Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[Quillion]

I was thinking that I would like the other fairies from Panel de Pon to be Lip's alts similarly to how the Koopalings are Bowser Jr.'s alts.

Maybe we should start asking Nintendo to bring the original Panel de Pon (with languages localized) to the Wii U eShop outside of Japan?

What!? That would never work. Lip's friends all have different powers from her, so that wouldn't make sense in the slightest.

 

[Souldin]

I, on the otherhand, shall keep my hopes up regarding Lip, the fairies, and the Puzzle League series as a whole. Sure, things look bleak for them now, but the Panel De Pon series does have a 20th anniversary coming up, and I just recently checked the Pokémon Puzzle Challenge community on Miiverse... tons of people are putting Miiverse pics up of the Panel De Pon mode accessible within it. For all we know, Nintendo might take notice of this interest for Panel De Pon.

In any case, given next year is the 20th anniversary of Panel De Pon, I've been pondering making various videos on the subject of Panel De Pon at some point. For instance, one idea I had was to make a video covering the history of Lip, as well as the Puzzle League series. It's currently just a thought, but making such videos might serve well in informing others of the Panel De Pon cast and the Puzzle League series.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Puzzle League isn't as much of a demand as the demand for Earthbound to release in America.
I doubt they would listen on Miiverse unless it was extremely demanded.

 

[Souldin]

Puzzle League isn't as much of a demand as the demand for Earthbound to release in America.
I doubt they would listen on Miiverse unless it was extremely demanded.

I know it's not being demanded per say, but the fact that so many people are accessing a mode that is only accessible through a code and posting about their enjoyment of said Panel De Pon mode is something worth noting. It might not have a massive impact, but it is still something that can come across as noticeable. Along with other factors, it could encourage a Puzzle League game starring the Panel De Pon cast or further recognition of the Panel De Pon cast, in years to come or much later down the line.

 

[Arcadenik]

What!? That would never work. Lip's friends all have different powers from her, so that wouldn't make sense in the slightest.

But they all still do the same thing... swapping panels, clearing panels, dropping garbage blocks... really, their magic would be functionally same but aesthetically different In the context of Smash moves and hitboxes.

 

[continuityOfficer]

What!? That would never work. Lip's friends all have different powers from her, so that wouldn't make sense in the slightest.

You could say the same about to koopalings, but if you find a unifier (Clown Car for Koopa, or Blocks for Fairies) then you're good

 

[loganhogan]

What!? That would never work. Lip's friends all have different powers from her, so that wouldn't make sense in the slightest.

I'd suggest that we avoid arguments like these, just because we can't think of a way to make it work doesn't mean the man can't. As long as there's a unifier, as someone previously stated, then it could work.

You know who else would work that well Wonder Red

 

[Quillion]

You could say the same about to koopalings, but if you find a unifier (Clown Car for Koopa, or Blocks for Fairies) then you're good

The only reason Koopalings-as-Bowser Jr. worked was because they let their vehicle do the fighting.

Other-fairies-as-Lip wouldn't work because their powers are all different.

• Lip controls flowers
• Windy controls air
• Sherbet controls ice
• Thiana controls trees
• Ruby controls crystals
• Elias controls river water
• Flare controls fire
• Neris controls sea water
• Selene controls crescent blades

Limiting Lip's moveset to being purely panel-based wouldn't work either considering her flower abilities already have an established effect.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Man, I haven't posted here in ages. I'm glad to see everyone is still hanging around though!

20th anniversary eh? That'll make two 20th's next year. I really hope IS will show Panel de Pon some love, eventually.
Maybe if we spammed them about it.

 

[continuityOfficer]

The only reason Koopalings-as-Bowser Jr. worked was because they let their vehicle do the fighting.

Other-fairies-as-Lip wouldn't work because their powers are all different.

• Lip controls flowers
• Windy controls air
• Sherbet controls ice
• Thiana controls trees
• Ruby controls crystals
• Elias controls river water
• Flare controls fire
• Neris controls sea water
• Selene controls crescent blades

Limiting Lip's moveset to being purely panel-based wouldn't work either considering her flower abilities already have an established effect.

but, that doesn't need to be their focus. If instead of making it so Lip controls flowers, we make the move set entirely based around her games mechanics, then its possible

 

[AustarusIV]

I'm all for seeing Lip and the Panel de Pon fairies make a comeback through Smash. I'm not sure if I made it clear in this thread before, because this isn't my first time posting here.

She's my go-to retro candidate for the next Smash game! I don't think she'll be playable through DLC, sadly.

