Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[N. Onymous]

Just the special moves does not a moveset make, we've already seen that Lip's Stick is a melee weapon, it is swung around. That would make up the majority of Lip's moves, like how Link uses the Master Sword for 95% of his regular attacks. And like I said above, what would happen if Lip picked up her own stick? She would just have the same attacks as she always has, effectively making it useless.

She doesn't have to have it in her move set at all. If Lip's Stick absolutely has to remain a separate item, give her a move (maybe a Down-B or something?) that spawns one in her hands. Easy fix, as I've said.

 

[JamesDNaux]

She doesn't have to have it in her move set at all. If Lip's Stick absolutely has to remain a separate item, give her a move (maybe a Down-B or something?) that spawns one in her hands. Easy fix, as I've said.

That would be like Dedede without his hammer. Just being able to spawn infinite Sticks wouldn't work and would be broken.
Besides, that's like saying "let Link punch and kick and have him just spawn a Master Sword with a special."
It's nice to dream and all, but this is taking it too far. There's so much straw grasping here that it isn't funny.

 

[N. Onymous]

King Dedede isn't really the best comparison here because most of his attacks in the Kirby series (when fought as a boss, at least) don't revolve around his hammer. He body slams, leaps, swings his hammer, flies, and inhales. That's 1/5.

 

[JamesDNaux]

We're not talking about Kirby, we're talking about Smash. But if you must nitpick within denial, then take your pick of any other weapon wielding character.

Link punching instead of using the Master Sword.
Marth doing karate chops instead of swinging the Falchion.
Meta Knight doing body slams instead of spamming the Galaxia.
Popo swinging Nana instead of a mallet.
Mega Man punching instead of using his Mega Buster.
Little Mac kicking things instead of boxing.
Ganondorf being a bland Captain Falcon clone instead of using his own moves.

Note that final exception where the character isn't doing what he should be doing, nearly everyone wants Ganondorf to actually use his sword.
Take away Lip's Stick, take away a big part of her character. Do you want Lip, or some little girl who's punching and kicking things for some reason?

 

[N. Onymous]

We're not talking about Kirby, we're talking about Smash.

We're not talking about Panel de Pon, we're talking about Smash.

Ganondorf being a bland Captain Falcon clone instead of using his own moves.

On the subject of Captain Falcon, his moveset doesn't have anything to do with F-Zero aside from his Final Smash. While it's true that they merely took the only finished character from Dragon King and gave him his/her/its moves, he has kept more or less the same move set all the way through Brawl, and presumably the fourth game too. Something to think about...

Take away Lip's Stick, take away a big part of her character. Do you want Lip, or some little girl who's punching and kicking things for some reason?

We've got a few options here:

A. Remove Lip's Stick entirely (suboptimal as it would take away other characters' opportunities to put flowers on others' heads, and not the case here anyhow)
B. Keep Lip's Stick as an item, redesign playable Lip's flower rod to be visually distinct from the item
C. Keep Lip's Stick as an item, have Lip use magic for normal attacks
D. Keep Lip's Stick as an item, have Lip as "some little girl who's punching and kicking things for some reason"
E. Keep Lip's Stick and simply don't have Lip playable/in the game at all (most likely here, given the circumstances)

 

[Grimnir]

I think the question of whether or not Lip's stick disconfirms Lip is ultimately pointless. The question we should be asking is if we're getting any more characters besides the ones from Gematsu's insider. If we do get any characters besides the 12 likely newcomers, even if we completely discount the Lip's stick, do you really believe that Lip will be one of them? There probably won't be more than a couple, if any at all.

Panel de Pon is a great series and Lip is a cool character. However, Nintendo does not seem to want to do anything with her anymore. The whole gimmick of Captain Rainbow was that it was an island of FORGOTTEN Nintendo characters. Being a character in that game was more of a public insult to the character than an honour. Of these characters, Little Mac was later featured in a decently successful series revival game which I think is safe to say is the reason he was picked for Smash. While he is looking increasingly unlikely now, Takamaru's newfound support mostly comes from his Samurai Warriors guest appearance and the Ninja Castle minigame in Nintendo Land (though he didn't actually physically appear), which suggests that Nintendo was pushing for some kind of revival of his franchise or character. Him not being in an actual new Nazo no Murasamejou game is probably what is ultimately keeping him out of Smash.

