Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[N. Onymous]

Hey, be glad you tried at least, bud. At least we got an actually good 3D Lip model out of it! ^^ After all, we'll likely never get an official one, at least not in the near future. Unless things REALLY turn around and we get a Lip trophy - assist or not - or Mario Kart 8 DLC, but I won't get my hopes up. Nothing has ever changed before. Why would they start now? But I'm digressing...

Even if the roster as we saw in the leak isn't the final one, expecting any of the unrevealed slots to be Lip is basically fruitless at this point. It's a good way to set yourself up for disappointment. Which is a shame really, because if there was anyone deserving of being playable in Smash Bros. at this point... it's Ridley. If there were two characters deserving, it's Ridley and Lip.

 

[Loïc]

What Ony said. I'm just happy that someone actually bothered to make a good 3D model of Lip. On a bit of an unrelated note regarding Dr. Mario, I'm wondering if he will be given a completely original more puzzle based moveset. Yeah he's in the "clone" row but so is Dark Pit who appears to be wielding his staff, meaning he probably has a completely different fighting style than Pit. Though my obvious preferred "puzzle rep" is Lip, the Doc was my main in Melee and assuming he's gotten a complete moveset makeover, I'm happy to see him back. ...Hell, even if not.

Also, for some of you who may be thinking that Doc took Lip's spot (especially as a "puzzle rep")or hurt her chances in any way...I find that unlikely. There's a lot of game genres that have multiple reps in Smash COUGHRPGSCOUGH. I'm just hoping for a future Smash where both Dr. Mario and Lip can be playable, as unlikely as that is.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Also, for some of you who may be thinking that Doc took Lip's spot (especially as a "puzzle rep")or hurt her chances in any way...I find that unlikely. There's a lot of game genres that have multiple reps in Smash COUGHRPGSCOUGH. I'm just hoping for a future Smash were both Dr. Mario and Lip can be playable, as unlikely as that is.

Not saying that Dr. Mario "took" Lip's spot, but the RPG characters are all from different types of RPGs.

The Fire Emblem characters are from the Tactical Turn Based RPG. Legend of Zelda has RPG like elements. Shulk from Xenoblade Chronicles which is a real time RPG.

 

[N. Onymous]

Technically Dr. Mario and Lip are from different genres of puzzle games, too. Dr. Mario is more Tetris-like (Tetris 2 especially), Panel de Pon is... well, it's sort of its own thing.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Not saying that Dr. Mario "took" Lip's spot, but the RPG characters are all from different types of RPGs.

The Fire Emblem characters are from the Tactical Turn Based RPG. Legend of Zelda Adventure Type RPG. Shulk from Xenoblade Chronicles which is a real time RPG.

Zelda isn't an RPG... it never has been (except in Zelda 2), and likely never will. Its an Action-Adventure franchise with a huge focus on puzzle solving. It bares some similarities to some RPG's, but it doesn't have any of the core mechanics of RPG's.

Technically Dr. Mario and Lip are from different genres of puzzle games, too. Dr. Mario is more Tetris-like (Tetris 2 especially), Panel de Pon is... well, it's sort of its own thing.

This is completely true, though. Panel de Pon is way different from anything else. The closest to Panel de Pon is the Match 3 puzzle games, but Match 3 Puzzle Games have everything coming down, Panel de Pon has the blocks going up, which is way different from almost any other puzzle game out there.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Zelda isn't an RPG... it never has been (except in Zelda 2), and likely never will. Its an Action-Adventure franchise with a huge focus on puzzle solving. It bares some similarities to some RPG's, but it doesn't have any of the core mechanics of RPG's.

The reason that Zelda bares some similarities to RPGs is the only reason that I added it. Though, thanks for your input.

 

[N. Onymous]

I've always thought of Zelda as an action-adventure series, although how much is action and how much is adventure depends on the game in question. It doesn't bear many similarities to an RPG at all, besides the (sometimes) top-down view and "talk to everyone, solve puzzles, save the world" kind of gameplay.

It's like comparing Panel de Pon to Kirby, kind of. There are some similarities, but for the most part, they're very different.

 

[Deleted member]

Which is a shame really, because if there was anyone deserving of being playable in Smash Bros. at this point... it's Ridley. If there were two characters deserving, it's Ridley and Lip.