 

[N. Onymous]

Well, certainly not if they didn't even see fit to give her a trophy, despite having an existing 3D model and everything.

During my talks with her on Messenger, Kapus has mentioned that Lip is in some weird sort of limbo where she's relatively unknown, only really beloved inside of Panel de Pon's small-ish fanbase, and possibly not old enough to be a retro (assuming here that "retro" means "at least 20 years old", meaning Lip and PDP will only start qualifying next year). To me, it seems the only way we can really fix that is through word-of-mouth, unfortunately.

 

[ChronoBound]

During my talks with her on Messenger, Kapus has mentioned that Lip is in some weird sort of limbo where she's relatively unknown, only really beloved inside of Panel de Pon's small-ish fanbase, and possibly not old enough to be a retro (assuming here that "retro" means "at least 20 years old", meaning Lip and PDP will only start qualifying next year). To me, it seems the only way we can really fix that is through word-of-mouth, unfortunately.

Fun fact: Panel de Pon is now older than Ice Climber was when they were considered retro for Melee. Panel de Pon is now basically as old as the original Kid Icarus was when Pit was confirmed for Brawl in 2006.

Lip is definitely retro at this point.

Really, what Lip has going against her is the fact that she has not had a proper role in her franchise (I am really counting Nintendo Puzzle Collection as her last appearance in the series, even though Furil is technically different, she is practically Lip in everything but name, especially considering how even Furil's art is labelled as being Lip in Brawl), in over 10 years. Also, the last proper game in her franchise was released in 2007, and the last new release in general in 2009 (but that was just a stripped down port of Panel de Pon DS).

Lip needs exposure in her own franchise again. A 3DSWare Panel de Pon title should definitely be feasible. With Wifi connection being taken down, a new Panel de Pon game with online features has to be made.

Keep in mind too, that we did see a new release in the series for the franchise's 10-anniversary (Dr. Mario & Panel de Pon for the GBA in late 2005), so a 3DSware title in time for the 20th-anniversary should be a possibility.

Also, I find it amusing that the the proto-type for Panel de Pon GB was hidden within Pokemon Puzzle Challenge after all these years. Its amusing to hear about long kept secrets in games. I guess technically Lip has made an international appearance now. Nobody tell NOA or else they might pull Pokemon Puzzle Challenge off the 3DS Virtual Console.

 

[Kapus]

Really, what Lip has going against her is the fact that she has not had a proper role in her franchise (I am really counting Nintendo Puzzle Collection as her last appearance in the series, even though Furil is technically different, she is practically Lip in everything but name, especially considering how even Furil's art is labelled as being Lip in Brawl), in over 10 years. Also, the last proper game in her franchise was released in 2007, and the last new release in general in 2009 (but that was just a stripped down port of Panel de Pon DS).

This is basically the main issue I had in mind. Lip herself is old and hasn't appeared in ages, but her series itself has been updating up until 2009 or so, so her series itself doesn't really seem "old".

The reason why I fear for Lip as a "retro" candidate is that so far all of Smash's retro characters, even in this latest release, come from the NES era or earlier. Lip herself is technically old (although her series isn't) but I'm not sure if Sakurai would choose her as a "retro" type character. Considering Furil as Lip's latest appearance makes her chance of being chosen seem a little bit more shakey, as Nintendo Puzzle Collection wasn't that long ago.

 

[ChronoBound]

This is basically the main issue I had in mind. Lip herself is old and hasn't appeared in ages, but her series itself has been updating up until 2009 or so, so her series itself doesn't really seem "old".

The reason why I fear for Lip as a "retro" candidate is that so far all of Smash's retro characters, even in this latest release, come from the NES era or earlier. Lip herself is technically old (although her series isn't) but I'm not sure if Sakurai would choose her as a "retro" type character. Considering Furil as Lip's latest appearance makes her chance of being chosen seem a little bit more shakey, as Nintendo Puzzle Collection wasn't that long ago.

I consider the closest analog to Lip to be Little Mac. Of Punch-Out's five games, in only two of them is the main protagonist distinctively Little Mac. Like Panel de Pon, the series is very old (it preceded all of Nintendo's franchises with the sole exception of Mario, DK, and G&W), yet the franchise at the same time was not quite retro (up until Punch-Out Wii, the last installment was Super Punch-Out SNES, which was released in 1994 in the West and 1998 in Japan).

It was not until the release and success of Punch-Out Wii that Little Mac finally made the cut for Smash 4.