Lip on the other hand has gotten nothing of the sort. Expressed interest from Sakurai from 15 years ago is not going to get her in this game. It's hard to begrudge the team for not putting her in when doing so is unlikely to generate hype from more than a handful of people, and her design is not one that has much mass appeal without having some extreme alterations. All the newcomers so far and the newcomers in the Gematsu leak are characters that have been involved in games since Brawl. Lip and Panel de Pon has not gotten any new releases since Brawl aside from that forgettable Chotto Panel de Pon (basically a bland minimal port) and the previously mentioned Captain Rainbow role.

So here's my point: Lip has no hope of being a playable character in this game. Like the Ridley fans, it's best to give up now and look towards the future. I know its fun to just talk and speculate and that's the point of the thread and all, but for those who are serious about wanting Lip in Smash, they are going to have to find another course. Lip's best bet of ever getting into Smash Bros. is going to be if she appears in another Panel de Pon game (in more than a simple cameo like in DS) that ends up being successful in all regions. The series has both a lot of universe and gameplay potential to happen. What can we do about it? I don't know, honestly. I guess tell Nintendo what we want? Something tells me western fans starting a campaign for a new game with a so-far Japanese exclusive character would just cause more confusion than anything. But even that would in the long run be better than trying to petition her just for Smash.

Regardless, the Lip's Stick argument is just going in circles. The only way it can ever be proven right or wrong is if Lip gets in the game as playable (she won't) or if Sakurai states that she can't exist as playable along with the item. Nobody is ever going to change their mind on it.

 

[N. Onymous]

Good points. Telling me to give up on Lip in Smash Bros., though - even now when it's looking increasingly unlikely that she'll be playable - is like telling the sun not to be hot. Maybe I secretly like setting myself up for disappointment. But yeah, I see where you're coming from.

The "character not being in any recent games" argument doesn't hold much water to me, considering the Ice Climbers, but a case can sadly be made for it. All of the newly revealed characters for the fourth game besides Mega Man have seen new games in their series come out in the past two or three years. I'm totally on board with a retro slot goin' to her though, as unlikely as that's looking.

I like the idea of a Western campaign for a new PDP game, but getting the attention of such a big company as Nintendo would be really tricky - especially considering, given its obscurity outside of Japan, how many people would be on board with it (hint: not many). I'd expect an "I like your enthusiasm, but we have no plans for it at this time [read: ever]" response at best. It's a real shame: the Panel de Pon universe and its characters have some wonderful storytelling potential and deserve a lot more recognition than they've ever gotten, plus it would mesh extremely well with the neo-feminist girls-need-role-models wave that Friendship is Magic started... but Nintendo hates, perhaps is even ashamed of the series for no good reason, so for now at least the burden of creating new adventures in said universe rests squarely on the fans. (But I can name maybe... five? current Western PDP fan works off the top of my head, four of which are taken seriously, one of which is dead/dying, and three of which are mine - and of those three, two haven't even gotten off the ground yet. Being a fan of this universe is hell.)

 

[SchAlternate]

I'll just wait for the game's release and hope that it'd be possible to have Lip playable and with the ability to wield double Lip's Sticks.

 

[N. Onymous]

I won't count on it, but it'd be nice.

 

[DreamZeroX]

I Hope All Goes Well For Our Little Lip<3

 

[Grimnir]

I like the idea of a Western campaign for a new PDP game, but getting the attention of such a big company as Nintendo would be really tricky - especially considering, given its obscurity outside of Japan, how many people would be on board with it (hint: not many). I'd expect an "I like your enthusiasm, but we have no plans for it at this time [read: ever]" response at best. It's a real shame: the Panel de Pon universe and its characters have some wonderful storytelling potential and deserve a lot more recognition than they've ever gotten, plus it would mesh extremely well with the neo-feminist girls-need-role-models wave that Friendship is Magic started... but Nintendo hates, perhaps is even ashamed of the series for no good reason, so for now at least the burden of creating new adventures in said universe rests squarely on the fans. (But I can name maybe... five? current Western PDP fan works off the top of my head, four of which are taken seriously, one of which is dead/dying, and three of which are mine - and of those three, two haven't even gotten off the ground yet. Being a fan of this universe is hell.)