I'm probably not making any friends by saying that in a Lip thread, hehe, but I wouldn't even put Lip that highly. I agree on Ridley and I'm not even a Metroid fan, and then there's the obvious DK neglect. I mean, from what we know so far about DK in Smash 4 is... there's next to nothing new. One Smash Run enemy, no Assist Trophy, no other items (and Brawl even cut the Cannon Barrel), no new playable character and even the only confirmed stage is a retro stage... one we already had in Brawl to boot.
And I also don't see a reason to cut Wolf, he was pretty different from Fox (though he should've had a different FS), especially with Star Fox 3D being released after Brawl and a new game in developement. That series is far from dead... yet they seemingly cut a character?

I'm not a fan of Metroid, Star Fox and the new DKC games, but those decisions are baffling, especially with all the new content Kid Icarus got in Smash after only one new game.

Also, personal confession time, but Lip isn't even my most wanted newcomer, sorry to say, haha. That would be Stafy. Lip's up there though.

 

[N. Onymous]

Let's just say the new roster has a lot of problems that have nothing to do with whether or not Lip is on it and leave it at that. ^^;

 

[TCRhade]

Lip is not my most wanted either. That honour goes to K. Rool.

But yeah, this roster is questionable. I feel as if Sakurai cared even less what fans wanted this time around... Brawl, at least, had some cool newcomers: Wario was there, Dedede and Ike, and even GIGA BOWSER showed up semi-playable! But other than Mac, there's no real interesting newcomer for me.

 

[.:~*Momo*~:.]

The roster is always unpredictable... and as a result can be really disappointing to many people. This has been the case since the original game. I mean, it's always possible for Lip to be added in later as DLC but I'm not getting my hopes up on that. Rather, I'm just going to cross my fingers for her next time around... which sucks because I've been a huge supporter of Lip since pre-Brawl days... :\

 

[Luminario]

Lip is not my most wanted either. That honour goes to K. Rool.

But yeah, this roster is questionable. I feel as if Sakurai cared even less what fans wanted this time around... Brawl, at least, had some cool newcomers: Wario was there, Dedede and Ike, and even GIGA BOWSER showed up semi-playable! But other than Mac, there's no real interesting newcomer for me.

That really is a matter of preference. Brawl's roster sucked for me since it had no character that really jumped out. I kinda liked Lucas and Pit a bit but honestly that was it. With Smash 4's roster my potential character choices were more than tripled. I got Palutena, Rosalina, Villager, Lucina and Robin. Sakurai even gave me characters I didn't know I wanted until they were there like WFT, Bowser Jr, Pacman and Megaman.
Honestly I would have bought the game simply for Peach and Zelda (I got Brawl only for them anyway) but I think Sakurai is definitely listening to a wide variety of fans this time.
Also for me Lip is the final character to make this game perfection. Even if we don't get her I am pretty ****ing pleased with this roster.

 

[N. Onymous]

But yeah, this roster is questionable. I feel as if Sakurai cared even less what fans wanted this time around... Brawl, at least, had some cool newcomers: Wario was there, Dedede and Ike, and even GIGA BOWSER showed up semi-playable! But other than Mac, there's no real interesting newcomer for me.

Shulk, Little Mac, Mega Man, and I think Pac-Man were pretty heavily requested. Besides that though, it's been mostly troll characters like WFT, Mario newcomers/vets, and characters nobody asked for (so we DO get a Melee veteran, just... not the one literally anybody wanted? Yeah OK sure).

---

Back towards the subject at hand, I was slacking off had some free time this weekend and, still pondering the Mario Kart 8 DLC, made a quick lil doodle of Lippy in a Mario Kart bike/ATV outfit:

Spoiler

I probably won't end up coloring it, so if anyone wants to be my guest! ^^

 

[Loïc]

Shulk, Little Mac, Mega Man, and I think Pac-Man were pretty heavily requested. Besides that though, it's been mostly troll characters like WFT, Mario newcomers/vets, and characters nobody asked for (so we DO get a Melee veteran, just... not the one literally anybody wanted? Yeah OK sure).

---

Back towards the subject at hand, I was slacking off had some free time this weekend and, still pondering the Mario Kart 8 DLC, made a quick lil doodle of Lippy in a Mario Kart bike/ATV outfit:

Spoiler

I probably won't end up coloring it, so if anyone wants to be my guest! ^^

Oh my god that's adorable. I don't know why but in that outfit she reminds me of a power ranger. As far as the roster is concerned, I personally feel like it's pretty good despite the borderline random character choices. Most of the newcomers bring something completely unique to the table, which is most likely why the were chosen over some of the more requested characters (however, that's arguable). Besides, the roster most likely isn't final anyway so there's still more potential newcomers. I'll honestly be shocked if Ridley isn't playable in some way.

 

[.:~*Momo*~:.]

