Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[Grimnir]

Well your old pal Grimnir has had a few drinks. Still, he has some things to say about Lip and Panel de Pon.Once upon a time in the pre-Brawl days, Toad was considered a shoe-in. He was practically taken for granted. Then he got revealed once again as Peach's neutral b. At that point, he was generally accepted as a move, never to be playable. And thus, when the new Smash (smash 4 and 5) came around and as he was revealed once again as a moved, very few people cared.

I suspect (but certainly cannot prove) that Sakurai, back in the Melee days thought that by giving us the Lip's stick, he thought he was doing Panel de Pon fans a huge a favour by including an item from that game. And that being the case, we and he have gotten used to it, just has he and we have Toad being part of Peach's moveset. I believe that as an item, Sakurai believes he is adequately representing Panel de Pon through the Lip's stick. After 3 games, it''s generally going to be accepted as THE representation as Panel de Pon. Therefore, I really believe this is the last serious chance we have at a playable Lip. After this, no one aside from the few die hard fans will ever seriously consider Lip a contender for a playable spot, instead thinking "the Lip's stick is good enough". So this is really her last chance. Which is downright depressing to me, knowing my favourite puzzle character, who despite being first party, will never be playable.

PS. Thank god for auto correct.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Never be playable until Panel de Pon has a new selling installment to the series.

 

[N. Onymous]

Never be playable until Panel de Pon has a new selling installment to the series.

Ice Climbers. ROB, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, Mega Man. They did release Panel de Pon on the U Virtual Console a year or two ago, but that was clearly only done to keep the copyright around so they could continue to sit on it.

Seriously. Seriously. You have a franchise with a mostly female main cast that looks cute and shallow on the surface but which is so much more than that under the hood. You know what else fits that description? Pretty Cure and Friendship is Magic. Both megahit franchises that sell extremely well to this day. You have your own cast of wonderful and unique characters to potentially turn into a beloved multimedia franchise, to help you get a piece of that pie, and you're doing nothing with them. There's seriously a major profit to be made here. All of that money you could potentially earn from an anime spinoff, and toys, and dolls, and video games, and you're not getting it because you think it won't sell internationally. You know cute can sell. Why not just do it?

I really, really think a dedicated PDP fan, however rare they are these days, should organize some sort of "Save Panel de Pon" campaign to help the franchise get the respect and fame it deserves, but which it hasn't gotten in twenty or so years. It may not work at getting Nintendo's attention, because we all know corporations are rarely interested in what we peasants have to say, but it'd at least help to get the word out about the series and turn some people to our side.

 

[Marakatu]

I'd watch the hell out of My Little Panel.

 

[N. Onymous]

Something just occured to me. We haven't seen whether or not Kirby can still turn into Lip's garbage block as part of his Down-B yet. He's going to be in the E3 Smash tournament/demo that's coming up in about a week, right? I think therein will lie our conclusive proof of whether or not Lip will be playable:

If he still can turn into a pink garbage block by using Stone, I'm calling it, she's not in the game, end of story, that's that, too bad so sad, fifth time's the charm. (Again, seriously advocating we drum up a "Save Panel de Pon" campaign at some point!)

If he doesn't turn into a garbage block anymore, or turns into one of any other color, then we might be getting somewhere.

 

[JFM2796]

She seems like a good choice for a retro rep/obscure character. It would be cool to have her playable after having her stick for so long.

I know she's essentially deconfirmed but consider me a supporter.

 

[loganhogan]

Ice Climbers. ROB, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit, Mega Man. They did release Panel de Pon on the U Virtual Console a year or two ago, but that was clearly only done to keep the copyright around so they could continue to sit on it.

Seriously. Seriously. You have a franchise with a mostly female main cast that looks cute and shallow on the surface but which is so much more than that under the hood. You know what else fits that description? Pretty Cure and Friendship is Magic. Both megahit franchises that sell extremely well to this day. You have your own cast of wonderful and unique characters to potentially turn into a beloved multimedia franchise, to help you get a piece of that pie, and you're doing nothing with them. There's seriously a major profit to be made here. All of that money you could potentially earn from an anime spinoff, and toys, and dolls, and video games, and you're not getting it because you think it won't sell internationally. You know cute can sell. Why not just do it?