A potentially good way to at the very least start is requesting a translated virtual console release of the original Panel de Pon and the Nintendo Puzzle Collection. I don't see why a simple translation of these games would be unreasonable. Nintendo has shown to be willing to translate some old games for the virtual console. It's a pretty low risk and low cost situation. I'd even do it for free. From there, it would take a concentrated effort to convince others to buy it. Heck, even just a VC release of Tetris Attack would help (as far as I know it hasn't been released yet) as it would show that there is still interest in the series in general.

Panel de Pon DS was great in terms of game play. The touch screen controls fit very well with the puzzles. The bad part was it was just so bland. It's such a shame that they didn't try to spice it up with story and characters. The point is though, that there is still room for game play innovation by utilizing the technologies of the systems. I'm sure the Wii U could find some way to make it even more interesting and fun. Maybe it could catch on and become a hit. It wouldn't be the first puzzle game to do so. Add in a cast of likeable female characters, and you've got all of Japan hooked, and probably a strong cult following in the rest of the world as well.

It's a long path filled with lots of "what ifs" and "maybes" but if we want to ever see Lip in a new game, we have to start somewhere. Or else just hope for a miracle.

 

[N. Onymous]

There's actually an English fan translation of PDP. If Nintendo wanted (or was just exceptionally lazy), they could have just licensed that and put it up on the Virtual Console/eShop. It wouldn't be the first time a fan translation was made offical.

Nintendo Puzzle Collection has an easy cheat in the form of Dr Mario, which is just a straight port of Dr. Mario 64. Copy and paste that script, and you'd be golden. Its versions of Yoshi's Cookie and PDP would be a bit trickier since they never had prior Western releases, but it's not like they're RPGs or anything. It was understandable enough when that explanation/excuse was used for Mother 3, it being a text-heavy game released during a time period when spending the extra time and effort on a full localization would be a major gamble and probably ultimately a loss, but choosing not to localize NPC because it has too much text would be downright silly. I could see Lip/Furil and co. having lasting appeal among the casual market thanks to a potential localized NPC, even over here in the usually grr-manly-or-bust United States.

VC Tetris Attack isn't happening because of the whole "Tetris" part. It's not a Tetris game, PDP has got nothing to do with Tetris. Renaming it such was part of Nintendo's scheme to increase its Western marketability (the other part of which was slapping a Y chromosome and Yoshi's Island skin on everything), and the Tetris Company has publicly stated its unwillingness to re-license the name to Nintendo if it's for that purpose. Plus, considering its status as an SNES game, changing the title is out of the question too. Pokemon Puzzle League, maybe... (Maybe as a launch for the U's Nintendo 64 Virtual Console? Eh? Eh?)

Panel de Pon DS/Planet Puzzle League actually had Lip and her stage as unlockable in the original version, but Nintendo's international branch simply won't let bygones be bygones, so she had to go. Fanbase reactions to the game back in Japan were actually largely negative as far as I know, precisely because of that removal/diminishing of story and mascots.

 

[LF2K]

It was stupid of them to slap "Tetris" on the game. I guess they weren't planning on re-releases at the time.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think all we can hope for is a fully 3D-rendered Lip trophy at this point. Hoping it happens.

 

[N. Onymous]

Or an Assist Trophy. Or DLC. We'll find out.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't mean two Master Swords existing at the same time, we have two Links and two Zeldas after all.

But think of this, if the Master Sword was an item, then a character picking it up would have normal attacks like Link does. So what if Link picks it up? Will it just not do anything for him? An item that doesn't do anything for a single character is bad design.

Meh... make the Master Sword item work like it did in the SNES game... have it shoot circling beams when you Smash Forward it.

 

[Kapus]

So, no Lip in SSB4, huh? Guess it's up to us then.