Potentially, Nintendo could release Panel de Pon on mobile phones with the fairy motif to captivate a casual female audience that is typically enthralled with quick pick-up-and-play puzzle games, and that would give her potentially a lot of exposure. A 3DSWare title would be successful for sure as well, but I 3DSWare titles generally have a rather low ceiling to what they can aspire to sales wise.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

This thread's still goin' active, I'm happily surprised!

I do really wonder what IS will do PDP during it's anniversary. Personally I think they found much better success from Pushmo/Pullblox (ironically having a protagonist styled after Mario's name and colors), so trying to bring back PDP with so much uncertainty would feel more of a loss than a gain and more of pandering to vocal minority of it's hardcore fans. So I don't want to get my hopes up.

Heck, it might be one of other reasons why I didn't bother looking much to anything PDP-related since months because the interest to the series never getting any return from actual developers.

EDIT: Also to N.O I'm kinda bummed also by Captain Rainbow getting only something related to the actual fighter in Smash (Mac) and rest are skipped for it's favour (heck, Mac's theme from CR is in Boxing Ring, lol). But I'm not even minding it anymore because like I said above, nothing in Nintendo is really wanting to do anything with PDP aside from rereleases which has me just put my interests to something else... for the time being. Or forever. IDK.

 

[N. Onymous]

Sooner or later IS will do something with Panel de Pon again (I don't think Pushmo is that huge either, actually). They did say they were interested in reviving their older series recently, after all. Just don't get your hopes up for anything, that way you'll be more surprised if something happens and less dejected if it doesn't.

Leaving the hidden Panel de Pon GB mode in Puzzle Challenge is one of the best possible things that could have happened in recent times, to be quite honest. Not only does it give me an opportunity to spam drawings of Lip in the community, its a good way to help introduce people to the series. Maybe if we're vocal enough, we'll catch some dev's eye.

 

[N. Onymous]

I visited the Pokémon Puzzle Challenge Miiverse community and dropped this off:

Link to post.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

You can put me down as a supporter.

 

[N. Onymous]

I don't think here is the right place to put it either. It's almost completely off-topic. (Just because the butchered localized version was dubbed "Tetris Attack" doesn't mean... : P)

 

[AEMehr]

oh my god look at what i just found

im really feeling these feels

 

[Kapus]

Miiverse is definitely the best thing to happen to Lip in recent years. This is precious.

 

[ChronoBound]

oh my god look at what i just found

im really feeling these feels

That reminds me of this video that a Panel de Pon fan posted on GameFAQs a few years back:

Its pretty awful in my opinion though (the video).

 

[AEMehr]

That reminds me of this video that a Panel de Pon fan posted on GameFAQs a few years back:

Its pretty awful in my opinion though (the video).

I've seen this. This is probably because it sort of clashes the both franchises' art styles. It doesn't really look good because of it.

 

[N. Onymous]

Now that you mention it, that's another thing about Tetris Attack that kind of bugs me. The Western-styled Mario characters clash pretty badly with Panel de Pon's scenery. Lip (Yoshi) and Ruby (Flying Wiggler)'s stages were redrawn, but everyone else is pretty visibly out of place against the dreamlike backgrounds. It's worst on Flare and Seren's stages, but it's noticeable on all of them.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Now that you mention it, that's another thing about Tetris Attack that kind of bugs me. The Western-styled Mario characters clash pretty badly with Panel de Pon's scenery. Lip (Yoshi) and Ruby (Flying Wiggler)'s stages were redrawn, but everyone else is pretty visibly out of place against the dreamlike backgrounds. It's worst on Flare and Seren's stages, but it's noticeable on all of them.

Its funny because I never really noticed it before, but I clearly noticed how all of the music and stages (except Lip and Yoshi's stage/theme, and Ruby/Flying Wiggler's stage) were identical between versions, and it looks very annoying. Plus, the "World Map" doesn't look anything at all like Yoshi's Island in Tetris Attack.

 

[Kapus]

The most jarring thing is obviously Lip's Lilly Palace still being present in Yoshi's variation of the game.

 

[N. Onymous]

The most jarring thing is obviously Lip's Lilly Palace still being present in Yoshi's variation of the game.

Yeah, I played Tetris Attack first so I had noooo idea what that pink thing in the water was supposed to be. But after I played Panel de Pon (and fell in love with it!), it all made sense.

It actually kind of makes me mad that they'd leave that in. It's like a reminder of what we could have had but didn't and never will.

 

[TheJukeBox]

I thought I was already supporting Lip. Guess not. Please put my name down!

 

[N. Onymous]

Merry Christmas, everyone.