I really, really think a dedicated PDP fan, however rare they are these days, should organize some sort of "Save Panel de Pon" campaign to help the franchise get the respect and fame it deserves, but which it hasn't gotten in twenty or so years. It may not work at getting Nintendo's attention, because we all know corporations are rarely interested in what we peasants have to say, but it'd at least help to get the word out about the series and turn some people to our side.

An ultra cute and all-feminine series would definitely sell if marketed correctly I don't know why they won't try, maybe they're afraid it won't succeed?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Something just occured to me. We haven't seen whether or not Kirby can still turn into Lip's garbage block as part of his Down-B yet. He's going to be in the E3 Smash tournament/demo that's coming up in about a week, right? I think therein will lie our conclusive proof of whether or not Lip will be playable:

If he doesn't turn into a garbage block anymore, or turns into one of any other color, then we might be getting somewhere.

I remember once saying this as well, so I hope for those in E3 to keep an eye on this. However, I suspect right now though that Kirby becomes this garbage block as before - and even then, much like Grimnir mentioned, I've finally come to accept that Lip's Stick seems to be best as it is to represent PdP along with other throwbacks in Smash for Sakurai, which should serve as a sign that we shouldn't really support her after the day she's disconfirmed for good - unless next Smash does enough drastic changes to give fleetway to Lip be in the game.

It's really sad, but perhaps, it's also that I'm going back to the start in an essence: finding out what the origin behind Lip's Stick was, and returning to the same position as before it's discovery, only more richer with experience and pleasants memories from the discoveries behind the said item.

It's bittersweet, but I don't think it should ruin Smash 4 for me, otherwise I'd be just holding it as some superficial self-fulfilment game. But yeah, I've already stopped looking forward to see Lip since the item being confirmed again.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

You know, I really think the longer he goes without her, the less likely she is. She hasn't had a revival and only had 1 or 2 games. Captain Rainbow and the Stick are all that's keeping her relevancy alive. If she's not in Smash 5, I think it's lights out for our dear friend Lip.

 

[N. Onymous]

I just wish we had some official explanation for why Nintendo hates the Panel de Pon franchise and everything to do with it.

Yes. They hate it. They hate it, or else they wouldn't be trying to bury it like they are, especially in the West. They hate it, or they wouldn't have put Lip in Captain Rainbow. They hate it, or they'd be capitalizing on its cuteness to follow in the footsteps of Pretty Cure, Friendship is Magic, and Kirby - one of their own franchises - by now. They hate it, or I wouldn't be pushing for a fan campaign (that probably won't do squat, but what do I know) like I am.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I just wish we had some official explanation for why Nintendo hates the Panel de Pon franchise and everything to do with it.

Yes. They hate it. They hate it, or else they wouldn't be trying to bury it like they are, especially in the West. They hate it, or they wouldn't have put Lip in Captain Rainbow. They hate it, or they'd be capitalizing on its cuteness to follow in the footsteps of Pretty Cure, Friendship is Magic, and Kirby - one of their own franchises - by now. They hate it, or I wouldn't be pushing for a fan campaign (that probably won't do squat, but what do I know) like I am.

Operation Rainbow.
I mean operation rainfall worked right?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I just wish we had some official explanation for why Nintendo hates the Panel de Pon franchise and everything to do with it.

Yes. They hate it. They hate it, or else they wouldn't be trying to bury it like they are, especially in the West. They hate it, or they wouldn't have put Lip in Captain Rainbow. They hate it, or they'd be capitalizing on its cuteness to follow in the footsteps of Pretty Cure, Friendship is Magic, and Kirby - one of their own franchises - by now. They hate it, or I wouldn't be pushing for a fan campaign (that probably won't do squat, but what do I know) like I am.

Naaah, by this logic Nintendo hates every other game that hasn't sold golden mushrooms or Triforces. After all, we hadn't seen new Advance Wars, Custom Robo, Starfy, or such since 2006-8.

