Proposal for a More Fair Melee Stage Ruleset

[Byron 1337]

the question is whether the advantage marth gains on yoshi's story is necessarily surpassed by that which, say, peach gains on brinstar, and I (and many players would agree) don't think that is the case

you can't disprove the example i gave so you're choosing a different one? it doesn't work that way

if you don't think brinstar is so nasty, do you think it'd be acceptable if we added that one to random?

... I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that on other stages characters gain a way bigger advantage. I wasn't saying anything about Brinstar. What I was saying is that I think fox has a bigger advantage on Green Greens than Marth does on Yoshi's.

lawl

 

[pockyD]

so you assert that green greens+fox is more broken than yoshi's story+marth (i agree)

that doesn't relate to what i asked about brinstar+peach though

 

[Byron 1337]

Oh, I thought you were just using that as a general example. I agree with the Peach/Brinstar business though.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Pertaining to the OP:

I don't see...much wrong with the list of stages. I guess it's not too horrid of a ruleset. It's different, but it could work.

I don't agree with getting two bans, however. What if a person gets BOTH of their best stages on that list, banned? In neutral and non?

Might I propose one ban. However, if the player who gets to choose decides to go random, the other player gets one random strike as well.

Keeping the rest of the rules the same, I don't see how this would affect your presented ruleset drastically. However, I think having two bans is giving TOO much power.

Scenario: Person wins the first round. the second...they only have two stages to worry about. Corneria and FD. Guess what two they're gonna ban? The other player is screwed. There should be something to fear on a cp.

Other than that, Mr. JFox...good stuff.

 

[pockyD]

well you're not simply 'screwed' just because you're only capable of winning on 2 stages out of 10

 

[Rain(ame)]

okay, i worded that wrong. your strong stages. I mean nobody's saying you CAN'T win on any other stages. If you have two STRONG stages that you KNOW you'll get that win on, and they BOTH get banned. you're screwed in the sense that your chances of evening up the match went down. Not down the toilet, but they might have gone down significantly enough.

Mental edge means a lot. If you're confident that if one gets banned the other may still exist, you still have that mental edge. When both of your strong stages are gone...you may not be as confident as you once were.

 

[pockyD]

if it's a guaranteed win then it's not a fair stage and shouldn't be allowed at all

in general it's just your two "strongest" stages

 

[Rain(ame)]

Pocky...please stop trying to look for something that isn't there. If you know for a fact you'd beat a person on a stage...possibly due to the fact that you practice most on it, etc, you're going to play it. All I'm saying is that most people have a strong stage. It varies from person to person. Some people have a backup incase it gets banned. With two bans...your backup is gone.

If you give more limits to what can be done...then it may infact take away from the excitement and hype.

I know someone's going to say: "Have more backups?" but seriously...I believe two bans is too much.

 

[JFox]

Ame- you only get to ban one counterpick stage. your other ban is used on one of the 5 "neutral stages"

"pockyD- explain why BF is marth's second worst neutral stage"

Sure thing pockyD.

Now i wouldnt say its his second worst stage in any matchup, but it is in a lot of the high tier ones.

First of all, this is falco's and sheik's playground in every matchup, especially vs marth. This is their counterpick vs marth most of the time if u watch a pro v pro matchup. PC Chris used to say his favorite stage to take marth to when he played falco was Battlefield. The platforms are perfect for comboing.

In addition, Marth typically recovers from very low under the ledge to sweetspot. With a wall u can be quite tricky with stalling your recovery, but when u have no wall like on BF, his recovery becomes much more predictable and easier to edgegaurd.

I would say the only stage marth dislikes more might be DL and Stadium. I guess that would make Battlefield his third worst, not second. My bad. But otherwise, marth loves FoD simply cuz his opponents dislike it. Marth loves Yoshi's cuz he controls the stage so well. Marth loves FD for chaingrabs.

 

[pockyD]

The proposal is for a "more fair" stage set; the more 'extreme' stages that can be eliminated (directly correlated to how many bans each player gets), the closer the ultimately chosen stage will be to the median "fair" stage

 

[Eggm]

True story. I once took m2k to r5 in finals at some philly tournament simply cause I cped bf twice and won both times and on the other stages got *****. Needless to say he's been banning bf on me ever since. Its a terrible stage vs falco, and vs fox IMO. I can't comment on other matchups cause I don't play the characters, but vs fox/falco its def his 2nd worse neutral. PS being the worst. DL is better for marth than bf vs an experienced fox/falco.