That really is a matter of preference. Brawl's roster sucked for me since it had no character that really jumped out. I kinda liked Lucas and Pit a bit but honestly that was it. With Smash 4's roster my potential character choices were more than tripled. I got Palutena, Rosalina, Villager, Lucina and Robin. Sakurai even gave me characters I didn't know I wanted until they were there like WFT, Bowser Jr, Pacman and Megaman.
Honestly I would have bought the game simply for Peach and Zelda (I got Brawl only for them anyway) but I think Sakurai is definitely listening to a wide variety of fans this time.
Also for me Lip is the final character to make this game perfection. Even if we don't get her I am pretty ****ing pleased with this roster.

That's pretty much how I feel. This roster is already a million times better than Brawl's for me so the fact that Lip isn't likely going to be added isn't quite as much of a let down for me. I mean I'm still maining Peach most likely but now I also get to sub not only Zelda but also Palutena, Rosalina, Villager, and Robin. Lip, Dixie, Ashley, Isabelle, Sylveon, and Paula are the only other characters I'd consider maining alongside Princess Peach (Unless any of my subs turn out to play really well and I adore using them) but even without them after the disappointment for me that was Brawl, I can't feel too upset this time around.

 

[Deleted member]

SSB4's roster isn't bad per se, just heavily in favor of certain franchises and neglecting others. There are some heavily requested newcomers, but I think they did the same mistake as during the pre-Brawl days and actually revealed too many of them too soon. By now, the only unannounced characters left from the leaked roster are either veterans, in the clone section and Bowser Jr. and DHD. If you ask me, they should've locked more newcomers or at least not nearly all of announcing them before release. I for one would've loved to see Mac suddenly as a new challenger appear outta nowhere. But then again, Japan gets the game a month earlier anyway, so good luck avoiding spoilers for a game like Smash.

Anyway, speaking of the roster, today's PotD indeed proves on of three possible things:

• we indeed haven't seen the final roster
• the roster leak and the All-Star picture come from different builds
• the roster leak and the All-Star were taken at different times (roster is complete, but wasn't by the time the All-Star pic was taken

I'm hoping for the first part.

 

[N. Onymous]

Fingers crossed for the first. The roster as it is in that leak is good in some ways but massively disappointing in others (and not just because of no Lip) for reasons I think we've covered adequately already.

I still hope for an assist trophy at the very least. To be blunt, Nintendo's been giving Lip and her franchise the cold shoulder for so long, and the series has been unrepresented in Smash outside of one item, a song, and about four stickers for so long, and we're getting so many retro Japan-only assists, that passing up Lip for whatever reason is particularly inexcusable at this point and, I think, proof-positive that someone at Nintendo hates the series should it actually happen.

Panel de Pon was never a major series, but it's still important to Nintendo history by being one of their few truly unique puzzle games (alongside maybe Pushmo), and to continually deny it any recognition at all, not even giving Lip the privilege of a trophy, is disrespectful to not just the franchise but its small yet loyal fanbase as well.

 

[Deleted member]

I still hope for an assist trophy at the very least. To be blunt, Nintendo's been giving Lip and her franchise the cold shoulder for so long, and the series has been unrepresented in Smash outside of one item, a song, and about four stickers for so long, and we're getting so many retro Japan-only assists, that passing up Lip for whatever reason is particularly inexcusable at this point and, I think, proof-positive that someone at Nintendo hates the series should it actually happen.

Speaking of the stickers, weren't they wrong as well? They used the Nintendo Puzzle Collection characters, but used the names of the SNES game. That kinda sucked, to be honest. But then again, the Smash Bros series is never 100% accurate, the trophies have a lot of errors as well, especially when it comes to old niche games.

 

[N. Onymous]

Speaking of the stickers, weren't they wrong as well? They used the Nintendo Puzzle Collection characters, but used the names of the SNES game. That kinda sucked, to be honest. But then again, the Smash Bros series is never 100% accurate, the trophies have a lot of errors as well, especially when it comes to old niche games.

I think that was just in the localized versions. I want to say it has something to do with the scrapped localization of NPC, but the rest of the world just wasn't awesome enough for it so I guess we'll never know for sure. Either way it was nice to see the fairy characters get just one "true" appearance outside of Japan, which makes it sting all the more that we're possibly going back to Lip's Stick as our only rep.

It's a shame, but who are we to convince a major corporation to change their minds on this subject... Panel de Pon has already been seemingly banished to the pit of That Which We'd Rather Forget, and I'd like to think Mario Kart 8 is still an option with the DLC and everything (else I wouldn't have drawn that picture ^^), but Lip in SSB is evidently pie-in-the-sky as it is...

 

[Deleted member]

I think that was just in the localized versions.