So, a super cool pal of mine is working on this super cool project, a custom model of Lip for Brawl (finally!!). It is not finished, and there are a few spotty things here and there (her face is completely static, the scaling on her body and proportions are slightly off, her ponytail is a little bit flat and needs bones reworked, etc.), but this is a quick little preview of what's been done so far. It's kind of a frankensteined model, as you might notice (she clearly has Peach's torso), but I think this looks super cool regardless and I'm really excited to eventually try out the finished version. It's the closest we can get!

Just thought I'd share with you all!

 

[N. Onymous]

You hear that, Project M?

 

[BluePikmin11]

So, no Lip in SSB4, huh? Guess it's up to us then.

So, a super cool pal of mine is working on this super cool project, a custom model of Lip for Brawl (finally!!). It is not finished, and there are a few spotty things here and there (her face is completely static, the scaling on her body and proportions are slightly off, her ponytail is a little bit flat and needs bones reworked, etc.), but this is a quick little preview of what's been done so far. It's kind of a frankensteined model, as you might notice (she clearly has Peach's torso), but I think this looks super cool regardless and I'm really excited to eventually try out the finished version. It's the closest we can get!

Just thought I'd share with you all!

Holy.. Holy.. Holy.. this is awesome.

 

[Itty Bit]

So, no Lip in SSB4, huh? Guess it's up to us then.

So, a super cool pal of mine is working on this super cool project, a custom model of Lip for Brawl (finally!!). It is not finished, and there are a few spotty things here and there (her face is completely static, the scaling on her body and proportions are slightly off, her ponytail is a little bit flat and needs bones reworked, etc.), but this is a quick little preview of what's been done so far. It's kind of a frankensteined model, as you might notice (she clearly has Peach's torso), but I think this looks super cool regardless and I'm really excited to eventually try out the finished version. It's the closest we can get!

Just thought I'd share with you all!

Oh man, this looks incredible! OuO
I might be hyped for this more than the actual game coming out soon! Is there any way we can follow this friend of yours for updates regarding her?

 

[Kapus]

I'll happily post updates for this project in the thread right here.

 

[HatsuneMiku]

Amazing, Kapus! This could be a potential for Project M, are you basing her moveset on Peach or are you developing a more unique moveset for her?

 

[Kapus]

I'm not doing this! As I said, this is a project my friend is working on, and it is simply a model swap for Peach. No fancy mvoeset stuffs.

 

[HatsuneMiku]

Ah, looks like i misread. But i wish your friend the best of luck on this, and hopefully it can grow to something more and get recognition from Project M. (Ridley is being worked on in that game as we speak, so there's hope for more custom characters! :D)

 

[N. Onymous]

How 'bout Lip as the first character from an entirely new franchise represented in Project M?

Make it happen, and who knows, we could be finally playing as Lip in Sm5sh.

 

[| Kailex |]

Lip is probably the only character I really want to see in smash 4

 

[N. Onymous]

Well that's looking less likely every day, sorry to say. I won't discount her until we know the full roster for certain though. Hope springs eternal, after all...

...but failing that, there's always Project M. The team has already shown enough programming mettle to port two characters over from Melee wholesale, and I think they're working on custom characters too (pretty sure Ridley is one, I think they're voting on a few others). With the custom model Kapus posted about earlier (once it's done ofc), Lip's Make Your Move moveset, and a large enough fan support movement, we could finally end up playing as little Lip in Smash Bros., and Project M may not be official but by gum it's something.

As an added bonus, PM is big enough in the community that by the time Sma5h comes around she may actually get more than a small handful of votes.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I wanted her in. OP made me want her more. She would be fantastic. Plant type fairy charmer with increasing damage. Win.

 

[monkokaio]

Lip is such a sweet heart, it'd make my heart melt if she got in. She's probably my most wanted newcomer.

 

[Hong]

Yay, USB Super Famicom controller. My college notebook just became a $300 Panel de Pon machine. :b

Good bye productive breaks and lunches.

