why we go out and learn things, friend. ^^

Lip would:

• Bring a fresh, unique play style to the world of Smash Bros.
• Add some much-needed female representation; even the fourth game is still skewed heavily in favor of males. Of the Gematsu roster (discounting Mii Fighter), assuming all Brawl veterans except Pokemon Trainer and Snake to return, counting Chorus Boys as one character, and counting the Ice Climbers, Villagers, and Wii Fit Trainers seperately, the fourth game pre-DLC has a 19:5 ratio. Lip wouldn't fix it per se, but she'd help to even it out.
• Represent Nintendo's puzzle series, which have lacked a representative ever since Dr. Mario was cut.
• Serve as a good role model to potential younger players.
• Help spread recognition of her home series outside of Japan.
• Most importantly, kick plenty of butt and look adorable doing it!

 

[Sigran101]

This is why we go out and learn things, friend. ^^

Lip would:

• Bring a fresh, unique play style to the world of Smash Bros.
• Add some much-needed female representation; even the fourth game is still skewed heavily in favor of males. Of the Gematsu roster (discounting Mii Fighter), assuming all Brawl veterans except Pokemon Trainer and Snake to return, counting Chorus Boys as one character, and counting the Ice Climbers, Villagers, and Wii Fit Trainers seperately, the fourth game pre-DLC has a 19:5 ratio. Lip wouldn't fix it per se, but she'd help to even it out.
• Represent Nintendo's puzzle series, which have lacked a representative ever since Dr. Mario was cut.
• Serve as a good role model to potential younger players.
• Help spread recognition of her home series outside of Japan.
• Most importantly, kick plenty of butt and look adorable doing it!

Sounds reasonable. What would her moveset be?

 

[N. Onymous]

There are all sorts of excellent movesets on the second post. You can take your pick, but I think between the five of them the Create-a-Smash one is my favorite. (Something for Project M to consider, maybe? ^^; )

 

[Sigran101]

After reading the OP here, I think I've decided I want Lip in the game! Unfortunately, she seems unlikely due to the lip's stick item returning, but here's hoping!

 

[N. Onymous]

Lip's chances are admittedy pretty low right now. Thankfully, the most reputable leak around (Gematsu) seems to indicate DLC characters, so if we're really lucky, we just might get a cute little fairy princess asskicker after all. If not, well, there's always Project M.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think Lip could be a great, AT, perhaps we will be very fortunate in that department!!

I don't think the stick deconfirms her (we had the screwball as an item in the past, as well as the blaster, even though it was a smash item technically), so that does make it any more or less of an item. Home run bat, a few other items fall into this category.

But I think Lip would be on the starting roster, not hidden (though, maybe not), and that makes me think she is unlikely.

I'm still not on the support list...

 

[| Kailex |]

Support list wasnt updated for a while, well, as long as you know that youre supporting lip

 

[N. Onymous]

It's still nice to know how many of us there are. I know there's plenty - Lip is and likely always will be one of the more popular suggestions for SSB, although not quite as mega popular as Ridley or K. Rool - but knowing who's who is always good. It also lets me know who to recruit for Operation Save Lip once I get that started.

 

[Furil]

I made some adjustments to the texture of the Lip model that was posted a few pages back. Hope it's not too off topic, but I didn't know where else to post it.
If I knew anything about modeling I'd love to touch it up here and there. It's really good as it is, but the head shape looks a tad off to me.

 

[Kapus]

The head shape is a little weird, yes, but the texture changes look neat. Thanks for showing!

Please keep us posted!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Nice progress! May you always keep us updated on this.

 

[TCRhade]

I made some adjustments to the texture of the Lip model that was posted a few pages back. Hope it's not too off topic, but I didn't know where else to post it.
If I knew anything about modeling I'd love to touch it up here and there. It's really good as it is, but the head shape looks a tad off to me.

Mind sending me that texture? I'm a moveset hacker on Kitty Corp who could use it.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I made some adjustments to the texture of the Lip model that was posted a few pages back. Hope it's not too off topic, but I didn't know where else to post it.
If I knew anything about modeling I'd love to touch it up here and there. It's really good as it is, but the head shape looks a tad off to me.

It almost looks like this came straight out from a Melee Trophy O.o

 

[N. Onymous]

The only complaints I really have with the model are that her forehead is too small, her ponytail could stand to be larger and "poofier" (go up high and have a gradual curve to the tuft at the end instead of hanging straight down, like here), and the daisy brooch looks upside-down. Everything else is really, really good for amateur work.

 

[Marakatu]

I wish Bayonetta had a Lip outfit in the Wii U version of Bayonetta 1.

I guess nobody else liked this idea? *walks away whistling*

 

[Freduardo]

Birdo was in Captain Rainbow as well as Little Mac.

And I'm sure she'll be a fight in every mario game with rpg elements (mario rpg, paper mario, mario and luigi). As well as get to appear in another mario sports game or even (shudder) a yoshi game at some point.