Which would be correct. Point still stands that there are errors all the time. Though it's even more baffling in this case, considering the Japanese version got the names right Lip/Furil and the others aren't even the same character and, strictly speaking, come from different games. Makes me wonder why they didn't do a direct translation in this case.

In case you're wondering, these are the four fairies:

Spoiler

• 宝石の妖精 ピュア（NINTENDO パズルコレクション） (Pure/Ruby)
  
• 月の妖精 サラ（NINTENDO パズルコレクション） (Sara,Sala/Seren)
  
• 水の妖精 セシル（NINTENDO パズルコレクション） (Cecil/Elias)
• 花の妖精 フリル（NINTENDO パズルコレクション） (Furil/Lip)

 

[N. Onymous]

In any case, it was neat to get a vanishingly rare glimpse of the fairies one more time (outside of Japan even). I just hope we'll get that chance again. (Maybe even in their home series? Ahem?) Before 2050 at least? But knowing our luck...

 

[N. Onymous]

Well, this topic is kind of dead, isn't it. I know Smash 4 releases in Japan next week, and I know we know the final (pre-DLC?) roster at this point, but you'd expect at least somewhat more activity... Personally I'm not getting my hopes up for even a regular trophy, but you never know. *sigh* Come on, Nintendo... Give us this, at least.

As we transition into Panel de Pon General mode - which, given the franchise's continued obscurity, may be the final nail in the coffin for any activity we once had - I'd like to bring something up. We all know this is a great series, with lovable characters and an adorable aesthetic that brought all of us together, and we all know even more that it simply isn't getting the love it deserves. I think we'd all agree that it'd be nice to see it come (back?) into the spotlight, so... what do you propose we do to change this, to let more people know?

 

[Hong]

I don't think there is much we can do besides making this a general thread.

I myself still love Panel de Pon a lot, at least the original game. Now that I am back in school I am playing it every day as a nice mental workout.

 

[4theRECORD]

Speaking of which, what happens to this thread after SMB4's release? Does it get locked? That would be a little sad considering there really dosen't seem to be a PdP thread here, and the little(very little, but existing) possibility of DLC.

Either way, I'm not expecting Lip pre-release. We'll be lucky if we get one trailer, and I expect it to be Ridley.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Speaking of which, what happens to this thread after SMB4's release? Does it get locked? That would be a little sad considering there really dosen't seem to be a PdP thread here, and the little(very little, but existing) possibility of DLC.

Either way, I'm not expecting Lip pre-release. We'll be lucky if we get one trailer, and I expect it to be Ridley.

It apparently goes to an archive.

 

[N. Onymous]

Speaking of which, what happens to this thread after SMB4's release? Does it get locked? That would be a little sad considering there really dosen't seem to be a PdP thread here, and the little(very little, but existing) possibility of DLC.

The plan, last time I checked, was to move this to the/one of the video games board/s (NintenZone?) and have it become our PdP thread. (My idea, by the way - you're welcome! : P)

 

[MrHomelessHobo]

can you guys not ****ing do this

 

[N. Onymous]

Is she though? : P

 

[Hong]

Pretty sure a lot of those people are just stream monsters who don't actually care.

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ LIP OR RIOT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ

 

[N. Onymous]

Twitch is lousy with spammers anyway. You can't walk five feet without someone spewing "raise ur dongers" all over. Don't take a few bad eggs as representative of an entire group. ^^

 

[Carrill]

Hey guys! ^^

Like a lot of you, I've been hoping to see Lip in a Smash Bros game since the wait for Brawl. As a kid, I really loved playing Pokemon Puzzle League but while playing Melee, I saw the Lip's Stick item and quickly grew curious. From there, I learned about Panel de Pon and the true origins of the Puzzle League series.

So I played Panel de Pon and loved it! The music was wonderful and the colorful cast of fairies reminded me of something of the likes of Sailor Moon. Best of all, it was a good challenge. And it was always so satisfying to pull of a 10+ Chain. xD

This close to Smash 4's release, Lip's chances are looking really dismal... though I'm not really surprised. As much as I hoped for her to make a playable appearance, I could always see her not making the cut for whatever reason. Aside from Ridley, (who also probably won't make it. D: )) Lip was probably the only character I was really dying to see in Smash 4.

Even still, I can respect and understand all of the choices Sakurai's made for the newcomers.

Except for Dark Pit... F*ck Dark Pit. >.<

Hopefully, Lip will make it in the next one!