I don't think Nintendo (and Intelligent Systems) hates the series, it's just that they're a BUSINESS and they just can't afford to try out selling a game series which hasn't brought them cash and even moreso would just be having problems on it to go with the development. A lot resources wasted for something that won't pay back well. It's no wonder why they're not willing to go with these series until God knows they find ways to revive them. Or just soap them with Smash Bros and they should be ready to go. (Lol)

But yeah, more than enough localization issues, little dough compared to Fire Emblems since Melee, and not too much ways to keep up the series fresh by every installment. It's no wonder PdP ain't around anymore. And even then if all that worked out, I bet PdP would still be Japan-only, much like what Puyo Puyo-series today is being now- even if I still blame Nintendo of America on why PdP's dead, those guys out there weren't (and still aren't) willing to give the fairy representation any damn chance.

But yeah, frankly Intelligent Systems has just found better ouzzler sellers to go with than PdP, such as Pushmo, which has endeared a lot people and has done overally better than PDP ever could in means of reception. Heck, it's now getting a 3rd game for the Wii U.

(Though really now, Mallo is again based on the eponymous Nintendo-mascot.. hahah...)

It's sad though, yeah. It's a very well-crafted and classic puzzler gone now to waste, thanks for it trying to find ways to look appealing because american markets (and Europe has to follow along) And they say that gameplay's all you need.

I keep now thinking nothing will ever make Lip be in Smash. It's sad to realize this after all the support she got during these years, but I'm just thinking we'd be more able to bring Lip to some All-Star-game than Sakurai's ever willing to.

 

[Curious Villager]

I do hope to see both Lip and Mallo show up in the Smash series one day. In fact, even though I'm not much for this whole "rep" thingamajig, I do kinda feel Smash could do with some more puzzlers in the series. We only ever had Dr. Mario (and R.O.B.?) after all.... :/

 

[jigglover]

inb4 Sakurai trolls us all. How? Well... one of Lip's attacks is throwing her stick. The screenshots involving Lip's stick are taken by Lip throwing her stick and taking the screenshot at just the right time to make it seem like an item! :O

 

[Pacack]

inb4 Sakurai trolls us all. How? Well... one of Lip's attacks is throwing her stick. The screenshots involving Lip's stick are taken by Lip throwing her stick and taking the screenshot at just the right time to make it seem like an item! :O

 

[N. Onymous]

-long post-

Even more heartbreaking for fans of the characters, because of Nintendo's apparent attempts to keep them from leaving their home series and their absolute refusal to create any sort of spin-off.

Come on, guys. Panel de Pon RPG? Please? No?

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't think this is really as much Nintendo's doing than it is Intelligent Systems own choice on the matter. And even then I don't think they really hate the Fairy characters in the series...

 

[N. Onymous]

Intelligent Systems is part of Nintendo.

Most of the blame here can probably be blamed on Planet Puzzle League, which dumped every fairy character except an unlockable Lip (and not even that in the international versions, thanks NoA and your hatred of all things whimsical) to... I don't know. Maybe they did it to look more presentable. Either way it alienated its home audience, so it got poor reviews in Japan and I don't think it sold well. Then, from what I can gather, Nintelligent Systems - because of their own poorly conceived decision, may I add - decided there was no market for the series anymore and put the series on the deep-freeze Fire Emblem barely avoided, meaning no more Lip and co. for us. Ever.

Spoiler

Unless we do something about it, wink wink nudge?

 

[Curious Villager]

I suppose so, still not sure if they really hate whimsical/cute things and all (or NoA for that matter) else that would kinda contradict with the fact they have no problems bringing out new Pushmo titles and all.

I agree with Young Horsetail. It's probably more a business decision. I don't know how well the PdP series has done over the years. But if sales have been relatively poor then it's quite understandable why they decided to leave the series on hiatus for a bit and concentrate on another series for now. They are a business first and foremost after all.

Giving Lip at least some more exposure in Smash Bros (at least as an Assist Trophy) might do her some wonders though, or at least encouraging them to give her series a second chance... :/

 

[N. Onymous]

Even if it was rebooted or got a party game or RPG spin-off or something, there's no guarantee it would be released over here. NoA has already made its contempt for the fairy characters and anyone who likes them loud and clear.

 

[LipFlare]

Hello again "It's Been a Long Time Since We Passed Through Space Time!"