Lip'd be cool and I don't think her item counts as a deconfirm. I still don't think she's got a good shot of making it in the game though.

 

[Furil]

The only complaints I really have with the model are that her forehead is too small, her ponytail could stand to be larger and "poofier" (go up high and have a gradual curve to the tuft at the end instead of hanging straight down, like here), and the daisy brooch looks upside-down. Everything else is really, really good for amateur work.

The ponytail goes with Peach's bones for her hair right now. So in-game it looks really weird anyway and kinda digs into her back.
I just hoping that now since we have a model base, it's possible to make a mod for her. With attacks and stuff. I could be wishing a bit too big, though.

 

[TCRhade]

The ponytail goes with Peach's bones for her hair right now. So in-game it looks really weird anyway and kinda digs into her back.
I just hoping that now since we have a model base, it's possible to make a mod for her. With attacks and stuff. I could be wishing a bit too big, though.

Eh, not quite. I'm having someone re-rig her and *I* will use it as a base. Using moveset ideas from THIS THREAD.

 

[Deleted member]

Aloha everyone.

The only complaints I really have with the model are that her forehead is too small, her ponytail could stand to be larger and "poofier" (go up high and have a gradual curve to the tuft at the end instead of hanging straight down, *link had to be removed*), and the daisy brooch looks upside-down. Everything else is really, really good for amateur work.

Well, I figured I should try to explain these things here. Let's see:
The forehead isn't smaller than the the original Captain Rainbow model (see below), so blame Nintendo for that, haha.
As for the ponytail, I agree it could stand to go up more, but the base for this is from the pepper from Super Mario Sunshine, which is really, really low poly, making it impossible. Sadly it was the best base I could find.
As for the flower on her chest, I took her in-game background pic as a reference and to me it looked like it was upside down, kinda embarassing. Well, my fault for not looking at other reference pictures, and I'm fully to blame for this. Fixing this should be a 5 second job though (not counting how long 3ds Max takes to start).

So, I hope this kinda cleared a few things up. Well, honestly, I'm kinda surprised people even like that model, as it was just copy + pasted from a lot of other stuff and doesn't even look good. But then again, the Captain Rainbow model is pretty ugly, too. Anyway, I'm actually glad people are working on bringin her into Smash and wish them good luck. Maybe that'll even inspire other people to create a better model of Lip, because there are quite a few talented modelers in the SSB community.

(Sorry for having to do it this way, but I can't post links, due to the 10 post requirement.)

 

[TCRhade]

Ugh. Hideous. What were they thinking? D: That barely looks like Lip at all. XDDD

Anyway! I'll be sure to post progress when I get the model back and start her. Thanks so much, Taigiry.

 

[Marakatu]

I just noticed that Captain Rainbow Lip have different-sized earrings.

 

[N. Onymous]

Meh, still cute but I don't really like the ears. The stylized art of the game wasn't really kind to her, was it?

 

[Deleted member]

Ugh. Hideous. What were they thinking? D: That barely looks like Lip at all. XDDD

Meh, still cute but I don't really like the ears. The stylized art of the game wasn't really kind to her, was it?

The sad thing is, there are still way worse models. Compared to, let's say... Devil, Birdo or Little Mac (slim), Lip looks pretty good. Seriously, you always see fat Little Mac, who looks a bit funny, but the slim one is downright terrifying. And the bad thing is, this game has the only 3d models for quite a few characters (Lip, Hikari, Takamaru, etc), but they look really out of place in SSBB, so even a well done import would be ugly.

I just noticed that Captain Rainbow Lip have different-sized earrings.

And different sized bracelets, ears, jewels in her hair. Basically, the entire Captain Rainbow style is like that.

Anyway! I'll be sure to post progress when I get the model back and start her. Thanks so much, Taigiry.

I think we should thank you for actually making her playable, haha. But yeah, looking forward to it.


Anyway, with all the badmouthing Captain Rainbow, at least it showed us that Lip can do more than just letting it rain blocks:

She transformed her own house into that living monstrosity. Granted, her spell (whatever it was anyway) backfired because of her hay fever, but point is, she can actually do more than dropping blocks. But seeing as it's Captain Rainbow, how much of that is true is up for debate, I suppose. Ah well, just felt like pointing it out.

 

[N. Onymous]

Everything is canon in Smash Bros., so I don't think we have a lot to worry about.

 

[smashkirby]

Hey everyone! So what do you think about Lip being our reveal on Monday? I know the chances are a little slim for her, but at least, let's all be nice here, and give the poor girl a fighting chance, okay? Like I've said before, I know I'm sounding silly and desperate, but I won't give up on her till I see the full roster!

 

[TCRhade]

If Lip is the one revealed Monday, I will soil myself. Figuratively, of course.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

If Lip's shown in Monday...