 

[Rain(ame)]

JFox- I understand that, but in my example, I used a neutral and a non-neutral. (Choosing two at random from M2K's more impressive wins.) Corneria and FD.

I was saying what if you had a strong stage on neutral and one on non? Those can both be banned. I guess it IS a bit situational, but it's not unrealistic by far, either.

Like i said, I do like the ruleset for the most part. The two bans just sits a bit disconcerting. Um...not in a strong hate kind of way either. It was more of a proposal.

 

[Byron 1337]

I was saying what if you had a strong stage on neutral and one on non? Those can both be banned. I guess it IS a bit situational, but it's not unrealistic by far, either.

Also, two bans can almost shut down certain characters counterpicks. If you know you are paying a Puff main you would just ban Dreamland and Brinstar. (There's a better example out there, I'm just not going to waste time thinking about it now)

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Dreamland is def not better for Marth Eggm. Try maining Marth and having to chase spacies forever. The best your looking at is double jump up airs all day. And then with Falco he can limit you at that with his lasers. Marth can control alot more space on BF and although he cnt sweetspot the same goes for spacies bcuz they cnt ride the wall so if there in a position like directly below the ledge they have to choice but to go straight up. In which case right into a counter.

Other stages they can get that ridiculous angle and just graze your toes and nothing happens. And teching for them is alot harder there. Not to mention DL platforms are mad high

 

[Virusbluemage]

My goodness enough with the banning of stages. We've taken away from the game because stage banning. Every character is different so obviously their going to have advantage on a particular stage and disadvantages on other stages, if the advantage that character has doesn't make the game broken then let the stage be legal.

 

[Eggm]

Dreamland is def not better for Marth Eggm. Try maining Marth and having to chase spacies forever. The best your looking at is double jump up airs all day. And then with Falco he can limit you at that with his lasers. Marth can control alot more space on BF and although he cnt sweetspot the same goes for spacies bcuz they cnt ride the wall so if there in a position like directly below the ledge they have to choice but to go straight up. In which case right into a counter.

Other stages they can get that ridiculous angle and just graze your toes and nothing happens. And teching for them is alot harder there. Not to mention DL platforms are mad high

Well, from my personal experience i'd rather fight your or m2k (the only marths that matter) on Battlefield than DL anyday. If a marth is a real thorough edge guarder you pretty much have no chance to make it back on any stage at least on battlefield marth has a significant chance not to make it back as well. Thats the way I see it anyway. Much easier to do long combos with the ways platforms are setup to marth on bf also. Falco can also get some shine shine kills off the top or shine up air kills at reasonable percents. I don't know its close. Def if PS were banned and I already used up BF I'd go DL tho lol.

 

[Devil Ray]

battlefield is good for falco, but i wouldn't say it's that good for fox. it's still a fairly neutral stage tho. i wouldn't say it's really suited for any single character.

if ppl are going to do more bans, then it should only involve counter-pick stages. i don't see how banning more neutrals is better.

 

[kupo15]

Corneria would be cool if you could only fight on the roof and not the loading bay. Hate everything to the right of the fin.

 

[JFox]

Yea kupo i totally agree.

Devil ray, no one is suggesting banning any of the neutrals.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

If it ain't broke

Affirmative.

 

[Virusbluemage]

I think they should make Big Blue legal again. It's banned because it's the order the cars appear is random, but stages like Cornerian, Zebes, Green Greens and even Dream Land(a neutral stage) have random elements, therefore it's a bull**** reason to ban the stage.

 

[Strong Badam]

um I think it's banned because it encourages camping and is an overall bad stage in general.

 

[Kantō]

i guess my opponents would like the idea of FD being a CP. haha

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Do you really want to play on big blue, though? In tournament?

 

[Ballistics]

JFox the beauty of this game is that the rules are very loose, host a tournament and run it the way you see fit for the stages, if people like it, keep at it and then post vids and explain the way you ran it

you don't need our approval

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

i use yoshi's story as my counterpick with fox.

even against marths

 

[DJRome]

i think neutrals should be:

battlefield, fountain of dreams, final, and pokemon

cp-pokemon, dreamland, yoshis, brinstar, corneria, dk64, and rainbow cruise

player cannot reset random neutral. 1 ban of cp stages per player.

 

[Stratford]

I'm not sure I like FD being CP.

 

[DJRome]

well, it's like ys in that it is really gay for a lot of characters such as fox, falco, & marth (vs certain chars) i think the neutrals in my list are more or less the only true neutrals