Also, I really like Thania and Flare! :D

 

[Loïc]

Welcome to the thread! ...Even though we've got less than a week before Lip is most likely inevitably deconfirmed. Regardless, it's good to have more supporters!

whythehateforedgypittho ; _ ;

 

[4theRECORD]

Welcome to the thread! ...Even though we've got less than a week before Lip is most likely inevitably deconfirmed. Regardless, it's good to have more supporters!

whythehateforedgypittho ; _ ;

dp is a clone, and not a good one either. They look exactly the same, and probably won't have any unique moves(which it should be, spending time on him for an original moveset is just too much). But he's not taking anyones spot, so people should just ignore him if they don't like him.
That aside, what are Lip's chances for DLC? I know PdP will get a rep someday(A franchise with 7 games starting on the SFC should be considered fairly important), I just wonder when...

 

[Loïc]

dp is a clone, and not a good one either. They look exactly the same, and probably won't have any unique moves(which it should be, spending time on him for an original moveset is just too much). But he's not taking anyones spot, so people should just ignore him if they don't like him.
That aside, what are Lip's chances for DLC? I know PdP will get a rep someday(A franchise with 7 games starting on the SFC should be considered fairly important), I just wonder when...

Spoiler

In the leaked picture of his portrait DP appears to be wielding his signature staff, so despite being in the clone row it begs the question of whether he's an actual clone or not. ButI'mgettingofftopichere

Can't say honestly. We're not even sure if there IS going to be DLC for Smash 4 at this point. However, I would imagine her chances would be affected by outcry/general requests for her. Considering the game is releasing later this week, development must be finished, so now would be the perfect time for Sakurai and Nintendo to be scouting for some DLC characters (again, assuming we even get any).

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm not hopeful at all. Even a regular trophy seems a long shot at this point, unfortunately: I know they all, except for Rayman, seem to be straight model imports like Brawl was, so if they were lazy they could just copy-paste Lip's Captain Rainbow model into the game and call it a day. But Nintendo is only barely keeping the fairies around anymore (from what I understand, it's limited to the Lip's Stick in SSB and a Virtual Console rerelease every generation or so in Japan; again, I firmly believe this is because they wrongly think Lip and friends have no market in the rest of the world), so if we just get faceless representation again, I won't be surprised. Or happy...

I dunno, we could try pushing for DLC (I've been trying, if unsuccessfully, to make some noise for Lip at least in Mario Kart 8's DLC), but I don't know if anyone up there will listen. It's a relatively unknown game - not quite as unknown as, say, For Frogs the Bell Tolls, but still obscure - so I'm not even sure if we fairy fans have the numbers to change anyone's minds. But we could say we tried!

Also, it's nice to have you on the team Carrill! But...

Also, I really like Thania and Flare! :D

It's "Thiana". When you're as big a fan of a game as I am, you notice these things. ^^

 

[JamesDNaux]

Lip is still in my top five for Smash DLC if that ever comes up. Higher up even if some characters actually do make it.


I don't care for Mario kart myself, but it would be a good way to get her out to a western audience. I hope we can manage something at least. I'm still personally hoping for an English VC release, it's the perfect game for the 3DS.

 

[N. Onymous]

Now that we're back from our downtime, I can say this: I've really not felt too good about Lip's odds as of late. The 3DS release is right around the corner, and if there's no other Panel de Pon representation in 3DS, there's unfortunately no good reason to think there will be any in U. Downloadable content is likely out of the cards as well, given the dev team probably wrongly considers one item and its trophy to be adequate representation. We may not even get Lip's theme on the Pictochat stage this time.

I think it's best if we turn our enthusiasm to Project M and/or Mario Kart 8 at this point, if I may be honest. Project M is a fan-based work and therefore much more likely to listen to our requests than not just one, but two major corporations. Meanwhile, crossovers are relatively new to the Mario Kart series (completely new, if you discount Pac-Man and co. in the arcade games) so it should be easier to push for Lip as a downloadable racer if there's less competition from Ridley and Isaac and K. Rool and Shulk and... Of course, that's assuming Nintendo is willing to listen.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm confident we'll get more Panel de Pon representation, considering the Sable AT (Which is more obscure than this franchise), I think we'll get Lip with a great looking model.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Considering all the obscure references, we should at LEAST get a Lip trophy, if not an AT. A trophy is all I'm expecting, but I'd love for even an AT appearance.

 

[Loïc]

With all of the other obscure assist trophies, it almost seemed like it was building up to Lip's appearance...however, she was a no show (this might be stretching it a bit, but I find this comparable to the Ridley teasing...only not as much). But I agree with the rest, if nothing else, we'll most likely see a Lip trophy. Maybe some other fairies as well! (Though the last part is probably unlikely)