So some time has passed and since the LinkedIn-post about some new game project I initially thoght: Advance Wars! After that I allowed me to think that it could be a 0,1% chance that it clould be a PdP-revival.
And then roghly 5 months later, it hit me like a 13 chain on a almost cleared board; (...) It's just a game which doesn't appeal me. Even worse, a possible PdP will even be delayed much more time. ( It will come... someday maybe not morning... maybe not even in a month, but on one distant day it will! With Nintendo Network support of course!)

Direct-on-Topic: But after all I think it hurt Lip's chances enormous her now (for me) doubtfully entry in SMB4 does not even have a game of this gen to advertise! Even if Ike's return gave me a second wind he speak for himself which left me even more crushed about it >.< ! Even if Lip whould feature a unique gameplay expierience (which is proven by some movement theorist!) It lacks the "It prints money" criterion!

Semi-Off-Topic: Puyo Puyo, originally Panel de pon and PDP 2 ... these puzzle games are so much S-Tier! I peek really envios at Japan for these! I case of Puyo Puyo the mash up with Tetris gave me some hope for the E3 of this year.

Résumé: It's all Nintys fault! (trololol). Honestly: if Nintendo whould care more for their 1st Party IP's they could offer a much spread gaming expierience which could enforce the sales as well!

Have a nice time everyone and remember: the last petal have not fallen yet and the fire still blazes.

With best regards: LipFlare

P.S. Don't get me wrong on the Pushmo World announcement I am glad for everyone who is happy about it.

 

[Delicious Tears]

This thread is full of so much negativism. Stop being so emo guys, you know you can't predict the Sakurai. Chances are, Kermit the Frog may show up in a Smash Bros. game.

 

[Luminario]

I'm not surprised people are feeling quite pessimistic about Lips inclusion (first time posting btw, yay) with the Lip's Stick being an item again the odds aren't really in our flower fairy's favour.
That being said we musn't give up hope! she still has a few things going for her:
1) She's retro. If Little Mac, Pit, Ice Climbers and a few others can be revived then so can Lip
2) She's female. It shouldn't really be the deciding factor but Smash Bros really needs more girls. She easily takes the role of the tiny, light humanoid that no other female fills (Jiggly isn't humanoid so, yea)
3) She's been wanted since Melee by both Sakurai and quite a few fans and she was referenced even more so in Brawl than Melee
4) She can use the flower head effect in her general attacks. It's unused by everything except her stick and it would really bring something new to have a character fully utilize its potential.
5) She's a cute flower fairy princess. Seriously how awesome would it be to see her completely thrash Nintendo's bad guys

 

[N. Onymous]

4) She can use the flower head effect in her general attacks. It's unused by everything except her stick and it would really bring something new to have a character fully utilize its potential.

The flower can be caused by several things (Togepi's Leech Seed, Crazy Hand's grab, Negative Zone, Rest in Brawl), but Lip's Stick is certainly most famous for it.

 

[smashkirby]

Well, like I've said before, I'm guess I'm just one of those people that want to hold out for Lip until I don't see her in the playable roster in any way, shape, or form. (Starter or Hidden. Heck, even if she was an Assist Trophy, I'd take it if it meant she got a likely chance to be playable like Little Mac.)

 

[N. Onymous]

I'd like an assist trophy if nothing else, but I'd settle for a normal trophy. Playable, of course, is best-case scenario.

 

[Marakatu]

I'd like an assist trophy if nothing else, but I'd settle for a normal trophy. Playable, of course, is best-case scenario.

Hey, how about she was an assist trophy and she dropped Lip's Sticks? Kinda like how Chansey worked in SSB64.

 

[N. Onymous]

I think Lippy as a Assist trophy would work more like she jumps around swinging at people wither flower rod to give them flowers.

 

[Kapus]

I would expect a Lip Assist to drop garbage blocks from the sky.

 

[Hong]

I know this might sound silly, but is Lip having Lip's Stick really all that important? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's not like Link and the Master Sword. He NEEDS it to banish evil. Same with the Falchion and Ragnell.

What if Lip arrived entirely unarmed? She can still accomplish everything she normally could. Especially if she had some kind of modern redesign.

Not trying to mislead anyone. Her chances were always low, but I don't feel at all bothered by the sighting of Lip's Stick.