More directly on topic:

I am sure there is at least one parallel universe a month ahead of us where Nintendo reveals their plans for the mobile market at e3. Their first product is Panel de Pon on 3DS eShop and Android marketplace. After this, they reveal other things that our favourite fairy princess has been up to, and unveil Lip as a Super Smash Bros fighter! Unfortunately, in this universe humans are in constant war with the mole people, a subterranean menace who has been gradually overrunning humanity in the past century over a course of several defeats. All the humans die before Smash Bros comes out.

Hopefully this happens in our universe, too.

Only without the mole people thing.

 

[N. Onymous]

Not to depress you guys, but I'm starting to think that Wii U Intelligent Systems title there've been whispers about was Pushmo World. : /

I'm starting to like the idea of that campaign Grimnir brought up, to let Nintendo know that Western players (Nintendo's apparent target audience for the past couple of years) care about Panel de Pon and all its excellent characters and that cute does in fact sell in the West. But Nintendo's already said they don't listen to letter-writing movements - it only "influences" their future behavior. So I guess we're all screwed.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well Pushmo is pretty cute too and it sold very well so I guess Ninty/Intelligent Systems already knows that those type of games can sell.

I guess the thing with Panel de Pon is that it might be perceived as "too girly" or something... But then again, we kinda have titles such as Cooking Mama going on and doing well so I think Nintendo doesn't really need to be that afraid of bringing Panel De Pon and it's fairy characters to the west nowadays... At least that's what I think.. :/

 

[Hong]

Well Pushmo is pretty cute too and it sold very well so I guess Ninty/Intelligent Systems already knows that those type of games can sell.

I guess the thing with Panel de Pon is that it might be perceived as "too girly" or something... But then again, we kinda have titles such as Cooking Mama going on and doing well so I think Nintendo doesn't really need to be that afraid of bringing Panel De Pon and it's fairy characters to the west nowadays... At least that's what I think.. :/

I still think it's perfect for the mobile market.

A lot of the hottest selling mobile games like Candy Crush Saga have glitter and all sorts "girly" things. Plus, those games usually have themed versions that run concurrently, so they could sell Panel de Pon and then sell an ugly version of it later if some people are too insecure.

 

[Curious Villager]

I guess they could do something like that for the eShop.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe she should have an anime and/or new game that has sort of a similar to the MLP, Lip having interesting personalities and the other elemental fairies.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I mean Panel de Pon was successful in the west, it just had Pokemon slapped all over it. I'm pretty sure even though some uneducated folks will call it a "Pokemon Puzzle League rip-off" I'm sure they would like it. When I was a little kid, I always wanted a sequel. Panel de Pon can give us that.

 

[N. Onymous]

Maybe she should have an anime and/or new game that has sort of a similar to the MLP, Lip having interesting personalities and the other elemental fairies.

I'd love to see this happen, but Nintendo has always seemed a little hesitant to license any of their properties that don't start with "Pok" and end in "mon" to TV companies. A Panel de Pon anime series that sells itself based on not just its cuteness but on its character depth, action, and comedy (maybe something like Pretty Cure, except not so much as to be derivative, or Paper Mario in animated form) would be fantastic, though!

 

[Marakatu]

Maybe she should have an anime and/or new game that has sort of a similar to the MLP, Lip having interesting personalities and the other elemental fairies.

Is there an alternate universe where this happenned? I'd like to live there.

 

[Burigu]

I mean Panel de Pon was successful in the west, it just had Pokemon slapped all over it. I'm pretty sure even though some uneducated folks will call it a "Pokemon Puzzle League rip-off" I'm sure they would like it. When I was a little kid, I always wanted a sequel. Panel de Pon can give us that.

Are you not forgetting Tetris Attack? which is the 1st panel de pon we got basically Lip game but with Yoshi characters in it.
That said at least Lip might appear as a trophy from Captain Rainbow if fat Little Mac has one no reason why Lip can't have one

 

[N. Onymous]

We've gotten every Panel de Pon game, but two of them were given reskins, one was a Pokemon game to begin with, and one had Lip's sole appearance scrubbed from international releases for no good reason. Zip in the way of international character appearances outside of Smash Bros., and it's looking likely to stay that way if nothing is done...