Psuedo Cutterside **VIdeo Added** "Tier list added"

[~Gonzo~]

Video Added http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zmtNGbfrz8

We all know how strong Kirby's Final Cutter spike is. It can spike G&W at 0 from the edge if u edgehog right after. The problem with this move is the fact of killing urself, missing and killing urself or missing altogether and dieing.

However how many people have been hit while using their final cutter. Basically lets say Ike was using his Bup, and i Final cutter down on him. I spike him but his Bup obviously knocks me out of mine. What about MK, if u can predict MK's shuttle loop then u will spike him and get knocked out of Final Cutter. Same with G&W. Wolf, Fox and falco side and up B moves. As you can see there are quite a number of characters u can do this against. Characters who ledge camp get punished by this. Marths Bup, when hes using Bup come down on him but dont grab the edge, instead go straight down like you would try and double suicide. Instead u'll get hit by his Bup and u will get to Bup again and jump if u had any left.

This isn't as hard or dangerous as it sounds just needs some practice and above avg prediction.

Tier List of characters that can't be spiked by Dair or are hard to spike w/ Dair but can be more easily spiked by Final Cutter
Marth Bup
DK Bup
Bowser Bup
Link Bup
TL Bup Dair is better IMO
Wolf Bup
MK Bup and SideB
Luigi Bup and Tornado (tornado is mad difficult)
Mario Bup
Peach Bup
Kirby Bup
Diddy K Bup

(thats all i can think of so far, let me know if u find any others)

 

[A1lion835]

Yea...this happens a lot to me. They're like "I'm edgehogging you what now" and then I stick a giant sword in their face and spike them. Or, as you said, a lot of people's recoveries hit you out of it and they get spiked.

 

[~Gonzo~]

Thoughts for best recoveries to gimp with Bup, does anyone know if u can gimp G&W with final cutter while he's in his Bup?

 

[CaliburChamp]

This sounds super risky, especially since it takes a long time for final cutter to start, which makes it a predictable move. I don't see it working on pros, maybe sometimes on mediocre or worse players.

 

[A1lion835]

I wouldn't try vs G&W b/c of his invincibility. Um...people you haven't said...um...

 

[~Gonzo~]

not necessarily, Marth for example has no option but to aim for the edge more or less, Kirby just hat to put himself in marths path so that if Marth didnt Bup that Kirby still hits him. This way marth has no choice but Bup into Kirby recovering ur available jumps and Bup. If he airdodges then ur still as far ahead as u were b4.

 

[choice_brawler]

not necessarily, Marth for example has no option but to aim for the edge more or less, Kirby just hat to put himself in marths path so that if Marth didnt Bup that Kirby still hits him. This way marth has no choice but Bup into Kirby recovering ur available jumps and Bup. If he airdodges then ur still as far ahead as u were b4.

Nah if he air dodges while trying to recover near the edge, he'll probably die. Its super risky like CaliburChamp said though. I've spiked people while they were on stage and i did a retreating final cutter onto the edge. That may have been bad DI though. They were sent off to the right (i was grabbing the right ledge) and yea they didnt come back. I'll mess around with this on my free time, though seriously you're gonna need to know the timing like the back of your hand since the spiking part of the final cutter takes so long to occur.

 

[~Gonzo~]

thats what i was saying, if he airdodges and u both die its the same difference as hitting him.

 

[GPEternity]

only then its not a spike but a kirbycide.

 

[~Gonzo~]

thats fine, the intention is to spike if u get a double suicide then u dont lose anything.

Its win or break even. which are both fine against Marth

 

[A1lion835]

Speaking of fc... I have the most failing fc ever.

I attempted to do a retreating fc onto the ledge behind me. As I went up, I hit the front of my opponents shield (they were around the same place as I was), which made them edgehog me.

 

[~Gonzo~]

lol, A1 thats the saddest yet funniest comment ever. i cried and got a hernia at the same time

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I love doing this move. It catches a lot of people I Brawl off gard. This move and the Final Cuttercide. =D ☆

 

[Asdioh]

You're talking about Final Cutter from offstage, onto the ledge, while your opponent is trying to recover, correct?

Someone should get some videos of doing this on various characters...just get a friend and tell him to spam his Up B onto the ledge, and practice it and show what it looks like.

Because to be honest, I see this being increeeeedibly situational, because it's just so slow and risky. I've Final Cutter spiked before, but usually because of wifi lag and luck..most of the time, I just get edgehogged, since FC is one of the easiest recoveries in the game to edgehog.

 

[A1lion835]

lol, A1 thats the saddest yet funniest comment ever. i cried and got a hernia at the same time

I would've actually put it in a vid, but the match was too long.

Thanks for your sympathy...

This is sort of like that thing with marth in melee (up-b recover>hit shielding opponent>DEATH).

 

[~Gonzo~]

You're talking about Final Cutter from offstage, onto the ledge, while your opponent is trying to recover, correct?

Someone should get some videos of doing this on various characters...just get a friend and tell him to spam his Up B onto the ledge, and practice it and show what it looks like.

Because to be honest, I see this being increeeeedibly situational, because it's just so slow and risky. I've Final Cutter spiked before, but usually because of wifi lag and luck..most of the time, I just get edgehogged, since FC is one of the easiest recoveries in the game to edgehog.

no i mean straight down with no edge, like the kind that if u miss say goodbye

lets say i KNOW ur gonna Uair with Kirby to recover, i'll Final cutter down right towards u and get hit by ur Uair which will hit me out of my FInal cutter and spike u to ur death

 

[Asdioh]

Thanks for your sympathy...

You'll get no sympathy from Kirby.


(Final Cutter spikes included)


edit: with no edge, huh?

Does it spike during any part of the downward animation? It always seemed to me that it spiked right after the peak of the jump, and epic failed to hit anyone afterward, on the way down.

 

[~Gonzo~]

i just realized ur kirby is holding A1 sauce! WTF???? and Asdioh, imagine Toon Link using his upB, obviously its easy to tell when TL will upB so u Final cutter down on top of him and he'll knock u out of FInal cutter which will restore available jumps and another final cutter and u'll spike him.

 

[choice_brawler]

Final cutter-ciding. Kirby just keeps finding new ways to suicide it seems, yet he seems like such a happy character.

 

[A1lion835]

Asdioh! I get enough people talking about steak sauce! Take it down!

 

[Asdioh]

Asdioh! I get enough people talking about steak sauce! Take it down!

Nobody answered my question...does Final Cutter spike during ANY part of its descent? I'm assuming it does, by the Toon Link example. You're going to need ridiculous timing (and be in the perfect position) to hit him out of Up B right at the peak of FC.

 

[~Gonzo~]

its not that hard, and any part of the descent,

i'm gonna put some vids up later

 

[Asdioh]

And...it is a spike, right? I'm used to Melee right now, where you can meteor-cancel spikes, which is hella fun (and I usually do it just by accident, and I'm like, sweet)

But for FC, you go down far enough that you most likely won't survive?

If that's the case, then this is not only flashy, but it IS useful. I'm going to have to practice this, because not only is it my goal to win, but to win while having fun, and with style. Thus why I don't use lame characters like Meta Knight ^_^

"Metaknight" and "style" don't go together.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Any situation where this works D-air works as well, except when recovering using a backwards up-B.

 

[choice_brawler]

And...it is a spike, right? I'm used to Melee right now, where you can meteor-cancel spikes, which is hella fun (and I usually do it just by accident, and I'm like, sweet)

You can meteor-cancel meteor smashes in brawl just as you can in melee. Spikes cant be meteor-cancelled. Like if you use marth's dair on someone in melee they cant meteor-cancel it, unless they're playing the PAL version.

 

[A1lion835]

Although, you can't meteor cancel .0000000000000000001 seconds after you got hit, like in melee. I think you can do it after about half the fall...

 

[~Gonzo~]

Any situation where this works D-air works as well, except when recovering using a backwards up-B.

Yes but have u ever Dair right into Ikes Bup, or Metaknights Bup, or Marths Bup, i dont think so.

This can spike all those characters.

 

[platiepoos]

Let's see. Thinking about what you said, I've named a few characters I think this might work on. (NO TESTING INCLUDED. This is off the top of my head.)

-Diddy Kong (charged)
-Donkey Kong (Is the knockback strong enough?)
-Falco/Fox/Wolf(?) (High %)
-Ike
-Link/TLink
-Lucas/Ness
-Marth
-Meat Knight
-Peach (Maybe the final hitbox)
-Charizard
That's about all I can think of. (No Snake DX) Feel free to edit this list, since I didn't test any of it.
Edit: My post count is 2, long time lurker, first time poster.

 

[~Gonzo~]

Lucas no, ness maybe, Charizard yes, peach yes, diddy kong i dont think so, Metaknight i already showed in the vid as i did wolf, Fox and Falco maybe but u might as well Dair them.

 

[lockdown7]

This is good stuff gonzo. I will attampt to implement it in some friendlies this saturday at a tourny I got coming up. Hopefully I will catch some on video so i can show it in action.

 

[Asdioh]

Pure sex.

I can't really say much else about it. My question of "does Final Cutter spike at any point during the descent" has been answered by that video.

the music choice = lolwut

You know, I see this being most useful against Meta Knight, after watching that and thinking about it. It's hard to hit him with Dair out of Shuttle Loop, and even if you do, he has so many jump and his recovery is so good that it usually won't help. But this is practically a guaranteed death, depending on how far down he is.

So is Final Cutter officially a "spike" or a "meteor smash?"

As for Snake...I noticed the downward part of FC only did 2%, and I heard that to knock Snake out of his Cypher, you need to do a certain amount of damage in a single hit. However, sometimes it seemed to me that certain moves hit him out of Cypher, even if they didn't do much %. Also, his Cypher will hit you after you FC him, so you will get your jumps back. It's worth a test!

 

[CaliburChamp]

Pure sex.

I can't really say much else about it. My question of "does Final Cutter spike at any point during the descent" has been answered by that video.

the music choice = lolwut

You know, I see this being most useful against Meta Knight, after watching that and thinking about it. It's hard to hit him with Dair out of Shuttle Loop, and even if you do, he has so many jump and his recovery is so good that it usually won't help. But this is practically a guaranteed death, depending on how far down he is.

So is Final Cutter officially a "spike" or a "meteor smash?"

As for Snake...I noticed the downward part of FC only did 2%, and I heard that to knock Snake out of his Cypher, you need to do a certain amount of damage in a single hit. However, sometimes it seemed to me that certain moves hit him out of Cypher, even if they didn't do much %. Also, his Cypher will hit you after you FC him, so you will get your jumps back. It's worth a test!

I already tested that with Snake. The spiking part of FC only does 4% damage and doesn't knock him out of cypher. A move has to deal 7% or more damage to knock snake out of cypher, this doesn't count for weak multi hit moves. It's stupid that Snake has super armor frames on his Up+B, he is good enough, otherwise it would work on Snake.

This may also work on Mario, and maybe Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Squirtle, Charizard, Link, Toon Link, Ganon? C. Falcon? G&W? Kirby? Marth, Ike, and Metaknight.

 

[Asdioh]

Probably Mario and Luigi. And Peach...and Bowser, and Squirtle, and Charizard, and Link, and Toon Link, NOT Ganondorf or Falcon I'm sure.

Maybe G&W, he tends to be a ***** with his lame invincibility frames.

I see this being most useful on Marth, Ike, and Metaknight.

Most of the others that were mentioned, you can easily gimp them by normal means.

 

[A1lion835]

I'll make this my avi if you make it look like Kirby's holding the bottle like he is the sword (you can't see his sword-hand in that pic).

On topic...I think ganon would work, but only if you hit him when he does that uppercut-thing at the end of the animation.

 

[GPEternity]

at the top of ganon's upB he does an uppercut instead of a grab so that would work, but this only works if you both hit eachother, so its possible to mess this up and get hit without spiking if kirby is too vertically aligned and they hit him first right? notably with ike if your timing is bad or he upB's a little early his sword will hit you while hes still below it and he recovers safely.

 

[ESOJOSE]

yeah, i tried against Luigi tornado recovery, its to hard to be practical, and Mario might cape u lol. Haven't tried on G&W though

 

[Asdioh]

The thing about Ganondorf, and characters like that, is that it's much easier and more sensible to go for Dair or Bair >_>

On MK/Marth, however, their priority makes it so that Final Cutter could do a better job. Someone should make a "tier list" of characters that are worth FC spiking

MK/Marth would be high up there, with possibly Ike.

What about Ice Climbers? XD both their Side and Up Bs

My GIMP skillz are 222 good

 

[~Gonzo~]

I'm pretty sure IC sideB can b FCS but i'm noy so sure about their upB, as Popo (the guy) can't hit u and nana gets superarmor

 

[SheerMadness]

Sorry but this doesn' seem practical at all. If you miss you're dead and its way too easy for your opponent to switch up his recovery timing every time.

Also most of the chars this works on you can just stone and not be in danger of killing yourself.

 

[T-nuts]

Sorry but this doesn' seem practical at all. If you miss you're dead and its way too easy for your opponent to switch up his recovery timing every time.

Also most of the chars this works on you can just stone and not be in danger of killing yourself.

I really hate to say this because it's a cool discovery and all, but I agree with sheer. they can vary the timing of their recovery, they can airdodge, they can just do nothing and take the hit and then you both die. Also you have to start your up b before they do, because you have to hit them with the down swing...which gives them time to react.