 

[Ultra*HappyCharge]

ADD ME TO THE SUPPORTERS LIST PLEASE XD Would really love Lip to be included in the next Smash XD

 

[N. Onymous]

What probably bugs me the most about the Wii U Smash Bros. is that while Panel de Pon doesn't really have any new representation or mentions, Tetris Attack does (there's a bit of trivia about the puzzle games Yoshi has been in). It feels like neglect almost, purposeful or otherwise.

 

[continuityOfficer]

What probably bugs me the most about the Wii U Smash Bros. is that while Panel de Pon doesn't really any new representation or mentions, Tetris Attack does (there's a bit of trivia about the puzzle games Yoshi has been in). It feels like purposeful neglect almost.

There are a couple franchises like that. I mean, i'm not even a fan of Golden Sun, but for there to not even be an Isaac Trophy let alone an assist trophy) is kind of odd.

 

[JaidynReiman]

There are a couple franchises like that. I mean, i'm not even a fan of Golden Sun, but for there to not even be an Isaac Trophy let alone an assist trophy) is kind of odd.

...even though for some reason Golden Sun has two music tracks... That really doesn't make an awful lot of sense at all...

 

[N. Onymous]

Like I said, the new games, although fun, have a ton of problems and odd desions, most of which seem to be linked to a desire to advertise rather than celebrate all of Nintendo's history. Technically it still is... just the parts Nintendo wants you to remember. Hence the general lack of Panel de Pon but for Bit Trip and forgettable crap like Fluidity getting trophies.

For me, though, for Panel de Pon to have less representation than in Brawl (since stickers are gone) but for its butchered Western release to warrant a mention feels like an even bigger slap in the face than even Lip not getting a trophy.

 

[Reila]

While the removal of Isaac's assist trophy is weird, people always mention Golden Sun, but forget how abysmal the lack of representation Advance Wars is, a franchise that is much bigger and older than Golden Sun. Sure, there is an Assist Trophy, which happens to be one of the worst and very poorly representative of what the games are about. My point is, Golden Sun isn't the special snowflake, quite a few franchises are represented poorly (Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Baten Kaitos, Sin & Punishment, Panel de Pon) or not represented at all in Smash (Eternal Darkness? I don't remember any content of the game ever appearing in Smash).

By the way, Smash clearly works as a marketing device... Didn't Sakurai say that if a franchise doesn't have a future, it is not going to get representation in Smash or something like that?

 

[N. Onymous]

Panel de Pon is arguably repped even worse any of those games you listed except possibly Baten Kaitos. Advance Wars has an Assist Trophy. Golden Sun had an Assist Trophy and still has two songs. Sin & Punishment has an Assist Trophy. All faced reps. Panel de Pon? One song, one item. That's it. No trophies, nothing else.

And for the record, Kid Icarus didn't "have a future" either when Brawl came out and Duck Hunt was (and is) doing about as well, so Sakurai's statement is some 99% baloney at best and an excuse to not put certain franchises in the game at worst.

 

[continuityOfficer]

Panel de Pon is arguably repped even worse any of those games you listed except possibly Baten Kaitos. Advance Wars has an Assist Trophy. Golden Sun had an Assist Trophy and still has two songs. Sin & Punishment has an Assist Trophy. All faced reps. Panel de Pon? One song, one item. That's it. No trophies, nothing else.

And for the record, Kid Icarus didn't "have a future" either when Brawl came out and Duck Hunt was (and is) doing about as well, so Sakurai's statement is some 99% baloney at best and an excuse to not put certain franchises in the game at worst.

People seem to be taking Sakurais quotes out of cortext with the rest, its not all about that, but he takes that as a part of his consideration, sure duck hunt may not have any future games, but with only 1 game its sold more then some entire nintendo franchises

 

[N. Onymous]

My view is, it's cool that Duck Hunt is in the game and they've certainly earned that right, but it doesn't really seem fair that Lip, a character with far, far more potential and "future" than either duck or dog, got shafted a third time and apparently wasn't even considered. There's always the off-chance of DLC, I suppose, but it's still upsetting.

 

[continuityOfficer]

My view is, it's cool that Duck Hunt is in the game and they've certainly earned that right, but it doesn't really seem fair that Lip, a character with far, far more potential and "future" than either duck or dog, got shafted a third time and apparently wasn't even considered. There's always the off-chance of DLC, I suppose, but it's still upsetting.

Lip is problematic for various reasons, and while I like her, at this point it made sense she wasn't in. Unlike a lot of characters she doesn't even have appeal to western players of her own game, since she wasn't even in it in the west. the game sold "well", but not that well, and her item is considered to many uninformed about her actual character to almost be a smash specific item and loosing that might seem strange.