 

[Luminario]

I know this might sound silly, but is Lip having Lip's Stick really all that important? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's not like Link and the Master Sword. He NEEDS it to banish evil. Same with the Falchion and Ragnell.

What if Lip arrived entirely unarmed? She can still accomplish everything she normally could. Especially if she had some kind of modern redesign.

Not trying to mislead anyone. Her chances were always low, but I don't feel at all bothered by the sighting of Lip's Stick.

The problem with that is Lip with her stick is iconic. It would kinda be like Link without the Master Sword unfortunately.

that being said the stick as an item and Lip with the stick could both exist at the same time since I doubt people would get confused. Plus it's been around since melee and while Lip could use the flower head effect in most of her attacks the stick could give other characters a bit of that ability just like the beam sword gives all characters a sword and the super scope and ray gun gives characters energy projectiles. I'm probably really grasping at straws here but what can ya do?

 

[N. Onymous]

I have an idea. Nintendo is planning to rerelease GCN games on the U Virtual Console, right?

If/when it turns out Lip isn't playable in the game, I think our next best bet would be to see if we get push to get Nintendo Puzzle Collection released on the Western VC. (It wouldn't be the first time a Japanese game was translated for the Virtual Console.) If we can make that happen, it will be the first time a PDP character has appeared outside of Japan in their own game, unedited. Having an official English version of the game would do wonders.

 

[Laniv]

I have an idea. Nintendo is planning to rerelease GCN games on the U Virtual Console, right?

If/when it turns out Lip isn't playable in the game, I think our next best bet would be to see if we get push to get Nintendo Puzzle Collection released on the Western VC. (It wouldn't be the first time a Japanese game was translated for the Virtual Console.) If we can make that happen, it will be the first time a PDP character has appeared outside of Japan in their own game, unedited. Having an official English version of the game would do wonders.

But IIRC, Lip herself wasn't even in Puzzle Collection, that was her daughter Furil.

 

[N. Onymous]

But IIRC, Lip herself wasn't even in Puzzle Collection, that was her daughter Furil.

So? Either way it's getting PDP in English, which is one of the barriers to more widespread recognition, which is one of the barriers to either character in Smash Bros.

 

[LipFlare]

Hello again

First I need to say it's nice that here are still some guys, who are almost unaffected by the pessimism, which flooded the topic since the Lip's Stick-is-an-item-again-revelation *gasp* *caugh*

Nintendo Puzzle Collection for Wii U? That would be nice, if it would have a competive Net-Battle-Feature I would pay full gameprice for it! (So much "would"... (N)inty let it happen already!!!!). Sry but I have to ask directly; is that release a theory? If not then my bad!

Panel de Pon as a vessel of awesome a puzzle game is nothing without it's heart; It's characters and story -are needed to give it an indentity and to bound fans to the series. (imagine Puyo Puyo without it's characters ...? You see!)

I don't want to be anymore demanding for a PdP reference in Smash but Lip need a major one (or more [!]) for the sake of the series.

I hope you have a nice time everyone!

With best regards LipFlare

P.S. Don't call me ignorant but I see Panel de Pon and Panel de Pon 2 equal to each other in terms of inclusion in the west. But it's right the names need to be correct and Furil is the so called daughter of Lip ,so alone that mention could be enough for Lip's creditably in PdP 2.

 

[N. Onymous]

Nintendo Puzzle Collection for Wii U? That would be nice, if it would have a competive Net-Battle-Feature I would pay full gameprice for it! (So much "would"... (N)inty let it happen already!!!!). Sry but I have to ask directly; is that release a theory? If not then my bad!

Right now it's just a theory. However, when the N starts releasing GCN games on Virtual Console, it gives NPC a second chance at localization. If Nintendo won't put it up themselves, though, we'll have to push for it.

 

[MasterMushroom]

Bump

 

[N. Onymous]

Oh geez, that Furil is effing adorable. Did you draw that?

 

[N. Onymous]

Say, that new Splatoon game. Doesn't its cast appear to consist mostly of young, cute girl/squid things? And - get this - it's being released in the United States and Europe unedited.

Intriguing.

What's your excuse for not releasing Panel de Pon over here.

 

[Luminario]

So I saw Kirby turn into the garbage block in the invitational...
that ain't good D: