Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Finally, a Lip Thread. All we need now is a Stafy thread and thus have we completed the circle of retro+japanese characters we've always supported back then

There's already a Sta(r)fy topic. It's called The Literal Superstar by someone named Habanero.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

There's already a Sta(r)fy topic. It's called The Literal Superstar by someone named Habanero.

He found that up already as I've noticed. (-l.l-)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

He found that up already as I've noticed. (-l.l-)

Dang. I was so late.

But going back on topic, it would be interesting if she had pallet/color swaps based on all the other fairies and her mother.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

I think she should appear as an assist trophy.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think she should appear as an assist trophy.

I personally want her as a playable, and I'm positive she'll be given something more than just an assist trophy-appearance. (Check my arguments page for Lip)

But if she were to be an assist trophy, she better be deadly one, unlike that stupid case I had to experience with Starfy...

 

[Deleted member]

Lip would be a nice addition to see in Smash and I'm finding retro characters to be pretty appealing choices. She seems to be one of those left-field choices that feels just right and could appear as playable at any time. I'm not betting on her, but she's definitely worth a mention as a SSB4 canddiate.

 

[Kink-Link5]

There's already a Sta(r)fy topic. It's called The Literal Superstar by someone named Habanero.

Character threads would probably be easier to find if they listed the character at the start of the thread title instead of at the end.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

What's with this pointless post?

 

[Lord Viper]

A Panel De Pon thread and I wasn't invited?! T_T ★

Lip IMO is one of the most overdue characters to be in Smashbros in a while. However that would depend if Sakurai give any thought about the Panel De Pon characters. All and all, I think Nintendo should give more thought about a Panel De Pon sequel, I've been starving for more of Nintendo's best puzzle game for a while. ★

Once again, Lip will be my number one most wanted character in Smashbros. ★

Spoiler

I think that would be for Furil... ★

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Puyo Puyo-fan? And with that, a fan of Witch?! Why haven't we had you here before indeed? Can I glomp you?

You're pretty much in the same lines with me when it comes to Lip's support. (->^<>^<-) So I'm more than happy to have you here. (Odds me out why I haven't ever heard of you either...)

Do go read the OP for this thread, for there's some enlighting ideas and even an argument page where I think I've noticed something about Sakurai's actions regarding his opinions on Panel De Pon and the cameos. Maybe you'll be suprised happily from what you'll discover.

 

[Lord Viper]

I rarely post but I appear online from time to time, I forgot to look at the OP. ^_^; ★

I still do play both Panel De Pon and Puyo Puyo, I just wish both of them have more US support. )= ★

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Me too, I dunno but seems like these kind of puzzle games are pretty unpopular in us... (-l´l-);

But hope you keep appearing here, in case something happens!

 

[Kink-Link5]

Puyo Puyo is the best though.

Well, at least Super Puyo Puyo Tsu is; I haven't played any after that.

Panel De Pon always just made me angry that you can keep making moves in the middle of a combo and it still counts as a combo. Puyo Puyo though; that **** is the greatest colour matching game made.

Wouldn't it be just adorable if Lip hugged a Dr. Mario Virus for a victory pose?

 

[Hypercat-Z]

(Are you implying that "Lip is so loli that even Pedobear would lurk in her thread?")

Yup! Thought she would really deserve to be in the game, I think she's a dangerous character and she could compromise the exporting of the game outside japan.
You know that Panel De Pon became Tetris Attack and then Pokemon Puzzle Legue once exported outside Japan, don't you?
I think Nintendo will skip her again.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Yup! Thought she would really deserve to be in the game, I think she's a dangerous character and she could compromise the exporting of the game outside japan.
You know that Panel De Pon became Tetris Attack and then Pokemon Puzzle Legue once exported outside Japan, don't you?
I think Nintendo will skip her again.

Why in the heck then Zero Suit Samus can be in and Lip can't? ZSS's pretty much in the same lines, expect she seems to be already receiving loads of fanservicey pics. Lip in fact wouldn't ever get in the same lines as she can in fandom and fanart, because not everyone thinks she's an explicit-content-belonging loli. (In fact, how many do?)

And about SSB4's localisation halting because of Lip's inclusion is a silly argument which can't ever happen because they can't do so. Even Roll was in Tatsunoko VS Capcom yet that game was also ported overseas. Besides, Nintendo skipping SSB4's release for overseas because of Lip's inclusion would be the most controversial issue ever to happen in the industry's career, and seriously would hurt their income.

Lastly, Sakurai hasn't so far yet said that a character's design would be an obstacle to someone to be included (expect Sukapon who was hard to program). SSB isn't also same as Panel De Pon because those games had mainly the fairies in the cover (which lead to the whole dolled up installment-issues). Smash Bros though hosts lots of other characters in it's games, so there isn't need for one character to be taken out for the same reasons (seemingly being too girly? Peach says hi) that was done for Panel De Pon, because Lip's inclusion is nowhere able to hurt Smash Bros's sales despite her design.

It's nice to hear you think she deserves to be in, but I don't get why you have to actually push upon her negative sides so much which aren't really that big. Times have changed. And what applied to Panel De Pon can't apply to Smash Bros, because they're both two different games with their own characters and presentation. And in Smash Bros's case, the presentation of the game can't be given heavy modifications just to keep one character at bay or even go so far as to halt the localisation. Smash Bros just doesn't work that way.

 

[DMurr]

Well, references to Devil World were cut out of Melee but make it into brawl.. To back up the claim that times have changed. I highly doubt if they selected Lip to be playable that they'd cut her out of any other version. That would piss off way too many people... Missing out on an already made character.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Why in the heck then Zero Suit Samus can be in and Lip can't?

Because Zero suit Samus isn't a loli. That's why. Censorship has turned very sensible to those, due to the mainstream pedophobia of these days.
If Lip is going to be included in the game she will probaly turned older like Kid Icarus.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Because Zero suit Samus isn't a loli. That's why. Censorship has turned very sensible to those, due to the mainstream pedophobia of these days.
If Lip is going to be included in the game she will probaly turned older like Kid Icarus.

You mean pedophilia? (-l´l-);;

Anyway, you seriously haven't read my post above, have you? We have had already enough "lolis" in localised videogames without anything said about it since millenium. I mean, Warioware has about 4. (Kat, Ana, Ashley and Penny) And I already mentioned Roll being in Tatsunoko VS Capcom.

But here's something more interesting: Roll appears in both Marvel VS Capcom 1 (1998) and 2 (2000), and guess what happens in some of her attacks or animations? Her panties can be seen.
Yet despite that fact, these games were localised, and became pretty damn POPULAR. So you can localise games having little girls fighting against other people while even giving these kinds of "innuendos", without some kind of censorship going after it. (It's a fighting videogame.) And this hasn't changed at littlest bit to this day. If you're going mention Planet Puzzle League, she wasn't clipped out because she was a loli, but because her stage might've odded out the owners of the game because they haven't ever seen Lip before.)
So you're argument's pretty invalid.

And once more, Lip's inclusion in her original form (that is, without redesigns and all) isn't able to hurt the sales Smash Bros 4 or draw in censorship controversies, because it's Smash Bros we're talking about here, a game that can pretty much sell very well without getting unnecessary modifications to cater at a certain audience. Besides, knowing Nintendo, they wouldn't really make Lip having much innuendos as Roll but could still keep her original appearance intact.

Lastly, when was character variety bad? And when were lolis "forbidden" as you're putting it in your sentences? Are you just really biased against Lip's design or something? It's not really that bad as you think. I myself just support Lip for a sake of puzzle representation and what her character and powers can bring in the game. And we have had enough of stuff referencing to her, so it's finally time to take a next step and let her be featured in fully-rendered 3D. And as a playable character.

I don't want to go on anymore with this because it's already quite obvious that Lip's little girl-like appearance isn't an obstacle for her to be in Smash, for many, many reasons listed in my last posts. And still hearing from you that her inclusion in her original appearace would be even enough to threaten Smash Bros's localisation. Can I even take you seriously there?

 

[N. Onymous]

To everyone using the "loli" arguement: Nana.

Lip's a personal favorite of mine and I'm hoping to see her in the SSB4 roster.

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure if this means anything, but I was looking through Brawl's music files, and saw there was a specific section for "Retro" music and "Modern" music from Nintendo series, and Lip's Theme is listed as "Modern".
So yeah, she doesn't seem to be a "Retro" rep after all.

EDIT: Although, Flat Zone 2 is listed as "Modern" as well.
I guess that probably has to do with the Game & Watch Gallery series as well as the song being a Smash original.

 

[N. Onymous]

My guess is that that's because the Puzzle League/PdP series has had an installment in the last decade.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Another theory NoA might have something against the Panel de Pon cast is that they find them way too "cutesy" and "diabetic." And they can't make her look "hardcore" like that Pink Blob.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Another theory NoA might have something against the Panel de Pon cast is that they find them way too "cutesy" and "diabetic." And they can't make her look "hardcore" like that Pink Blob.

I still laugh upon this a lot. Cutesy and diabetic? Twinkle Star Sprites was EVEN MORE of cutesy and diabetic if compared to Panel De Pon, yet it was shipped overseas for Neo Geo-consoles...

I know we still get some "American Kirby is hardcore"-covers to some games, but the times have changed a LOT. Usually the gameplay sells, not the characters- so why can't they emphasize on the gameplay?

I remember being turned off by how Twinkle Star Sprites looked like in means of a representation but later on the gameplay hooked me in so bad, I didn't even care anymore.
Kinda showed me that if the gameplay's very, very good enough, the characters don't really matter (okay, pretty evident in SMB, but we're talking about pretty cutesy'n'diabetic
Besides, it's bit creepy that gaming industry managed to accept this to America:

[COLLAPSE="Otomedius Excellent by Konami"]

[/COLLAPSE]

But they can't accept this:

[COLLAPSE="Panel De Pon"]

[/COLLAPSE]

Maybe they think that loli stuff is more dangerous than the risque stuff? I dunno. Or they think it's harder to handle cutesy stuff. (-l´l-);

 

[N. Onymous]

I honestly don't see why anyone over on this side of the planet would have a problem with Lip's character design, considering there's absolutely nothing sexual about it...

 

[Deleted member]

Little flower fairy upskirts wouldn't bother me; I've grown up with 12 year old hedgehog girl upskirts, 6 year old rabbit girl upskirts, and bubbly princess upskirts (granted, not a child, but still), and they didn't bother me at all.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

You mean pedophilia? (-l´l-);;

Nope! I meant such pedophobia. Intended as "fear for pedophilia".
Your points are all valid, on a rational point of view, but american censorship is going nuts this lately, isn't it?

 

[N. Onymous]

"Pedophobia", unless I'm mistaken, means fear of children. There's not really a word for what you're looking for, but I'd go with "Pedophilophobia". (Which, granted, is much harder to say.)

Of note is that over in Japan (at least), panty shots are sometimes used in a non-sexual manner with young girls, to show their innocence and lack of sexuality - presumably, this is why Roll got so many of them in the MvC series. Considering that Lip is small, innocent, very cute, and wearing a skirt, we could probably expect a few panty shots out of her - though it probably won't be too much of a problem, considering that Alice in Wonderland (an American film, even!), Kiki's Delivery Service, and Ponyo among other films have featured pantyshots from girls of a similarly young age and no one (at least, no one that I've heard of) in the Western world has complained about those.

 

[N. Onymous]

Another theory NoA might have something against the Panel de Pon cast is that they find them way too "cutesy" and "diabetic." And they can't make her look "hardcore" like that Pink Blob.

You say that like it'd stop them from trying.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Just put her in some bloomers. Problem solved and cuteness added.

 

[N. Onymous]

On another note: considering the Fire Emblem characters - except Ike - all spoke in Japanese due to their games never being released in America, would Lip's (spoken) dialogue remain in Japanese in the international releases of Sm4sh as well?

 

[jigglover]

What are nintendo going to tell the fans if they include her. This is lip. She is the real star of tetris attack and Pokemon Puzzle league. She is all over Japan, but we think that she is too girly to get outside of it so we added Yoshi and Pikachu instead of her. Now Japan has completely ignored the USA and Europe and added Lip anyway, we don't like it and we ask you not to use Lip because Japan would win. Something along those lines?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

What are nintendo going to tell the fans if they include her. This is lip. She is the real star of tetris attack and Pokemon Puzzle league. She is all over Japan, but we think that she is too girly to get outside of it so we added Yoshi and Pikachu instead of her. Now Japan has completely ignored the USA and Europe and added Lip anyway, we don't like it and we ask you not to use Lip because Japan would win. Something along those lines?

Uuh... can you elaborate you question a bit more? I sorta lost what you're trying to get at.

 

[N3ON]

What are nintendo going to tell the fans if they include her. This is lip. She is the real star of tetris attack and Pokemon Puzzle league. She is all over Japan, but we think that she is too girly to get outside of it so we added Yoshi and Pikachu instead of her. Now Japan has completely ignored the USA and Europe and added Lip anyway, we don't like it and we ask you not to use Lip because Japan would win. Something along those lines?

It wasn't the fans that didn't want Lip (although honestly it probably sold better with Yoshi and Pokemon than it would've with Lip), it was the NOA and NOE's executive decision to re-brand the game due to Sega's smear campaign against Nintendo at the time. The fans never got a chance to decide what they wanted, though Nintendo knew they couldn't go wrong with already established popular characters. Here, this article (not sure if it's been posted yet, but whatever) sums it up pretty well.
http://www.nintendojo.com/features/editorials/of-pixies-and-prejudice

And I doubt the majority of Americans and Europeans will care if Lip is added to Smash, it's not like they actively dislike her, few will even know who she is. Plus the "too-girly" Sega smear campaign that prevented Lip in the first place is long over. And since when does Japan win when Japanese-only characters are included in Smash? Marth and Roy were included in Melee, and the real winners there was everybody outside Japan, they got the Fire Emblem series because of that.

 

[Kink-Link5]

What are nintendo going to tell the fans if they include her.

"You're welcome" would be a good start.

 

[N. Onymous]

Uuh... can you elaborate you question a bit more? I sorta lost what you're trying to get at.

He thinks NoA doesn't like Lip and doesn't want her to be in the game. In all likelihood, Nintendo likes her and wants to bring her over (why would they hate their own character, after all?), they just haven't had a chance to yet - having to cut her from Planet Puzzle League probably because no one would know who she was, or why unlocking her stage was so special..

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

He thinks NoA doesn't like Lip and doesn't want her to be in the game. In all likelihood, Nintendo likes her and wants to bring her over (why would they hate their own character, after all?), they just haven't had a chance to yet - having to cut her from Planet Puzzle League probably because no one would know who she was, or why unlocking her stage was so special..

Things change in time. I remember Puyo Puyo getting same treatment as PDP but later on enough that one was also reversed back with Puyo Pop for GBA and Puyo Pop Fever localised for like, every console out there. (-l~l-);
So if SEGA could bury their censors, then why not Nintendo? (On the other hand we haven't seen a new Puyo Puyo-game localised since then...)

 

[Kink-Link5]

It's a shame too. Puyo Puyo is probably the best vs puzzle game ever.

 

[N. Onymous]

The editing of Puyo Puyo actually seems to me like a decision Compile made themselves. Why else would two different (and opposing!) companies execute the same idea on the same game at around the same time?

Later PP games being released in unedited form is exactly why I'm hopeful about Lip getting a legit Western appearance sometime in the near future.

 

[N. Onymous]

On a related note, I stopped by the GameFAQs Sm4sh forums on a whim, and... well. The level of anti-Lip sentiments I found from the people there could probably be described as unprecedented. There were several supporters, which was nice to see - but then I found a topic that was pretty much beaten into the ground by Lip-haters parroting the exact same "Too obscure!"/"Pedo bait!" arguments we've all seen before.

It was kind of heartbreaking, honestly.